Sean Quinn Jailed

bbam · 02-11-2012 04:22PM

HellFireClub wrote: »

There was an ECB policy position adopted that no EU bank would be let fail, and ours were the first to be exposed as completely bust! Somehow, we seemed to forget that we hadn't handed over our financial competency to the EU under Lisbon II! It was our decision to make, we unsurprisingly made a fúcking stupid decision, instead of engaging in a round of international people pleasing, we should have told them to go fúck themselves, their bondholders, their losses, therefore, their problem!

I'll have to say your language and general ignorance towards other posters would lead one to beleive you may actually one of his loyal supporters... So, hows the civil unrest going ?? or will that too just be loads of banging on a keyboard and swearing at and insulting the general public??

squod · 02-11-2012 04:24PM

K-9 wrote: »

FF guaranteed the banks, not the ECB. There is no evidence whatsoever for ECB involvement in that decision.

This needs to be put on posters and RTE should broadcast this every day after the Angelus so everyone gets to understand.

Joan Burton calls for bailout inquiry

.........if Mr Lenihan was 'bullied' by the ECB we should know about it because it is very important to the future of Europe and for the current Government in dealing with the financial mess.

sfwcork · 02-11-2012 04:24PM

wrote:

SafeSurfer

Of course. Anyone who disagrees with current government policy must be a Sinn Fein supporter, if not an out and out terrorist

Again am I speaking to you? You seem to have amazing Knack of avoiding the questionspeople ask you andanswering the ones that have zero to do with you

are you getting paid much for being hellfires spokesperson?

K-9 · 02-11-2012 04:26PM

HellFireClub wrote: »

There was an ECB policy position adopted that no EU bank would be let fail, and ours were the first to be exposed as completely bust! Somehow, we seemed to forget that we hadn't handed over our financial competency to the EU under Lisbon II! It was our decision to make, we unsurprisingly made a fúcking stupid decision, instead of engaging in a round of international people pleasing, we should have told them to go fúck themselves, their bondholders, their losses, therefore, their problem!

There is no evidence of ECB pressure on Lehnihan at the time of the guarantee, plenty of evidence of pressure from bankers.

There is evidence of pressure during the bail out talks, but the horse had bolted at that stage, 2 things that people get mixed up in. The Government lost all credibility when they tried to convince Europe Anglo was a viable bank with business plans and everything..

It amazes me we've so much evidence of Irish incompetence yet some blame the ECB.

SafeSurfer · 02-11-2012 04:27PM

folan wrote: »

if the loan was illegal, does Quinn get to keep the money?

cause that would be awesome for Quinn.

I presume that if the loan was illegal it does not have to be repaid.

Once that ruling is made I am sure a case for punitive damages against IBRC would be filed. Leaving the Irish taxpayer on the hook for who knows how many millions. Restorative justice could mean untold expense for the Irish taxpayer and how much is 9 weeks in jail along with mental anguish etc etc ad naseum worth?

LLU · 02-11-2012 04:28PM

HellFireClub wrote: »

There is one very simple argument here that I agree with his supporters on, and it is this: If the issuing of the loan to him and his family or his organisation, was an illegal act, then how on earth can he be held to be responsible for paying it???

Sigh. So basically you mean he should be allowed to keep the money then?

HellFireClub wrote: »

That argument needed to be settled first, before all these other actions were taken, because by Jesus, we'll be needing a 2nd bailout if that loan was found to be illegal, therefore unenforceable, and he gets a judge of the High Court in this country to issue such a declaration, because if you think the sums gone into Anglo are massive, he'll be entitled to compensation of the order that we have never previously witnessed.

Utter stupid nonsense. No it doesn't need to be settled first. Both sides were ordered to leave their ill gotten gains exactly where they are until all the cases have been settled at which point the loser must cough up. Quinns disobeyed this and started hiding all their cash. That is called contempt and that is what they are being jailed for.

SafeSurfer · 02-11-2012 04:29PM

sfwcork wrote: »

Again am I speaking to you? You seem to have amazing Knack of avoiding the questionspeople ask you andanswering the ones that have zero to do with you

are you getting paid much for being hellfires spokesperson?

Is that question directed at me? I responded to your post because it amazes me how by expressing any opinion other than the received wisdom of our political masters one is immediately labeled a Sinn Fein supporter.

HellFireClub · 02-11-2012 04:29PM

bbam wrote: »

I'll have to say your language and general ignorance towards other posters would lead one to believe you may actually one of his loyal supporters... So, hows the civil unrest going ?? or will that too just be loads of banging on a keyboard and swearing at and insulting the general public??

There is no general ignorance towards any other poster, you clearly accept the complete falsehood that this state as a community of hard working tax payers, that this state, ever had to get involved with the trainwreck that was Anglo. A company being incorporated in this state, does not, and has never, placed a burden, legal, moral or otherwise, on the taxpayers of the state to bail out the company if it runs into trouble.

What part of that extremely simple statement of fact do you have a problem with?

Also, to the other contributors on here who don't seem to be able to argue their point on merit, I am not a Quinn supporter, I am not a Sinn Fein supporter, I am politically neutral because there is no party in this country that I would waste my vote vote on, so I usually vote for the best independent in my area, however I always do vote.

K-9 · 02-11-2012 04:30PM

squod wrote: »

This needs to be put on posters and RTE should broadcast this every day after the Angelus so everyone gets to understand.

Joan Burton calls for bailout inquiry

Exactly, the bailout, not the guarantee. I think it is Patrick Honahan that is on record as saying burning bondholders wasn't really discussed, though my recollection was FF didn't really push the issue much.

squod · 02-11-2012 04:30PM

K-9 wrote: »

It amazes me we've so much evidence of Irish incompetence yet some blame the ECB.

Again no evidence of incompetence there K9. You make it seem as if we had the three stooges running the show. Far from it.

SafeSurfer · 02-11-2012 04:31PM

LLU wrote: »

Sigh. So basically you mean he should be allowed to keep the money then?

Utter stupid nonsense. No it doesn't need to be settled first. Both sides were ordered to leave their ill gotten gains exactly where they are until all the cases have been settled at which point the loser must cough up. Quinns disobeyed this and started hiding all their cash. That is called contempt and that is what they are being jailed for.

What? By the time IBRC is wound up there wont be any "ill gotten gains" left.

sfwcork · 02-11-2012 04:32PM

wrote:

SafeSurfer

Is that question directed at me? I responded to your post because it amazes me how by expressing any opinion other than the received wisdom of our political masters one is immediately labeled a Sinn Fein supporter.

I asked him was he a SF voter? No where did I" Label" him anything. I think you need to visit specsavers or else stop seeing whatever you want to see

kunst nugget · 02-11-2012 04:34PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Because if the Anglo loans to Quinn were deemed illegal then his companies would not have been liquidated and he would not be trying to hide assets from IBRC. Ergo he would not be in Mountjoy.

But Quinn was in collusion with Anglo who loaned him the money to try to cover their exposure to the CFDs. Since that action he has continually broken the rules and disobeyed court orders. Ergo he is in Mountjoy.

K-9 · 02-11-2012 04:35PM

squod wrote: »

Again no evidence of incompetence there K9. You make it seem as if we had the three stooges running the show. Far from it.

I'd call dressing Anglo up as a viable bank as incompetent, but its just a matter of what you call it really.

K-9 · 02-11-2012 04:37PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I presume that if the loan was illegal it does not have to be repaid.

Once that ruling is made I am sure a case for punitive damages against IBRC would be filed. Leaving the Irish taxpayer on the hook for who knows how many millions. Restorative justice could mean untold expense for the Irish taxpayer and how much is 9 weeks in jail along with mental anguish etc etc ad naseum worth?

Quinn can't really argue he was coerced into it though, unless he has some evidence that he was. He'd a mutual interest in propping up the share price so I'd be doubtful.

HellFireClub · 02-11-2012 04:38PM

LLU wrote: »

Utter stupid nonsense. No it doesn't need to be settled first. Both sides were ordered to leave their ill gotten gains exactly where they are until all the cases have been settled at which point the loser must cough up. Quinns disobeyed this and started hiding all their cash. That is called contempt and that is what they are being jailed for.

The only stupid nonsense was us as a state being dragged into it in the first place. If the bondholders of Anglo wanted their money back, firstly Anglo should have been let go to the wall and the hierarchy of creditors get paid in a particular order, unsecured bondholders usually not getting paid at all.

What happened here?!? Our government of arsehóles stepped in and said, "hang on lads, we'll sort this out for you, all you bondholders, just form a queue and you'll all be paid 100% of what is owed!"

A lot of these creditors would have been handed back their second arséhole on a plate if the normal process of capitalism (in this case CLOSURE of a FAILED business!!!), had simply been allowed to occur, without fear of or favour to anyone!!!

But the outcome would have been that the position of the Irish taxpayer would have been secure, and we wouldn't be dealing with this insanity of getting involved, at a cost of hundreds of Billions of Euro, in things that had absolutely nothing to do with us, trying to claw back 500 mil here and 200 mil there! Just don't put the money in in the first place, simplest way ever to "protect the taxpayer"!!!!

folan · 02-11-2012 04:39PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I presume that if the loan was illegal it does not have to be repaid.

awesome, so he got X amount of free money. how much was it again? where is it now? when he took the loan, how did he plan to repay it?

also, why should he be allowed to hide assets now, with the belief that he wont have to pay back the loan later? what about the money he owes now? why is he hiding it from court orders? surely he has nothing to fear?

what about the money he took from his insurance business to prop up other areas of his business? shouldn't this have been dealt with legally in the first place, instead of trying to hide it?

Eiriu · 02-11-2012 04:40PM

Considering the radical nature of opinions expressed here, I'd love to know the amount of people on this thread that properly understand the bet which he took on Anglo, and his current contempt of court.

very few I'd imagine.

I personally believe that Sean Quinn tried to hide assets.

Someone from that part of the country would'nt let go of their business and money too easily. Border inhabitants have very little respect for authority.

I just don't understand why he would take such a big gamble on bank shares in the first place.

SmilingLurker · 02-11-2012 04:40PM

JR Ewing wrote: »

Shame on all those expressing delight at the jailing of Sean Quinn. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but you have obviously been "infected" by the expensive media circus & spin which has been paid for (at all our expense by IBRC/Anglo). Is there anyway you could look at the actual facts of the matter?

1. Sean Quinn employed over 8,000 people in this country & while once listed as "the wealthiest man" in Ireland (a title he never courted or sought media attention for- more it was labelled on him) he never went "off shore" as a tax exile. He has lived & paid his taxes with this entire nation while putting food on the table for 1,000s of families with wages.

2. IBRC/Anglo fradulently enticed Sean Quinn to prop up the share price of the bank using CFD's purchased with money they lent him. He was led like a lamb to slaughter by Sean Fitzpatrick & David Drumm (both of whom are still free men) having been fed a lie and financially induced to cover up their mess and then when the "Anglo Grenade" went off want him to take the fall. Put yourself in this man's situation? He took Fitzpatrick & Drumm i.e. Anglo at face value only to subsequently find out that they had actually lied to him & that his transactions had been based on a fraud- would you hand back your life's work & family's assets to the same organisation? Would you f**k!

Of course Sean Quinn is in contempt of court- any self respecting man would do anything in his power sooner than handover his life to an organisation who defrauded him? Could the likes of James Connolly & Michael Collins not be accused as being murderers in pursuit of freedom? Sometimes the end justifies the means.

People like Sean Quinn are the job creators and entrepreneurs which this country needs to dig itself out of dung heap we find ourselves in. Jailing him is a national disgrace and shame on anyone who delights in another man's demise. Begrudgery is alive and well if many of the comments on this thread are to be beleived. There are not enough men with the "balls" of Sean Quinn left in Ireland- the balls to start with a hole in the ground quarry and build it into a €6bn fortune, and ultimately the balls to take on a bailed out bank with unlimited funds for media spin & legal fees being paid for by the tax payer.

If that man is taken to jail there should be a civil revolt- no question. If that is supposed justice then sir the law is truly as ass.

By the way I am in no way connected to Sean Quinn, am from Wexford not Cavan/Fermanagh. I am an Irish man who is ashamed of the treatment and so called law being punitively administered on Sean Quinn and his family.

Shame on you supporting a man who was justifiably found guilty of a crime, illegally hiding assets, which the state alas owns as we took on the debts of a dodgy bank.

We are all paying for his greed, and the hiding of money, which if not recovered, we as taxpayers and as people who pay for insurance will have to pay.

Shame on anyone who does not support our independent legal system, and our democratically passed laws. You want an exemption for rich businessmen to hide assets they legitimately owe? Run for election on that ticket, do not expect my vote.

HellFireClub · 02-11-2012 04:43PM

SmilingLurker wrote: »

Shame on you supporting a man who was justifiably found guilty of a crime, illegally hiding assets, which the state alas owns as we took on the debts of a dodgy bank.

We are all paying for his greed, and the hiding of money, which if not recovered, we as taxpayers and as people who pay for insurance will have to pay.

Shame on anyone who does not support our independent legal system, and our democratically passed laws. You want an exemption for rich businessmen to hide assets they legitimately owe? Run for election on that ticket, do not expect my vote.

We were never under any legal obligation WHATSOEVER to "pay for his greed"!!! He ran a private company, he borrowed from a private bank. Losses emerged. What in the name of Jesus would any liability that unfolded between two such entities, have to do with the Irish taxpayer???

SafeSurfer · 02-11-2012 04:43PM

K-9 wrote: »

Quinn can't really argue he was coerced into it though, unless he has some evidence that he was. He'd a mutual interest in propping up the share price so I'd be doubtful.

A mutual interest in acting illegally, its a joint venture so both parties are liable No?

folan · 02-11-2012 04:44PM

JR Ewing wrote: »

1. Sean Quinn employed over 8,000 people in this country & while once listed as "the wealthiest man" in Ireland (a title he never courted or sought media attention for- more it was labelled on him) he never went "off shore" as a tax exile. He has lived & paid his taxes with this entire nation while putting food on the table for 1,000s of families with wages.

except for the while when he went to Northern Ireland to declare himself bankrupt.

Nice article

"I never did a day's work from southern Ireland in my life. I never done a day's work in my home. I never had any computers. I never had any IT system. Everything was done from Derrylin."

SafeSurfer · 02-11-2012 04:44PM

SmilingLurker wrote: »

Shame on you supporting a man who was justifiably found guilty of a crime, illegally hiding assets, which the state alas owns as we took on the debts of a dodgy bank.

We are all paying for his greed, and the hiding of money, which if not recovered, we as taxpayers and as people who pay for insurance will have to pay.

Shame on anyone who does not support our independent legal system, and our democratically passed laws. You want an exemption for rich businessmen to hide assets they legitimately owe? Run for election on that ticket, do not expect my vote.

He was not found guilty of "a crime". He was jailed for contempt of court.

sfwcork · 02-11-2012 04:45PM

wrote:

SafeSurfer
.

A mutual interest in acting illegally, its a joint venture so both parties are liable No?

Again picking and choosing points

NOT ONE PERSON ON HERE HAS CLAIMED THAT HIS THE ONLY PERSON INVOLVED IN ILLEGAL ACTIVITY.THAT DOES NOT DISPUTE THE FACT THAT HE IS ALSO GUILTY

Eiriu · 02-11-2012 04:45PM

Bertie Ahearne is a bigger criminal

SafeSurfer · 02-11-2012 04:46PM

Eiriu wrote: »

Considering the radical nature of opinions expressed here, I'd love to know the amount of people on this thread that properly understand the bet which he took on Anglo, and his current contempt of court.

very few I'd imagine.

I personally believe that Sean Quinn tried to hide assets.

Someone from that part of the country would'nt let go of their business and money too easily. Border inhabitants have very little respect for authority.

I just don't understand why he would take such a big gamble on bank shares in the first place.

Wow there are some pretty big generalisations there.

Sean Quinn did try to hide assets.

SafeSurfer · 02-11-2012 04:48PM

sfwcork wrote: »

Again picking and choosing points

NOT ONE PERSON ON HERE HAS CLAIMED THAT HIS THE ONLY PERSON INVOLVED IN ILLEGAL ACTIVITY.THAT DOES NOT DISPUTE THE FACT THAT HE IS ALSO GUILTY

If you can't keep abreast of my arguments then don't bother trying.

sfwcork · 02-11-2012 04:49PM

wrote:

SafeSurfer

He was not found guilty of "a crime". He was jailed for contempt of court.

YOUR NITPICKING NOW.

FYI its considered neither by the surpreme count.

K-9 · 02-11-2012 04:49PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

A mutual interest in acting illegally, its a joint venture so both parties are liable No?

I don't know, it's a bit like insider trading to me. Say you got a loan based on inside knowledge from a bank about share prices, it goes wrong, I'd still think you'd be liable for the money, and guilty of insider trading too. The loan would still need to be repaid.

It couldn't be that easy to get it wiped, otherwise we'd all be at it!

LLU · 02-11-2012 04:49PM

JR Ewing wrote: »

Shame on all those expressing delight at the jailing of Sean Quinn. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but you have obviously been "infected" by the expensive media circus & spin which has been paid for (at all our expense by IBRC/Anglo). Is there anyway you could look at the actual facts of the matter?

1. Sean Quinn employed over 8,000 people in this country & while once listed as "the wealthiest man" in Ireland (a title he never courted or sought media attention for- more it was labelled on him) he never went "off shore" as a tax exile. He has lived & paid his taxes with this entire nation while putting food on the table for 1,000s of families with wages.

2. IBRC/Anglo fradulently enticed Sean Quinn to prop up the share price of the bank using CFD's purchased with money they lent him. He was led like a lamb to slaughter by Sean Fitzpatrick & David Drumm (both of whom are still free men) having been fed a lie and financially induced to cover up their mess and then when the "Anglo Grenade" went off want him to take the fall. Put yourself in this man's situation? He took Fitzpatrick & Drumm i.e. Anglo at face value only to subsequently find out that they had actually lied to him & that his transactions had been based on a fraud- would you hand back your life's work & family's assets to the same organisation? Would you f**k!

Of course Sean Quinn is in contempt of court- any self respecting man would do anything in his power sooner than handover his life to an organisation who defrauded him? Could the likes of James Connolly & Michael Collins not be accused as being murderers in pursuit of freedom? Sometimes the end justifies the means.

People like Sean Quinn are the job creators and entrepreneurs which this country needs to dig itself out of dung heap we find ourselves in. Jailing him is a national disgrace and shame on anyone who delights in another man's demise. Begrudgery is alive and well if many of the comments on this thread are to be beleived. There are not enough men with the "balls" of Sean Quinn left in Ireland- the balls to start with a hole in the ground quarry and build it into a €6bn fortune, and ultimately the balls to take on a bailed out bank with unlimited funds for media spin & legal fees being paid for by the tax payer.

If that man is taken to jail there should be a civil revolt- no question. If that is supposed justice then sir the law is truly as ass.

By the way I am in no way connected to Sean Quinn, am from Wexford not Cavan/Fermanagh. I am an Irish man who is ashamed of the treatment and so called law being punitively administered on Sean Quinn and his family.

Hurray! Great to see people like you doing their bit by signing up anonymously to an internet forum to inspire the troops. So brave. And intelligent.

Sean Quinn Jailed

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