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Is It Illogical To Buy Saorview In the Border Regions?

  • 05-10-2012 01:23PM
    #1
    eirman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭


    I have come to the conclusion that it just doesn't make sense to purchase any kind of Saorview equipment, if you have a decent signal from the North (which I have).

    I bought a Saorview TV recently and I regret it. It's DVB-T only, so I won't be able to view HD from the north. (DVB-T2 required). I'd rather have 11 or 12 HD channels compared the present 1 (max 4).

    I don't care where the Irish channels first appear in my EPG .... I can sort them and/or use favourites.

    My next TV or PVR will be purchased in the north and will be DVB-T2 compliant.

    Any flaws in my logic?


«13

Comments

  • #2
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    What make and model is the TV. Some Saorview approved TV's are also Freeview HD approved.


  • #3
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    It's always said on www.saortv.info that it may make more sense in Border areas to get UK Freeview HD, but to check compatibility. A small number of UK "Freeview HD" models work poorly or not at all on Saorview.

    Saorview items certified after 2013 will be able to receive UK "Freeview HD" in areas that have a signal.

    http://www.saortv.info/free-uk-tv/


  • #4
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,203 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    eirman wrote: »
    Any flaws in my logic?

    Don't rule out all Saorview approved TVs, as STB says above some Saorview approved TV come with a DVB-T2 tuner e.g. the Sony approved TVs here with models nos. ending with 3 or 4 - http://www.saorview.ie/product/sony/. There are others.


  • #5
    doney84
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 375 ✭✭doney84


    Living close to the border myself and get decent signal from Divis. Purchased the Samsung ES5500 which is Saorview & Freeview HD approved. So far so good with it picking up both sets of channels and when the 24th comes hopefully I'll also have the Freeview HD channels. Great tv, one EPG lists all channels and you can arrange them in any order you want. MHEG 5 text works on both the Irish & English stations.


  • #6
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,203 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    eirman wrote: »
    My next TV or PVR will be purchased in the north and will be DVB-T2 compliant.

    If you opt for one of the new Samsung smart PVRs perhaps you could post how it handles the recording of both Saorview and Freeview together. It's been asked over in the thread discussing that PVR but with no reply - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80989142#post80989142


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  • #7
    In the old days
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 120 ✭✭In the old days


    eirman wrote: »
    I don't care where the Irish channels first appear in my EPG .... I can sort them and/or use favourites.

    My next TV or PVR will be purchased in the north and will be DVB-T2 compliant.

    Any flaws in my logic?

    Some issues can exist with Freeview HD equipment/TVs. EPG timer, rearranging channel lnumbers, handling old style teletext etc. can all be hit and miss. You would need to sure of your priorities and do your research to avoid frustration.


  • #8
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Products with both Saorview and Freeview HD certification (common)

    Samsung

    UE**D4010
    UE**D5000PK
    LE**D550 / LN**D550
    PS**D450
    UE**D6510

    LG
    **LV355T
    **PT353K
    **LW550T
    **LW450U

    Sony
    KDL-**EX524
    KDL-**NX723
    KDL-**EX723

    Toshiba
    **VL863

    ** stands for screen size (can be 32/37/42 etc)


  • #9
    bridster007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 417 ✭✭bridster007


    The Cush wrote: »
    If you opt for one of the new Samsung smart PVRs perhaps you could post how it handles the recording of both Saorview and Freeview together. It's been asked over in the thread discussing that PVR but with no reply - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80989142#post80989142

    Likely to have issues with a PVR.
    See this thread with sound problems for Panasonic Freeview HD recorder.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056521967

    Also problems with Sony SVR HDT Freeview HD recorder, can't timer record from SV and FV at same time.
    Humax Fox T2 HDR loses SV epg when on the FV system and vice versa.


  • #10
    sesswhat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭sesswhat


    One thing I would add is that the manufacturers seem to be restricting DVB-T2 tuners to their higher specification TVs. If you are buying a high spec TV anyway, then there may not be much price difference between one with DVB-T2 and one without.

    On the other hand, for a basic TV for a kitchen/bedroom (or for a less bells and whistles obsessed relative), the price difference can be huge.

    Just as an example, a popular 32in LCD is this LG 32CS460 available from Amazon for £209.99.

    The T2 version 32CS460T seems to be only available in Scandanavian and E European markets.

    Meanwhile, the cheapest 32in Freeview HD 2012 model LG from Amazon seems to be the 32LS570T at £388.99.

    The story is similar for Samsung, with the Freeview HD models starting at around double the price of the basic models.

    For many, the improvement in picture quality of the Freeview HD channels may not be an issue at smaller screen sizes and so the longeivity of the SD simulcasts may be the biggest concern.

    Perhaps if the DVB-T SD channels are to be phased out, the sequence in which it happens may follow DSO, and so NI's SD channels would be safe for a good many years to come.


  • #11
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    sesswhat wrote: »

    Perhaps if the DVB-T SD channels are to be phased out, the sequence in which it happens may follow DSO, and so NI's SD channels would be safe for a good many years to come.

    Perhaps they could have gone straight to DVB-T2 for a few of the muxes in NI, say for one or two of the com muxes. Not sure if we could hear the screams of protest here in Dublin if they had.


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  • #12
    reslfj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 883 ✭✭✭reslfj


    sesswhat wrote: »
    One thing I would add is that the manufacturers seem to be restricting DVB-T2 tuners to their higher specification TVs.

    Now - it's done only as a marketing tool to get better average prices.

    When DVB-T2 is needed for Saorview approval as it will from 2013 - very few and 'very discount' DVB-T models will remain on the market. This could have been mandated with few problems and likely very little extra cost to consumers - from say a little into 2011.

    Business should just have been told - in no uncertain terms - and they would have delivered - and in all price groups.

    Lars :)


  • #13
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Demand for non DVB-T2 will start to drop in UK in the next year. When they are not producing DVB-T only for UK any longer there will be 6 months of low prices and "product dumping" of obsolete models.

    So DVB-T2 will be at current DVB-T prices by end 2013 or early 2014. No doubt Maplin will still be selling generic MPEG2 & DVB-T only portable TVs in 2013 & 2014. In Ireland and UK.


  • #14
    eirman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭eirman


    reslfj wrote: »
    When DVB-T2 is needed for Saorview approval as it will from 2013

    That's big news to me .... and if it's true, it's just plain daft!

    So most of the present Saorview TVs won't be up to spec next year? Will vendors have to remove the approved sticker from present stock after a certain date?

    What date are we talking about in 2013?


  • #15
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,203 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    eirman wrote: »
    That's big news to me .... and if it's true, it's just plain daft!

    So most of the present Saorview TVs won't be up to spec next year? Will vendors have to remove the approved sticker from present stock after a certain date?

    What date are we talking about in 2013?

    1st Jan 2013 for any new receivers submitted for testing and approval.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80777591#post80777591

    There are no plans to use DVB-T2, just a future proofing exercise. Your existing Saorview approved receiver will be up to spec for many years to come.


  • #16
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    It's very sensible to bring it in at start of 2013. By then no extra cost.
    No-one in UK should have been buying other than DVB-T2 HD in the last year. From this November 2012 UK purchasers will be more aware of it.

    It's likely the new certification will only apply to new stock and especially new models. So as I suggested earlier there will be plenty of DVB-T only stock on sale in 2013. But it's good news for people upgrading TVs or PVRs in Border areas in 2013, they will be able to choose Saorview T2 or Freeview HD and a higher likelihood of PVR that works properly on both systems.


  • #17
    Pangea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,584 ✭✭✭Pangea


    STB wrote: »
    Products with both Saorview and Freeview HD certification (common)

    I have a Sony 32EX403, I don't think it came with a Saorview certification as such, but it is Freeview HD and Saorview capable.
    Although as I said before on here the epg for Saorview isn't working properly for the 7 day guide, only gives me information for now and next.
    I wonder has there been any progress made on this on Sony's part, there was quite a few complaints about this.


  • #18
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Pangea wrote: »
    I have a Sony 32EX403, I don't think it came with a Saorview certification as such, but it is Freeview HD and Saorview capable.
    Although as I said before on here the epg for Saorview isn't working properly for the 7 day guide, only gives me information for now and next.
    I wonder has there been any progress made on this on Sony's part, there was quite a few complaints about this.

    The list I posted is only TV's that have both Freeview HD and Saorview Certification.

    There are only 3 Sony lines at present that fit this criteria. The 403 isnt in that list. It isnt Saorview certified.

    There are plenty of TVs despite no certification that work fine or just partly. Certification is just peace of mind that whatever is thrown at will work. Having said that picking the country profile at setup (even on a multi certified TV) will dictate what is turned on and turned off in the firmware of the TV for your chosen country as they are pan European TV's with varied certifications.

    Only people (living in border overspill areas) who have these multi certified TV's will be able to find out what works to their satisfaction by trying the UK country setup and then Irish country setup and seeing how the implementations affect one or the other country's services. Example is using the Ireland in setup but perhaps finding out that it turns off the tuning in of DVB-T2 services in the firmware. Trial and error. The thing with a multi certified TV is that you at least know that picking one will definitely give you the choice.

    On your issue with a Freeview HD product (that doesnt have Saorview certification) do you have an option on your 403 to pick a different country at setup ? If you choose France, it may solve your problem with the epg, but you may loose MHEG text (as the French use MHP). That may be an acceptable compromise for you whilst you wait for Sony to solve your issue with a firmware update, if they do these things these days, I doubt it. They may point you to their certified products for Saorview!


  • #19
    zg3409
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,174 ✭✭✭zg3409


    So I suppose the next question is which TV works 100% with every feature in border areas on both Freeview HD and Saorview at least with the current broadcasts.


  • #20
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    It's complicated by the fact that many TVs can work perfectly for Freeview OR Saorview, but even if certified for both don't sensibly integrate EPG and Interactive if both signals can be tuned at the same time.

    LCN of course can't work properly for both at the same time. One service has to "win" or some other user controlled method of channel ordering/selection.


  • #21
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Hopefully, there could be a migration between the two standards to increase compatibility between the two standards. The UK standard only applies to the UK so they could move towards Nordig with no other problems. Because both Saorview and Freeview allow over the air upgrades (OTA), the two standards could change with no effect on viewers.

    With Pan-European sets, this makes sense for the manufacturers who could be the drivers in this. It makes for lower manufacturing costs. I would think the EU could also have an interest as well.


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  • #22
    formerly scottish paddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 545 ✭✭✭formerly scottish paddy


    It would certainly be sensible for a common standard within the EU as you say, and I am sure all equipment manufacturers would be pushing for it.


  • #23
    Pangea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,584 ✭✭✭Pangea


    STB wrote: »
    The list I posted is only

    On your issue with a Freeview HD product (that doesnt have Saorview certification) do you have an option on your 403 to pick a different country at setup ? If you choose France, it may solve your problem with the epg, but you may loose MHEG text (as the French use MHP). That may be an acceptable compromise for you whilst you wait for Sony to solve your issue with a firmware update, if they do these things these days, I doubt it. They may point you to their certified products for Saorview!

    Good thinking, I just changed the country to 'UK' to see if I could get any Freeview channels, after searching for channels it just tuned in the Saorview channels again, although on top of the epg it said 'Freeview' and all the Saorview channels were labelled in the 800s instead of the 100s, but the signal obviously wasn't strong enough to pick any Freeview up. It was worth a try though


  • #24
    sesswhat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭sesswhat


    STB wrote: »
    Products with both Saorview and Freeview HD certification (common)

    Samsung

    UE**D4010
    UE**D5000PK
    LE**D550 / LN**D550
    PS**D450
    UE**D6510

    LG
    **LV355T
    **PT353K
    **LW550T
    **LW450U

    Sony
    KDL-**EX524
    KDL-**NX723
    KDL-**EX723

    Toshiba
    **VL863

    ** stands for screen size (can be 32/37/42 etc)

    The official Freeview site can be a bit slow to update and so some of the above may be older models and harder to source. Part of the problem with Freeview HD is getting access to a definitive list of products. The WHICH website does let you filter models they have reviewed by a number of criteria, including Freeview HD. This link shows Samsung, LG, Sony and Toshiba models, along with the date reviewed and UK prices. The Currys UK site allows you to use similar filters.

    I can't vouch for the accuracy of either site of course but they may be a good starting point. Everything could subsequently be checked for Saorview approval.


  • #25
    JonathonS
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 702 ✭✭✭JonathonS


    Its not only Freeview or Saorview that may not have a full listing of approved products. Manufacturers themselves sometimes struggle to keep their sites updated. Sony have an Irish and a UK site, the Irish site states that all of their TVs are Saorview approved and gives a list. A check of the TV specs on the UK site shows that all models have T2 tuners, but not all of the models on the Irish site are listed.

    Conclusion - all 2012 model Sony TVs are Saorview approved and have Freeview HD tuners.

    All Panasonic 2012 TVs have Freeview HD tuners, but not all are Saorview approved. A search for "Saorview" on the Panasonic UK and Ireland site comes up with no results.....

    All 2012 Samsung TVs are Saorview approved, but only some have T2 tuners. Check individual models on Samsung site.

    LG is another whose site does not recognise Saorview. All 2012 TV models are Saorview approved, only half have T2 tuners.

    Toshiba does give results for Saorview but its Saorview approved range is far larger than this search reveals. RL953 models and above have T2 tuners, and all are Saorview approved.


  • #26
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Conclusion - all 2012 model Sony TVs are Saorview approved and have Freeview HD tuners.
    I can't see that conclusion. Unless there are no non-UK / Ireland models here and all models are the same for Ireland or UK.


  • #27
    JonathonS
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 702 ✭✭✭JonathonS


    watty wrote: »
    I can't see that conclusion. Unless there are no non-UK / Ireland models here and all models are the same for Ireland or UK.

    All TV models on the Sony Ireland site have a T2 tuner.


  • #28
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,203 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    JonathonS wrote: »
    All TV models on the Sony Ireland site have a T2 tuner.

    This one doesn't nor this one nor this one etc. etc.

    Not all TV models on the Sony Ireland site have a T2 tuner.


  • #29
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    sesswhat wrote: »
    The official Freeview site can be a bit slow to update and so some of the above may be older models and harder to source. Part of the problem with Freeview HD is getting access to a definitive list of products. The WHICH website does let you filter models they have reviewed by a number of criteria, including Freeview HD. This link shows Samsung, LG, Sony and Toshiba models, along with the date reviewed and UK prices. The Currys UK site allows you to use similar filters.

    I can't vouch for the accuracy of either site of course but they may be a good starting point. Everything could subsequently be checked for Saorview approval.

    Only the ones I have originally listed have certification for both.


  • #30
    JonathonS
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 702 ✭✭✭JonathonS


    The Cush wrote: »
    This one doesn't nor this one nor this one etc. etc.

    Not all TV models on the Sony Ireland site have a T2 tuner.

    Oops, I nearly got that right, should have said all TVs on the Sony UK site have T2 tuner. :o


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  • #31
    JonathonS
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 702 ✭✭✭JonathonS


    STB wrote: »
    Only the ones I have originally listed have certification for both.

    Sony have been advertising the HX803 models, which are Saorview approved and have T2 tuner and Digital tick. As are the EX553, EX653, HX753 and HX923 ranges, and the EX723 models as you point out, although the latter are not listed on the Sony Irl site.

    EX524 and NX723 models are no longer listed on Sony UK or Sony Ireland sites.


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