Garda now admit state has lost war on drugs

RustyNut · 18-11-2012 01:02PM

LostBoy101 wrote: »

The only way to prevent big amount of drugs coming in is to increase the security strictness on the harbours.

I wonder could you point to somewhere this approach has worked, it certainly has been tried the US this year has spent well over $30,000,000,000 on the war on drugs and they are far from a drug free societie.

I would argue that that money would be better spent educating people as to the effects of drugs, good and bad and providing treatment for those people who are suffering negative effects from drug use.

MagicSean · 18-11-2012 01:03PM

Grayson wrote: »

God damn facts always ruin a good opinion.

He's right though. People seem to labour under the impression that legalising the cannabis market would be easy because they have this deluded impression that cannabis users are all basically easy going people who want to relax.

The reality would be quite different though. First you have the issue of licensing and sourcing imports. Where do you get it from? How do you ensure you are not funding crime in another country because you can be sure they won't appreciate it if you are. Maybe we should focus domestic production? Do you let people grow as much as they want or do you licence large scale production. How would you secure such a large growing facility from interference or theft? Who distributes the stuff? Chemists? Off licences? Anyone? What limits do you put on distribution? Will you tax it? At what rate? How do you get customers away from the dealers? How do you protect the legitimate sellers from the dealers who want to protect their income?

opinion guy · 18-11-2012 01:03PM

The Gardai were fighting a war on drugs ?

Zebra3 · 18-11-2012 01:08PM

opinion guy wrote: »

The Gardai were fighting a war on drugs ?

My thoughts exactly.

When was this war declared and who declared it?

I thought the guards were involved in policing, not fighting wars.

Does that mean convicted dealers are PoWs?

bedrock#1 · 18-11-2012 01:13PM

MagicSean wrote: »

He's right though.People seem to labour under the impression that legalising the cannabis market would be easy because they have this deluded impression that cannabis users are all basically easy going people who want to relax.

The reality would be quite different though. First you have the issue of licensing and sourcing imports. Where do you get it from? How do you ensure you are not funding crime in another country because you can be sure they won't appreciate it if you are. Maybe we should focus domestic production? Do you let people grow as much as they want or do you licence large scale production. How would you secure such a large growing facility from interference or theft? Who distributes the stuff? Chemists? Off licences? Anyone? What limits do you put on distribution? Will you tax it? At what rate? How do you get customers away from the dealers? How do you protect the legitimate sellers from the dealers who want to protect their income?

You'll find a lot of answers to your questions here.

There is a growing recognition around the world that the prohibition of drugs is a counterproductive failure. However, a major barrier to drug law reform has been a widespread fear of the unknown – just what could a post-prohibition regime look like?

For the first time, 'After the War on Drugs: Blueprint for Regulation' answers that question by proposing specific models of regulation for each main type and preparation of prohibited drug, coupled with the principles and rationale for doing so.

We demonstrate that moving to the legal regulation of drugs is not an unthinkable, politically impossible step in the dark, but a sensible, pragmatic approach to control drug production, supply and use.

http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blueprint%20download.htm

Also -

Uruguay are considering legislation at the moment to regulate their cannabis market.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/14/us-uruguay-marijuana-idUSBRE8AD1Q520121114

MagicSean wrote: »

He's right though. People seem to labour under the impression that legalising the cannabis market would be easy because they have this deluded impression that cannabis users are all basically easy going people who want to relax.

What?

Fizzlesque · 18-11-2012 01:20PM

nevaeh-2die-4 wrote: »

.......i lived next door to someone who smoked weed all day, the smell inside my house was sicking, the smell would come into my children's bedroom,there room became un usable as the smell was so strong. thankfully i left, but this is what your up against, some people might be ok with this I'm not......

I'm struggling to understand how this situation is possible. Were they smoking outdoors - underneath your children's bedroom window? Even if they were, I still find it difficult to believe the smell became so strong the room became unusable.

Were they smoking it without tobacco? Or was part of the smell that 'invaded' the room tobacco smoke? When my neighbours smoke cigarettes in their house, I can smell it through the hotpress in my bathroom, so I understand that tobacco smoke is very capable of travelling but even then it doesn't go any futher into the house - it certaintly doesn't render rooms in my house unusable. Grass smoke smell, while strong, doesn't linger as long or build up as bad a smell as cigarette smoke does - though, admittedly, I love the smell of grass, and clearly you don't, but still, grass, when smoked without tobacco, doesn't create as much smoke in the air as cigarettes do. I wonder was there a smell of tobacco permeating your children's bedroom as well, or did you not mind that part?

Just trying to understand the situation as it makes no sense to me when I read your post.

Chinasea · 18-11-2012 01:21PM

Perhaps this means they have finally acknowledged that Ireland has a rampant, out of control hard drug problem (not saying soft drugs aren't a problem either). Allah bloddy leuya.

Now, if they had any sense they would take a step back and appoint a sensible, proven successful approach to arresting, addressing, preventing the problem. There must be somewhere, somehow this can be done. Bring it on.

Spiritual · 18-11-2012 01:22PM

I have a solution, all you middle class kids stop buying your pills and coke from the local dealer. Simple.

mikom · 18-11-2012 01:25PM

LostBoy101 wrote: »

Legalising drugs is like a receipe for disaster. Take long-term marijuana smoking for example, does increasing tax stop them from smoking? No because it's addictive and this will apply to dangerous illegal drugs.

The only way to prevent big amount of drugs coming in is to increase the security strictness on the harbours.

I am a pilot of a drugs plane....... and I approve this message.

bedrock#1 · 18-11-2012 01:26PM

Spiritual wrote: »

I have a solution, all you middle class kids stop buying your pills and coke from the local dealer. Simple.

Genius.... I wonder has anyone come up with something so brilliantly simple, snappy and effective.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Say_No

Yamanoto · 18-11-2012 01:26PM

Spiritual wrote: »

I have a solution, all you middle class kids stop buying your pills and coke from the local dealer. Simple.

Sometimes the solutions staring you right in the face, brilliant. Call Joe tomorrow, he'll be sure to get the word out.

mikom · 18-11-2012 01:31PM

Meanwhile in the evolving world..........

State legislators in Rhode Island and Maine will announce bills tomorrow to legalize recreational marijuana, a spokesperson for the Marijuana Policy Project announced today. Rhode Island Rep. Edith Ajello and Maine Rep. Diane Russell will hold a conference call tomorrow with the Marijuana Policy Project to announce the legislation.
MPP says that "similar proposals will be submitted in at least two other states — Vermont and Massachusetts." A ballot iniative legalizing medical marijuana passed in Massachusetts last week with more than 60 percent of the vote. Maine voters voted to expand the state's 1999 medical marijuana law in 2009 to include dispensaries.
http://reason.com/blog/2012/11/14/st...-island-and-ma

Spiritual · 18-11-2012 01:32PM

bedrock#1 wrote: »

Genius.... I wonder has anyone come up with something so brilliantly simple, snappy and effective.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Say_No

Yamanoto wrote: »

Sometimes the solutions staring you right in the face, brilliant. Call Joe tomorrow, he'll be sure to get the word out.

Sometimes the obvious just stares you in the face.
I find great hilarity in the number of wage slaves that will line up to collect their pills and coke every weekend and seem to be totally ignorant of the fact that they are feeding the illegal drug industry.

Capt'n Midnight · 18-11-2012 01:45PM

the purple tin wrote: »

A "war" on drugs cannot be won. Look at Mexico ffs.

The number of people killed in the drugs wars in Mexico over the last six years has exceeded US military deaths in Vietnam.

Spiritual · 18-11-2012 01:48PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The number of people killed in the drugs wars in Mexico over the last six years has exceeded US military deaths in Vietnam.

Deaths of US military or deaths caused by US military as I am speculating that the numbers would be very different.

Andy-Pandy · 18-11-2012 01:57PM

It's simple really, people will only stop doing drugs when doing drugs stops being fun. Which will be never. I would totally be for the legalisation of cannabis and MDMA, they are relatively harmless. I dont think the likes of cocaine and heroin etc should ever be legally available.

120_Minutes · 18-11-2012 02:00PM

Spiritual wrote: »

Sometimes the obvious just stares you in the face.
I find great hilarity in the number of wage slaves that will line up to collect their pills and coke every weekend and seem to be totally ignorant of the fact that they are feeding the illegal drug industry.

Lucky I buy my weed off a mate who grows his own then, isn't it?

nevaeh-2die-4 · 18-11-2012 02:01PM

Fizzlesque wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand how this situation is possible. Were they smoking outdoors - underneath your children's bedroom window? Even if they were, I still find it difficult to believe the smell became so strong the room became unusable.

Were they smoking it without tobacco? Or was part of the smell that 'invaded' the room tobacco smoke? When my neighbours smoke cigarettes in their house, I can smell it through the hotpress in my bathroom, so I understand that tobacco smoke is very capable of travelling but even then it doesn't go any futher into the house - it certaintly doesn't render rooms in my house unusable. Grass smoke smell, while strong, doesn't linger as long or build up as bad a smell as cigarette smoke does - though, admittedly, I love the smell of grass, and clearly you don't, but still, grass, when smoked without tobacco, doesn't create as much smoke in the air as cigarettes do. I wonder was there a smell of tobacco permeating your children's bedroom as well, or did you not mind that part?

Just trying to understand the situation as it makes no sense to me when I read your post.

they where smoking in there bedroom next to my childrens, the houses were built in 2007 so i say that plays a part, it was defo weed

frag420 · 18-11-2012 02:01PM

Spiritual wrote: »

Sometimes the obvious just stares you in the face.
I find great hilarity in the number of wage slaves that will line up to collect their pills and coke every weekend and seem to be totally ignorant of the fact that they are feeding the illegal drug industry.

By wage slaves I presume you are referring to tax paying workers?? So how about this radical idea.........instead of penalising these tax paying members of society for feeding tbr illegal drug industry we make it legal and they stop bring criminals, they keep working and things continue as they were.

Well except for the criminal gangs who will now see a severe drop in income. Unless of course you want the criminal gangs to keep making millions in untaxed income?

The demand will never go away. When anti drug folks stsrt to realise this the better. So it's up to us as a society to decide how this demand is administered, either by gun carrying murdering track suit dwelling scumholes or by the scumholes in the government!! One supplies hangs with guns, money and power. The other makes money for society through taxes!!

Better tbr devil you know eh!!

Spiritual · 18-11-2012 02:10PM

120_Minutes wrote: »

Lucky I buy my weed off a mate who grows his own then, isn't it?

It is. The extra income your mate gets and passes onto the revenue is always a good thing.

frag420 wrote: »

By wage slaves I presume you are referring to tax paying workers?? So how about this radical idea.........instead of penalising these tax paying members of society for feeding tbr illegal drug industry we make it legal and they stop bring criminals, they keep working and things continue as they were.

Well except for the criminal gangs who will now see a severe drop in income. Unless of course you want the criminal gangs to keep making millions in untaxed income?

The demand will never go away. When anti drug folks stsrt to realise this the better. So it's up to us as a society to decide how this demand is administered, either by gun carrying murdering track suit dwelling scumholes or by the scumholes in the government!! One supplies hangs with guns, money and power. The other makes money for society through taxes!!

Better tbr devil you know eh!!

I have always been in favour of legalising drugs though I am still to be convinced that the long term affects to society will be anything but negative.

We are a society that still can't use alcohol responsibly.

SDTimeout · 18-11-2012 02:14PM

One if not both of the next presidential U.S candidates will be pro legalization I think.

You should also read this http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/07/05/ten-years-after-decriminalization-drug-abuse-down-by-half-in-portugal/

Fizzlesque · 18-11-2012 02:16PM

nevaeh-2die-4 wrote: »

they where smoking in there bedroom next to my childrens, the houses were built in 2007 so i say that plays a part, it was defo weed

Badly built housing, fair enough. Probably would have filled the room with tobacco smoke too in that case, that stuff really knows how to travel.

kincsem · 18-11-2012 02:17PM

frag420 wrote: »

The demand will never go away. When anti drug folks stsrt to realise this the better. So it's up to us as a society to decide how this demand is administered, either by gun carrying murdering track suit dwelling scumholes or by the scumholes in the government!! One supplies hangs with guns, money and power. The other makes money for society through taxes!!

Better tbe devil you know eh!!

Drug dealers will -
steal drugs from pharmacies or official suppliers / warehouses
undercut official taxed sources in the same way they undercut taxed cigarettes
will burn out / bomb / intimidate official sources

The market will be bigger, and big money attracts low life.

robman60 · 18-11-2012 02:19PM

The "War on Drugs" is pretty farcical in my opinion. Prohibition of weed is just indefensible, whatever about proscribing harder drugs.

PizzamanIRL · 18-11-2012 02:21PM

This isn't news. They never had a grip of the war on drugs.

Armin_Tamzarian · 18-11-2012 02:24PM

nevaeh-2die-4 wrote: »

i lived next door to someone who smoked weed all day, the smell inside my house was sicking, the smell would come into my children's bedroom,there room became un usable as the smell was so strong.

Are we talking about weed or plutonium here?
Get a grip Buddy!

snubbleste · 18-11-2012 02:26PM

Marijuana on the medical card?
Growers make money selling to the State and the population will be too sedated to protest.
win win.

Icyseanfitz · 18-11-2012 02:42PM

kincsem wrote: »

Drug dealers will -
steal drugs from pharmacies or official suppliers / warehouses
undercut official taxed sources in the same way they undercut taxed cigarettes
will burn out / bomb / intimidate official sources

The market will be bigger, and big money attracts low life.

i dont and never have touched drugs (bar alcohol) but if weed became legal and i had two options to get it, from a safe legal shop or a dodgy looking fela undercutting i would certainly go with the former,
its just like you dont see people buying illegal booze over the legal stuff

18-11-2012 02:45PM

MagicSean wrote: »

The reality would be quite different though. First you have the issue of licensing and sourcing imports. Where do you get it from?

Treat it like alcohol.

How do you ensure you are not funding crime in another country because you can be sure they won't appreciate it if you are.

Treat it the same as alcohol.

Maybe we should focus domestic production?

Bit inefficient but might be better by saving on transport costs.

Do you let people grow as much as they want or do you licence large scale production.

If they're not selling it they can grow what they want without declaring. Kind of like roses now.

How would you secure such a large growing facility from interference or theft?

Security guards?

Who distributes the stuff? Chemists? Off licences? Anyone?

Have a licencing system. Off licences would be the handiest right now but on-premises consumption could be allowed too unless people got very nimby-ish.

What limits do you put on distribution?

Same as alcohol.

Will you tax it?

Yes.

At what rate?

A sensible one, not at the ludicrous level that cigarettes are at now.

How do you get customers away from the dealers?

It'll be cheaper.

How do you protect the legitimate sellers from the dealers who want to protect their income?

Similar to the illegal distilleries.

Any more questions? To be honest the biggest problem I'd see with the legalisation process is that grass is too cheap. Even right now someone could easily get stoned for an evening for a euro or two and that's someone making a profit after half a dozen other people have made a profit, people have been paid off, etc. etc. Legal production would cause weed to be so cheap (sans-tax) that the drinks companies would never allow it and home-grown stuff would make economic sense if stupidly taxes were put on it.

frag420 · 18-11-2012 02:51PM

kincsem wrote: »

Drug dealers will -
steal drugs from pharmacies or official suppliers / warehouses
undercut official taxed sources in the same way they undercut taxed cigarettes
will burn out / bomb / intimidate official sources

The market will be bigger, and big money attracts low life.

Similar to the spate of robberies and break ind of Off Lucenses snd pubseh!! All the criminals robbing booze so they can undercut the government eh?

Cop on!!

Garda now admit state has lost war on drugs

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