Plan to build $84 million Super Mosque in Dublin Ireland.

MrD012 · 09-10-2012 05:09PM

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Please explain to me why on earth Muslims would leave predominately Muslim countries (where, presumably, there are lots of mosques) and head to Ireland on the basis that someone is building another mosque here? Clongriffen isn't that special.

better standard of living , more money . the majority of muslims who come to Ireland at present are from relatively poverished areas of Asia & Africa , some use the relative rule , some use the arranged marriage route , some use education and others use the asylum route.

Benny_Cake · 09-10-2012 05:09PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

There is no conflict - Civil Law always takes precedence.

Why are you singling out Muslims btw - it has been shown to you that Jews have exactly the same sort of Councils - do these not cause conflict with domestic law?

Many Christian churches also have procedures in relation to dissolving church marriages. It is completely voluntary and in no way conflicts with civil law.

wes · 09-10-2012 05:09PM

MrD012 wrote: »

of course it does , sharia will be practiced here just like it is in the UK , causing much conflict with domestic law.

Again, the UK system has been there for a century. Its not unique to Muslims either, as has been pointed out several times, facts you seem intent on ignoring.

Secondly the UK system doesn't conflict with there law, as the courts be they Beth Din, Sharia or whatever, can't violate the law of the land. There private arbitration, dressed up in Religous clothing basically.

Simply put, your using as an example a system that has existed for a century in the UK, as a reason to not build a Mosque in North Dublin. Your example is entirely irrelevant, and is just the latest in a long list of desperate grasping at staws.

BTW, your examples from the UK, aren't exactly relevant, as the make up of the Muslim population over here and over there are rather different. In the UK there Muslims are largely from there former colonies. Over here is a rather different story. You have decided that Muslims are one undifferentiate homgenous groups and nothing more.

walshb · 09-10-2012 05:09PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

There is no conflict - Civil Law always takes precedence.

Yes, as it should. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't cause conflict. It can, and it has. That is a problem.

Benny_Cake · 09-10-2012 05:10PM

MrD012 wrote: »

better standard of living , more money . the majority of muslims who come to Ireland at present are from relatively poverished areas of Asia & Africa , some use the relative rule , some use the arranged marriage route , some use education and others use the asylum route.

What has any of that got to do with whether a mosque is built in Clongriffen or not?

MrD012 · 09-10-2012 05:14PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

There is no conflict - Civil Law always takes precedence.

In mainstream society it does but not within Islamic communities. There are a number of reasons for this , the main reason being fear , fear of being outcast by their community.

please take some time to inform yourself on the issues . Here is a link to a report commissioned by one law for all , a uk organisation on shariah in britain.

http://www.onelawforall.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/New-Report-Sharia-Law-in-Britain_fixed.pdf

Bannasidhe · 09-10-2012 05:15PM

MrD012 wrote: »

better standard of living , more money . the majority of muslims who come to Ireland at present are from relatively poverished areas of Asia & Africa , some use the relative rule , some use the arranged marriage route , some use education and others use the asylum route.

Ditto for Christians - what's your point?

irishconvert · 09-10-2012 05:15PM

MrD012 wrote: »

In mainstream society it does but not within Islamic communities. There are a number of reasons for this , the main reason being fear , fear of being outcast by their community.

please take some time to inform yourself on the issues . Here is a link to a report commissioned by one law for all , a uk organisation on shariah in britain.

http://www.onelawforall.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/New-Report-Sharia-Law-in-Britain_fixed.pdf

Who are One law for all? Sounds like their opinion might be a little one sided????

Bannasidhe · 09-10-2012 05:19PM

walshb wrote: »

Yes, as it should. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't cause conflict. It can, and it has. That is a problem.

As I already pointed out - Canon Law and it's application regarding clerical child abuse brought the church into conflict with domestic law. Should we therefore prevent any more RCC churches being built?

wes · 09-10-2012 05:20PM

irishconvert wrote: »

Who are One law for all? Sounds like their opinion might be a little one sided????

Whethere one sided or not. I fail to see the relevance to a Mosque being built in North Dublin either way......

Bannasidhe · 09-10-2012 05:21PM

MrD012 wrote: »

In mainstream society it does but not within Islamic communities. There are a number of reasons for this , the main reason being fear , fear of being outcast by their community.

please take some time to inform yourself on the issues . Here is a link to a report commissioned by one law for all , a uk organisation on shariah in britain.

http://www.onelawforall.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/New-Report-Sharia-Law-in-Britain_fixed.pdf

We do not live in a Muslim country and building another Mosque will not make us a Muslim country and more than building another IKEA would make us Swedish.

walshb · 09-10-2012 05:22PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

As I already pointed out - Canon Law and it's application regarding clerical child abuse brought the church into conflict with domestic law. Should we therefore prevent any more RCC churches being built?

Yes. Makes perfect sense that suggestion!

Like I said, we have had centuries of catholic religious nonsense. Now we are bracing ourselves for imported stuff.

Scofflaw · 09-10-2012 05:23PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

We do not live in a Muslim country and building another Mosque will not make us a Muslim country and more than building another IKEA would make us Swedish.

Pity, really - then we'd be Swedish and have another IKEA...

treacherously,
Scofflaw

Bannasidhe · 09-10-2012 05:25PM

walshb wrote: »

Yes. Makes perfect sense that suggestion!

Like I said, we have had centuries of catholic religious nonsense. Now we are bracing ourselves for imported stuff.

Which is an argument for complete separation of church (or more properly all religious influence) and State and the secularisation of Irish society. It is not an argument against building a mosque.

Bannasidhe · 09-10-2012 05:26PM

Scofflaw wrote: »

Pity, really - then we'd be Swedish and have another IKEA...

treacherously,
Scofflaw

Wouldn't that be loverly

MrD012 · 09-10-2012 05:26PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

We do not live in a Muslim country and building another Mosque will not make us a Muslim country and more than building another IKEA would make us Swedish.

please , if can you just have a read to the end of the report I linked to . You will then be able to see clearer the issues involved.

09-10-2012 05:29PM

I don't object to a supermosque itself, but I don't think Clongriffin is the place to put it. Clongriffin is effectively in the middle of nowhere, with nothing else to it. Too easy to make it "de mozzleman place" and have it become a ghetto or look like "a bit of a forrin cuntry", ripe for some racists to get at "them forriners"

wes · 09-10-2012 05:29PM

MrD012 wrote: »

please , if can you just have a read to the end of the report I linked to . You will then be able to see clearer the issues involved.

A report that almost completely ignores the other religous arbitration courts. That report......

Either way, I fail to see how a century old system in the UK, has any relevance on a Mosque being built in North Dublin. In fact its the latest batch of desperate whataboutery you have come up with. The system was not set up by Muslims, and predates the arrival of the vast majortity of the UKs Muslims as well. So Muslims are hardly responsible for the existence of the system as well. So again, what is the relevance exactly? You have yet to show any, and are just repeating the same thing over and over again.

Bannasidhe · 09-10-2012 05:30PM

MrD012 wrote: »

please , if can you just have a read to the end of the report I linked to . You will then be able to see clearer the issues involved.

Why is Sharia Law - which I have no time for btw- any more of a threat to our civil liberties than Orthodox Jewish Law (with which it bares many many similarities) or Canon Law?

philologos · 09-10-2012 05:30PM

Nodin wrote: »

MrD012 wrote: »

how about the Guardian Newspaper

shariah law religious courts

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/jul/05/sharia-law-religious-courts

Theres also Jewish religous courts. Both are a bad idea. Neither can counter established law though.

You still haven't explained the link between the mosque and immigration.

What's bad about people consensually deciding to consult their religious leaders during disputes?

That's up to them. If I was having a dispute with another person I'd consult my pastor or try to arrange a meeting.

There's nothing really wrong with that choice.

MrD012 · 09-10-2012 05:34PM

philologos wrote: »

What's bad about people consensually deciding to consult their religious leaders during disputes?

Please read the report I linked to earlier , it will clear things up regarding such matters. there are discrimination issues involved .

Bannasidhe · 09-10-2012 05:37PM

MrD012 wrote: »

Please read the report I linked to earlier , it will clear things up regarding such matters. there are discrimination issues involved .

No one here is defending Sharia Law - what we are questioning is that you are ignoring the fact that such councils you describe exist within other religious communities yet you are not addressing this at all.

Godge · 09-10-2012 05:38PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Why is Sharia Law - which I have no time for btw- any more of a threat to our civil liberties than Orthodox Jewish Law (with which it bares many many similarities) or Canon Law?

I agree with you.

Canon Law has caused so much damage to this country in the way that it was twisted to allow the Roman Catholic Church to shelter child abusers.

We would be better off ensuring our domestic law prevents that happening again. If we focussed on that known clear breach of civil law and designed remedies to prevent a repeat, the remote possibility that concerns the OP would also be covered. Let us deal with the problems of the churches we have already.

wes · 09-10-2012 05:39PM

MrD012 wrote: »

Please read the report I linked to earlier , it will clear things up regarding such matters. there are discrimination issues involved .

Still has no bearing on a Mosque in North Dublin, one way or another......

augustus gloop · 09-10-2012 05:41PM

lagente wrote: »

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Plan-to-build-84-million-Islamic-center-in-Dublin-to-host-40000-Muslims-in-the-city-172632091.html#ixzz28drMaw1L

I personally object to this and I hope we quickly quash the argument that this will lead to creation of new jobs and investment, because the long term ramifications of this are large. We would not be allowed to even spread other religion on the street in many of the countries where the people are from, let alone build a cultural center for it. It is because of this religion that 9 year old girls can be married, and had sex with in countries like Saudi Arabia, beheadings of gays, etc. Islam has branches that are still stuck in the Middle Ages and worse, I'm not even going to argue on that point, and I think we should take active steps against it being built. There has been enough suffering due to unchecked religion here already.

i can only assume your RC like me, and for you, as a catholic from this country to come out with such a broad sweeping comdemnation of muslims is amazing after the past 10 years of revelations in the church here. Maybe your not religious at all, again i dont know, but your beliefs spund like something from the moronic part of USA, ie. most of it.

youve been watching too much homeland

old hippy · 09-10-2012 05:42PM

MrD012 wrote: »

of course it does , sharia will be practiced here just like it is in the UK , causing much conflict with domestic law.

Where is Sharia practiced here in the UK - I certainly don't see much conflict here.

MrD012 · 09-10-2012 05:42PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

No one here is defending Sharia Law - what we are questioning is that you are ignoring the fact that such councils you describe exist within other religious communities yet you are not addressing this at all.

which other religious law that you know states that a marriage contract is between a woman's "Guardian" and her husband .

JustinDee · 09-10-2012 05:43PM

irishconvert wrote: »

Who are One law for all? Sounds like their opinion might be a little one sided????

They're part of a wider athiestic movement headed by the likes of Maryam Namazie and Richard Dawkins. This particular branch focuses on Sharia Law.

Unfortunately certain folk of a certain mindset tend to hijack some of their quite salient points then subjectively bend and blend with their own pro-agendaic diatribe.

old hippy · 09-10-2012 05:44PM

MrD012 wrote: »

I'm saying that we do not want to repeat the mistakes the UK has made by allowing an uncontrolled migration of Islamic settlers .

What mistakes, christmas?

It is you, isn't it? Spreading mistruths, rumours and hysteria, as per usual :rolleyes:

MrD012 · 09-10-2012 05:47PM

augustus gloop wrote: »

i can only assume your RC like me, and for you, as a catholic from this country to come out with such a broad sweeping comdemnation of muslims

nobody is condemning anyone . we are merely pointing out the problems that exist in the UK . real life issues affecting another society which we can study and learn from.

Plan to build $84 million Super Mosque in Dublin Ireland.

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