Kimmage seeks criminal investigation into Vebruggen/McQuaid - Mod Warning Post #1

Luis21 · 08-10-2012 12:11PM

The buck has to stop with the UCI, they are the governing body. They know all about what goes on in the peloton, therefore it is not really unfair to criticize the 2 main protagonists in that body, namely McQuaid and HV.

The reasoning behind their lack of action in regards to doping is simple. Money.

Lets turn the clock back to 1998. The Festina affair. Cycling is suddenly on its arse. Nobody wants to watch a sport where its obvious everyone is cheating. The UCI need to turn things around. Step forward the man that beat cancer. The American man that beat cancer. The man that was never good enough to perform well in his previous TDF but is suddenly invincible. The man that can really open up cycling to the 300 million Americans better than Hampsten ever could. The Marketing dream that is Lance Armstrong. Nike jump all over it, Oakley follow, now we've got the big bucks flowing it. US Postal are now competing for the yellow jersey ..... The UCI are back on their feet.

The marketing steamroller wont be stopped. Lance tests positive, brush it under the carpet, keep him in yellow. Alp D'uez becomes a hill as Lance sprints up it. Nobody says anything. Nobody questions how he can do it. Anyone that does is cast aside from the sport. Bassons, Simeoni, even Greg Lemond have their names tarnished.

So the Cancer Man wins 7 TDFs, cheating in all of them. He knows it, his teammates know it and the UCI know it. Its cheating, plain and simple. All Kimmage wants is someone to answer for this cheating.

morana · 08-10-2012 12:23PM

2 Wheels Good wrote: »

At the end of the day, does it matter or affect most of us what happens in Pro cycling, not really. But, it will make us stop watching cycling on TV, going to watch races if they're on, and encouraging the next generation to take up cycling as anything other than a method of getting from A to B. Sponsorship will dry up, people won't buy AnnHs cycling magazines and the world will move on.
This piece of diving from Liverpools Suarez over the weekend is a good example of another sport that I love that I'm fast losing interest in if this kind of thing isn't stamped out.
This is more important that the Paul Kimmages and Pat McQuaids of the world, Paul Kimmage is aware of this, I don't think the UCI is, and they need to wake up to that!

FFS suarez is brought into everything!

wav1 · 08-10-2012 12:26PM

el tel wrote: »

Anyone reckon Paul Kimmage has ever had a read boards.ie or this thread?
Better still, does anyone know him (I assume he lives in Ireland still)?

<snip>

Yes he still lives in Ireland,and yes I know him.Actually trained with him when we were kids and his family had a caravan at seaside not far from us.If ever there were a family that were passionate about the sport this was one of them.Havn't actually seen him sinch he launched the Ras book for Tom Daly in Dublin city centre in 2003 [where Pat Mc Quaid was also present].I would say that deep inside he still has a passion for the sport,but the events of the past 20 yrs or so are just burning him up.Funny enough I always had plenty of time for Mc Quaid also.At the ''Worlds'' in Stuttgart in 2007,when hearing about a mutual pal who was ill at the time,and has since passed away,he took note of his address and a week or so later the uci photo year book arrived for him with a personal note attached.I think its really sad that 2 guys who had a good relationship back in the day,will end up in a Swiss court in this regard.

RobFowl · 08-10-2012 12:26PM

morana wrote: »

FFS suarez is brought into everything!

I know even though it's a fact that LA, Pat McQuaid and Heinricus Verbruggen are all die hard Man U supporters.........

ednwireland · 08-10-2012 12:27PM

2 Wheels Good wrote: »

This piece of diving from Liverpools Suarez over the weekend is a good example of another sport that I love that I'm fast losing interest in if this kind of thing isn't stamped out.

funny was talking at the weekend why i dont watch much Premiership soccer any more and this was one of the reasons as i'm usually shouting at the telly going get up you f******g wimp, its seems theres a generation of players who would rather dive than try and score a goal

TheBlaaMan · 08-10-2012 12:45PM

At the risk of suggesting that something said on an internet forum actually represents a reality...........perhaps things on this topic are moving along...
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1044781&postcount=423

Wibbs · 08-10-2012 01:13PM

RobFowl wrote: »

Couldn't agree with you more. I've a vested interest but think doctors behaved disgracefully over the last few years.
Effectively pushed drugs and transfusions as a money making racket with substantial risk to the cyclists.
I think the likes of Ferrari, Fuentes et al should have been struck off the registers or warned at the very least. Not just the UCI but medical regulation in EU especially does not come out of this well.

From what Tyler Hamilton wrote Spain in particular was very lax in this regard at the time. These "doctors" were rogue elements in the profession out for the big bucks, but yea the medical authorities were slow to investigate.

wav1 wrote: »

I think its really sad that 2 guys who had a good relationship back in the day,will end up in a Swiss court in this regard.

+1.

As Luis21 wrote it was all to do with getting and keeping the money t drive the sport and popularise it in new regions. Armstrong was a gift for that. The money really started to flow in. The money the top guys get is massively higher than their equivalents in the 80's and 70's etc. Even the domestiques have risen with the tide. That's hard to turn backs on. Doubly hard for the UCI. They painted themselves into their own corner and now they're stuck. Suing Kimmage was beyond daft though. Maybe they've taken lessons from Armstrongs methods and saw they've worked up to recently.

fran oconnor · 08-10-2012 01:24PM

morana wrote: »

FFS suarez is brought into everything!

And he should when cheating is the topic.

Captain Havoc · 08-10-2012 01:28PM

ednwireland wrote: »

funny was talking at the weekend why i dont watch much scoccer any more and this was one of the reasons as i'm usually shouting at the telly going get up you f******g wimp, its seems theres a generation of players who would rather dive than try and score a goal

This is something that saddens me. There was someone who came on here to say that they wouldn't let their son become a competitive cyclist because of all the cheating. To me a sport is much more that, the pros at the top only make up a very small percent of the competitive cyclists in the world. So Suarez made a dive at the weekend? I couldn't give a s**t, I scored a beauty at five a side last Wednesday even though I played terribly. Lance Armstrong is about to lose his seven Tour de Frances? F**ck him, I got Raid Pyrenéen medal in July.

There's so much more happening in sport than to watch over-paid cheaters. I regularly go to league of Ireland matches, which are entertaining, the Rás is a top cycle race on our own doorstep. I will still watch the premier league and the tour but there's so much more to watch and get a different feel from and be involved.

SWL · 08-10-2012 01:35PM

I have personally contributed to the PK fund. I don’t believe the UCI or its main protagonists should be wasting time dragging PK to court to pursue a childish like case against him.

But it’s disappointing to read on this board, so many negative, nasty and distasteful comments about the McQuaids who have contributed many positives things to the development of the sport in Ireland.

Pat McQuaid’s siblings are backing him all the way; a perfectly natural and honourably thing to do when a close family member is under pressure.

I think we should reserve and point our anger at Pat McQuaid the President of the UCI rather than Pat McQuaid the man and his family members.

Flandria · 08-10-2012 01:55PM

SWL wrote: »

I have personally contributed to the PK fund. I don’t believe the UCI or its main protagonists should be wasting time dragging PK to court to pursue a childish like case against him.

But it’s disappointing to read on this board, so many negative, nasty and distasteful comments about the McQuaids who have contributed many positives things to the development of the sport in Ireland.

Pat McQuaid’s siblings are backing him all the way; a perfectly natural and honourably thing to do when a close family member is under pressure.

I think we should reserve and point our anger at Pat McQuaid the President of the UCI rather than Pat McQuaid the man and his family members.

Not so sure about distasteful comments here about family members other than Pat, I haven't seen many. It might be relevant to suggest how much easier it might be for family members to operate successful businesses as bicycle importers and distributors, bicycle hire, touring holidays, race organisers, and sports agents with a direct relation as major domo of the sport's governing body...

Lumen · 08-10-2012 01:56PM

SWL wrote: »

But it’s disappointing to read on this board, so many negative, nasty and distasteful comments about the McQuaids who have contributed many positives things to the development of the sport in Ireland.

I just searched the whole thread for references to "McQuaid". The only comments I could find (amongst many, many references) that might possibly be considered "nasty and distasteful" were:

"Plus, since McQuaid is sueing PK under Swiss law I now view him as one of those cuckoo clock wielding, toblerone-eating clowns."

and

"PMcQ may not himself be the problem, but he is the figurehead for the UCI and if he is not directly culpable he is at a minimum (my opinion) a sorry puppet for the machinations of Hein Verbruggen who is most definitely at the root of the UCI's problems."

So one clown reference and one puppet reference. What did I miss?

Lumen · 08-10-2012 02:00PM

Flandria wrote: »

It might be relevant to suggest how much easier it might be for family members to operate successful businesses as bicycle importers and distributors, bicycle hire, touring holidays, race organisers, and sports agents with a direct relation as major domo of the sport's governing body...

That's a bit of a stretch. "We must get to the heart of the corruption at the heart of Phoenix Park bike hire!" :pac:

I don't see any reason to to doubt the diligence, talent, or honesty of any member of the family other than Pat, who has made a target of himself by (a) demonstrably failing to tackle the problems in the sport, and (b) suing Paul Kimmage.

Flandria · 08-10-2012 02:06PM

Lumen wrote: »

That's a bit of a stretch. "We must get to the heart of the corruption at the heart of Phoenix Park bike hire!" :pac:

I don't see any reason to to doubt the diligence, talent, or honesty of any member of the family other than Pat, who has made a target of himself by (a) demonstrably failing to tackle the problems in the sport, and (b) suing Paul Kimmage.

Normally I would agree but if said President is strongly rumoured to have shown favour to individual riders and teams outside of the parameters of the rulebook (we all know who) then it's fair to speculate IMO

Lumen · 08-10-2012 02:06PM

Flandria wrote: »

Normally I would agree but if said President is strongly rumoured to have shown favour to individual riders and teams outside of the parameters of the rulebook (we all know who) then it's fair to speculate IMO

Not here it isn't.

SWL · 08-10-2012 02:19PM

Flandria wrote: »

Not so sure about distasteful comments here about family members other than Pat, I haven't seen many. It might be relevant to suggest how much easier it might be for family members to operate successful businesses as bicycle importers and distributors, bicycle hire, touring holidays, race organisers, and sports agents with a direct relation as major domo of the sport's governing body...

I know absolutely nothing about the McQuaids and any business interest they have, I do know they have been heavily involved in Irish cycling going back to their father and uncles time, there are many ex cyclists, mechanics etc. who have built successful businesses in Ireland around cycling shops, tours etc.

I also know many international runners who have built successful business around the sport of running, possibly based on connections they developed during their time in the sport and the knowledge of what is required by those who part take in the sport. I can only assume that an interest and knowledge of the sport the members of the family saw a commercial opportunity and cycled with it (see what I did there)

That is the way every business works, almost exclusively on whom you know and the knowledge of the market place. If there is something “shady” about it by all means highlight it.

As I said attack PMQ the head of the UCI for their incompetence; my post was highlighting that some posters in my opinion had stepped over the line and it don’t add anything of merit to the discussion.

buffalo · 08-10-2012 02:54PM

Lumen wrote: »

"Plus, since McQuaid is sueing PK under Swiss law I now view him as one of those cuckoo clock wielding, toblerone-eating clowns."

We should probably remove that comment from boards, in case the poster was Landis and we're now in breach of the Swiss ruling. :pac:

Beasty · 08-10-2012 03:16PM

Although it's fair to discuss Pat McQuaid and his actions, his family are not party to this legal action and are off-topic in this thread. The fact that a family member has posted does not mean that poster or other members of the family should be discussed

In addition, speculation over the activities of Pat McQuaid, the UCI or anyone else is not permitted. If you cannot back up your assertions with publicly available evidence, then don't post them here.

I shall repeat this warning in the OP so no-one can claim to have missed it

Thanks

Beasty

torturedsoul · 08-10-2012 03:31PM

paul is active enough on Twitter today. Lots of quotes from the Dave Brailsford article in the Scotsman. Me thinks Paul ain't too enamored by him either

SWL · 08-10-2012 03:33PM

Lumen wrote: »

I just searched the whole thread for references to "McQuaid". The only comments I could find (amongst many, many references) that might possibly be considered "nasty and distasteful" were:

"Plus, since McQuaid is sueing PK under Swiss law I now view him as one of those cuckoo clock wielding, toblerone-eating clowns."

and

"PMcQ may not himself be the problem, but he is the figurehead for the UCI and if he is not directly culpable he is at a minimum (my opinion) a sorry puppet for the machinations of Hein Verbruggen who is most definitely at the root of the UCI's problems."

So one clown reference and one puppet reference. What did I miss?

Yes you missed a more than a few, As highlighted in my post I suggested that Pat McQuaid as President of the UCI is open to criticism much of it warranted. Comments about members of the McQuaid family, there vocal support for their brother and subsequently following my initial post their business interest have no baring on the case being taken by Pat McQuaid against Paul Kimmage.

There was a time in Ireland when family members were “off limits” especially when they have no act in any public proceedings, like many things in Ireland that appears to have changed and not for the better.

Maybe some empathy and a little class for members of both families who are indirectly affected by this case, rather than the now customary tabloid mob mentality from some posters.

Funkyzeit · 08-10-2012 03:35PM

The entertainment continues:

Paul Kimmage ‏@PaulKimmage
Dear Pat McQuaid, I hope you have a better grasp of the facts than that mutt on boards.ie purporting to be your sister.

Paul Kimmage ‏@PaulKimmage
...because believe me, you'll be in trouble if you don't.

Green Diesel · 08-10-2012 03:36PM

2m Paul Kimmage ‏@PaulKimmage
Dear Pat McQuaid, I hope you have a better grasp of the facts than that mutt on boards.ie purporting to be your sister.

Paul Kimmage ‏@PaulKimmage
...because believe me, you'll be in trouble if you don't.

Twitter just now https://twitter.com/PaulKimmage

tunney · 08-10-2012 03:39PM

Who is the mutt????????

Lumen · 08-10-2012 03:40PM

SWL wrote: »

Yes you missed a more than a few

Quote them then.

SWL wrote: »

There was a time in Ireland when family members were “off limits” especially when they have no act in any public proceedings, like many things in Ireland that appears to have changed and not for the better.

The family wasn't mentioned until Ms McQuaid posted. Are you suggesting that we're not allowed to challenge the publicly-aired opinions of people who are related? If so, that's absurd.

torturedsoul · 08-10-2012 03:48PM

I think Paul should be very careful with his bullish tweets. I would hate for anything he says on there coming against him

Undercover Elephant · 08-10-2012 03:52PM

torturedsoul wrote: »

paul is active enough on Twitter today. Lots of quotes from the Dave Brailsford article in the Scotsman. Me thinks Paul ain't too enamored by him either

Does he like anybody?

SWL · 08-10-2012 03:57PM

Lumen wrote: »

Quote them then.

The family wasn't mentioned until Ms McQuaid posted. Are you suggesting that we're not allowed to challenge the publicly-aired opinions of people who are related? If so, that's absurd.

I can't quote them because a Mod has deleted them. If you wish you may highlight the sentence where I suggested that individuals cannot be challenged, however the subsequent remarks are my issue.

I don't support Pat or the UCI especially in this case, however it appears some posters have a lower social etiquette than others, I simply highlighted my disappointed that remarks were made against family members who are not responsible for the court case, you are free to continue to disagree with this view but it is view I will continue to hold. But if we are to follow that view point Lance Armstrong’s mother better go into hiding.

el tel · 08-10-2012 03:58PM

torturedsoul wrote: »

I think Paul should be very careful with his bullish tweets. I would hate for anything he says on there coming against him

I agree. I mean, it is possible that the poster in question is not a sister of the UCI president. Anyone can easily claim to be anyone else.

Yours,
Spartacus.

Lumen · 08-10-2012 04:04PM

SWL wrote: »

I can't quote them because a Mod has deleted them.

Ah right. It's a bit of a non-discussion then.

SWL wrote: »

If you wish you may highlight the sentence where I suggested that individuals cannot be challenged

I assumed that's what you meant by...

SWL wrote: »

There was a time in Ireland when family members were “off limits”

RobFowl · 08-10-2012 04:05PM

el tel wrote: »

I agree. I mean, it is possible that the poster in question is not a sister of the UCI president. Anyone can easily claim to be anyone else.

Yours,
Spartacus.

TBF he did say the "mutt purporting to be" Pat Mcquaids sister...

(Have already posted saying the personal comments and insults were not on)