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Is this wrong.

  • 19-11-2012 02:23PM
    #1
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭


    I can't go in to much detail about this but as there are a lot of young people on after hours it might be interesting to here opinions on this.

    A tradesman is ruining a one man show and he has there or there abouts enough work to keep himself fully employed sometimes a bit more that that sometimes a bit less than that.

    The tradesman is approved by a father he knows, and is asked would he take that persons son on as an apprentice now the young lad in question says he will work for much much less than the legal agreed rate for first year apprentices and will keep this quiet.

    The tradesman in question is pondering this but is wary.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Big Nasty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,066 ✭✭✭✭Big Nasty


    If 'he' wants to take him on as an apprentice why not pay him the full apprentice rate. It's fvck all anyhow. ;)


  • #3
    Hulk Hands
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,019 ✭✭✭Hulk Hands


    In before the 'ruining' joke


  • #4
    SunnyDub1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,439 ✭✭✭SunnyDub1


    The way things are today, I'd say the young lad should be grateful to be given the opportunity to be kept busy, gain some experience and getting a few quid for it.


  • #5
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    He will need extra insurance for the lad


  • #6
    donegal_road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭donegal_road


    is he on the rock n' roll?


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  • #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    He does not want to take him on as such and although he has has apprentices before he has not had one in a few years because of the recession he does not really need one as such, but the father who approached him is looking for a favourer and it would be just for the first year just so he can get a start if that make sense.


  • #8
    El Guapo!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,450 ✭✭✭✭El Guapo!


    Apprentice rates are little or nothing so I'd pay the proper rate if I was in his position. If that's still too much then don't take him on.
    Sure, everything is amicable at the moment and everyone will keep it quiet, but what happens if there's an argument and they fall out? Who knows whether the apprentice will be spiteful and tell the authorites. The tradesman could be in serious trouble.
    Either pay the full rates, or nothing at all.


  • #9
    iamstop
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 13,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭iamstop


    If he doesn't pay him properly what evidence is there that he was an apprentice at all? Wouldn't this make the whole thing a bowling ball, i.e. pointless?

    https://open.spotify.com/album/69JKwCcZGdLqX4Upj3DwP7



  • #10
    Big Nasty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,066 ✭✭✭✭Big Nasty


    At a guess I would imagine that the father wants the best of both worlds. I.e. his son is out working, learning a trade and getting a few bob while also claiming the dole. The reason I say this is because a) apprentice fees are very low as is (cq. €200 a week?) and b) if the father is offering his sons services at less than this it will probably be cash-in-hand without any paper trail. The thing is if the son is not registered with FAS and with the OP or 'his friend' as an employee his years service will count for nothing.


  • #11
    westendgirlie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,125 ✭✭✭westendgirlie


    He would have to register the apprentice with FAS otherwise, it's just work experience. If he did register him, he would have to pay him the going rates, have employers insurance, pay for training, etc.

    There is a scheme called RAPS (redundant apprentice placement scheme) and the apprentice would be paid by FAS and not the employer. The young lad would have to check with his FAS training adviser if he was eligible though. You would still need the correct level of employers insurance though.


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  • #12
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    mariaalice wrote: »
    but the father who approached him is looking for a favourer and it would be just for the first year just so he can get a start if that make sense.

    get a start in a profession that probably has no future (unless he is emigrating), the father should talk some sense into him :cool:


  • #13
    granturismo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭granturismo


    mariaalice wrote: »
    I can't go in to much detail about this but as there are a lot of young people on after hours it might be interesting to hear opinions on this.

    A tradesman is running a one man show and he has there or there abouts enough work to keep himself fully employed sometimes a bit more that that sometimes a bit less than that.

    The tradesman is approached by a father he knows, and is asked would he take that persons son on as an apprentice now the young lad in question says he will work for much much less than the legal agreed rate for first year apprentices and will keep this quiet.

    The tradesman in question is pondering this but is wary.

    FYP


  • #14
    sfwcork
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭sfwcork


    pay him the going rate but make him do stupid hours unpaid or else sexual favours


  • #15
    AnarchistKen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 129 ✭✭AnarchistKen


    It is wrong. End of.

    Apprentice rates since Feb 11 are €5.73/per hour. Which is feck all when you factor in inflation.

    I hope someone gets caught by the short and curlys for employing somebody below this rate and gets hauled before the LRC.


  • #16
    Faolchu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,742 ✭✭✭Faolchu


    will the young lad be forced to use the tradesmens entrance?


  • #17
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    The redundant scheme is no good here as the apprentice isn't a redundant apprentice.

    1st years are a liability , the tradesman would be crazy to take him on now. Better off to use the redundant scheme, get a fourth year apprentice for a few months and have FAS pay them.

    With regard to drawing the dole. If the apprentice is signed up on to FAS they cannot cliam the dole. If he isnt signed up to FAS then he isn't an apprentice.


  • #18
    pontia
    Site Banned Posts: 385 ✭✭pontia


    theres tradesmen on app rates with subbies,mainly northies coming in doing jobs for f all.employing eastern europeans and irish guys who are stuck.union throws a few shapes but does sfa,trades finished,get out or dont start


  • #19
    westendgirlie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,125 ✭✭✭westendgirlie


    pontia wrote: »
    theres tradesmen on app rates with subbies,mainly northies coming in doing jobs for f all.employing eastern europeans and irish guys who are stuck.union throws a few shapes but does sfa,trades finished,get out or dont start

    I really don't get why people bring up eastern Europeans or northies and in the same sentence tell tradesmen from Ireland to go look in other countries for work :confused:


  • #20
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    The father in this case is the one in the wrong for approaching his friend and asking him to put himself in that positon. The father should be old enough to understand the possible legal rammifications of what he is asking of his friend.

    The son is just as naive to be offering to work for less than the going apprentice rates and should anything happen to him from a health and safety perspective, he is not insured or covered for sick pay.

    I can't be sure but would his time served in this shamprenticeship even be recognised by any qualifying body? If he isn't registered and everything isn't above board and on the books, then surely he is only just helping the guy out for cash in hand and not working towards any kind of qualification?

    It sounds like it has the potential to become a complete mess of a situation best avoided by the guy saying "hell no!", and leave it at that if he doesn't want to put his business and his reputation at risk.


  • #21
    SwanEater
    Site Banned Posts: 13 ✭SwanEater


    mariaalice wrote: »
    now the young lad in question says he will work for much much less than the legal agreed rate for first year apprentices and will keep this quiet.

    Fecking eastern europeans, sick of them already!!! :rolleyes:


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  • #22
    Topper Harley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭Topper Harley


    granturismo wrote: »
    FYP

    This is AH, not Creative Writing. The OP wasn't looking for a critique of his post.


  • #23
    Remmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Remmy


    He has no liathroidi, I want warriars !!


  • #24
    NegativeCreep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,351 ✭✭✭NegativeCreep


    So, am I the only one who didn't understand a word of the OP?


  • #25
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,624 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    A good deed never goes unpunished.

    If he can't afford to pay the apprentice the legal rate, and insurance and registrations ect. then walk away. He's taking all the risk and by the sound of it for little benefit.


  • #26
    YouTookMyName
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,360 ✭✭✭YouTookMyName


    I wanna know what trade.


  • #27
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    mariaalice wrote: »
    I can't go in to much detail about this but as there are a lot of young people on after hours it might be interesting to here opinions on this.

    A tradesman is ruining a one man show and he has there or there abouts enough work to keep himself fully employed sometimes a bit more that that sometimes a bit less than that.

    The tradesman is approved by a father he knows, and is asked would he take that persons son on as an apprentice now the young lad in question says he will work for much much less than the legal agreed rate for first year apprentices and will keep this quiet.

    The tradesman in question is pondering this but is wary.

    Yes, it's immoral to give someone less than the minimum wage for their work. If you are the person in question, if you accept being pushed over once, what's to say you won't get pushed over again in a similar manner?


  • #28
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    philologos wrote: »
    Yes, it's immoral to give someone less than the minimum wage for their work. If you are the person in question, if you accept being pushed over once, what's to say you won't get pushed over again in a similar manner?


    Job bridge schemes?


  • #29
    longhalloween
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭longhalloween


    Topper Harley wrote: »
    This is AH, not Creative Writing. The OP wasn't looking for a critique of his post.

    He wasn't looking for it but he definitely needed it.

    I didn't have a clue what he was on about.


  • #30
    SeantheMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,912 ✭✭✭SeantheMan


    Aren't we in a recession because of people in the building industry chancing their arm all over the place ?


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  • #31
    kfallon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,775 ✭✭✭✭kfallon


    Whenever I hear or see the word 'Tradesman' I seem to turn into a cross between Benny Hill and Kenneth Williams


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