5yr old girl missing in Wales

namloc1980 · 03-10-2012 07:04PM

youtube! wrote: »

No I am not trolling,very serious. The beauty of waterboarding is that it is 100% effective, it works. If the guy is guilty he will confess but if he really is innocent they will know immediately and stop the treatment,there is no hiding from the truth here, either he knows or he does not. he will not be able to withstand and keep any secrets to himself. the americans never had to over do this treatment because they knew straight away if the person had something to hide, how do you think they have been so effective in catching so many terrorists?

You know nothing about waterboarding do you? And you know even less about how the Americans used it and how they concluded that it was not effective at all.

You're one scary individual, I hope you're not in any position of authority.

emo72 · 03-10-2012 07:05PM

dave1982 wrote: »

This is where the world is ****ed, We have this asshole in a police station saying nothing and there's a 5 year old girl in the wilderness. People are complaining about forcing the truth from him.I think the Police should use whatever means necessary to to locate the girl.If they are holding a innocent man (which I doubt as he has been in custody so long) that can be proven quickly and they can move onto next person.

I say water board him and get this little girl home where she belongs.

i know its not right. its too extreme a situation, but, if he stays quiet and lets her freeze to death out in the wild. and in a few months you see a police videotape of his interrogation and all he is saying is "No comment", "No comment", "No comment". i know i would be gutted. the law provides him with a modicum of protection, but not victims.

deelite · 03-10-2012 07:07PM

During the conference at 5.30 one of the journalists asked about the alleged relationship between Coral Jones and Mark Bridger has there been any further updates on this - the police officer replied that they were investigating all of Mr. Bridger's relationships.

AtomicHorror · 03-10-2012 07:08PM

youtube! wrote: »

some of you people make me sick, all taking the moral high ground while a 5 yr old little girl is missing and the bastrd who done it wont talk

Once you take the step from "never torture" to "only torture when it's really important", where does it end? How high do the stakes need to be, exactly? 10% risk of the innocent's death if we don't torture him? 5%? How sure of the torture victims guilt do we need to be, exactly? 99%? 95%? How many minutes of drowning before we're 95% confident the torture victim knows nothing? 10 minutes? But if there's a 50% risk a child is going to die well then why not make it 15? Or 20? What are the relative values of the child's life versus the victim's suffering? Does it change if we just don't like him?

Please tell me, where will we draw all these lines? And given that you're advocating switching to a policy of torture on a whim- in the moment- who says we won't move those lines and boundaries again then next time we get upset?

I make you sick? You're the one proposing we quantify lives, and put human suffering on a weighing scales to find the balance.

Thrill · 03-10-2012 07:09PM

youtube! wrote: »

WTF???? , its simple they would know in a few short minutes if this guy knew something. i dont know what you are rabbiting on about,too many PC folk on here who care more about the rights of the accused than the rights of an innocent little girl!! ye make me sick!

So there is a limit to how far you would go?

Then how can you complain when society has it's limits also?

dave1982 · 03-10-2012 07:12PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Erm, no, actually.

But good to see where your priorities lie, for torture, against name calling. Got it.

You're here to defend a paedophile child kidnapper, I know where you priorities lie.
The little girl he took God forbid whats after happening her out there alone in woods.

Don't worry he is getting tea and biscuits and a extra pillow in his cell right now.

MagicMarker · 03-10-2012 07:14PM

dave1982 wrote: »

You're here to defend a paedophile child kidnapper, I know where you priorities lie.
The little girl he took God forbid whats after happening her out there alone in woods.

Don't worry he is getting tea and biscuits and a extra pillow in his cell right now.

You're hilarious, and if only guilty people were ever arrested then you might even have a point. But innocent people get arrested too, and that's why you're talking complete fucking bollocks.

Ellis Dee · 03-10-2012 07:15PM

youtube! wrote: »

WTF???? , its simple they would know in a few short minutes if this guy knew something. i dont know what you are rabbiting on about,too many PC folk on here who care more about the rights of the accused than the rights of an innocent little girl!! ye make me sick!

Everyone has rights, including the accused (or, as in the Wales case, the suspect) and there is no dichotomy between those rights and the rights of a crime victim. ALL rights must be respected and the law exists to punish those who gravely violate the rights of others.:rolleyes:

Your suggestion that the police resort to torturing suspects, and indeed their young children, is beyond bizzare. Torture rarely achieves the desired result, and probably never when the victims are five or six years old. And is that the kind of police you want to enforce the law in our society?

I'm hoping against hope that little April is found alive, but have to admit to a deep sense of foreboding that she won't be.

The Big Red Button · 03-10-2012 07:15PM

dave1982 wrote: »

This is where the world is ****ed, We have this asshole in a police station saying nothing and there's a 5 year old girl in the wilderness. People are complaining about forcing the truth from him.I think the Police should use whatever means necessary to to locate the girl.If they are holding a innocent man (which I doubt as he has been in custody so long) that can be proven quickly and they can move onto next person.

I say water board him and get this little girl home where she belongs.

Right, except, if he is innocent, you're torturing him for nothing. How can that possibly be justified?!

I know that it's unlikely that he's innocent, but it's still possible.

It's been mentioned that he knows the girls parents - maybe he had a disagreement with them recently. It's been mentioned that he, apparently, had the girl in his car a couple of days ago - sounds dodgy, but maybe it was perfectly innocent, that she was there along with his daughter.

The girl goes missing, he hears the description of the vehicle, realises that it matches his own vehicle, and realises that her DNA will be in there. And, while innocent, he was alone that evening and has no alibi. He thinks, fuuuuuck, and, to save himself, very stupidly decides to make up some alibi.

He gets picked up by the police - who suspect him anyways, based on the description of the vehicle. His alibi is disproven - which obviously makes him seem extremely dodgy, that he's lied about where he was and what he was doing that evening.

Obviously this is all speculation - like most other posts on this thread. I don't know. Just, it somehow doesn't add up for me.

As I've mentioned already, I really don't think that much weight should be put on the witness statement of a small child, who was quizzed lots by adults before the police experts got there.

And, sure, even if the kid did get in on the right hand side of the car, that does not necessarily mean it was a LHD car.

I'm sure the police are exploring every possible avenue. And sure, who knows, maybe they're purposely focussing loads on this guy in the hope that the "real" culprit will relax and mess up, somehow.

Just read that the poor little thing has cerebral palsy, amongst other conditions, and needs daily medication. Hadn't known that.

I'm still hoping that she's alive out there somewhere.

kfk · 03-10-2012 07:17PM

What would posters on here think about drugging him to obtain information on the whereabouts of the child? Personally I think it would excellent if it worked!

namloc1980 · 03-10-2012 07:18PM

dave1982 wrote: »

You're here to defend a paedophile child kidnapper, I know where you priorities lie..

Ah would you give over. Your desire to torture people is quite incredible!

youtube! · 03-10-2012 07:21PM

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Everyone has rights, including the accused (or, as in the Wales case, the suspect) and there is no dichotomy between those rights and the rights of a crime victim. ALL rights must be respected and the law exists to punish those who gravely violate the rights of others.:rolleyes:

Your suggestion that the police resort to torturing suspects, and indeed their young children, is beyond bizzare.[/B] Torture rarely achieves the desired result, and probably never when the victims are five or six years old. And is that the kind of police you want to enforce the law in our society?

I'm hoping against hope that little April is found alive, but have to admit to a deep sense of foreboding that she won't be

What you on about?? show me where i suggested this? jesus!!

namloc1980 · 03-10-2012 07:21PM

kfk wrote: »

What would posters on here think about drugging him to obtain information on the whereabouts of the child? Personally I think it would excellent if it worked!

That would probably amount to inhumane treatment and also any confession obtained under the influence of drugs would never stand up in a court of law.

iguana · 03-10-2012 07:23PM

dave1982 wrote: »

You're here to defend a paedophile child kidnapper, I know where you priorities lie.

Who is a paedophile kidnapper? Bridger hasn't even been charged never mind convicted. We also don't know what whoever has taken April has done to her, not all kidnappers are paedophiles. While it's certainly very likely that the police have a very good reason for arresting this man and keeping him in custody, it's not without precedent that they have the wrong guy. An innocent person who is arrested and has that arrest made public is every bit as much a victim as if this man is innocent, his life as he knows it is ruined due to someone else's actions.

_feedback_ · 03-10-2012 07:26PM

What sort of a fúcked up person would willingly work in a job where they are paid to torture people to tell them the stuff they want to hear? Not the kind of people I would like to see in a police force anyway..

Thrill · 03-10-2012 07:27PM

kfk wrote: »

What would posters on here think about drugging him to obtain information on the whereabouts of the child? Personally I think it would excellent if it worked!

I believe lie detector tests have become far more accurate today.

The use of any method that is not lawful could see him go scott free in any court case if he actually did do it.

Benny_Cake · 03-10-2012 07:28PM

dave1982 wrote: »

MagicMarker wrote: »

Erm, no, actually.

But good to see where your priorities lie, for torture, against name calling. Got it.

You're here to defend a paedophile child kidnapper, I know where you priorities lie.
The little girl he took God forbid whats after happening her out there alone in woods.

Don't worry he is getting tea and biscuits and a extra pillow in his cell right now.

I hope you've been in contact with the police investigating this, given you are 100% certain that he is guilty (and a paedophile to boot). If you are aware of some evidence then you should present it.

This is what over 10 years of the war on terror has brought us to. What was unthinkable, such as pouring water down someone's throat to make it feel like they are drowning, suddenly becomes part of the discourse, and people who no doubt think of themselves as civilised excuse barbaric behaviour in the name of justice.

df1985 · 03-10-2012 07:28PM

whats happened to the world...

when I was a kid you could be out playing all day, and all night during the summer till it was dark, no problems, no worries for parents as long as ye didnt go "too far"...

Now people ask questions like "why was she let out without constant supervision?".....kids need to be kids- climb trees, wander around etc etc - sad times that parents these days habe to worry the way they do.

Giselle · 03-10-2012 07:28PM

elviscostello wrote: »

What sort of a fúcked up person would willingly work in a job where they are paid to torture people to tell them the stuff they want to hear? Not the kind of people I would like to see in a police force anyway..

The only thing more frightening than a person who advocates torture, is a torturer who believes they're absolutely right.

AtomicHorror · 03-10-2012 07:31PM

df1985 wrote: »

whats happened to the world...

when I was a kid you could be out playing all day, and all night during the summer till it was dark, no problems, no worries for parents as long as ye didnt go "too far"...

Now people ask questions like "why was she let out without constant supervision?".....kids need to be kids- climb trees, wander around etc etc - sad times that parents these days habe to worry the way they do.

They always did have to- we're just hyperaware of it now. These days, we're all so connected that a child can go missing on the other side of the world and we'll hear about it and react to it almost as if it happened in the next town. Not sure of the rate of these sorts of crimes has actually gone up though!

Ellis Dee · 03-10-2012 07:34PM

df1985 wrote: »

whats happened to the world...

when I was a kid you could be out playing all day, and all night during the summer till it was dark, no problems, no worries for parents as long as ye didnt go "too far"...

Now people ask questions like "why was she let out without constant supervision?".....kids need to be kids- climb trees, wander around etc etc - sad times that parents these days habe to worry the way they do.

You make a very good point. My childhood was the same, and I walked first and later cycled the best part of three miles to school, and then back. Children could explore the countryside, woods and fields, see nature and wildlife, fish ...

Now the sprogs are taken the 400 metres to school in their mammy's SUV, everything is programmed. They don't get to be kids and develop their own way.

All that is part of the price we pay because there are a few really savage criminals among us.

And it's hard to see what to do about it.

AtomicHorror · 03-10-2012 07:35PM

dave1982 wrote: »

You're here to defend a paedophile child kidnapper, I know where you priorities lie.

If you're against torture, you're for child sex offenders.

Here is an unrelated Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

Lord Trollington · 03-10-2012 07:35PM

I believe there is much much more to this story than meets the eye.

They have arrested a man who is in custody now for 2 days. Without charging him released his name and a picture.

He doesn't fit the bill of a kidnapper/pedophile/psycho. Has a number of kids of his own.

Rumours of a relationship with the child's mother.

"Kidnaps" a child in full view of other children in a small rural village.

There is just something not adding up in all of this for me. I can't get my head around it.

Da Shins Kelly · 03-10-2012 07:39PM

Do the people on here advocating torture as a method of interrogation actually realise how utterly retarded they sound?

_feedback_ · 03-10-2012 07:40PM

Lord Trollington wrote: »

I believe there is much much more to this story than meets the eye.

They have arrested a man who is in custody now for 2 days. Without charging him released his name and a picture.

He doesn't fit the bill of a kidnapper/pedophile/psycho. Has a number of kids of his own.

Rumours of a relationship with the child's mother.

"Kidnaps" a child in full view of other children in a small rural village.

There is just something not adding up in all of this for me. I can't get my head around it.

Thinking the exact same thing myself...

My initial view was that news was going to come about after his arrest.

That unconfirmed relationship with the mother is knocking it off for me...

Who reported the abduction? Was it the mother or father?

AtomicHorror · 03-10-2012 07:41PM

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Do the people on here advocating torture as a method of interrogation actually realise how utterly retarded they sound?

That sort of realization tends to strike people before they speak or not at all.

iguana · 03-10-2012 07:43PM

Have we not heard from April's father? Was he not the man with the moustache sitting next to Coral Jones during her press conference? The police and news described them as April's parents, not April's mother and a male relative. Also April's half sister was in the news last night and afaik they share a father. And while obviously I have no real clue, I thought there was a resemblance between the two girls which would suggest they are blood relatives.

Tbh, I think the current insinuations that Coral Jones sexual past has played a part in her daughter's disappearance is very unfair to her. She also looks like an utterly devastated woman who is terrified for her daughter not someone who would keep any secrets that could prolong her daughter's abduction.

_feedback_ · 03-10-2012 07:49PM

iguana wrote: »

Tbh, I think the current insinuations that Coral Jones sexual past has played a part in her daughter's disappearance is very unfair to her. She also looks like an utterly devastated woman who is terrified for her daughter not someone who would keep any secrets that could prolong her daughter's abduction.

It depends really. If it turned out to be a recent or present relationship with yer man it could make the whole thing very different.

Malena72 · 03-10-2012 07:49PM

I read yesterday that April's parents got married recently and also I saw a photo of April on her Dad's shoulders (in Dailymail, UK) The man beside April's Mum is the Mum's step-dad

iguana · 03-10-2012 07:54PM

Malena72 wrote: »

I read yesterday that April's parents got married recently and also I saw a photo of April on her Dad's shoulders (in Dailymail, UK) The man beside April's Mum is the Mum's step-dad

Yeah I just looked that up. It's yesterday's statement that came from both parents, Paul and Coral. They were due to have a press conference then but didn't as Bridger was arrested.

5yr old girl missing in Wales

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