Food Stamps

DEFTLEFTHAND · 24-11-2012 12:37AM #1

Could a food stamp system work in Ireland? Lets say a government debit card programme like whats used in other countries, a system like this could enable us to lower social welfare costs. With rent allowance already in place it means that the state will provide a person or family with the basic necessities only.

My idea for this comes from a documentary I was watching. It's certainly a tough measure but do you think that it's fair or not?

EoghanIRL · 24-11-2012 12:39AM

No

phasers · 24-11-2012 12:40AM

What do you class as basic necessities? How much would this system cost to set up? I think savings would be minimal when all this is considered. It may also artificially raise the price of food, like rent allowance does with rent.

This wouldn't work in Ireland anyway, people would just work out some sort of trade system where someone swaps the amount on the card for a lower cash value.

keith16 · 24-11-2012 12:40AM

Ireland: Food stamp economy.

Doesn't have a good ring to it, does it?

Man007 · 24-11-2012 12:41AM

Yes definitely it would make sure people on welfare have necessities but cut out any spend on luxuries which people on welfare should not be entitled to.

Esoteric_ · 24-11-2012 12:41AM

Yay, another welfare thread.

El Weirdo · 24-11-2012 12:42AM

No.

Thin end of the wedge, tbh.

Esoteric_ · 24-11-2012 12:43AM

Man007 wrote: »

Yes definitely it would make sure people on welfare have necessities but cut out any spend on luxuries which people on welfare should not be entitled to.

My welfare is money that I have paid into the tax system since I was 15 and never claimed until recently. Fúck right off if you think you have the right to judge what it should be spent on.

EoghanIRL · 24-11-2012 12:44AM

My idea : a socaial welfare type card. It can't be used to buy alcohol or fags , only the necessities . That word sort some of the problem

BASHIR · 24-11-2012 12:44AM

No, preserves poverty. I want to save 10 euro a week from my dole to get the train to dublin/buy new suit/put petrol in my car for a job interview. Cant now cause I only get food stamps and rent paid. Who pays my esb water charge household hrge mortgage. My local shop doesnt accept new scheme, does it include the yeast free bread. So many factors make it unfair.

LETHAL LADY · 24-11-2012 12:46AM

Bring back butter vouchers, in my hometown you could trade them for everything.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 24-11-2012 12:47AM

It wouldn't mean a total cut on welfare received it would just mean a reduction, obviously it would have to be sensitive to certain individuals circumstances.

wendell borton · 24-11-2012 12:47AM

Let them eat cheese.:rolleyes:

BASHIR · 24-11-2012 12:50AM

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

Bring back butter vouchers, in my hometown you could trade them for everything.

How many butter vouchers was it to get the car fixed

Run_to_da_hills · 24-11-2012 12:54AM

If food stamps were to be introduced into Ireland it would probably be some kind of a smart card. The Government would be able to dictate to you what you could buy and not buy.

coolhull · 24-11-2012 12:54AM

Man007 wrote: »

Yes definitely it would make sure people on welfare have necessities but cut out any spend on luxuries which people on welfare should not be entitled to.

You mean luxuries like TV, Christmas presents for kids, that sort of thing?

Yes, if you've been laid off work, you shouldn't be entitled to anything other than basic foodstuff

Tombi! · 24-11-2012 12:57AM

Let's see: we have a black market for drugs, smokes, PPS numbers.

I can see food stamps being added to that.

zenno · 24-11-2012 12:58AM

wendell borton wrote: »

Let them eat cheese.:rolleyes:

I used to hate mice but now i can see what the poor little feller has to go through living on cheese. I have more respect now for mice than some people here. Chedder cheese sambo/chedder cheese toasted sambo/chedder melted on cornflakes/chedder melted on my finger, yep my middle finger. noooooo more cheese i tells ye, enough of the cheese.

coolhull · 24-11-2012 12:59AM

EoghanIRL wrote: »

My idea : a socaial welfare type card. It can't be used to buy alcohol or fags , only the necessities . That word sort some of the problem

Aaah, another flog 'em- cos -they- lost -their- jobs type. You must work in the Public Service..

LETHAL LADY · 24-11-2012 12:59AM

BASHIR wrote: »

How many butter vouchers was it to get the car fixed

Dunno bout that, but according to local rumours there was a lady of the night who used to perform favours for butter vouchers in order to feed her drink habit.
As far as I recall their sole purpose was for blocks of Irish butter, but the shop I worked in used to accept them for anything including fags and drink and there was no limit to how many a person could trade against a purchase.

Pottler · 24-11-2012 01:00AM

I'm one of those self employed mugs, there's lots of us. If I'm out of work I won't get postal stamps, let alone food stamps. One guy working for me now had 45 employees, lost his business, the employees all get the dole, he was entitled to SFA and had to survive as best he could. I give a sh1t what the dole is, is worth or what form it takes, I know for a fact I won't get it if I stumble, I'll just get hit with more tax.

zenno · 24-11-2012 01:04AM

Pottler wrote: »

I'm one of those self employed mugs, there's lots of us. If I'm out of work I won't get postal stamps, let alone food stamps. One guy working for me now had 45 employees, lost his business, the employees all get the dole, he was entitled to SFA and had to survive as best he could. I give a sh1t what the dole is, is worth or what form it takes, I know for a fact I won't get it if I stumble, I'll just get hit with more tax.

Well this is where it all has to change on a major scale. You put something into the economy and try your best and then you are not entitled to anything on social welfare. This is just way out of order and i still cannot understand why some self-employed people that lost their business cannot get social backing, it does begger belief. We have a very strange social system we have here that's for sure.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 24-11-2012 01:05AM

Pottler wrote: »

I'm one of those self employed mugs, there's lots of us. If I'm out of work I won't get postal stamps, let alone food stamps. One guy working for me now had 45 employees, lost his business, the employees all get the dole, he was entitled to SFA and had to survive as best he could. I give a sh1t what the dole is, is worth or what form it takes, I know for a fact I won't get it if I stumble, I'll just get hit with more tax.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, I know what you're saying. I have a business with my father and we're shaky at the moment. We won't be entitled to any assistance if it goes under.

Ditchfinder · 24-11-2012 01:08AM

wendell borton wrote: »

Let them eat cheese.:rolleyes:

EoghanIRL wrote: »

My idea : a socaial welfare type card. It can't be used to buy alcohol or fags , only the necessities . That word sort some of the problem

The above would take care a lot of the waste. On a day off recently, I asked the OH is it usual to have people walking around with/waiting at Bus Stops with large amounts of beer (boxes of Bud* etc.).

OH informed me that it was the first Tuesday of the month and yes it is usual on this day to see such carry on, as it was childrens allowance day.

EoghanIRL;81906107 idea is spend SW on the basics, well why not limit the purchase to the basics?

*No offence meant to Bud drinkers.

steddyeddy · 24-11-2012 01:10AM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Could a food stamp system work in Ireland? Lets say a government debit card programme like whats used in other countries, a system like this could enable us to lower social welfare costs. With rent allowance already in place it means that the state will provide a person or family with the basic necessities only.

My idea for this comes from a documentary I was watching. It's certainly a tough measure but do you think that it's fair or not?

I dont agree with punishing people according to the amount of money they've been born into or fallen into no.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 24-11-2012 01:15AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I dont agree with punishing people according to the amount of money they've been born into or fallen into no.

It's not about punishing anybody, the state needs to save and it would more than likely be a short term programme. The state can't account for fate, those lucky enough to be born into wealthy families etc.

Pottler · 24-11-2012 01:16AM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, I know what you're saying. I have a business with my father and we're shaky at the moment. We won't be entitled to any assistance if it goes under.

No Deft, I'm doing ok, but every lad who now works for me had their own business - we're like the raggy dolls at this stage, I'm fecked if lads I've known and liked all my life will be left go to hell because they tried and failed. Of the working men in my small area, about 30% work for me, all joking and AH humour aside.

I'll bust my hole till xmass to ensure there's money in their houses for a good christmass but that will be it, come january, I've decided I've had enough. All I get for working my as5 off is tax after tax after bill and I'm entitled to no tax breaks, no grants and no dole. After xmass I'll lay everyone off bar a core few and look after no1, not by choice, but just because this govt seems determined to make it next to impossible to keep going if you are Irish and in business.:mad: Just to put a bit of perspective on it, I pay >5k a month in PRSI. Find that somwhere else Enda, this wells going dry. That and the 15k in VAT I hand up every month. Taxed to the hilt does not even cover it. I am genuinely despondent this month, which I never am as I see a very bleak future ahead for the working man. A good friend of mine, a real hard worker all his life told me today he's emigrating to Canada. That's Canadas gain and Irelands loss. At this stage, it feels like the last stand at Rourkes drift tbh, everyone I know keeps telling me how lucky I am to still be going, I'm starting to not feel so lucky.

steddyeddy · 24-11-2012 01:20AM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

It's not about punishing anybody, the state needs to save and it would more than likely be a short term programme. The state can't account for fate, those lucky enough to be born into wealthy families etc.

The first point about the state saving is a secondary priorty coming under the health of it's people for me.

The second point about the state accounting for fate isnt quite true. Thats exactly what the state does. If that wasnt the case only those born into wealthy families would do well in life.

steddyeddy · 24-11-2012 01:21AM

Pottler wrote: »

No Deft, I'm doing ok, but every lad who now works for me had their own business - we're like the raggy dolls at this stage, I'm fecked if lads I've known and liked all my life will be left go to hell because they tried and failed. Of the working men in my small area, about 30% work for me, all joking and AH humour aside.

I'll bust my hole till xmass to ensure there's money in their houses for a good christmass but that will be it, come january, I've decided I've had enough. All I get for working my as5 off is tax after tax after bill and I'm entitled to no tax breaks, no grants and no dole. After xmass I'll lay everyone off bar a core few and look after no1, not by choice, but just because this govt seems determined to make it next to impossible to keep going if you are Irish and in business.:mad:

You do right. It clearly wasnt an easy choice for you.

Spiritual · 24-11-2012 01:30AM

Jesus Christ can people please stop looking at Ireland as a Third World Country. There is still plenty of wealth in this country it's just that we the people keep allowing fúcking idiots to manage it. We keep allowing a few to garner all the wealth and we keep providing them with ways to pay very little back.
The problem is the system, we need to fix it from the top down. Talk of food stamps and "butter vouchers" is just away of creating more wealth for the minority at the top.

It makes me angry when a welfare system is looked at as the bottom of the barrel, it is a means to look after the less fortunate in a society not a badge of shame. Yes some will find a away of abusing it but in relative terms the wealth of this country has been squandered, abused and hidden away in vast more amounts by those at the top than will ever be defrauded by the people at the bottom.

Our society is fúcked because of this inane since of beholding that people still have in their psyche. Keep allowing the people at the top to make stupid decisions and not bother to hold them to account or raise our collective voice and force change and they will keep screwing us.

I haven't worked hard in this country for a quarter of a century to be told by someone, that mismanages billions and create laws and governance to ensure that their cash cow keeps on giving long after they have stepped aside, that I can now have a food stamp to get myself a bit of food.

Ditchfinder · 24-11-2012 01:37AM

Pottler wrote: »

No Deft, I'm doing ok, but every lad who now works for me had their own business - we're like the raggy dolls at this stage, I'm fecked if lads I've known and liked all my life will be left go to hell because they tried and failed. Of the working men in my small area, about 30% work for me, all joking and AH humour aside.

I'll bust my hole till xmass to ensure there's money in their houses for a good christmass but that will be it, come january, I've decided I've had enough. All I get for working my as5 off is tax after tax after bill and I'm entitled to no tax breaks, no grants and no dole. After xmass I'll lay everyone off bar a core few and look after no1, not by choice, but just because this govt seems determined to make it next to impossible to keep going if you are Irish and in business.:mad: Just to put a bit of perspective on it, I pay >5k a month in PRSI. Find that somwhere else Enda, this wells going dry. That and the 15k in VAT I hand up every month. Taxed to the hilt does not even cover it. I am genuinely despondent this month, which I never am as I see a very bleak future ahead for the working man. A good friend of mine, a real hard worker all his life told me today he's emigrating to Canada. That's Canadas gain and Irelands loss.

The Tax/VAT bill is a direct result of your performance,

PRSI: necessary cost of doing business.
Vat: you are charging out more than you are purchasing.

Only you can fix the problem.

Food Stamps

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