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Calls for a tougher Budget

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2

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    #32
    Spiritual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭Spiritual


    These calls for a tougher budget are just smoke and mirrors so that when the actual budget is announced you won't feel like you have been hit as hard as you could have been.


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    #33
    Where To
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭Where To


    bluewolf wrote: »
    We don't need more taxes, we need less spending on pure sh!te
    Not true!

    Pure sh!te is a magnificent and versatile resource. . .

    Drivel on the other hand. . .


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    #34
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Tazz T wrote: »
    Create employment by building thousands of wave generators round the coast, become energy self-sufficient and sell off the surplus to the brits.
    Who will pay for this investment - and what's currently stopping them from making the investment?


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    #35
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    mkdon05 wrote: »
    What I earn is irrelevant.

    Not really, you show obvious bias, hence relevant.


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    #36
    mkdon05
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭mkdon05


    dvpower wrote: »
    That little?

    How much do you earn and in what sector?


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    #37
    Spiritual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭Spiritual


    dvpower wrote: »
    Who will pay for this investment - and what's currently stopping them from making the investment?

    They are waiting on a decision from the Credit Union about the loan. Angela and Enda have a joint account.


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    #38
    mkdon05
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭mkdon05


    sfwcork wrote: »
    So just to help me grasp this

    You think the way forward is just to flog the high earners.Aybody earning over 33k because they have more reddies?

    Yes


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    #39
    Red_Wake
    Registered Users Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭Red_Wake


    Anyone wrote: »
    What we should do is import 10,000 tonnes of sand from Iraq. We then place the sand somewhere and dig for oil.

    More intelligent than most of the suggestions in this thread.


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    #40
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    mkdon05 wrote: »
    How much do you earn and in what sector?
    Why do you ask?


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    #41
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    mkdon05 wrote: »
    I read this morning that there are calls for a tougher budget as growth figures have been downcasted. So what these morons think, is that, our economy is not growing as predicted, so lets take more money out of the peoples pocket to fix it.

    We could increase the higher rate of tax (to 46%) and decrease the lower rate (to 15%). My take on this, is that people on the higher rate would be on at least €32800 and are likely to have some disposable income (I understand this may not apply in all cases) but people on the lower rate would in turn then have some disposable income that in all likelyhood be spent in the local economy. (Im assuming that there are more people paying tax at the standard rate than the higher rate these days, so tax intake would be down this year but if the economy got a boost this would be offset by revenue generated from businesses in there tax returns.)

    A tougher budget has nothing to do with trying to fix the economy. It is all about balancing the budget.

    It is not in the nature of the lower paid to be spendthrift when they have a short term windfall. It gets squirreled away for the next rainy day.

    We have a deficit NOW. An unlikely boost in next years returns helps us now in what way exactly?


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    #42
    mkdon05
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭mkdon05


    dvpower wrote: »
    Why do you ask?

    Im curious.


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    #43
    Spiritual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭Spiritual


    mkdon05 wrote: »
    Yes

    I hope you aren't an accountant, economist or even working on a till.

    The premise of your proposal is sound in theory as long as everyone earning 33K is living in a bush and can sustain life by just breathing.


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    #44
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    mkdon05 wrote: »
    Im curious.
    Mind your own business so.


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    #45
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    mkdon05 wrote: »
    Yes they are
    If you read my full post you will see that I am saying that there are more people on the lower rate and this would free up more money for the local economy. People on the higher rate are still going to be able to contribute to the local economy. Now we have both sets spending some money in suffering businesses.

    You would see us reduce the income of the wealthy to increase the income of the poor?

    http://www.shmoop.com/images/economics/taxes/5-price-vs-quantity-graph.png

    Mathmathical proof such a system causes a loss to the economy.

    Thanks for playing.


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    #46
    sfwcork
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭sfwcork


    so are high earners not already being flleced?

    paying excess fuel costs,car tax,services overpriced,products overpriced

    so they just have money to throw away "For the craic" or for the cause

    do you live in the banana reublic?


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    #47
    donegal_road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭donegal_road


    so long as they keep paying the Anglo executives, thats the main thing


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    #48
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Tazz T wrote: »
    All we hear is cut, cut, cut. We have fragile recovery with growth forecast. Enough cutting. How about generating generating cash? Create employment by building thousands of wave generators round the coast, become energy self-sufficient and sell off the surplus to the brits.

    Only that's too intelligent for the teachers, farmers and publicans we have in government.

    Have you any idea how many decades it would take for those to pay off? Or how about the cork sized island of those things we'd need to make enough energy to be self sufficient?
    Or maybe the ma-hoos-ive upfront cost to doing so, when we can afford bugger all else?


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    #49
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    To be perfectly honest - I hope they do raise income taxes. Not because it's best for the country, but because it would make my life easier.


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    #50
    mkdon05
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭mkdon05


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    A tougher budget has nothing to do with trying to fix the economy. It is all about balancing the budget.

    It is not in the nature of the lower paid to be spendthrift when they have a short term windfall. It gets squirreled away for the next rainy day.

    We have a deficit NOW. An unlikely boost in next years returns helps us now in what way exactly?

    Do you think the budget deficit has to be corrected this year? Its a process over the next few years.

    You have to fix the economy to be able to balance the budget. In the current scenario balancing the economy is never going to happen because if you squeez the money out of the economy, there will be a need for tougher budgets year on year.

    Put initiatives in place to grow the economy, and the balancing of the budget becomes an easier task.


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    #51
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Also - is it really fair to call anyone over 33k or whatever it is a 'high earner'?

    Maybe it depends where you live, but if you're making 33k in Dublin - you'd probably feel like money was tight.


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    #52
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    mkdon05 wrote: »
    Do you think the budget deficit has to be corrected this year? Its a process over the next few years.

    You have to fix the economy to be able to balance the budget. In the current scenario balancing the economy is never going to happen because if you squeez the money out of the economy, there will be a need for tougher budgets year on year.

    Put initiatives in place to grow the economy, and the balancing of the budget becomes an easier task.

    At the current pace, it's a process of 10+ years, not a few. We'll be bust (properly IMF owns us bust) long before that at the current rate.

    Er no, you balance a budget by not spending more than you earn. Money not being spent of pure ****e is not squeezing the money out of anything. Taxation creates a mathematical waste to the economy. Taxing to spend is detrimental, not beneficial.

    Initiatives cost money we don't have, only increasing the time it would take balance the budget.


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    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mkdon05 wrote: »
    Yes

    The higher rate of tax is already extortionate and you have to earn feck all to be on it, 32800 is not high pay. Why you think its fair to even further tax people on the higher rate is beyond me. Its pure begrudgery.

    Where is the incentive to work for promotions/educate yourself more to get into better jobs when you will have to hand an unfair percentage over in tax to subsidise those on lower incomes a lot of whom don't have the same responsibilities or stresses in their jobs or have gone through years of extra education people on higher tax rates did or worse again paying for the lives of a crowd of wasters on the dole who never worked a day in their lives.

    The amount of tax and other deductions people on 32800+ pay in this country is criminal already.


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    #54
    whomitconcerns
    Registered Users Posts: 4,323 ✭✭✭whomitconcerns


    Mean salaries in Ireland are €25,183-€42,920 for women and €29,378-€54,170 for men....so how is 33k a High earner salary?


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    #55
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Long story short, people who aren't like me should shoulder the load.


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    #56
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Anyone wrote: »
    What we should do is import 10,000 tonnes of sand from Iraq. We then place the sand somewhere and dig for oil.

    If smugness were a harvestable resource, all we'd have to do is plug Burlesconi into a jenny.


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    #57
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Selah Tight Fence wrote: »
    The higher rate of tax is already extortionate and you have to earn feck all to be on it, 32800 is not high pay. Why you think its fair to even further tax people on the higher rate is beyond me. Its pure begrudgery.

    Where is the incentive to work for promotions/educate yourself more to get into better jobs when you will have to hand an unfair percentage over in tax to subsidise those on lower incomes a lot of whom don't have the same responsibilities or stresses in their jobs or have gone through years of extra education people on higher tax rates did or worse again paying for the lives of a crowd of wasters on the dole who never worked a day in their lives.

    The amount of tax and other deductions people on 32800+ pay in this country is criminal already.

    To be honest - if I were Irish and found myself unemployed I'd spend as much time on the dole as possible, get as many degrees as I wanted in whatever high-paying, in-demand field I thought was best; then I'd emigrate to a place where I can get a high-paying job with a lower cost of living and pay lower taxes.


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    #58
    donegal_road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭donegal_road


    donegal_road wrote: »
    so long as they keep paying the Anglo executives, thats the main thing

    maybe I should have started a separate thread..... thats whats wrong??


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    #59
    mkdon05
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭mkdon05


    Selah Tight Fence wrote: »
    The higher rate of tax is already extortionate and you have to earn feck all to be on it, 32800 is not high pay. Why you think its fair to even further tax people on the higher rate is beyond me. Its pure begrudgery.

    Where is the incentive to work for promotions/educate yourself more to get into better jobs when you will have to hand an unfair percentage over in tax to subsidise those on lower incomes a lot of whom don't have the same responsibilities or stresses in their jobs or have gone through years of extra education people on higher tax rates did or worse again paying for the lives of a crowd of wasters on the dole who never worked a day in their lives.

    The amount of tax and other deductions people on 32800+ pay in this country is criminal.

    Begrudgery its not. If you have read through my posts, you would see that I pay tax at the higher rate. Im trying to propose a way in which we can get money into local economies. People on higher rate will still be able to contribute, but now the lower paid would be also able to contribute. (To businesses that is.)

    If the economy stays stagnant or shrinks, peoples incomes will be reduced through taxes, less money will be spent in the economy, jobs will be lost, businesses will fail.
    Do you think there will be many jobs paying over 33k then?


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    #60
    mkdon05
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭mkdon05


    sfwcork wrote: »
    so are high earners not already being flleced?

    paying excess fuel costs,car tax,services overpriced,products overpriced

    so they just have money to throw away "For the craic" or for the cause

    do you live in the banana reublic?

    Sorry I didn't realise people on the standard rate of tax didn't have to pay excess fuel costs, car tax, services overpriced, products overpriced.

    Forget everything I said so.


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    #61
    franktheplank
    Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭franktheplank


    I think they should abolish Rent Allowance. It's another major drain on resources. So many empty houses in the country, abolish rent allowance and the cost of rent drops so poor people can afford it anyway.

    Yeah it'll piss off all those people with their rental investments but **** em, there the only people that benefit from this anyway.


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