Food Stamps

DEFTLEFTHAND

Could a food stamp system work in Ireland? Lets say a government debit card programme like whats used in other countries, a system like this could enable us to lower social welfare costs. With rent allowance already in place it means that the state will provide a person or family with the basic necessities only.

My idea for this comes from a documentary I was watching. It's certainly a tough measure but do you think that it's fair or not?

EoghanIRL

No

phasers

What do you class as basic necessities? How much would this system cost to set up? I think savings would be minimal when all this is considered. It may also artificially raise the price of food, like rent allowance does with rent.

This wouldn't work in Ireland anyway, people would just work out some sort of trade system where someone swaps the amount on the card for a lower cash value.

keith16

Ireland: Food stamp economy.

Doesn't have a good ring to it, does it?

Man007

Yes definitely it would make sure people on welfare have necessities but cut out any spend on luxuries which people on welfare should not be entitled to.

Esoteric_

Yay, another welfare thread.

El Weirdo

No.

Thin end of the wedge, tbh.

Esoteric_

Man007 wrote: »

Yes definitely it would make sure people on welfare have necessities but cut out any spend on luxuries which people on welfare should not be entitled to.

My welfare is money that I have paid into the tax system since I was 15 and never claimed until recently. Fúck right off if you think you have the right to judge what it should be spent on.

EoghanIRL

My idea : a socaial welfare type card. It can't be used to buy alcohol or fags , only the necessities . That word sort some of the problem

BASHIR

No, preserves poverty. I want to save 10 euro a week from my dole to get the train to dublin/buy new suit/put petrol in my car for a job interview. Cant now cause I only get food stamps and rent paid. Who pays my esb water charge household hrge mortgage. My local shop doesnt accept new scheme, does it include the yeast free bread. So many factors make it unfair.

LETHAL LADY

Bring back butter vouchers, in my hometown you could trade them for everything.

DEFTLEFTHAND

It wouldn't mean a total cut on welfare received it would just mean a reduction, obviously it would have to be sensitive to certain individuals circumstances.

wendell borton

Let them eat cheese.:rolleyes:

BASHIR

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

Bring back butter vouchers, in my hometown you could trade them for everything.

How many butter vouchers was it to get the car fixed

Run_to_da_hills

If food stamps were to be introduced into Ireland it would probably be some kind of a smart card. The Government would be able to dictate to you what you could buy and not buy.

coolhull

Man007 wrote: »

Yes definitely it would make sure people on welfare have necessities but cut out any spend on luxuries which people on welfare should not be entitled to.

You mean luxuries like TV, Christmas presents for kids, that sort of thing?

Yes, if you've been laid off work, you shouldn't be entitled to anything other than basic foodstuff

Tombi!

Let's see: we have a black market for drugs, smokes, PPS numbers.

I can see food stamps being added to that.

zenno

wendell borton wrote: »

Let them eat cheese.:rolleyes:

I used to hate mice but now i can see what the poor little feller has to go through living on cheese. I have more respect now for mice than some people here. Chedder cheese sambo/chedder cheese toasted sambo/chedder melted on cornflakes/chedder melted on my finger, yep my middle finger. noooooo more cheese i tells ye, enough of the cheese.

coolhull

EoghanIRL wrote: »

My idea : a socaial welfare type card. It can't be used to buy alcohol or fags , only the necessities . That word sort some of the problem

Aaah, another flog 'em- cos -they- lost -their- jobs type. You must work in the Public Service..

LETHAL LADY

BASHIR wrote: »

How many butter vouchers was it to get the car fixed

Dunno bout that, but according to local rumours there was a lady of the night who used to perform favours for butter vouchers in order to feed her drink habit.
As far as I recall their sole purpose was for blocks of Irish butter, but the shop I worked in used to accept them for anything including fags and drink and there was no limit to how many a person could trade against a purchase.

Pottler

I'm one of those self employed mugs, there's lots of us. If I'm out of work I won't get postal stamps, let alone food stamps. One guy working for me now had 45 employees, lost his business, the employees all get the dole, he was entitled to SFA and had to survive as best he could. I give a sh1t what the dole is, is worth or what form it takes, I know for a fact I won't get it if I stumble, I'll just get hit with more tax.

zenno

Pottler wrote: »

I'm one of those self employed mugs, there's lots of us. If I'm out of work I won't get postal stamps, let alone food stamps. One guy working for me now had 45 employees, lost his business, the employees all get the dole, he was entitled to SFA and had to survive as best he could. I give a sh1t what the dole is, is worth or what form it takes, I know for a fact I won't get it if I stumble, I'll just get hit with more tax.

Well this is where it all has to change on a major scale. You put something into the economy and try your best and then you are not entitled to anything on social welfare. This is just way out of order and i still cannot understand why some self-employed people that lost their business cannot get social backing, it does begger belief. We have a very strange social system we have here that's for sure.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Pottler wrote: »

I'm one of those self employed mugs, there's lots of us. If I'm out of work I won't get postal stamps, let alone food stamps. One guy working for me now had 45 employees, lost his business, the employees all get the dole, he was entitled to SFA and had to survive as best he could. I give a sh1t what the dole is, is worth or what form it takes, I know for a fact I won't get it if I stumble, I'll just get hit with more tax.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, I know what you're saying. I have a business with my father and we're shaky at the moment. We won't be entitled to any assistance if it goes under.

Ditchfinder

wendell borton wrote: »

Let them eat cheese.:rolleyes:

EoghanIRL wrote: »

My idea : a socaial welfare type card. It can't be used to buy alcohol or fags , only the necessities . That word sort some of the problem

The above would take care a lot of the waste. On a day off recently, I asked the OH is it usual to have people walking around with/waiting at Bus Stops with large amounts of beer (boxes of Bud* etc.).

OH informed me that it was the first Tuesday of the month and yes it is usual on this day to see such carry on, as it was childrens allowance day.

EoghanIRL;81906107 idea is spend SW on the basics, well why not limit the purchase to the basics?

*No offence meant to Bud drinkers.

steddyeddy

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Could a food stamp system work in Ireland? Lets say a government debit card programme like whats used in other countries, a system like this could enable us to lower social welfare costs. With rent allowance already in place it means that the state will provide a person or family with the basic necessities only.

My idea for this comes from a documentary I was watching. It's certainly a tough measure but do you think that it's fair or not?

I dont agree with punishing people according to the amount of money they've been born into or fallen into no.

DEFTLEFTHAND

steddyeddy wrote: »

I dont agree with punishing people according to the amount of money they've been born into or fallen into no.

It's not about punishing anybody, the state needs to save and it would more than likely be a short term programme. The state can't account for fate, those lucky enough to be born into wealthy families etc.

Pottler

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, I know what you're saying. I have a business with my father and we're shaky at the moment. We won't be entitled to any assistance if it goes under.

No Deft, I'm doing ok, but every lad who now works for me had their own business - we're like the raggy dolls at this stage, I'm fecked if lads I've known and liked all my life will be left go to hell because they tried and failed. Of the working men in my small area, about 30% work for me, all joking and AH humour aside.

I'll bust my hole till xmass to ensure there's money in their houses for a good christmass but that will be it, come january, I've decided I've had enough. All I get for working my as5 off is tax after tax after bill and I'm entitled to no tax breaks, no grants and no dole. After xmass I'll lay everyone off bar a core few and look after no1, not by choice, but just because this govt seems determined to make it next to impossible to keep going if you are Irish and in business.:mad: Just to put a bit of perspective on it, I pay >5k a month in PRSI. Find that somwhere else Enda, this wells going dry. That and the 15k in VAT I hand up every month. Taxed to the hilt does not even cover it. I am genuinely despondent this month, which I never am as I see a very bleak future ahead for the working man. A good friend of mine, a real hard worker all his life told me today he's emigrating to Canada. That's Canadas gain and Irelands loss. At this stage, it feels like the last stand at Rourkes drift tbh, everyone I know keeps telling me how lucky I am to still be going, I'm starting to not feel so lucky.

steddyeddy

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

It's not about punishing anybody, the state needs to save and it would more than likely be a short term programme. The state can't account for fate, those lucky enough to be born into wealthy families etc.

The first point about the state saving is a secondary priorty coming under the health of it's people for me.

The second point about the state accounting for fate isnt quite true. Thats exactly what the state does. If that wasnt the case only those born into wealthy families would do well in life.

steddyeddy

Pottler wrote: »

No Deft, I'm doing ok, but every lad who now works for me had their own business - we're like the raggy dolls at this stage, I'm fecked if lads I've known and liked all my life will be left go to hell because they tried and failed. Of the working men in my small area, about 30% work for me, all joking and AH humour aside.

I'll bust my hole till xmass to ensure there's money in their houses for a good christmass but that will be it, come january, I've decided I've had enough. All I get for working my as5 off is tax after tax after bill and I'm entitled to no tax breaks, no grants and no dole. After xmass I'll lay everyone off bar a core few and look after no1, not by choice, but just because this govt seems determined to make it next to impossible to keep going if you are Irish and in business.:mad:

You do right. It clearly wasnt an easy choice for you.

Spiritual

Jesus Christ can people please stop looking at Ireland as a Third World Country. There is still plenty of wealth in this country it's just that we the people keep allowing fúcking idiots to manage it. We keep allowing a few to garner all the wealth and we keep providing them with ways to pay very little back.
The problem is the system, we need to fix it from the top down. Talk of food stamps and "butter vouchers" is just away of creating more wealth for the minority at the top.

It makes me angry when a welfare system is looked at as the bottom of the barrel, it is a means to look after the less fortunate in a society not a badge of shame. Yes some will find a away of abusing it but in relative terms the wealth of this country has been squandered, abused and hidden away in vast more amounts by those at the top than will ever be defrauded by the people at the bottom.

Our society is fúcked because of this inane since of beholding that people still have in their psyche. Keep allowing the people at the top to make stupid decisions and not bother to hold them to account or raise our collective voice and force change and they will keep screwing us.

I haven't worked hard in this country for a quarter of a century to be told by someone, that mismanages billions and create laws and governance to ensure that their cash cow keeps on giving long after they have stepped aside, that I can now have a food stamp to get myself a bit of food.

Ditchfinder

Pottler wrote: »

No Deft, I'm doing ok, but every lad who now works for me had their own business - we're like the raggy dolls at this stage, I'm fecked if lads I've known and liked all my life will be left go to hell because they tried and failed. Of the working men in my small area, about 30% work for me, all joking and AH humour aside.

I'll bust my hole till xmass to ensure there's money in their houses for a good christmass but that will be it, come january, I've decided I've had enough. All I get for working my as5 off is tax after tax after bill and I'm entitled to no tax breaks, no grants and no dole. After xmass I'll lay everyone off bar a core few and look after no1, not by choice, but just because this govt seems determined to make it next to impossible to keep going if you are Irish and in business.:mad: Just to put a bit of perspective on it, I pay >5k a month in PRSI. Find that somwhere else Enda, this wells going dry. That and the 15k in VAT I hand up every month. Taxed to the hilt does not even cover it. I am genuinely despondent this month, which I never am as I see a very bleak future ahead for the working man. A good friend of mine, a real hard worker all his life told me today he's emigrating to Canada. That's Canadas gain and Irelands loss.

The Tax/VAT bill is a direct result of your performance,

PRSI: necessary cost of doing business.
Vat: you are charging out more than you are purchasing.

Only you can fix the problem.

Pottler

steddyeddy wrote: »

The first point about the state saving is a secondary priorty coming under the health of it's people for me.

The second point about the state accounting for fate isnt quite true. Thats exactly what the state does. If that wasnt the case only those born into wealthy families would do well in life.

Actually strongly agree with this- they keep cutting back on Health services but preserving the admin layers. At some stage they might realise if everyones ill, you've no-one to tax.

4zn76tysfajdxp

We need more poor people to look down on.

Pottler

Ditchfinder wrote: »

The Tax/VAT bill is a direct result of your performance,

PRSI: necessary cost of doing business.
Vat: you are charging out more than you are purchasing.

Only you can fix the problem.

Yeah, that's called making money to pay the wages. Thanks for the tips anyway, you're a star.

Pottler

Elle Whining Insecticide wrote: »

We need more poor people to look down on.

Stick around, you'll get them. Give it three years.:)

Muir

Well, the country is in a bad way, why not pay people food stamps instead of their wage so they can only live on the basics until the country is in a better way? And before the "oh well I pay my tax", so did a large majority who are now on the dole because there's no work in the country. Ideas like these are so stupid when there is no work out there for people who genuinely are looking for it (which is most of those unemployed). People are getting depressed having lost their job, possibly their home, trying to find work, could you imagine what a scheme like this would do? You'd most likely see a large increase in suicide rates.

It might make sense when there is work out there and those that are unemployed just aren't trying to find work. But that certainly isn't the case at the moment.

Hippies!

There really isn't a problem with social welfare in this country at all like. In the grand scheme of things the inefficiencies and savings can be found elsewhere ten fold. Take a chill pill lads, you're being screwed from the top down not from the bottom up.

Spiritual

Muir wrote: »

Well, the country is in a bad way, why not pay people food stamps instead of their wage so they can only live on the basics until the country is in a better way? And before the "oh well I pay my tax", so did a large majority who are now on the dole because there's no work in the country. Ideas like these are so stupid when there is no work out there for people who genuinely are looking for it (which is most of those unemployed). People are getting depressed having lost their job, possibly their home, trying to find work, could you imagine what a scheme like this would do? You'd most likely see a large increase in suicide rates.

It might make sense when there is work out there and those that are unemployed just aren't trying to find work. But that certainly isn't the case at the moment.

Personally I think a political revolution would be a better option. 450000 unemployed people, many of them highly qualified and highly educated could bring about a big change in this country.

If only they all had the collective spirit to do this :rolleyes:

Sam Kade

So how would food vouchers pay for esb, heating bills etc?

Ditchfinder

Pottler wrote: »

Yeah, that's called making money to pay the wages. Thanks for the tips anyway, you're a star.

Why give out about the basics of business, I respect that you have employees, and families to think of, but every other (legit) business in this country is faced with the same issues. If your business is un sustainable then unfortunately you will have to close. This is no ones fault

Pottler

Ditchfinder wrote: »

Why give out about the basics of business, I respect youhave employees, and families to think of, but every other (legit) business inthis country is faced with the same issues. If your business is un sustainable thenunfortunately you will have to close, I take no pride in this

Your post is idiotic, tbh. My business is utterly sustainable, I work for the cream of Irish Industry, I will just cut back on employee numbers and focus on our work in Spain, the Uk and Germany. I won't go bust, not a chance, there'll just be less men taking home a weeks wages to reduce costs. Anyway, I reckon you're trolling, so go troll someone else, I've no interest in anything you have to say, tbh. My business was nominated as County enterprise of the year by our bank this year due to our growth figures, but the tax burden we're facing in ireland is crippling at the moment, we have opportunities abroad and will take them, but this is still a very depressing time to be in business in Ireland.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Sam Kade wrote: »

So how would food vouchers pay for esb, heating bills etc?

I've already stated that it doesn't mean a total cut in welfare, it's a reduction. How would somebody like me who's self employed pay for light and heat? Sh1t happens you've got to pull yourself out of it, the real world isn't easy believe me.

Adyx

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Could a food stamp system work in Ireland? Lets say a government debit card programme like whats used in other countries, a system like this could enable us to lower social welfare costs. With rent allowance already in place it means that the state will provide a person or family with the basic necessities only.

My idea for this comes from a documentary I was watching. It's certainly a tough measure but do you think that it's fair or not?

I don't get rent allowance, how will I pay my rent? I don't have a medical card, how will I pay if I need to see a doctor or for medicine? I still owe (a modest amount) money from before I lost my job, how will I pay that?

I don't feel any need to justify my spending habits to other people seeing as it's none of their business but I don't smoke and very rarely have a drink.

As well as all that, you forget that here in Ireland any attempt to change a system results in a vastly greater amount being spent than would be saved by changing the system.

zenno

Elle Whining Insecticide wrote: »

We need more poor people to look down on.

We need more rich people to tax

One liners man ? sort that out will ye. Example...We need more poor people to look down on "because" ? you can do better Elle Whining Insecticide.

Ditchfinder

Pottler wrote: »

Your post is idiotic, tbh. My business is utterly sustainable, I work for the cream of Irish Industry, I will just cut back on employee numbers and focus on our work in Spain, the Uk and Germany. I won't go bust, not a chance, there'll just be less men taking home a weeks wages to reduce costs. Anyway, I reckon you're trolling, so go troll someone else, I've no interest in anything you have to say, tbh.

I am not a troll but a new member (I understand your reasoning). I think I have no direct result on your business, but I am glad you are sucessful, and lets be honest in the current climate that is not so common. I wish you the best for the future, I hope things pick up and the afore mentioned suggestion of lay offs in Ireland do not happen.

donalg1

No food stamps would not be a good idea there are a million other ways to reform the social welfare system without having to demean people so much.

Emeraldy Pebbles

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Could a food stamp system work in Ireland? Lets say a government debit card programme like whats used in other countries, a system like this could enable us to lower social welfare costs. With rent allowance already in place it means that the state will provide a person or family with the basic necessities only.

My idea for this comes from a documentary I was watching. It's certainly a tough measure but do you think that it's fair or not?

No, it's stigmatising.

Spiritual

Emeraldy Pebbles wrote: »

No, it's stigmatising.

You've nailed it.

SafeSurfer

Cash has always been king in Ireland. It is government policy.

Free child care/ nah more children's allowance
More social housing/ nah just increase rent allowance

It is done like this for very political motives of clientelism.

Doling out cash instead of services gives the government much more political power.

Spiritual

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Cash.

Doling out cash instead of services gives the government much more political power.

And circulates money more readily within the economy, people at the low end do not have money to save in large amounts so this form of social assistance is actually better for the economy as a whole.

Food stamps would totally wipe out this portion of money movement and inevitably lead to more wealth at the top that may well find it's way out of the country.

Better management of our services is what is required, that is where the savings can be made.

Oh and Croke Park, lets not forget, Croke Park.

lukesmom

No food stamps but bring back the Christmas bonus as an apology for fcuking everything else up