The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)

maguffin · 10-10-2012 03:25PM

Lelantos wrote: »

So your deduction is based on whether little piggy goes to the butchers or not? In fact its because they didn't know howto cure the meat, it goes bad quickly in the heat, lots of deaths, easier to say pig bad! Don't eat!

Not quite right....see here for the laws relating to what can and can not be eaten:

http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm

Zombrex · 10-10-2012 03:25PM

systemsready wrote: »

Can you quote me where Jesus when he was on earth actually told the people, you can now eat pork, and no need to get circumcised?

Matthew 15
14 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15 Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”

17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

Now can you explain why a perfect being such as God can just exist but this universe of ours can't?

Lelantos · 10-10-2012 03:26PM

systemsready wrote: »

greenpilot wrote: »

And this, my logical and rational friends, is the attitude which has forced thousands of young to laugh at religion and put the nail in the coffin of faith in this country. We are probably the last generation of believers. I'm beginning to wonder myself after reading some of these illogical posts....including mine, I hear u say..

They only laugh temporarily. History shows there is no escape from truth. Going back to our original debate about Noah's Ark...people laughed at Noah too.
Look for the signs of wisdom in order to be saved.

You have to be a wind up artist, surely this post is a joke & Dara O'Briain is going to jump up & go "ahhh, nearly had ye there! "

systemsready · 10-10-2012 03:27PM

Lelantos wrote: »

So your deduction is based on whether little piggy goes to the butchers or not? In fact its because they didn't know howto cure the meat, it goes bad quickly in the heat, lots of deaths, easier to say pig bad! Don't eat!
Most religions differ greatly in basic belief, Christians say son of god, Muslims say its impossible for there to be a son of god, Hindus do their own thing & Sikhs say come one, come all. We're all the same & pray to the same god. Perhaps if you wish to have religion in your life, this is the best option?

OK..lets say I agree with you that in the days of Moses (5000 years ago) pork would have went bad and was dangerous so Moses forbade it then.
But then you say that Jesus allowed it 2000 years ago. Did Jesus see the curing process going on and decided.."Hmmm..pork looks ok now"...LOL

systemsready · 10-10-2012 03:28PM

Lelantos wrote: »

You have to be a wind up artist, surely this post is a joke & Dara O'Briain is going to jump up & go "ahhh, nearly had ye there! "

There you go, each to his own. All we can do is advise you.
The thinking is your own job.

maguffin · 10-10-2012 03:32PM

systemsready wrote: »

I only acknowledge the God that brought all of the Universe into existence. The One True God of Abraham. Any other notions result in absurdity.

There is no empirical proof that your 'god of abraham' created the universe over any of the other pre-existing older gods. It is just hearsay based on writings that came long after jesus had died...and to say that all other notions result in absurdity is surely a form of religious intolerance and to say the least, religious snobbery.
Your 'god of abraham' is just another god that has risen up in a different culture in the middle east a couple of thousand years ago, much the same way as other gods of different cultures around the world have arisen since time immemorial.

systemsready · 10-10-2012 03:33PM

Zombrex wrote: »

Matthew 15
14 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15 Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”

17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

Now can you explain why a perfect being such as God can just exist but this universe of ours can't?

You made a big leap there with that. My question is this. Pork was always known to be foul and as the jews say "contained the worm". Jesus knew it and Moses knew it. And if you research enough you will know it too. So when did pork become not foul that Jesus would say to someone .."Go ahead and eat it" Did Jesus change the DNA of the pork?

According to your interpretation of what Jesus said..its ok even to eat sh** because it wont defile you. Well I think it will so I will avoid it.

Gumbi · 10-10-2012 03:34PM

You're so dishonest. Regarding the question of God's existence, you call people lazy and cowardly for saying they don't know. I pose the same question to you, replacing God with unicorn, and you dodge it.

systemsready · 10-10-2012 03:34PM

maguffin wrote: »

There is no empirical proof that your 'god of abraham' created the universe over any of the other pre-existing older gods. It is just hearsay based on writings that came long after jesus had died...and to say that all other notions result in absurdity is surely a form of religious intolerance and to say the least, religious snobbery.
Your 'god of abraham' is just another god that has risen up in a different culture in the middle east a couple of thousand years ago, much the same way as other gods of different cultures around the world have arisen since time immemorial.

Its a simple fact, when you research you will realise it.

Lelantos · 10-10-2012 03:37PM

systemsready wrote: »

Lelantos wrote: »

You have to be a wind up artist, surely this post is a joke & Dara O'Briain is going to jump up & go "ahhh, nearly had ye there! "

There you go, each to his own. All we can do is advise you.
The thinking is your own job.

Advise, in days gone by it was called indoctrination.

Lelantos · 10-10-2012 03:38PM

systemsready wrote: »

maguffin wrote: »

There is no empirical proof that your 'god of abraham' created the universe over any of the other pre-existing older gods. It is just hearsay based on writings that came long after jesus had died...and to say that all other notions result in absurdity is surely a form of religious intolerance and to say the least, religious snobbery.
Your 'god of abraham' is just another god that has risen up in a different culture in the middle east a couple of thousand years ago, much the same way as other gods of different cultures around the world have arisen since time immemorial.

Its a simple fact, when you research you will realise it.

Facts & religion make very strange bedfellows indeed.

maguffin · 10-10-2012 03:41PM

systemsready wrote: »

Its a simple fact, when you research you will realise it.

Research where exactly....

And look up the word 'fact' in a dictionary...you will find you need verifiable evidence to make something a 'fact'

systemsready · 10-10-2012 04:03PM

maguffin wrote: »

Research where exactly....

And look up the word 'fact' in a dictionary...you will find you need verifiable evidence to make something a 'fact'

Its not an overnight task Maguffin...you wont find all of it in any book.
Its a jigsaw you have to piece together. Isn't that what life is about?
Surely it can't be just about chatting for 80 years and then leaving the earth with not much more awareness than when you arrived here.

systemsready · 10-10-2012 04:04PM

maguffin wrote: »

Research where exactly....

And look up the word 'fact' in a dictionary...you will find you need verifiable evidence to make something a 'fact'

I'm only interested in proving things to myself. So its a fact to me.

systemsready · 10-10-2012 04:06PM

Lelantos wrote: »

Advise, in days gone by it was called indoctrination.

Blessed were the indoctrinated then...they didn't have the hard task to seek God as we will have to seek Him.

maguffin · 10-10-2012 04:17PM

systemsready wrote: »

I'm only interested in proving things to myself. So its a fact to me.

So, you are not willing to share this great source of knowledge so that the rest of us can reason it out for ourselves?? and at the same time dismiss out of hand what other people discover to be 'their' truths!!

Gumbi · 10-10-2012 04:20PM

systemsready wrote: »

Lelantos wrote: »

Advise, in days gone by it was called indoctrination.

Blessed were the indoctrinated then...they didn't have the hard task to seek God as we will have to seek Him.

ROFL.

Lantus · 10-10-2012 04:26PM

Its funny to read about how supporters of the bible stories take it as being obvious that whales were not inside the ark and also possibly could of been without any issues.

Like any piece of text it is all subject to interpretation which is why so many people are providing statements like "What god meant to say was this, or that"

Its why there are so many different types of christianity and interpretations and ultimatley why the bible lacks credibility. Getting an A+ in planet and universe making and then being unable to use simple words to write a book that can be readily understood makes no sense.

Lelantos · 10-10-2012 04:32PM

Gumbi wrote: »

systemsready wrote: »

Lelantos wrote: »

Advise, in days gone by it was called indoctrination.

Blessed were the indoctrinated then...they didn't have the hard task to seek God as we will have to seek Him.

ROFL.

Maybe I should have said brainwashed instead.

systemsready · 10-10-2012 04:49PM

Lelantos wrote: »

Maybe I should have said brainwashed instead.

Indoctrinated from a young age wouldn't have been brainwashing. It would have been giving kids a good education about who they are, what their purpose is in life and what happens to them afterwards.
Brainwashing might be applicable to someone who grew up without such guidance and is indeed lost without the answers to these 3 questions, so yes, his/her mind would not be in a good state of cleanliness. So a good brain washing would do the world of good.
Simple reasoning.

systemsready · 10-10-2012 04:51PM

Lantus wrote: »

Its funny to read about how supporters of the bible stories take it as being obvious that whales were not inside the ark and also possibly could of been without any issues.

Like any piece of text it is all subject to interpretation which is why so many people are providing statements like "What god meant to say was this, or that"

Its why there are so many different types of christianity and interpretations and ultimatley why the bible lacks credibility. Getting an A+ in planet and universe making and then being unable to use simple words to write a book that can be readily understood makes no sense.

He gave you a brain for a purpose..use it!
If He was going to make everything easy for you, you would have been born without a need to work for a living, or a need to build a house, or a need to find a wife...all this would have been done for you...so what would be the point of your existence?

systemsready · 10-10-2012 04:52PM

maguffin wrote: »

So, you are not willing to share this great source of knowledge so that the rest of us can reason it out for ourselves?? and at the same time dismiss out of hand what other people discover to be 'their' truths!!

If I write a book I'll be sure and send you a copy.

systemsready · 10-10-2012 04:52PM

Gumbi wrote: »

ROFL.

I rest my case

shizz · 10-10-2012 04:56PM

systemsready wrote: »

Lelantos wrote: »

Maybe I should have said brainwashed instead.

Indoctrinated from a young age wouldn't have been brainwashing. It would have been giving kids a good education about who they are, what their purpose is in life and what happens to them afterwards.
Brainwashing might be applicable to someone who grew up without such guidance and is indeed lost without the answers to these 3 questions, so yes, his/her mind would not be in a good state of cleanliness. So a good brain washing would do the world of good.
Simple reasoning.

You keep saying the phrases reasoning and logical conclusions, yet what you are describing is heavily biased. Thats not how reasoning and logic work.

For instance, you're assuming that those three questions need to be answered. Really only one of them does. Who they are, and Religion has no place in answering that.

There is nothing to suggest that the other two need answering.

Lelantos · 10-10-2012 05:03PM

systemsready wrote: »

Lelantos wrote: »

Maybe I should have said brainwashed instead.

Indoctrinated from a young age wouldn't have been brainwashing. It would have been giving kids a good education about who they are, what their purpose is in life and what happens to them afterwards.
Brainwashing might be applicable to someone who grew up without such guidance and is indeed lost without the answers to these 3 questions, so yes, his/her mind would not be in a good state of cleanliness. So a good brain washing would do the world of good.
Simple reasoning.

Someone who grew up without such "guidance" is able to think for themselves, see the world around them, learn from history, science & then, thru simple reasoning come to the only conclusion, that religion is merely man's way of compensating for the things which he could not at one time understand.
That, is simple reasoning

Obliq · 10-10-2012 05:07PM

Worked for me! I have answers to the 1st question, still working on the 2nd (obviously, because I am here) and will surely find out the 3rd when I go. Quite happy with that thanks, and I am not lost. I am here.

tommy2bad · 10-10-2012 05:40PM

Lelantos wrote: »

Someone who grew up without such "guidance" is able to think for themselves, see the world around them, learn from history, science & then, thru simple reasoning come to the only conclusion, that religion is merely man's way of compensating for the things which he could not at one time understand.
That, is simple reasoning

Hmmmmm.. how would you go about finding such a person?
Can any human grow up without some form of indoctrination? Whether it's cultural, religious or political, it's still indoctrination. Possibly atheism requires indoctrination. But you say potato, I say potato...

systemsready · 10-10-2012 06:42PM

shizz wrote: »

You keep saying the phrases reasoning and logical conclusions, yet what you are describing is heavily biased. Thats not how reasoning and logic work.

For instance, you're assuming that those three questions need to be answered. Really only one of them does. Who they are, and Religion has no place in answering that.

There is nothing to suggest that the other two need answering.

You dismissed the other 2 questions easily...what is the purpose of man? are you suggesting he devise his own purpose as he grows up? what criteria/context does he base this purpose on?
2. Where does he go after death...the whole momentum and approach to life depends on the answer to that question. If you are eternal then you will think differently to someone who is existentialist

systemsready · 10-10-2012 06:44PM

Lelantos wrote: »

Someone who grew up without such "guidance" is able to think for themselves, see the world around them, learn from history, science & then, thru simple reasoning come to the only conclusion, that religion is merely man's way of compensating for the things which he could not at one time understand.
That, is simple reasoning

At what age would someone likely come to that conclusion..near the age of his death probably. Which is a bit late

Lelantos · 10-10-2012 07:10PM

systemsready wrote: »

Lelantos wrote: »

Someone who grew up without such "guidance" is able to think for themselves, see the world around them, learn from history, science & then, thru simple reasoning come to the only conclusion, that religion is merely man's way of compensating for the things which he could not at one time understand.
That, is simple reasoning

At what age would someone likely come to that conclusion..near the age of his death probably. Which is a bit late

I would hope most people have the ability to work it out long, long before then.

The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)

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