Paddy Power jokers

Juwwi · 16-11-2012 1:32pm #1

Any opinions on this.

Last night I placed an in running bet on the NFL of Buffalo Bills -3 at 4/5.

the bet won and got paid.

today I get an email saying the price was wrong and it should of been 8/15
so they re-adjusted my account and paid out at 8/15.

they are saying in their rules they are covered for obvious errors.
how could 4/5 and 8/15 be an obvious error.

Dear Customer,

Due to a technical problem, the price displayed on the Handicap Betting in the above match was incorrect. In accordance with our rules, we are obliged to correct these odds as follows:

Correct Odds - 8/15

Our rules state:

'We cannot allow for mistakes, nor accept responsibility for any errors or omissions in respect of the announcing, publishing, or marking of prices, runners, times or result, despite every effort to ensure their accuracy. Paddy Power reserves the right to correct any obvious errors'.

'If there are any blatant errors in prices transmitted bets will be settled at the correct price at the time of acceptance or the Starting Price (where applicable) whichever is the greater. We also reserve the right to void any bets where there has been a blatant error in prices'.

Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this has caused you. For a complete list of our betting rules please consult the help menu on the Paddy Power homepage.

If you have any further queries please click here to avail of our Live Help or send us a Tweet to @AskPaddyPower.

Kind Regards
Steven
Paddy Power Escalation Managment Team

super_furry · 16-11-2012 1:34pm

Can't see how they can claim that's an 'obvious error' at all.

mickmc7 · 16-11-2012 1:42pm

I did the same bet, haven't heard anything back. Doesn't even make sense, the handicap price is always in and around evens 10/11 etc, don't know where they're getting 8/15 from.

mickmc7 · 16-11-2012 1:44pm

Sorry, just noticed "in running" in your original post. That makes more sense

Fizman · 16-11-2012 1:56pm

To be honest.....I have a big problem with their terminology there!

The only 'obvious error' here is contained within their software system. It doesn't bode well for them......how are customers supposed to have confidence in their live trading if this kind of this is even possible?

Juwwi · 16-11-2012 2:45pm

I rang customer serices earlier saying l felt this was unfair
and got no know where with the guy l spoke to who suggested if lm not happy l could bring the case the IBAS .

If the 4/5 -3 was wrong that means anyone who backed the +3 at around 1/1 backed something that should of been bigger.

If the -3 had of losing l wonder would everyone who backed the +3
would of getting an email today saying you backed +3 at 1/1 but it should of been 11/8 heres your extra winnings.

Howjoe1 · 16-11-2012 2:52pm

Really shoddy stuff from PP on this one.

If it had of been a pre-event bet, then ok, it might have been clearly priced up wrong.

But given the fluidity of an in-running market and the margin difference it seems totally lousy on PP's part.

Saying, "go to IBAS" is the same as them saying "F*/# off" imho.

And yes, if the slight error in odds was in the customer's favour, you can be darn sure you would have heard nothing from PP.

bootybouncer · 16-11-2012 9:01pm

they are utter *****....................ive switched to boyles, a tad better, cple of minor issues on in runnings too..............................but paddy powers, the ultimate *****, undercover boss proved this along with the irish fat round smiling wanker who does all the promotions

okidoki987 · 16-11-2012 10:48pm

If the 4/5 -3 was wrong that means anyone who backed the +3 at around 1/1 backed something that should of been bigger.

And I wondered how bookies always make money? :rolleyes:

Probably going to hard to find someone who backed +3 in running.

Juwwi · 16-11-2012 10:56pm

okidoki987 wrote: »

And I wondered how bookies always make money? :rolleyes:

Probably going to hard to find someone who backed +3 in running.

I dont understand what you mean?

One team was -3 and the other was +3 what makes you think
no one backed the +3 team?

okidoki987 · 17-11-2012 2:07am

What I mean is it will be hard to find someone who backed the +3 at evens.
If you can and the price they backed it at was evens, you could bring that back to PP and said if the other side was evens, there is a problem here as your price would be 4/5 (or there abouts).
If the price was 11/8, then you know you are on at 8/15.

JoeCole26 · 17-11-2012 1:38pm

Same thing happened to m a few weeks back, bet on a football match, next team to score next, won, expected winnings to hit my account and they had greatly reduced the odds. Rang them but got nowhere. Shower of pr1cks. Bad mouthed them on Twitter, bad publicity for them made me feel that little bit better.

Still,how they get away with this is beyond me. I said to him, "that's funny because I made a mistake also, I meant to bet €20" instead of €20, can you give me the difference?" - of course not, terms and conditions are firmly in their favour.

Some day someone is going to get the chance to absolutely screw PP and I hope they take it with both hands. What comes around goes around.

Howjoe1 · 17-11-2012 8:52pm

Robbie,

Just reading their statement again, in particular:

"Dear Customer,

Due to a technical problem.....we are obliged to correct these odds as follows:"

Fact: they are NOT "obliged" to correct it. They are "choosing" (i.e. making a deliberate choice) to change it for their sole benefit ....

and don't give a **** about screwing the customer!

Dicky Pride · 18-11-2012 5:04pm

Paddy Power are where they are today because of their marketing team. Their website and apps are the poorest performing in the industry, their customer service is well below par, but their main clientele are the idiots that you see lapping up all the crap on their facebook page. They'd do anything for a free tenner bet. Serious punters do not bet with Paddy Power.

BorneTobyWilde · 18-11-2012 5:11pm

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Paddy Power are where they are today because of their marketing team. Their website and apps are the poorest performing in the industry, their customer service is well below par, but their main clientele are the idiots that you see lapping up all the crap on their facebook page. They'd do anything for a free tenner bet. Serious punters do not bet with Paddy Power.

Where do they bet, and who makes money betting?

Dicky Pride · 18-11-2012 5:17pm

Who makes money betting? About 1% of the people who bet.

Some people will dispute that figure but I think it's accurate enough.

Bookmakers like Paddy Power are for small punters, the ones who fully expect to lose their money by doing accumulators and scorecast bets. The latest one is this score or bore bet which ever punter seems to be doing lately and very few are winning on a regular basis, and if they are winning the prices are ridiculous.

The people that are making money gambling are the people that who study the most and bet the least. I personally believe there is no future in gambling on horses (unless you are an owner or a trainer and only have 1 or 2 bets a year).

Gambling is fine as a weekend hobby if you're spending 10 or 20 quid on it but nobody can realistically make money from it as a long term money making proposition.

To answer your question about what bookies to use...well it's whatever one has the best prices on the event that you are most sure about. That's rarely paddy power tbh.

dave3004 · 19-11-2012 11:41am

i can tell ya whats happened. Whoever's been doing the in running NFL has fcuked up.

I (Typo most likely) and has to void/amend all bets on this fcuk up..... prob b4 the boss spots it

sham69 · 19-11-2012 11:56am

I had a bet on Alonso each way in the F1 yesterday.
Bet is still saying pending?
What takes them so long.
Its fairly straight forward , i had him each way he came third?
They pay on the first 4..
I just don't get it.
I also had the same bet on Schumacher but they put that one down as a loss straight away...

19-11-2012 12:03pm

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Where do they bet, and who makes money betting?

Casual punters who don't make money but are smart enough to want a good price when they do win: Bet365

People who make money betting: exchanges

every bookie screws people on ts and cs, you can't really escape it.

sham69 · 19-11-2012 2:56pm

it gets better...
I emailed to see what was going on with the bet.
I got told that it was a losing bet as they only pay out on 1st and second.
I go to their site, it still has reference to top 3 ( I thought it was top 4 to be honest but I got third so doesnt matter).
I ring them and girl puts me on hold to check.
She admits that she can see reference to top 3 but will have to get on to the pay department or whatever.
I should get a call in the next 24 hours.
Plenty of time to change the rules again.
I have to say I am very annoyed as I read the terms before I bet, I wouldn't have gone near the bet if I had thought it was only top 2.
I have bet on F1 before and it was always top 3/4

Colonel Sanders · 19-11-2012 3:05pm

Power are a joke. I've noticed they're getting more ire than anyone else on Betfair lately (Spoils used to be in 1st place on that score)

All these errors & bet adjustments. I've asked plenty of people but have yet to come across a case. Has anyone ever had a LOSING bet voided or T&C's changed post having the bet?

okidoki987 · 20-11-2012 9:37am

That's rarely paddy power tbh.

They are in the 1st 2 or 3 every week with their prices of the Top 5/6 Teams in the PL with Hills and BetVictor.

Dicky Pride · 20-11-2012 9:58am

okidoki987 wrote: »

They are in the 1st 2 or 3 every week with their prices of the Top 5/6 Teams in the PL with Hills and BetVictor.

Their marketing team will insist that they be competitive with the most high profile bets, otherwise known as the ones that bring them most return.

okidoki987 · 20-11-2012 11:41am

I'd say it would be the ones that would take the most number of bets?

sham69 · 20-11-2012 12:12pm

Well, they wouldnt pay out on my bet.
They said that before race qualifying they pay out on the top 3.
After qualifying they only pay out on 1st and second.
I am 100% sure that my receipt said top 3 but I have no way of proving it.
The receipt after the best is done doesnt show all the details (conveniently)
I have told them of my disappointment and asked them to close the account.
I will go with bet365 or something.
I don't even bet that often, a few football bets here and there and F1 and darts.
Never horse racing.
I'm sure I will be no loss to them as a customer...

montyrebel · 20-11-2012 1:13pm

any e/w bet i have ever done on a proper F1 race, not qualifying has been only 1st and 2nd.

as they also offer odds on podium finishes etc, seems fair enough to me

sham69 · 20-11-2012 2:30pm

I have no problem with the rules as they state them.
The point I was making was the receipt was saying 1,2,3.
It took them till 5pm yesterday to clarify the situation.
I have no problem with their explanation but if they had just said there was an issue with the receipt (which there seems there was) and apologised I would have accepted it and moved on.
I got 5 different explanations from 5 different people.
I have closed the account and opened a bet365 account.
Case closed

UrbanSea · 20-11-2012 3:45pm

While PP are clearly in the wrong here, I'm not with the general consensus on thread with everyone hating them.

Anyone backing horses with them can see they can be more than fair. They refunded ante post bets on Darlan when he missed the Racing Post at the weekend (despite a huge gamble in the last few weeks) as well as bets on Sprinter Sacre, a long odds on favourite.

A well backed 5/4 favourite today at Falkenham took the wrong course coming into the straight when he was about to win easily. PP paying out on him as a winner as well as the winner.

I'm sick of reading about just how magical 365 are, people practically frothing at the mouth and masturbating over them while Powers are seen as the devil. All bookies have faults and good traits. Power's have more good traits in my interested area

Colonel Sanders · 20-11-2012 3:57pm

Urban

The point I've often made is why not take a small fraction of the money they give back to punters (most of which I see is in mug markets on football) & actually lay punters the odd bet?

How can they close anyone who's half successful in an instant yet literally give money away each day in their shops?

I actually asked them some of the above questions is quite a heated exchange with their customer service. I was basically told to f*ck off

UrbanSea · 20-11-2012 6:12pm

I'm not familiar with what bookies are worse for closing accounts, but at the end of the day any bookie will close consistently profitable accounts and PP are one of the busiest and can easily afford such luxuries, hence the exchanges have the biggest punters generally

Colonel Sanders · 20-11-2012 9:51pm

UrbanSea wrote: »

I'm not familiar with what bookies are worse for closing accounts, but at the end of the day any bookie will close consistently profitable accounts and PP are one of the busiest and can easily afford such luxuries, hence the exchanges have the biggest punters generally

Powers have closed a lot of people I know over peanuts. It's also been a case that when a losing account starts to make inroads into their losses out comes the clamp

I'm of the opinion any bookmaker should have to stipulate the reason for an account closure, just arbitrarily clamping & hiding behind "traders decision" is completely unacceptable. Why close Punter A over peanuts then any time a camera is put near a rep claim they're laying Punter B 6 figure bets. I love when they say "the faces are backing it" or "all the right people are backing it". FFS they'd have closed down any such individual long ago

I'm any bookmaker in Ireland should have to lay an advertised price to ANYONE to a certain amount. That amount to be independently decided using such variables as market share in the country & % of turnover from that sport

okidoki987 · 21-11-2012 12:13am

Bookies close accounts when you are winning or back "arbs/Best price (Betfair v Bookie = Profit).
No bookie will lay "Massive" bets unless their liabilities suit the bet.
Margin used to be around 12-14% so all a bookie wants (or needs) is the turnover to get their 14%.
Some bookies will close an account quicker then others but depends on the bets.
Always try and put a couple of "mug" bets in there, works wonders for your account. :rolleyes:

okidoki987 · 21-11-2012 12:15am

I'm any bookmaker in Ireland should have to lay an advertised price to ANYONE to a certain amount. That amount to be independently decided using such variables as market share in the country & % of turnover from that sport

Quickest way of sending an independent to the wall.

Colonel Sanders · 21-11-2012 8:48am

okidoki987 wrote: »

Quickest way of sending an independent to the wall.

Their turnover would be quite small relative to the multiples, hence their guaranteed liability would also be quite small

Wishful Thinking · 21-11-2012 3:09pm

UrbanSea wrote: »

While PP are clearly in the wrong here, I'm not with the general consensus on thread with everyone hating them.

Anyone backing horses with them can see they can be more than fair. They refunded ante post bets on Darlan when he missed the Racing Post at the weekend (despite a huge gamble in the last few weeks) as well as bets on Sprinter Sacre, a long odds on favourite.

A well backed 5/4 favourite today at Falkenham took the wrong course coming into the straight when he was about to win easily. PP paying out on him as a winner as well as the winner.

I'm sick of reading about just how magical 365 are, people practically frothing at the mouth and masturbating over them while Powers are seen as the devil. All bookies have faults and good traits. Power's have more good traits in my interested area

Sorry Urban, they only do those type of offers when they can maximise publicity. They only pay out early, refund etc when they know they can get their mugs in the papers loads and gain more in publicity than the actual payout.

Yesterdays horse racing episode was a case in point. They only did so as it was relatively small racing and they'd get a plug on the Racing Post as the good guys compared to WH, Ladbrokes etc

They are fantastic at marketing and have people actually believing they're great odds. Again they'll only do it on big events for marketnig purposes. Day to day they bet to bigger percentages than Bet365, stan james etc

21-11-2012 3:14pm

UrbanSea wrote: »

While PP are clearly in the wrong here, I'm not with the general consensus on thread with everyone hating them.

Anyone backing horses with them can see they can be more than fair. They refunded ante post bets on Darlan when he missed the Racing Post at the weekend (despite a huge gamble in the last few weeks) as well as bets on Sprinter Sacre, a long odds on favourite.

A well backed 5/4 favourite today at Falkenham took the wrong course coming into the straight when he was about to win easily. PP paying out on him as a winner as well as the winner.

I'm sick of reading about just how magical 365 are, people practically frothing at the mouth and masturbating over them while Powers are seen as the devil. All bookies have faults and good traits. Power's have more good traits in my interested area

They are good about refunds and it's not all about publicity. If it was Fakenham would be the wrong place! But the cost of those gestures is dwarfed by the difference in margin between themselves and 365.

I'm a bit of a saturday afternoon punter tbh (don't see the point of betting on what I can't watch) and on TV racing 365 are effectively negative margin these days with GPs and matching competitor prices on all selections. Big difference.

For the record in my experience NO bookie is worse than 365 for ts and cs and closing winning accounts, so I'm not saying it's all good.

21-11-2012 3:19pm

okidoki987 wrote: »

Bookies close accounts when you are winning

This isn't really true.

Imagine a mug signs up online and clicks a goliath for 100k. Do you think the bookies would close him down or wait to get it back?

They have ways of identifying bad business. Number 1 is arbs as you mention, second would be consistently backing warm horses early that come in before the off. Third would be a staking pattern that suggests contact with a particular yard.

Just winning on what they can see are random bets is pretty much irrelevant.

FWIW, they have to close accounts. If they didn't they'd all go to the wall tomorrow given how bent the horse racing world is.

Colonel Sanders · 21-11-2012 3:22pm

Its a shame there's not a horse racing bookmaker out there who doesn't do gimmicks & publicity & just lays bets.

A few people (who'd be far bigger punters than I am) say Pinnicle are excellent on Sports. you wont get a free bet on opening, you won't get money back specials but you'll get on to large amounts & they won't close you if you're not a mug. Their margins are low too (102% on Premiership football). they don't do racing however.

Take the amount Powers give away in gimmicky specials each year. Why don't they take 10% of this sum & use it to lay bets rather than just closing anyone who has even half a clue

okidoki987 · 21-11-2012 6:27pm

102% on Premiership football

:eek: That's insane.
PP, Hills & BetVictor are around 106% on a Friday night for PL matches.
Most are around 108-111%, thankfully not too many 111% any more.

Best on course bookie for laying bets was the guy from the North, Dessie Fox who was killed in 1990.
He would take a bet and was a gentlemen when it came to paying out.

Juwwi · 21-11-2012 10:58pm

Basketball Power Play flashing on the PP home page tonight

Orlando are 20/23 Oklahoma are 20/33 and San Antonio are 10/11

all to win enhanced to 4/1

but by taking the prices you get 4.73/1

I have backed the Power Play for a few euro at 4/1 in the hope it wins to see what it get settles at .

okidoki987 · 22-11-2012 11:55am

Looks like they've taken it down.

Juwwi · 22-11-2012 5:41pm

I placed a few quid on the above mug basketball treble at the supposedly enhanced 4/1
Low and behold it won.
Checked this morning and it was settled at 4/1 not the 4.73/1 that I would of got by just taking the normal odds.

I headed off to work happy tho as in PP's rules they say if the wrong odds are taken
"In accordance with our rules, we are obliged to correct these odds"

Home now and still only settled as 4/1 no change.

I wonder how many people just back their enhanced prices blindly without checking
what the normal odds would be and backed that last night and only got 4/1.

Strangley tho my original NFL bet has been re settled today and I have got the difference back that they took off me.
they have paid out at the 4/5.

okidoki987 · 22-11-2012 6:25pm

Home now and still only settled as 4/1 no change

I see an Email to Customer support coming.

sham69 · 26-11-2012 10:29am

sham69 wrote: »

it gets better...
I emailed to see what was going on with the bet.
I got told that it was a losing bet as they only pay out on 1st and second.
I go to their site, it still has reference to top 3 ( I thought it was top 4 to be honest but I got third so doesnt matter).
I ring them and girl puts me on hold to check.
She admits that she can see reference to top 3 but will have to get on to the pay department or whatever.
I should get a call in the next 24 hours.
Plenty of time to change the rules again.
I have to say I am very annoyed as I read the terms before I bet, I wouldn't have gone near the bet if I had thought it was only top 2.
I have bet on F1 before and it was always top 3/4

Closed my account with PP last week after this crap.
Signed up to bet365, was able to do the same bet and they paid out on top 3.
I went on to the PP site just for the laugh to see what they were offering.
Low and behold they were offering 1/5 of the odds for the top 4 on an each way bet, just the same as what they did last race (but didnt admit it)
They are a pack of fecking liars...
I will never give them a cent of my money again..

Colonel Sanders · 26-11-2012 4:57pm

sham69 wrote: »

Closed my account with PP last week after this crap.
Signed up to bet365, was able to do the same bet and they paid out on top 3.
I went on to the PP site just for the laugh to see what they were offering.
Low and behold they were offering 1/5 of the odds for the top 4 on an each way bet, just the same as what they did last race (but didnt admit it)
They are a pack of fecking liars...
I will never give them a cent of my money again..

Is there an arbitration body in Ireland like there is in the UK?

If there is go to them, e-mail the likes of HRI & every news paper if not

IMO there should be some form of betting ombudsman

okidoki987 · 27-11-2012 12:19am

Choice of IBAS which I think is the one Colonel Saunders is referring to.
You could also contact John Martin (Punters Platform) writes in the Star on a Saturday.
Don't have his detials to hand but his email & mobile are common knowledge.
Do a search and you'll find it.

27-11-2012 12:33am

Wishful Thinking wrote: »

.........

Yesterdays horse racing episode was a case in point. They only did so as it was relatively small racing and they'd get a plug on the Racing Post as the good guys compared to WH, Ladbrokes etc
............

... and the 2nd fav was chinned on the line too so they lost little anyway

sham69 · 28-11-2012 9:22am

My Mother worked in a bookies for 40 years, she said its a complete waste of time going up against these guys.
She told me that years ago prices were honored in most cases, even when the board marker made a mistake or people messed with the board and changed prices for a laugh.
At the end of the day its my word against PP.
I am just sick that they lied and blatantly had the same bet a week after mine with the odds and terms that I was fighting for.
Shocking company.

okidoki987 · 28-11-2012 2:01pm

Shocking company.

You'll find it an industry wide problem.

Gambling debts are not legally enforceable so a bookie could walk away from paying you your winnings if they so wished!
A lot of people still don't realise this and continue to go into "smaller" bookies trying to win their fortunes.

Paddy Power jokers

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