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Can you insurnce and drive a 'commercial' vehicle as a private user?

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  • 08-11-2012 6:11pm
    #1
    POE101
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭


    Does anyone out there own and use a 'commercial' vehicle/van as their everyday car? I am wondering if there is a cost saving in changing from a saloon car to a van (maybe SUV) as a general runaround. Are there savings to be made on tax/insurance etc?
    Tagged:


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    #2
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    POE101 wrote: »
    Does anyone out there own and use a 'commercial' vehicle/van as their everyday car? I am wondering if there is a cost saving in changing from a saloon car to a van (maybe SUV) as a general runaround. Are there savings to be made on tax/insurance etc?

    theres savings to be made on tax definitely , you can drive a 4.2 litre amazon and its still 310 a year , on insurance particularly if your young there are savings to be made but after youve a few years ncb and your 24-25 these start to drop off


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    #3
    166man
    Registered Users Posts: 6,575 ✭✭✭166man


    Legally no.

    Illegally yes.

    :)


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    #4
    POE101
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭POE101


    Thanks for quick responses...

    166man, Whats the illegal part?


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    #5
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    You cannot get commercial tax if you are not a business.


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    #6
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    POE101 wrote: »
    Thanks for quick responses...

    166man, Whats the illegal part?

    Driving one as a private user.

    Commercials are supposed to be used for commercial purposes only


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    #7
    POE101
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭POE101


    OK so I'm currently unemployed - if I register as as a sole trader 'trading as' would I be covered? or is it the case that you should actually have two vehicles, one for business use and one for your private use?


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    #8
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    You would need to register for VAT and income tax as a business.


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    #9
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Stheno wrote: »
    Driving one as a private user.

    Commercials are supposed to be used for commercial purposes only
    Not an issue if you have private tax.


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    #10
    puzzle factory
    Registered Users Posts: 567 ✭✭✭puzzle factory


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    You would need to register for VAT and income tax as a business.

    no you don't, they will ask you what you need the van for, they will give you a form to get stamped in the garda barracks and they will also loook for your prsi number, we have jeeps here on the farm and we're not registered for vat and have no problem taxing them, the only difference since they brought in the new law is you have to get a form stamped in the garda barracks the first time you tax a van and they want your prsi number.


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    #11
    POE101
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭POE101


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    You would need to register for VAT and income tax as a business.

    I think thats all part of registering as a sole trader - if so - I would not want to own (tax and insure) two vehicles, one for business use and one for private use so how does that work?


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    #12
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    Not an issue if you have private tax.

    Sorry, I meant in the context of taxing it commercially :)


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    #13
    POE101
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭POE101


    puzzle factory wrote: »
    ... they will ask you what you need the van for, they will give you a form to get stamped in the garda barracks

    Interesting - can you remember what the form was for? and are you covered to drive on public roads?


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    #14
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    puzzle factory wrote: »
    no you don't, they will ask you what you need the van for, they will give you a form to get stamped in the garda barracks and they will also loook for your prsi number, we have jeeps here on the farm and we're not registered for vat and have no problem taxing them, the only difference since they brought in the new law is you have to get a form stamped in the garda barracks the first time you tax a van and they want your prsi number.
    They obviously do things differently in the kingdom. ;)

    In the midlands, they want proof of tax registration, goods only declaration, commercial insurance etc. I couldn't be arsed with all that so just taxed privately instead.


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    #15
    puzzle factory
    Registered Users Posts: 567 ✭✭✭puzzle factory


    POE101 wrote: »
    Interesting - can you remember what the form was for? and are you covered to drive on public roads?

    why would you waste money taxing something if your going to be driving around fields? of course you are, its a form to declare that you will be only using the vechical for work related purposes.


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    #16
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    POE101 wrote: »
    Interesting - can you remember what the form was for? and are you covered to drive on public roads?
    Most likely the RF111A, Goods only declaration. This was always needed to tax as goods.


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    #17
    puzzle factory
    Registered Users Posts: 567 ✭✭✭puzzle factory


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    They obviously do things differently in the kingdom. ;)

    In the midlands, they want proof of tax registration, goods only declaration, commercial insurance etc. I couldn't be arsed with all that so just taxed privately instead.

    they ask for your insurance policy alright, but your proof of tax registration isnt needed if you look at the form, and the goods only declaration is the form you sign your name and date on and get stamped at the garda barracks


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    #18
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Try telling that to the biddies in the tax office.


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    #19
    hi5
    Registered Users Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭hi5


    It seems to vary from county to county, here are the rules in Kilkenny.

    http://www.kilkennycoco.ie/eng/Services/Motor_Tax/Taxation_of_Goods_Vehicles_and_Adapted_Goods_Vehicles.html


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    #20
    dgt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,985 ✭✭✭✭dgt


    Commercials need commercial insurance with private tax if its as an everyday car.

    I used to do that myself :)


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    #21
    Bpmull
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭Bpmull


    Basically you have to tax the van privately unless you have a vat number or are a farmer with a herd number. Thats what I heard anyway. You can't just walk in and tax a van privately not anymore. Becoming a sole trader would not solve your problem as sold traders do not have vat numbers. Just buy a small engines van and tax in privately.


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    #22
    paddysdream
    Registered Users Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Well I have taxed jeeps for the last fifteen years and have never been asked for any of the above ;ie pps number, vat number(dont have this),proof of commercial insurance(which I do have),herd number(have this).
    Have never heard first hand of people having to produce this,only second hand scare stories etc.
    Just taxed the Landcruiser last week and all I was asked for was the money and the test cert.
    Actually had last years insurance cert.(out about three weeks or so ) instead of the current one and it wasnt an issue.
    Taxed it for the first time as the current owner only two years ago and not a peep ,only have you the money plus the rip off fee for the doe cert.
    And yes,before anyone asks I do use it for everything ,even dropping the kids to school (has a childseat in the front most of the time).
    Been through a few checkpoints with one of the kids in it and never a word.All this nonsense about using during work hours only is a load of ***** as far as I can see.
    On a similar but unrelated issue I had a previous jeep insured with Hibernian (Aviva) and was assured by a senior employee(to whom I was leaving a considerable sum) that contrary to what a guard might say people sitting in the back(sans seat belts obviously) were insured and I was insured to carry them but that of course I would(could) be done for having passengers without seat belts.


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    #23
    Bpmull
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭Bpmull


    paddysdream wrote: »
    Well I have taxed jeeps for the last fifteen years and have never been asked for any of the above ;ie pps number, vat number(dont have this),proof of commercial insurance(which I do have),herd number(have this).
    Have never heard first hand of people having to produce this,only second hand scare stories etc.
    Just taxed the Landcruiser last week and all I was asked for was the money and the test cert.
    Actually had last years insurance cert.(out about three weeks or so ) instead of the current one and it wasnt an issue.
    Taxed it for the first time as the current owner only two years ago and not a peep ,only have you the money plus the rip off fee for the doe cert.

    It really depends where you are taxing it you wouldn't get away with it in kilkenny you have to provide a vat number or herd number and that's first hand my parents are always asked for a vat number when insuring there company van. Some tax offices clearly are not as strict as others.


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    #24
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,964 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Bpmull wrote: »
    or are a farmer with a herd number
    So how do the tillage farmers manage?


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    #25
    Yawns
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭Yawns


    POE101 wrote: »
    OK so I'm currently unemployed - if I register as as a sole trader 'trading as' would I be covered? or is it the case that you should actually have two vehicles, one for business use and one for your private use?

    If you register as a sole trader might that not have complications with receiving social welfare payments whilst you're unemployed?


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    #26
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    I doubt it.


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    #27
    Yawns
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭Yawns


    well he would still get money but would they not flag his pps for questioning. IE hes claiming JA but registered as a sole trader. They call him for an interview? Or are the departments still not data sharing.


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    #28
    Bpmull
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭Bpmull


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    So how do the tillage farmers manage?
    I really don't know the ins and outs of it I am not a farmer but I assume tillage farmers would be also be able to tax it commercially. I have a van and tax it privately as It is illegal to tax a commercial vehicle commercially if you are only going to use it privately. However my parents have a company and my mother said the last time she went to tax the company van she was asked for her vat number. clearly some tax offices are not as strict as others. The only reason i said about the herd number was I was talking to a farmer and he taxes his van commercially but said he is asked for his herd number.


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    #29
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,089 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Bpmull wrote: »
    Basically you have to tax the van privately unless you have a vat number or are a farmer with a herd number. Thats what I heard anyway. You can't just walk in and tax a van privately not anymore. Becoming a sole trader would not solve your problem as sold traders do not have vat numbers. Just buy a small engines van and tax in privately.

    But strange.
    Whether you are registered for VAT is not dependent if you are sole trader or not, but it depends on your turnover. Generally if you are below some threshold you don't need to register for VAT.

    I can't see why some sole trader doing small business and having small turnover without VAT number wouldn't be allowed to have commercial vehicle.


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    #30
    Bpmull
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭Bpmull


    CiniO wrote: »
    But strange.
    Whether you are registered for VAT is not dependent if you are sole trader or not, but it depends on your turnover. Generally if you are below some threshold you don't need to register for VAT.

    I can't see why some sole trader doing small business and having small turnover without VAT number wouldn't be allowed to have commercial vehicle.
    you are actually right there sorry my mistake if a business sole trader or company has a turnover above a certain threshold they can register for vat and get a vat number. I would assume if its a small sole trader without a vat number they can still tax there van as a commercial they would just have to prove to the tax office it is being used for the business.


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    #31
    paddysdream
    Registered Users Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Well in my local tax office(not far from Kilkenny!) you CAN just walk in and tax a van commercially.
    Still waiting for someone on this thread to tell us that THEY were refused tax on a van jeep etc due to an inability to provide a vat number ,herd number etc.
    I have never been asked for any of the above ,and anyways if asked can not you just give your pps number;I am sure that by the the time they get all those "computers to talk to one another" the wagon will be well worn out and residing in a scrapyard somewhere.
    Taking where I live I know lots of people who are neither farmers or sole traders who have vans jeeps etc taxed(I presume!) and have never heard any of them complaining about this issue.


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