Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

DOCO12 · 08-10-2012 10:40AM

A big thumbs up for Athlone 3/4 brilliantly organised, refreshments etc. Enjoyed the chat among the fellow runners. Followed the 3.30 pacers for the most part and cheers for the tips re marathon day they gave. Weather wise the conditions were perfect! One of the pacers left us at the 1/2 marathon mark so I stayed following the rest of the group. Mile 18 was a big tester but had enough in the legs to do a fast last mile and came home in 2.44 delighted

Feel allot more confident about the big day now. As regards what time I should aim for I'm still clueless?!
As regards today is it better to rest or do a few miles recovery? Thanks

Younganne · 08-10-2012 10:42AM

some of you have had great final LSRs, some not so, i haven't had a chance to read over the log from the last couple of day. i will in the next day or 2 and respond to anything that comes up but in the meantime, keep positive and keep the head up;)

Younganne · 08-10-2012 10:43AM

Week 16 – TAPER TIME

Well guys I hope you are all looking forward to taper time.
Taper is a vital part of the training plan as it gives your body a chance to recover and repair any damage that has been done, and every run damages the muscles a little bit.

Now be very careful not to fall into the trap of wanting to add on an extra mile or two here and there because you missed a run or two. Now is not the time to try and catch up on any missed runs. And don’t increase your speed, keep them to what you have being doing up till now.

As the taper goes on your legs will become refreshed and your energy levels will increase because you wont be doing as much running. Use the extra time for friends & family, after all they haven’t being seeing too much of you over the past few weeks.

This weeks plan

Mon | Tue | Wed | Thur | Fri | Sat | Sun | Total
Rest |5m/8K |8m/13k | 4m/6.5K| Rest | 12m/20K | Cross| 29m/47.5k
Some of you have had good final LSR and some not so good. Keep the head up, the week of the marathon you will be so much more rested and you will be taking more gels on the day (approx 4), the crowds really do help and the adrenalin will kick in.

And remember the first marathon is all about the experience, not the time. People have become a bit fixated on time, forget it, it will be a much more bearable, enjoyable and memorable day if you run to you ability and not the clock!!

Positive thoughts all the way – I can do this, I will do this!!!

RunningKing · 08-10-2012 10:44AM

DOCO12 wrote: »

A big thumbs up for Athlone 3/4 brilliantly organised, refreshments etc. Enjoyed the chat among the fellow runners. Followed the 3.30 pacers for the most part and cheers for the tips re marathon day they gave. Weather wise the conditions were perfect! One of the pacers left us at the 1/2 marathon mark so I stayed following the rest of the group. Mile 18 was a big tester but had enough in the legs to do a fast last mile and came home in 2.44 delighted Feel allot more confident about the big day now. As regards what time I should aim for I'm still clueless?!
As regards today is it better to rest or do a few miles recovery? Thanks

Did you race the full run or was only part of it at PMP?

RayCun · 08-10-2012 10:44AM

RunningKing wrote: »

Some plans call for a 15-17m run this coming weekend, all depending on the plan your on, you could get a ego boosting 17m run while tapering at the same time.

Depends on the plan you're on, some only have a 2 week taper. If that's what you've been following that's okay, but you shouldn't go off-plan to throw in another long run - especially not the weekend before the race.

pistol_75 · 08-10-2012 10:48AM

Duzzie wrote: »

Does anyone know what the elevation gain over the marathon course is. I've seen the vertical profile but it doesn't give a total for the elevation change. I've seen a figure of 550m which seems a lot, I thought it was flatter than that.

Think its somewhere around 230 metres.

RunningKing · 08-10-2012 10:49AM

RayCun wrote: »

Depends on the plan you're on, some only have a 2 week taper. If that's what you've been following that's okay, but you shouldn't go off-plan to throw in another long run - especially not the weekend before the race.

Agreed

Duzzie · 08-10-2012 10:50AM

RayCun wrote: »

Duzzie wrote: »

I've seen a figure of 500ml to 1l per hour. The water stations on the marathon course would be about 500ml to 600ml an hour. I'd say that you need to up your intake

I disagree, drink more water and you'll be sloshing around the course. If you're not feeling thirsty with your current intake don't force yourself to drink more.

Id say it depends on the person. A more seasoned runner will be better conditioned for running on lower liquids. However most on here are doing their first marathon and therefore do not have that conditioning. For me, I'd want to finish and am less worried about a time, I'd have a bit of extra water sloshing around inside me than not have enough and become dehydrated and fall off the cliff and not be able to finish. For me, increasing my water intake made the difference between completing 32km and not completing it.

bren69 · 08-10-2012 10:53AM

Completed the 20m LSR yesteday. Was similar to previous 19m run in that the last 4 or 5 miles were run with very heavy legs and time dropped by about 30 secs per mile. Made a big effort this run to not start too fast and started at 10 m/m (planning to go with 4 hour pacers) and in the main stuck to this. Drank two 500ml Lucozade Sports (had previously only drank water) and took a couple of gels - at 10m and 16m. Felt very good for first 15 miles but then started to slow down. Off the back of a 1:47 HM a few weeks ago, I know 4:00 marathon is on the limit. Will see how I feel the next couple of weeks but might go with 4:15 or 4:30 pace groups instead.

menoscemo · 08-10-2012 10:53AM

RayCun wrote: »

I disagree, drink more water and you'll be sloshing around the course. If you're not feeling thirsty with your current intake don't force yourself to drink more.

+1 If you are having to stop to pee then you are overhydrated.
I saw an interview recently with a marathon organiser and he pointed out that no-one has actually dies in a US marathon due to dehydration but many have died due to the effects of overhydration.

My Advice is to take a drink from each station but drink to thirst. It depends a lot on the conditions of the day, if it is really warm (unlikely) it might be worth carrying the little sports bottle to the next station and sip on it all the way. If not you are probably fine to sip a little and chuck the bottle after a mile/half a mile. Either way do not guzzle down the water as this will just lead to it sloshing in your stomach and losing time to stop to pee...

menoscemo · 08-10-2012 10:57AM

Duzzie wrote: »

Id say it depends on the person. A more seasoned runner will be better conditioned for running on lower liquids. However most on here are doing their first marathon and therefore do not have that conditioning. For me, I'd want to finish and am less worried about a time, I'd have a bit of extra water sloshing around inside me than not have enough and become dehydrated and fall off the cliff and not be able to finish. For me, increasing my water intake made the difference between completing 32km and not completing it.

Again it depends on each individual runner and the conditions. If you sweat a lot then you are best replacing the fluids lost, but you should include a salt tab or electrolyte tab in the drink (or drink a sports drink) so as not to become overhydrated. Drinking too much water while losing salts will actually lead to you falling off a cliff much quicker than being a little dehydrated....

Younganne · 08-10-2012 10:58AM

menoscemo wrote: »

+1 If you are having to stop to pee then you are overhydrated.
I saw an interview recently with a marathon organiser and he pointed out that no-one has actually dies in a US marathon due to dehydration but many have died due to the effects of overhydration.

My Advice is to take a drink from each station but drink to thirst. It depends a lot on the conditions of the day, if it is really warm (unlikely) it might be worth carrying the little sports bottle to the next station and sip on it all the way. If not you are probably fine to sip a little and chuck the bottle after a mile/half a mile. Either way do not guzzle down the water as this will just lead to it sloshing in your stomach and losing time to stop to pee...

I agree with this.
My first marathon i took drinking water to a new level. I had about 750ml before the start of the race and then at every station i drank the full bottle by sipping from one water station to the next.
I ended up stopping about 6 times to go to the toilet!!!:eek:

I have to point out that my first marathon i hadn't found Boards:D

Murph_D · 08-10-2012 10:59AM

Duzzie wrote: »

Does anyone know what the elevation gain over the marathon course is. I've seen the vertical profile but it doesn't give a total for the elevation change. I've seen a figure of 550m which seems a lot, I thought it was flatter than that.

More like 130m or so. See here: http://dublinmarathon.ie/img/profile2011.gif

menoscemo · 08-10-2012 11:07AM

murphd77 wrote: »

More like 130m or so. See here: http://dublinmarathon.ie/img/profile2011.gif

For the last 2 years my garmin shows 450-500ft so approx 160-170m elevation gain in total.

Here is last years garmin link so you can see where the 'hills' are: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/125644939

RayCun · 08-10-2012 11:22AM

Duzzie wrote: »

Id say it depends on the person. A more seasoned runner will be better conditioned for running on lower liquids. However most on here are doing their first marathon and therefore do not have that conditioning. For me, I'd want to finish and am less worried about a time, I'd have a bit of extra water sloshing around inside me than not have enough and become dehydrated and fall off the cliff and not be able to finish.

Actually, the more seasoned runners are going to lose more water to sweat in the race, because they will be working harder -> have a higher body temperature -> sweat more.*

But that's beside the point. Dehydration is a problem on hot, humid days when you would be sweating while standing still. In Dublin in October, that won't be a problem. You will sweat, sure, but you don't have to replace all of that water to stay safe. Up to a litre of water during the race should be plenty. If you try to drink more, some of that water just won't be absorbed - it'll sit in your stomach, or it'll have to be pissed out. If too much is absorbed that's a bad thing, because your blood becomes thinned out.

It's better to

be well-hydrated before the race. That doesn't mean drinking pints and pints of water, but over the few days pre-race always have a drink handy, and take a sip when you're thirsty. (If you make it a sports drink then you're carb-loading too)
drink to thirst during the race. Pick up a bottle at each water station if you like, and take a few sips, but don't feel like you have to finish each bottle. Just drink when you're thirsty
after the race drink your sports drink, and for the rest of the day always have a drink handy.

* I know, you'd think it's easier for better runners. In a way it is, the more experience you have the easier it is to run at a particular pace, and the faster you can run. But the other thing that happens is that you get better at tolerating a high level of discomfort. The people at the front of the race aren't just fitter, they're pushing their limits more than someone in the midpack.

DOCO12 · 08-10-2012 11:24AM

RunningKing wrote: »

DOCO12 wrote: »

A big thumbs up for Athlone 3/4 brilliantly organised, refreshments etc. Enjoyed the chat among the fellow runners. Followed the 3.30 pacers for the most part and cheers for the tips re marathon day they gave. Weather wise the conditions were perfect! One of the pacers left us at the 1/2 marathon mark so I stayed following the rest of the group. Mile 18 was a big tester but had enough in the legs to do a fast last mile and came home in 2.44 delighted Feel allot more confident about the big day now. As regards what time I should aim for I'm still clueless?!
As regards today is it better to rest or do a few miles recovery? Thanks

Did you race the full run or was only part of it at PMP?

As I was feeling good at the 1/2 marathon mark I decided to stay with the group I was with as opposed to the pacers and push on. Hope my good day yesterday doesn't affect the 29th . As I was running I kept wondering was anyone beside me fellow
Boardies

overpronator · 08-10-2012 11:46AM

Haven't posted here in a while as I missed a little bit of training due to holidays and a increasingly painful case of ITB. Did the full week last week and felt good after the 23 or so midweek miles, apart from my knee flaring up badly again on Thursday. I strapped it up well yesterday and did my 22 mile LSR and felt great. Took a gel at 16 miles and apart from my legs feeling understandably tired at 20 I pushed on well and felt I could have done the 26. Feeling good now but worried about my knee, very stiff and sore today, as you would expect but im hoping taper will take care of it. Well done all on the LSRs at the weekend, the majority of the hard work is done now, apart from the 26.2 of course!

moggie4000 · 08-10-2012 12:51PM

overpronator wrote: »

Haven't posted here in a while as I missed a little bit of training due to holidays and a increasingly painful case of ITB. Did the full week last week and felt good after the 23 or so midweek miles, apart from my knee flaring up badly again on Thursday. I strapped it up well yesterday and did my 22 mile LSR and felt great. Took a gel at 16 miles and apart from my legs feeling understandably tired at 20 I pushed on well and felt I could have done the 26. Feeling good now but worried about my knee, very stiff and sore today, as you would expect but im hoping taper will take care of it. Well done all on the LSRs at the weekend, the majority of the hard work is done now, apart from the 26.2 of course!

Hey,

I have suffered with my ITB over the last 4-5 weeks and i can't seem to shake it off. I have been doing all the exercises i've been told to, i have a compression strap on it also and it's still quite sore after 2.5 miles. Any ideas? I am still doing the marathon even if i have to walk it but obviously i would prefer to do as much running as possible?

RunningKing · 08-10-2012 01:00PM

moggie4000 wrote: »

Hey,

I have suffered with my ITB over the last 4-5 weeks and i can't seem to shake it off. I have been doing all the exercises i've been told to, i have a compression strap on it also and it's still quite sore after 2.5 miles. Any ideas? I am still doing the marathon even if i have to walk it but obviously i would prefer to do as much running as possible?

I was in your shoes last year, hurt to run 1-2 miles. I went to a physio (Mark Kenneally in Celbridge) and he fixed it up after 1 visit - nearly made me cry though:eek:.
Also, the stretch that most benefited me afterwards was a glute stretch. Foam rolling was also very beneficial. I've been doing this and haven't had a reoccurance of ITB since last year.

Due to my injury and lack of training and a very unwise decision to run with 3:30 pacers, I blew up on the course, so make sure you choose your pace wisely.

moggie4000 · 08-10-2012 01:02PM

RunningKing wrote: »

I was in your shoes last year, hurt to run 1-2 miles. I went to a physio (Mark Kenneally in Celbridge) and he fixed it up after 1 visit - nearly made me cry though:eek:.
Also, the stretch that most benefited me afterwards was a glute stretch. Foam rolling was also very beneficial. I've been doing this and haven't had a reoccurance of ITB since last year.

Due to my injury and lack of training and a very unwise decision to run with 3:30 pacers, I blew up on the course, so make sure you choose your pace wisely.

I did go to a local physio who nearly left me crying too but still can't seem to shake it. Is it possible to get a painkilling injection before the marathon as it's a really frustrating injury?!

RayCun · 08-10-2012 01:04PM

moggie4000 wrote: »

I did go to a local physio who nearly left me crying too but still can't seem to shake it. Is it possible to get a painkilling injection before the marathon as it's a really frustrating injury?!

Risk doing permanent damage to get yourself around a single race?

RunningKing · 08-10-2012 01:07PM

RayCun wrote: »

Risk doing permanent damage to get yourself around a single race?

+1 to that.

I didn't enjoy last years experience, If I could go back and change it I wouldn't have ran it and picked a race later in the year where I could have had a more enjoyable experience.
Theres always other marathons............

moggie4000 · 08-10-2012 01:09PM

RunningKing wrote: »

+1 to that.

I didn't enjoy last years experience, If I could go back and change it I wouldn't have ran it and picked a race later in the year where I could have had a more enjoyable experience.
Theres always other marathons............

I understand guys but i'm still going to do it. This will be my first and last marathon, not thinking of doing another so i just need to get around it.

midnightrun · 08-10-2012 01:10PM

Same deal as above i had IT trouble went and got a sports massage turned out my quads were very very tight. I also needed to build up my glutes and my hams as they were weak. as a result there was an imbalance. carried out all the exercises i was told to and haven't had any problems in that dept. since ! unfortunately i now have an ankle problem ! it never ends !

lmguillou · 08-10-2012 01:17PM

moggie4000 wrote: »

I understand guys but i'm still going to do it. This will be my first and last marathon, not thinking of doing another so i just need to get around it.

I said that 3 years ago ( running marathon was a bet ) and after the race I was already thinking of doing another one in the next coming year, unfortunately I had to wait but here Iam preparing for my second marathon and hoping to do more. My first marathon was such an amazing experience that I want to do it again... Of course if you are considering running this marathon with an injury, that may be a nightmare and for sure you may not want to do it anymore, even worse you may not be able to...

Ah_go_on · 08-10-2012 01:23PM

Ah_go_on wrote: »

I'm looking for a bit of advice RE tapering. Following the hh novice 2 program and everything was going great until the week of the dublin half marathon where I caught a bad dose and missed it along with the previous midweeks. Managed the 19 miler the following week but missed all the following midweek runs and 12 mile lsr last week as I got a sinus infection. Got back into it this week with a couple of 5 milers and today's 20 which I really struggled with in the last 3 miles. I'm wondering how to taper now as I've missed a lot of runs over the past few weeks, should I do more this week??
Was originally hoping to finish in around four hours, all my pace runs were geared towards it and lsr's around 10:20/mile but I think I now need to change that target.

I've missed so many runs over the last 3 weeks that I don't feel I need (or deserve) a lot of rest from the planned taper. Was thinking of doing an 8 miler pace run on Wednesday instead of a 4 miler and increasing the weekends LSR to 14 or 15 from 12. As stated above I've missed most of the runs on both the step back weeks after 18 and 19 miles (13 and 12 mile LSR's are the only LSRs I didn't do). Anybody offer their opinions on this???

Pacing Mule · 08-10-2012 02:26PM

Went out for a long cycle today instead of a LSR to give injury some more time to heal. Haven't been on a bike in 2 years so this may not have been a good idea ! 3.5 hours later I have myself a sore ass

and very sore thighs which obviously haven't been getting a workout when running. Was close to a standstill towards the end but good news is 3.5 hours of cardio with no issues. (I know it's not as intense as running cardio but it's a big step on the road to recovery)

tomred1N · 08-10-2012 02:34PM

Did the 20 mile lsr yesterday in 3:18. Felt better than previous 18 mile and inccreased pace ever so slightly for final four miles to see if i had much left. miscalculated route and had to run a 150m steep hill just at the end( had planned to be finished here where i could walk home) motored up hill to do last mile in 9:40. Only 3 months ago i struggled worse on this hill at end of 7 mile lsr. Even walked the dogs 4 miles later to loosen the legs!
i think my lsr pace is my race pace and if i could add another six 10 min miles to yesterdays run that'll do me. I say this like its no bother but i think the suffering is to really come in those last few miles. I cannot run 11 min miles to have a race pace of 10 min miles so i hope these gels will keep me going as im not sure about fat burning. i have ultra marathon capability if i could access my natural resources!
Thanks to advice here i got a belt for 4 gels and carried them yesterday (took 2 at 8 and 15 miles) and also got nike compression shorts for first time. god i wish i had these last few months!
Finally i drink about 10 pints of water day before lsr and yesterday i drank about 400mls of lucoxade sport at mile 1,12 and 19 i dont seem to get that thirsty at all but i do sweat a lot so i think the lucozade helps a bit like the gels, better than water for me as less inclined to need to stop for pee.
Anyway great to read reports and best of luck to everyone over next few weeks

overpronator · 08-10-2012 02:56PM

moggie4000 wrote: »

Hey,

I have suffered with my ITB over the last 4-5 weeks and i can't seem to shake it off. I have been doing all the exercises i've been told to, i have a compression strap on it also and it's still quite sore after 2.5 miles. Any ideas? I am still doing the marathon even if i have to walk it but obviously i would prefer to do as much running as possible?

Its a tough one, Ive had it on and off for a few months now, it came on really really bad though the week after the Dublin half, I only ran 10 miles that week and didn't do a LSR that weekend. After nearly a weeks rest it was ok for a couple of runs but flared up big time after a tempo run last week. I had tried a simple strap about an inch and a half thick just above the knee but it didn't really help so I got a full knee compression job, its just a piece of elasticated cotton really but very very tight and that did help. I find it only bothers me when I do runs at a fast pace, luckily my marathon pace doesn't seem to annoy it too much (touch wood) but i can see it bothering me at that pace eventually though. The only thing I have found that really works for it is rest, I know that's not what you want to hear. Id watch your pace for the remaining runs in the lead up to the marathon and ice it well after each run. Also do a decent stretch every day, muscle groups like hamstrings, quads and glutes being tight can cause it to hurt more I've found. Best of luck, hope it clears up for you, I know what a pisser it is when its hurting.

Fearg72 · 08-10-2012 03:21PM

Hello. First Post. Getting nervous about the run. Anyway, here's my background:

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Have done many triathlons over the last number of years. But going for first marathon this year, so even though I'm 40 all PBs from this year and they are usually PBs because they are the only time that I have raced and been offically times over that distance..
10k PB: 42.24 2012
20 Mile PB 2.41.24
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? No problem if you do!
No
How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant.
5 or 6 runs per week about 55 miles plus two crosstraining sessions per week.
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time?
Sub 3.30
How many days a week can you train?
6
Why are you running this marathon?
Turned 40!

So I have been following the training schedule on the Dublin marathon website and reading the web etc to educate myself. I am getting nervous because I feel that I have put a lot or preparation / training miles in the bank and now I want to get my best possible time.

For the 20 miler just over a week ago, I did the fast finish long run recommended by the McMillan Website. These were my splits:
First 5 miles 42:20
Second 5 miles 42:35
Third 5 miles 39:02
Fourth 5 miles 37:21 (mile splits for the last 5 miles were 7:20, 07:35, 07:28, 07:29, 07:29)

My question to any experienced runners is for advice on what my optimal race pace should be. I want to do the best time possible. I am not content with just finishing. Although, to be honest, I am intimidated by the distance.

Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

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