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The Hazards of Belief

18889919394334

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    The Vatican is digging in after gay marriage initiatives scored big wins this week in the US and Europe.

    It vows to never stop insisting that marriage can only be between a man and a woman.
    In a front-page article in Saturday's Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano, the Holy See sought to frame itself as the lone voice of courage in opposing initiatives to give same-sex couples legal recognition.

    In a separate Vatican Radio editorial, the pope's spokesman asked sarcastically why gay marriage proponents do not now push for legal recognition for polygamous couples as well.
    According to Catholic teaching, it holds that homosexuals should be respected and treated with dignity but that homosexual acts are "intrinsically disordered."
    The Vatican also opposes same-sex marriage, insisting on the sanctity of marriage between a man and woman as the foundation for society.

    The Vatican's anti-gay marriage media blitz came after three US states approved same-sex marriage by popular vote in the election that returned Barack Obama to the US presidency.

    Spain has upheld its gay marriage law and France has pushed ahead with legislation that could see gay marriage legalised early next year.
    L'Osservatore Romano wrote that Catholics were putting up a valiant fight to uphold church teaching in the face of "politically correct ideologies invading every culture of the world" that are backed by institutions like the United Nations, which last year passed a non-binding resolution condemning anti-gay discrimination.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1110/vatican-vows-to-fight-gay-marriage.html

    ...this is good, as it means when they see another country ignore them and carry on regardless, they'll realise how irrelevant they're becoming.


  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Overall for now they're good but anything at that level exists purely to perpetuate its own existence so I don't like it. :P


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 238 ✭✭dmw07


    Nodin wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1110/vatican-vows-to-fight-gay-marriage.html

    ...this is good, as it means when they see another country ignore them and carry on regardless, they'll realise how irrelevant they're becoming.

    Or it could force their hand into more sinister acts. They are still a very powerful cancer and if history of the church proceding teach us anything is that they manipulate their mob rule into following anything they tell them to do. Regardless of how immoral or wrong they may be.

    I expect lots of sound bites from christian politicians in the coming months denouncing same-sex marriage as an abomination.

    The church will not resist in their ideology in my opinion, for what that's worth!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    dmw07 wrote: »
    Or it could force their hand into more sinister acts. They are still a very powerful cancer and if history of the church proceding teach us anything is that they manipulate their mob rule into following anything they tell them to do. Regardless of how immoral or wrong they may be.

    I expect lots of sound bites from christian politicians in the coming months denouncing same-sex marriage as an abomination.

    The church will not resist in their ideology in my opinion, for what that's worth!
    This is true, however, they will at some point realise that a significant proportion of the people voting gay marriage in are their own flock.

    They are so desperately out of tune with there own followers, and so unused to being disobeyed that they are speeding up their own demise. Which is not a bad thing.

    MrP


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    dmw07 wrote: »
    Or it could force their hand into more sinister acts. They are still a very powerful cancer and if history of the church proceding teach us anything is that they manipulate their mob rule into following anything they tell them to do. Regardless of how immoral or wrong they may be.

    I expect lots of sound bites from christian politicians in the coming months denouncing same-sex marriage as an abomination.

    The church will not resist in their ideology in my opinion, for what that's worth!

    They most probably will resolve to more sinister acts but the beauty of it is how ineffective those acts will probably be. Thanks to print and the internet they no longer have control over the flow of information and are thus largely an impotent force in the modern world.
    Thank f*ck!


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Jernal wrote: »
    Thanks to print and the internet they no longer have control over the flow of information [...]
    That's one of the reasons why many authoritarian religions like catholicism try to keep their religious texts in a dead language - it makes it much easier to enforce their authority. In the Vatican's case, the church controlled the majority of schools, so it controlled the majority of those who learned the dead language, so it controlled most of the people who had access to the absolute knowledge described therein. That's not so much the case any more, although the Vatican does still insist that its priesthood is the only channel through which catholics can communicate accurately with their deity.

    Less authoritarian religions like protestantism didn't need to assert that central control so strongly, so they were ok with translations into local languages and viewpoints, hence the thousands of variants that exist today.

    In the memetic economy, protestantism traded a more generally-applicable product for lower product fidelity.

    It's amusing to note that the increasingly authoritarian Vatican is currently attempting to bring back the Latin mass.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,863 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    robindch wrote: »
    That's one of the reasons why many authoritarian religions like catholicism try to keep their religious texts in a dead language - it makes it much easier to enforce their authority.

    The recent RCC liturgical revisions are 'dead language'. It's English Jim but not as we know it.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    robindch wrote: »
    That's one of the reasons why many authoritarian religions like catholicism try to keep their religious texts in a dead language - it makes it much easier to enforce their authority. In the Vatican's case, the church controlled the majority of schools, so it controlled the majority of those who learned the dead language, so it controlled most of the people who had access to the absolute knowledge described therein. That's not so much the case any more, although the Vatican does still insist that its priesthood is the only channel through which catholics can communicate accurately with their deity.

    Less authoritarian religions like protestantism didn't need to assert that central control so strongly, so they were ok with translations into local languages and viewpoints, hence the thousands of variants that exist today.

    In the memetic economy, protestantism traded a more generally-applicable product for lower product fidelity.

    It's amusing to note that the increasingly authoritarian Vatican is currently attempting to bring back the Latin mass.

    I remember having a conversation with my grandmother (a mass every day woman all her life but socially very liberal even by today's standards, never mind past ages - but then she did work for RTE when Gay Byrne brought sex to Ireland) and she said that as far as she was concerned John XXIII didn't go far enough with Vat. II but she wished he hadn't brought in the vernacular Mass.
    Naturally, I was surprised by this so I asked her why - it was because she felt the need to participate when she could understand what they were saying where previously she had been able to 'ignore them doing their sacred mysteries thing down there on the alter while I spoke to my God in peace. Now it's all stand up , kneel down, mumbled meaningless automatic response and I haven't time to get my spake in.'

    I then told her she wasn't allowed to speak directly to her God, that she was obliged to speak to him only through his anointed intercessors - which came as a shock to her - and that that was one of Luther's problems with Rome.

    She considered this for a few minutes then announced ' Well, my father was a Protestant so I suppose I see my God as the same God as his God and nobody will ever prevent me from speaking to my God when I want to no matter how much oil they have had dabbed on their foreheads. Anyroad, technically It's God's mother I am talking to -as I have always said, if a person wants something done there is no point talking to the boy - talk to his mother.'


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭FouxDaFaFa


    A Christian woman was attacked on a train in Egypt. She had her hair cut off by some Muslim women and she was then pushed off the train, resulting in a broken arm.

    http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/women-assault-cut-hair-christian-woman-metro

    Apparently it's the third incident of this type in recent weeks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    THE Pope's envoy to Ireland has ruled out any possibility of the ordination of women.
    Papal Nuncio Archbishop Charles Brown said the church's teaching on the subject was clear.
    He said the Pope had spoken definitively on the subject in 1994 and the church was "simply unable to do that".
    His comments are at odds with the majority of Irish Catholics who believe women should be ordained.
    A study commissioned by the Association of Catholic Priests in February revealed that 77pc of Catholics believed women should be ordained.
    Former president Mary McAleese has also spoken out in favour of women priests and revealed recently, following the publication of her book, 'Quo Vadis? Collegiality in the Code of Cannon Law', how she was "lambasted" by the former Archbishop of Boston, Cardinal Bernard Francis Law, for her views.
    However, Dr Brown insisted it was not a question of choice but was about being "obedient and faithful to the continual tradition of the Catholic faith".
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/there-will-never-be-any-women-priests-insists-papal-nuncio-3291011.html

    We can now sleep easy, knowing that no-one without a penis will gain power in the catholic church. Because thats the important thing in life - what genitalia you were born with.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭FouxDaFaFa


    It's incredible really that the RCC has so many female followers propping the church up when it so openly treats them as if they're second-class.

    Also about the Mary McAleese thing, it is mind-boggling that that Archbishop got away with effectively scolding a sitting President like a child in front of a group of people. He must be out of his mind.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    FouxDaFaFa wrote: »
    It's incredible really that the RCC has so many female followers propping the church up when it so openly treats them as if they're second-class.

    Also about the Mary McAleese thing, it is mind-boggling that that Archbishop got away with effectively scolding a sitting President like a child in front of a group of people. He must be out of his mind.


    Of course he wasn't. He's an Arch Bishop, wears a funny costume and is the owner of a penis, while yer woman is only an elected representative and a female.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Also, i bet he was wearing a very nice party frock as well as that ridiculous pointy hat.
    Yep, he's definitely the sane one!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    An Egyptian who looks like the guy from Four Lions calls for the obliteration of Egypt's heritage:

    http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/11/12/249092.html
    Al Arabiya wrote:
    An Egyptian jihad leader, with self-professed links to the Taliban, called for the “destruction of the Sphinx and the Giza Pyramids in Egypt,” drawing ties between the Egyptian relics and Buddha statues, local media reported this week.

    Murgan Salem al-Gohary, an Islamist leader twice-sentenced under former President Hosni Mubarak for advocating violence, called on Muslims to remove such “idols.” “All Muslims are charged with applying the teachings of Islam to remove such idols, as we did in Afghanistan when we destroyed the Buddha statues,” he said on Saturday during a television interview on an Egyptian private channel, widely watched by Egyptian and Arab audiences.

    “God ordered Prophet Mohammed to destroy idols,” he added. “When I was with the Taliban we destroyed the statue of Buddha, something the government failed to do.” His comments came a day after thousands of ultraconservative Islamists gathered in Tahrir Square to call for the strict application of Sharia law in the new constitution.

    But in retaliation to Gohary’s remarks, the vice president of Tunisia’s Ennahda party, Sheikh Abdel Fattah Moro, called the live program and told Gohary that famous historic military commander Amr ibn al-Aas did not destroy statues when he conquered Egypt. “So who are you to do it?” he wondered. “The Prophet destroyed the idols because people worshiped them, but the Sphinx and the Pyramids are not worshiped.”

    Gohary, 50, is well-known in Egypt for his advocacy of violence, Egypt Independent reported. “He was sentenced twice, one of the two sentences being life imprisonment. He subsequently fled Egypt to Afghanistan, where he was badly injured in the American invasion. In 2007, he traveled from Pakistan to Syria, which then handed him over to Egypt. After Mubarak's fall in early 2011, he was released from prison by a judicial ruling,” the newspaper added.

    In recent months, fears have surfaced that the ultra-conservative Salafi political powers may soon wish to debate new guidelines over Egyptian antiquities. Islamists have swept the recent presidential and parliamentary elections in the country’s post-revolutionary stage, with the Muslim Brotherhood and the ultra-conservative Salafi Islamists rising to political power.

    “The fundamental Salafis have demanded to cover Pharaonic statues, because they regard them to be idols,” Egyptian author on ancient history Ahmed Osman told Al Arabiya English, explaining that Salafi Muslims follow conservative religious principles which view statues and sculptures as prohibited in Islam. “But so far the government has done nothing to indicate what is the future of Egyptian antiquities,” adds Osman.

    Many hope that Egypt’s new President Mohammed Mursi will help usher better preservation of Egypt’s proud cultural heritage. Egyptian officials have recently announced the country will reveal more of its ancient buried treasures. The tomb of Queen Meresankh III, the granddaughter of Khufu, of Great Pyramid fame, is set to be opened to tourists later this year, with the last resting places of five high priests also slated to be put on show.

    Officials are also believed to be reopening the underground Serapeum temple at Sakkara, to the south of Cairo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭Aenaes


    My mother has always been fond of saying they will allow priests to marry rather than allow females to wear the frock, I think she may be right.

    Regarding the Egyptian monuments, that's actual insanity. He's obviously just peed off that they had gods before the Islamic big cheese wisely decided to spread his story.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Good luck with blowing up a pyramid by the way!:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Nodin wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/there-will-never-be-any-women-priests-insists-papal-nuncio-3291011.html

    We can now sleep easy, knowing that no-one without a penis will gain power in the catholic church. Because thats the important thing in life - what genitalia you were born with.

    Reported as:
    "His comments are at odds with the majority of Irish Catholics who believe women should be ordained."

    Should it not be a case of:
    "The majority of Irish Catholics hold opinions about ordaining women that are at odds with the Catholic Church."

    It kind of annoys me how people can be so completely against the Church's teachings/rules but still consider themselves Cathollic. They are so arrogant that they, rather than admit that they probably shouldn't be Catholics, want the Church to change to suit them as if it is some sort of Democracy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Good luck with blowing up a pyramid by the way!:D

    According to Age of Empires if you hit one with your sword enough it would eventually go on fire, before exploding.


  • Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    Galvasean wrote: »
    According to Age of Empires if you hit one with your sword enough it would eventually go on fire, before exploding.

    They can prevent it by having people hammer slightly to the side of it though

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭Aenaes


    They can prevent it by having people hammer slightly to the side of it though

    Aha! Sending the helpless villagers into the warzones to repair some crappy buildings to be butcherd mercilessly by enemy cavalry. I loved that. :o
    It's after playing games like that and the Sims that really make you thankful there is no god.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Black & White. Nuff said.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    You mean if there really was a god he'd have trained us all to poop in the granary?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,669 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Man, it's been about a week since I looked at this thread. What's going on?
    Sarky wrote: »
    You mean if there really was a god he'd have trained us all to poop in the granary?

    Ah, business as usual, I see...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Sarky wrote: »
    You mean if there really was a god he'd have trained us all to poop in the granary?

    If there really was a god would he create a 'superior' species in his own image that was stupid enough to poop in the granary?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,745 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    If there really was a god would he create a 'superior' species in his own image that was stupid enough to poop in the granary?

    He allegedly created a 'superior' species that often bites the inside of its own mouth, so I'd say yes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    kylith wrote: »
    He allegedly created a 'superior' species that often bites the inside of its own mouth, so I'd say yes.

    Good point.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,540 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    Polygamist mormon wives. :eek:



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    You read these threads and you become accustomed to people dying over religious bullshít - but it's usually in some far off backwards hell hole - Galway is a bit close to home for my liking:mad:
    What a disgracefull thing to happen in a so called developed and civilised country.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭fitz0


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Lynn_Bradford

    Thomas Lynn Bradford (died February 6, 1921) of Detroit, Michigan, is most famous for committing suicide in attempt to ascertain the existence of an afterlife and communicate that information to a living accomplice, Ruth Doran. On 6 February 1921, Bradford sealed his apartment in Detroit, Michigan, blew out the pilot on his heater, and turned on the gas, which was successful in killing him.

    Some weeks earlier, Bradford had sought a fellow spiritualist in a newspaper ad. Ruth Doran responded. The two agreed "that there was but one way to solve the mystery - two minds properly attuned, one of which must shed its earthly mantle". The New York Times ran a follow-up under the headline "Dead Spiritualist Silent."

    I guess he made the wrong call. Wouldn't a suicide send him to the wrong place though?


This discussion has been closed.
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