Keep Calm And Discuss Retro Generally!

CiDeRmAn · 09-10-2012 03:29PM

Chaos Engine?

Micromachines?

Super Skidmarks?

Nerdkiller1991 · 09-10-2012 03:48PM

EnterNow wrote: »

There are the PAL exclusives, but the ones worth owning are few & far between.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Most European developed games fall into a few camps. Amiga games converted by an American company to run on NTSC machines so optimised for 60 Hz. Or games that were sped up for the US release, stuff like shadow of the beast and Back to the Future 3. Going by how lazy these ports are it's no surprise that these games are **** and not worth owning anyway.

Oh, and I forgot, there was also Rare, and you know how great their output was during the 8, 16 and 64 bit eras. I wouldn't expect PAL slowdown from them.

CiDeRmAn · 09-10-2012 04:00PM

Nerdkiller1991 wrote: »

Oh, and I forgot, there was also Rare, and you know how great their output was during the 8, 16 and 64 bit eras. I wouldn't expect PAL slowdown from them.

CiDeRmAn · 09-10-2012 04:02PM

OMG!
They're bringing back Condorman!!!!
AICN reports on Disney remaking Condorman!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlbkBHfXtRY

Retr0gamer · 09-10-2012 04:05PM

Nerdkiller1991 wrote: »

Oh, and I forgot, there was also Rare, and you know how great their output was during the 8, 16 and 64 bit eras. I wouldn't expect PAL slowdown from them.

Rare are the exception. Their NES games are all pretty much woeful but there's a few good ones. Stuff like Battletoads runs nicely on PAL machines although it does have bordering. DKC runs in a higher resolution on the SNES in PAL but it's still not full screen.

As for the N64 games, Rare tried their best but they still run slower and have bordering on PAL releases.

Nerdkiller1991 · 09-10-2012 04:11PM

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Rare are the exception. Their NES games are all pretty much woeful but there's a few good ones. Stuff like Battletoads runs nicely on PAL machines although it does have bordering. DKC runs in a higher resolution on the SNES in PAL but it's still not full screen.

As for the N64 games, Rare tried their best but they still run slower and have bordering on PAL releases.

ARG! That's what I get for not owning any of Nintendo's consoles back in the day.

Retr0gamer · 09-10-2012 06:00PM

I really have a hankering to play the original Parasite Eve. I only ever played the second one which is a bizarre and pretty woeful Resident Evil clone. Apparently the original is fantastic and after listening to jeremy parish bang on about it and watching the happy videogame nerd review of it I really want to play it because it looks fantastic and very different to the disaster of a sequel.

Dr Bob · 09-10-2012 07:27PM

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Now now, PAL gaming my not suffice to some but one should remember that the majority of retro gaming memories out there were born on Pal systems, on Megadrives not Genesis'.
So, with this in mind, try not to be so down on Pal machines.
You may be alienating those who are not tuned into NTSC @ 60Hz, via RGB.
The majority of folk who may happen on this forum during a search are likely to be Pal machine owners and should be encouraged to believe that the playing of classics like SMW or Sonic 2 is a worthwhile endevour.
Lets not appear to be saying otherwise!

This.

Part of the reason I collect old games is that I played them years ago.
I played PAL (mostly)games on RF.ha! back then , and I'm happy to play and collect PAL titles now
yeah NTSC stuff may play a bit faster/boarderless etc , but by that logic , why bother collecting retrogames in the first place just get 3d remakes of old games , as they'll look better /play faster.
Also (and I've had a spectacularly crappy day due to the numpties at st james hospital,so I may be crankier than normal), how exactly is it easier and cheaper to buy games from several thousand miles away , from people who (in many cases) speak a different freaking language from us, compared to buying games in this country or the neighbouring ones?
TBH it just smacks of hipsterish "Oh I buy from ebay.jp and japanese sites, but you probably havent heard of them..." elitism.
Sure half the fun of collecting is finding carboot sales, getting old attic games off mates or even (god help me) adverts/gumtree hauls.Getting sniped by inifinite disposable income guys on ebay is feckin boring now , and its really not a game for oul fellas with kids like me..;)

Meh feck it , I'm more about the home computers these days , and the meg and sms are modded for 60hz anyway;)

Retr0gamer · 09-10-2012 07:41PM

Get a console with a 50/60 Hz switch at the back and flick it to 60 Hz during a game and tell the 60 Hz supporters here that we are wrong. I'm sorry but the truth is that if you are playing in PAL 50 Hz you are playing a much inferior product. You are also not playing these games the way they were originally designed. How many people would be happy watching a movie knowing it's running slower and has stuff cut out that the director never intended.

As for buying stuff cheaper, the vast majority of the time this is also true. The market for english games in Europe is tiny while in America it's huge. It means there's far more games in circulation in America which leads to much cheaper prices. When it comes to NES games it's an even bigger gap since the NES was so popular over there. It's basic supply and demand, there's a much bigger supply in America, less demand, lower prices. It's not 'I buy japanese games' elitism at all. I'd never buy a japanese game that I couldn't play due to language barrier (with the exception of two shin megami tensei games which were so cheap I couldn't say no). Even still you'll find japanese postage to ireland actually very reasonable.

There's exceptions of course. The master system has a lot of PAL only games optimised for PAL and it's much cheaper to source PAL games since it was more popular here. Also home computers you should always buy PAL.

It's not elitism, it's advice. To get the best out of your games you really should buy NTSC for two reasons 1) a far superior play experience 2) cheaper. It's not elitism, it's just facts. I think the biggest thing for me is that these games in NTSC play the way that they the original designers meant them to be played. Some games like Sonic and Castlevania are really ruined by poor PAL conversions.

Professey Chin · 09-10-2012 07:43PM

Proper internet!! Sweet proper internet!!!

Atavan-Halen · 09-10-2012 07:44PM

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

Proper internet!! Sweet proper internet!!!

I hope it's 60hz NTSC-J internet. Otherwise it's not proper internet.

Retr0gamer · 09-10-2012 07:46PM

Professey Chin · 09-10-2012 07:48PM

atavan-halen wrote: »

I hope it's 60hz NTSC-J internet. Otherwise it's not proper internet.

100mb line. Proper to me

Atavan-Halen · 09-10-2012 07:49PM

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

100mb line. Proper to me

This is also acceptable.

Steve X2 · 09-10-2012 07:53PM

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

100mb line. Proper to me

If its with UPC you might be eligible for a free upgrade to 150mb.

Sparks43 · 09-10-2012 08:07PM

Steve SI wrote: »

If its with UPC you might be eligible for a free upgrade to 150mb.

Switching over to the 150Mb line tommorow

Are you still testing for them steve?

What speed you getting now?

Professey Chin · 09-10-2012 08:08PM

Steve SI wrote: »

If its with UPC you might be eligible for a free upgrade to 150mb.

Only installed today so I doubt ill get the upgrade free.
Although ill certainly investigate

Steve X2 · 09-10-2012 08:21PM

Sparks43 wrote: »

Switching over to the 150Mb line tommorow

Are you still testing for them steve?

What speed you getting now?

On and off, not testing at the moment so I'm on the normal 150mb.

CiDeRmAn · 09-10-2012 08:28PM

Tbh, when I was discussing pal and 50hz gaming I am talking of it as an entry point for people new to the scene.
No one arrived into this world complete with a optimum list of ntsx games and consoles, with knowledge of mods and av cables built in.
It's okay to get bored of the current generation, to find a Snes at a Sunday car boot and a couple of games along with.
It's great to see Super Mario World as a gateway drug into retro gaming.
Sure the finesse of Ntsc, the better speed, fewer borders, these are aspirations and for folk in our position typically the norm.
But, I'd say for the bulk of retro gamers the 60hz club isn't on their radar at all.

There is the whiff of elitist hipsterism when those at the top of the collecting game look down on owners of pal consoles and games.

Sparks43 · 09-10-2012 08:30PM

The normal 150 pmsl

So how does it feel to slum with the mortals

Oh btw do you know a source that i can get 240pin DDR2 800mhz Pc6400 non ecc ram

Looking to see how much 3 2Gb sticks would be

Also in the market for a hd graphics card to put in as a second display into my tv

Dr Bob · 09-10-2012 08:30PM

Right my last post there was 50% stomach pain , 20 % jealousy and 30% " people on the internet are wrong!!" .
Feel free to collect retro whatever way makes you happiest, as long as it doesnt involve 'rise of the robots' its all good.

Professey Chin · 09-10-2012 08:31PM

Dr Bob wrote: »

Right my last post there was 50% stomach pain , 20 % jealousy and 30% " people on the internet are wrong!!" .
Feel free to collect retro whatever way makes you happiest, as long as it doesnt involve 'rise of the robots' its all good.

>_>

Jack burton · 09-10-2012 08:38PM

Ye should all feel good!

I'm working on 7MB line here, and I still run an online empire with an iron fist!

Myrddin · 09-10-2012 08:43PM

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

100mb line. Proper to me

Somewhere, Andrew just threw up a little.

Dr Bob wrote: »

Right my last post there was 50% stomach pain , 20 % jealousy and 30% " people on the internet are wrong!!" .
Feel free to collect retro whatever way makes you happiest, as long as it doesnt involve 'rise of the robots' its all good.

Thats the Bob I know!

Basically my take on it is this:

I too, grew up playing PAL/50Hz/RF & the awesomeness blew my mind. I eventually sold everything off, & rebought it all again years later, PAL/50Hz & yep, RF.

Then I got into modding. I discovered you could make consoles region free, & run at the intended 60Hz. I then set about doing it to my Megadrive, & could see for myself the difference it made playing in 60Hz. It really is a massive difference.

Thats all well & good yee might say, but to me, after seeing this, it seemed every time I went back to playing PAL/50Hz, I couldn't help but notice the huge borders, & the S L O W gameplay. I was after being spoiled, ruined, by the touch of 60Hz.

Fast forward to now, & I find myself asking. Am I collecting these games, to chase the feeling I had when I was 12 years old playing them? Or am I collecting them because they're mostly the greatest games I've ever played? I have to say its the latter. I want to play these games, as intended, at the screen size they were meant to be played at, & the speed they were meant to be played at. PAL gaming, in comparison to NTSC, really is an inferior product if your chasing gameplay over nostalgia.

Regards the ease of getting them, not only have I found it a thoroughly enjoyable exercise searching, researching, & trying to price these games, I've actually MADE money by selling off PAL & buying NTSC. So in one hand, I've NTSC games which are full screen, full speed, and some extra money...and in the other hand, I've PAL games which are slower, smaller in screen size, & costing more to collect. It really is a no brainer.

I admit too, I find the whole NTSC-J thing very hipsterish. It seems once its NTSC-J, its automatically cool, no matter what type of sh1te it is. USA stuff is so mainstream etc etc. Thats no the reason at all, certainly not my reason to go NTSC. As I said, its the gameplay I'm after, the cheaper prices too. Yeah I'll keep my eye out for some NTSC-J stuff, but only in cases where the other regional alternatives have been cut down or censored. To me, I'm fully happy buying NTSC-U for the reasons above, not for any type of hipster criticism.

AAaahhhh

Andrew76 · 09-10-2012 08:47PM

Sparks43 wrote: »

The normal 150 pmsl

So how does it feel to slum with the mortals

Oh btw do you know a source that i can get 240pin DDR2 800mhz Pc6400 non ecc ram

Looking to see how much 3 2Gb sticks would be

Also in the market for a hd graphics card to put in as a second display into my tv

LOL! You UPC heads are the snobs of the (Irish) broadband world. Head out to the sticks and you'll know what slumming it is really like.

I hear you Luas_Dublin, ain't no shame in PAL. Almost all of us grew up with it and it never dimmed our enjoyment. Of course there's nothing wrong with wanting an NTSC setup either, each to their own.

Sparks43 · 09-10-2012 08:51PM

Andrew76 wrote: »

LOL! You UPC heads are the snobs of the (Irish) broadband world. Head out to the sticks and you'll know what slumming it is really like.

I hear you Luas_Dublin, ain't no shame in PAL. Almost all of us grew up with it and it never dimmed our enjoyment. Of course there's nothing wrong with wanting an NTSC setup either, each to their own.

I wouldnt call Arklow the sticks m8

But tbh most people down there dont care about BB all they seem to want to do is get pissed and annoy me at 3 in the morning when im trying to fish the Beach:mad:

Dr Bob · 09-10-2012 08:56PM

offtopic but:
..a few minutes ago I was sitting on the jacks taking a du...er.... ruminating on current events , when under the door runs the BIGGEST FECKIN' SPIDER I've seen this year.I, despite being a manly man get a shock and let out a yell.The spider gets knocked back ,and then its right legs go out from under it and it sort of falls over stunned.
Recomposing myself I eventually pop out and with cup and cardboard relocate the still distressed arachnid outside.

Basically I just knocked a spider over.

By shouting at it.

I reckon the last few weeks of Skyrim playing has trained me to do this.

To quote one of the gaurds from it
"Maybe ah'm duh draaaagonborn und dont know it yet"

Jack burton · 09-10-2012 08:56PM

Why not get both, I'd say 90% of my games are PAL and its because I get them from around Ireland and England. It doesnt make a huge difference at the end of the day. But it is a joy playing games the way they were designed to be played and stuff.

But its down to personal preference at the end of it!

Atavan-Halen · 09-10-2012 08:57PM

Sparks43 wrote: »

But tbh most people down there dont care about BB all they seem to want to do is get pissed and annoy me at 3 in the morning when im trying to fish the Beach:mad:

Sorry about that.

johnny_ultimate · 09-10-2012 08:59PM

The PAL vs NTSC debate is like the DVD vs Blu-Ray debate. Blu-Ray is superior technically, but I have neither the money or motivation to suddenly scrap my entire DVD collection for better resolution. Similarly, I have healthy PAL collections for all my consoles accumulated over something like two decades, and I don't feel that I have wasted my time or money on them because they're 20% slower. Go for the best where possible - and in our borderless, cashless world, that's easier than ever - but I don't think anyone should be harshly criticised for buying into whatever technology was most easily available at the time.

Alternatively: just download everything and watch the world burn.

Keep Calm And Discuss Retro Generally!

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