Garda now admit state has lost war on drugs

Sunnyisland · 18-11-2012 10:55AM #1

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gangs-rake-in-cash-as-war-on-drugs-fails-to-halt-trade-3296848.html

EXPERIENCED gardai now privately admit that the State has lost the war against illegal drugs which has fuelled the murderous organised criminal culture of the past 20 years.

Commenting on the recent discovery of cannabis grow houses across Ireland, a senior garda said that the cultivation of the plants had become an "epidemic".

Gardai say that since cannabis began arriving in significant amounts in the Sixties and harder drugs like heroin and cocaine appeared in the Seventies and Eighties, they have lost the war against drugs. One garda asked the same question which Mr Flanagan, TD and self-confessed user, has been asking: "What's the point of us busting people for grass? Couldn't we legalise it and tax it?"

So can we ? It would take a lot of the violence from the drug gangs and create Jobs and tax income, Will Ireland take the huge step and decriminalise class b/c drugs ?

SEPT 23 1989 · 18-11-2012 10:58AM

I am losing the war on this hangover:(

cup of tea · 18-11-2012 11:00AM

I think it should be legalised.Could either raise the governments income or reduce taxes in other areas. The older generation would never approve so realistically your probably talking 20/30 years

mikemac1 · 18-11-2012 11:04AM

The industrial-scale grow houses are organised by Chinese Triad gangs who use enslaved labourers, usually Chinese or Vietnamese nationals, to tend to the plants.

Some of those arrested were working to pay off gambling debts or were recruited with the promise of payments of as little as €1,500 a month on delivery of their crop.

This sort of issue should be reported on more.
I never heard of the Triad gangs in Ireland

And deportations to follow when they get this sorted

slavetothegrind · 18-11-2012 11:05AM

i'll trade you the legalisation you wish if you allow me direct the judiciary to remove use/abuse of drugs/alcahol as an excuse or mitigating factor in any illegal behaviour.

18-11-2012 11:06AM

slavetothegrind wrote: »

i'll trade you the legalisation you wish if you allow me direct the judiciary to remove use/abuse of drugs/alcahol as an excuse or mitigating factor in any illegal behaviour.

I doubt you'd find many in favour of legalisation who wouldn't be in favour of that. Us people are generally very much in favour of personal responsibility.

Death and Taxes · 18-11-2012 11:08AM

slavetothegrind wrote: »

i'll trade you the legalisation you wish if you allow me direct the judiciary to remove use/abuse of drugs/alcahol as an excuse or mitigating factor in any illegal behaviour.

Use or abuse of alcohol is not allowed as a mitigating factor in sentencing as it is.

Sunnyisland · 18-11-2012 11:10AM

mikemac1 wrote: »

This sort of issue should be reported on more.
I never heard of the Triad gangs in Ireland

And deportations to follow when they get this sorted

Its all happening in the Underworld

You have to look down to see it

slavetothegrind · 18-11-2012 11:13AM

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Use or abuse of alcohol is not allowed as a mitigating factor in sentencing as it is.

i did not know that!
i did witness a chap in court who admitted to fighting in a chipper and resisting arrest get away scot free with a warning where as the next chap who was accused of not having current insurance on a new vehicle ( and produced evidence to say he had) get a 300 euro fine because he didn't have it displayed.
my assumption had been that the judge allowed for the other lad being drunk.

i learn something new every day!

Sunnyisland · 18-11-2012 11:33AM

slave to the grind wrote: »

i did not know that!
i did witness a chap in court who admitted to fighting in a chipper and resisting arrest get away scot free with a warning where as the next chap who was accused of not having current insurance on a new vehicle ( and produced evidence to say he had) get a 300 euro fine because he didn't have it displayed.
my assumption had been that the judge allowed for the other lad being drunk.

i learn something new every day!

I hope he appealed as that sounds very harsh and would be unusual if you say what happened is true.

slavetothegrind · 18-11-2012 11:40AM

it's true realies, it was me!

i didn't even get the oppertunity to speak!

judge addressed the garda who told him all was in order i just hadn't got an insurance disk in the window as i hadn't got it yet
then in a millisecond gavel strikes wood and i'm 300 euro poorer
didn't even look at me
im not small and was one of the few in a suit in the courtroom, the only one standing up!

i'm a tad bitter, reckon i should have gone in a tracksuit and said i was off me biccie at the time.....

i didn't appeal because i was guilty of non display, even though insured, and i really believe it wopuld have gone against me as there seems to be an attitude of "you know better" for ordinary decent people, and "what would you expect" for scum.

Sunnyisland · 18-11-2012 11:45AM

slavetothegrind wrote: »

it's true realies, it was me!

i didn't even get the oppertunity to speak!

judge addressed the garda who told him all was in order i just hadn't got an insurance disk in the window as i hadn't got it yet
then in a millisecond gavel strikes wood and i'm 300 euro poorer
didn't even look at me
im not small and was one of the few in a suit in the courtroom, the only one standing up!

i'm a tad bitter, reckon i should have gone in a tracksuit and said i was off me biccie at the time.....

:eek: And did you appeal ?

the purple tin · 18-11-2012 11:55AM

A "war" on drugs cannot be won. Look at Mexico ffs. The amount of drugs being smuggled around the world every day is just mind blowing. Those bales of coke that washed up in Cork were worth 440 mil and that was just one shipment! Imagine how much of the stuff is getting through.

LostBoy101 · 18-11-2012 11:58AM

Legalising drugs is like a receipe for disaster. Take long-term marijuana smoking for example, does increasing tax stop them from smoking? No because it's addictive and this will apply to dangerous illegal drugs.

The only way to prevent big amount of drugs coming in is to increase the security strictness on the harbours.

bedrock#1 · 18-11-2012 12:05PM

LostBoy101 wrote: »

Legalising drugs is like a receipe for disaster. Take long-term marijuana smoking for example, does increasing tax stop them from smoking? No because it's addictive and this will apply to dangerous illegal drugs.

The only way to prevent big amount of drugs coming in is to increase the security strictness on the harbours.

How will we pay for that? Would a dwindling supply not drive up prices and as a result drive up demand and profit motive thereby making dealers more desperate to control the market?? I love these quick fix solutions that people just throw up here without actually thinking them through.

If you bothered to read the article that is linked in the OP you would see that when a shipment is seized the repercussions for thousands of people are enormous from suicide, murder, severe beatings and massive debts on the families of those who are caught up in the black market economics of the drug trade.

Sunnyisland · 18-11-2012 12:08PM

LostBoy101 wrote: »

Legalising drugs is like a recipe for disaster. Take long-term marijuana smoking for example, does increasing tax stop them from smoking? No because it's addictive and this will apply to dangerous illegal drugs.

The only way to prevent big amount of drugs coming in is to increase the security strictness on the harbours.

The US and many other countries spend billions of dollars/pounds/rubles in there fight against drugs importation and even they admit there war on drugs is lost,New ways have to be introduced to combat the growing power drugs gangs are getting,Taking away the vast profits from the drug deals is one way that must be tried.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=us%20loese%20war%20on%20drugs&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CEQQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2012%2F07%2F04%2Fbusiness%2Fin-rethinking-the-war-on-drugs-start-with-the-numbers.html%3Fpagewanted%3Dall&ei=d8GoULyvIoewhAe2s4HABQ&usg=AFQjCNEAWkVgznPEdfqTqKqf1vwh15Rdxw

KilOit · 18-11-2012 12:08PM

slavetothegrind wrote: »

it's true realies, it was me!

i didn't even get the oppertunity to speak!

judge addressed the garda who told him all was in order i just hadn't got an insurance disk in the window as i hadn't got it yet
then in a millisecond gavel strikes wood and i'm 300 euro poorer
didn't even look at me
im not small and was one of the few in a suit in the courtroom, the only one standing up!

i'm a tad bitter, reckon i should have gone in a tracksuit and said i was off me biccie at the time.....

i didn't appeal because i was guilty of non display, even though insured, and i really believe it wopuld have gone against me as there seems to be an attitude of "you know better" for ordinary decent people, and "what would you expect" for scum.

Can't believe that went to court.
Complete waste of time and money

kupus · 18-11-2012 12:12PM

War on drugs is a waste of valuable time and money....

Management of drugs would be a lot better, set up drug shops/head shops and use the tax take to open drug addiction services right beside them.
Im talking about weed on this one.^^

Weed shops are one thing but coke heroin no. Decriminalise it, set up places where junkies can get their fix in a clean safe environment, all the while blasting them with addiction services.
This cuts down on hiv and other infectious diseases.... and some of these may start to use the services to get on the road to help.

All the above takes a lot of power from the dealers, it gives an extra injection of money for tax, and creates more employment with drug rehab centers.
Ireland may become a much sought after tourist destination, bringing money in from abroad.....and of course these people will need to catered to as well.

Only problem is the friggin NIMBY brigade and their never ending crusades to do right by themselves and themselves only.

kupus · 18-11-2012 12:18PM

LostBoy101 wrote: »

Legalising drugs is like a receipe for disaster. Take long-term marijuana smoking for example, does increasing tax stop them from smoking? No because it's addictive and this will apply to dangerous illegal drugs.

The only way to prevent big amount of drugs coming in is to increase the security strictness on the harbours.

Weed is not addictive...the person smoking it is....which is why I would like to see a drug rehab place beside every drug shop if it ever came to pass.

Grayson · 18-11-2012 12:20PM

LostBoy101 wrote: »

Legalising drugs is like a receipe for disaster. Take long-term marijuana smoking for example, does increasing tax stop them from smoking? No because it's addictive and this will apply to dangerous illegal drugs.

The only way to prevent big amount of drugs coming in is to increase the security strictness on the harbours.

marajuana is hardly addictive. caffine is more physically addictive than marajuana. And it's not like marajuana smokers keep taking more and more until they're found overdosed in an alley surrounded by doritos.

Legalise it already. It'd take millions out of the hand of criminal organisations. And that money would go to private enterprise and also the government in the form of taxation. I don't know anyone who doesn't smoke marajuana because it's illegal. I haven't smoked in a while, but I know if I wanted some tonight I could get in contact with a few perfectly respectable people who would be able to procure some for me.
It's sooo easy to get. And the mad thing is that it accounts for most of the drug money in the country. The number of people who have purchased/smoked it is well into the hundreds of thousands. And it's far more than cocaine or heroin. Legalising marajuana will remove so much money from the drug trade.

make it possible to obtain a growing licence and a retail licence. Also make it legal to own up to 6 plants at home.

Wacker The Attacker · 18-11-2012 12:21PM

How long did it take them to figure this one out?

Wacker The Attacker · 18-11-2012 12:23PM

cup of tea wrote: »

I think it should be legalised.Could either raise the governments income or reduce taxes in other areas. The older generation would never approve so realistically your probably talking 20/30 years

Do you think the "older generation" realise that gangland murders aren't just happening for the craic?

kincsem · 18-11-2012 12:28PM

This legalise drugs and tax it idea is not sensible. Cigarettes are legal and taxed but criminals sell untaxed cigarettes.
If drugs are legalised criminals will supply untaxed drugs as they do now, but drugs will be more acceptable, it will be a bigger market with bigger turf wars with more guns.

The Gardai want more resources because they are losing the "war" on the "front line". The hospitals are underfunded, and look, we have people on trolleys.

Never ask a barber if you want a haircut.

Tom_Cruise · 18-11-2012 12:29PM

Weed/Hash is just as easy to get as ciggs and alcohol, i never though of it as illegal really (i know it is technically) but the amount of people who use it is insane and from my knowledge users aren't your typical criminal minded thieving junkie. Legalise it, see how it works. Its obvious the system we have in place now doesnt work so take a different approach.

bedrock#1 · 18-11-2012 12:38PM

kincsem wrote: »

This legalise drugs and tax it idea is not sensible. Cigarettes are legal and taxed but criminals sell untaxed cigarettes.
If drugs are legalised criminals will supply untaxed drugs as they do now, but drugs will be more acceptable, it will be a bigger market with bigger turf wars with more guns.

The Gardai want more resources because they are losing the "war" on the "front line". The hospitals are underfunded, and look, we have people on trolleys.

Never ask a barber if you want a haircut.

The government have reached a point of diminishing returns on cigarettes. The tax is TOO high.

Alcohol has been legal in the US for about 80 years now since prohibition yet you don't see bootleggers fighting over the moonshine market.....

nevaeh-2die-4 · 18-11-2012 12:40PM

i for one would not like to see drugs legal ,i don't want to see 300 rehab centres set up across the country because we have decided to drop the law and contribute to the downfall of Irish society

i have children and don't want them exposed to this crap, imagine if weed was legal that's all you would smell when you walk around town if we sell it in shops..

i lived next door to someone who smoked weed all day, the smell inside my house was sicking, the smell would come into my children's bedroom,there room became un usable as the smell was so strong. thankfully i left, but this is what your up against, some people might be ok with this I'm not.

Drugs dealers will undercut the price and you will get more for you money, the drug dealers will always win.they will also benefit from the relaxed laws.

Every time these threads come up people say tax it, why introduce more drugs for the sake of money, its not as if we would ever see anything from tax, we will see tax increases and property taxes each year

I know my opinion wont go down well with the pro druggies, I'm not "backing up my facts" its just my opinion like or lump it.

not matter happens nobody will win the drug war with that said it doesnt mean we have to change our laws.

i await the back lash of my "joe Duffy brigade" view

mikemac1 · 18-11-2012 12:45PM

Joe Duffy doesn't care

He interviewed Moore St sellers with their smuggled cigarettes and sure aren't times hard, trying to make a few pound, keep the wolf from the door.
These are my little people, salt of da earth.

Didn't care much about head shops around Dublin
But when one was near to Clontarf he let loose. Just won't do in leafy Clontarf, keep these shops to the inner city.

And that's what will happen here.

Go ahead and legalize it and the sellers will stay where they are

300 rehab centres around Ireland? They will all be in the very worst areas of town.

danslevent · 18-11-2012 12:47PM

If we don't even have abortion legalised or gay marriage, then I think it will be a very, very long time before we see the legalisation of weed here. We can hope, we can dream but I don't see it happening in my life time!

Grayson · 18-11-2012 12:47PM

kincsem wrote: »

This legalise drugs and tax it idea is not sensible. Cigarettes are legal and taxed but criminals sell untaxed cigarettes.
If drugs are legalised criminals will supply untaxed drugs as they do now, but drugs will be more acceptable, it will be a bigger market with bigger turf wars with more guns.

The Gardai want more resources because they are losing the "war" on the "front line". The hospitals are underfunded, and look, we have people on trolleys.

Never ask a barber if you want a haircut.

So, there are probably just shy of a million smokers in this country. But there are illegal cigarette imports too. maybe a percent or so of smokers buy illegally imported cigarettes from criminal gangs (We won't include someone who brings back a carton of smokes and sells them to a friend. It might be illegal, but it's hardly supporting a criminal gang or contributing to gangland crime).

If I get this right, your idea is that legalising marajuana won't solve the problem because cigarettes are currently sold illegally.
Think of it this way. If tobacco were made illegal, the same way marajuana is, then that would be a million smokers all paying money to criminal gangs for tobacco. That would amount to billions of euros per year all going to criminal gangs.

So you're right, there's absolutely no difference between legalising tobacco or not. The same as there's no difference between legalising marajuana or not.

For what it's worth, I hardly smoke marajuana. But if I did, I'd still walk into a shop and buy some rather than hanging around a street corner trying to save a fiver and buy off some shady guy.

Grayson · 18-11-2012 12:49PM

nevaeh-2die-4 wrote: »

I know my opinion wont go down well with the pro druggies, I'm not "backing up my facts" its just my opinion like or lump it.

God damn facts always ruin a good opinion.

cometogether · 18-11-2012 12:50PM

nevaeh-2die-4 wrote: »

i for one would not like to see drugs legal ,i don't want to see 300 rehab centres set up across the country because we have decided to drop the law and contribute to the downfall of Irish society

i have children and don't want them exposed to this crap, imagine if weed was legal that's all you would smell when you walk around town if we sell it in shops..

i lived next door to someone who smoked weed all day, the smell inside my house was sicking, the smell would come into my children's bedroom,there room became un usable as the smell was so strong. thankfully i left, but this is what your up against, some people might be ok with this I'm not.

Drugs dealers will undercut the price and you will get more for you money, the drug dealers will always win.they will also benefit from the relaxed laws.

Every time these threads come up people say tax it, why introduce more drugs for the sake of money, its not as if we would ever see anything from tax, we will see tax increases and property taxes each year

I know my opinion wont go down well with the pro druggies, I'm not "backing up my facts" its just my opinion like or lump it.

not matter happens nobody will win the drug war with that said it doesnt mean we have to change our laws.

i await the back lash of my "joe Duffy brigade" view

Yeah, I mean why bother doing something silly like that

Garda now admit state has lost war on drugs

Comments