RTE Firefighters overkill

19hz · 28-09-2012 02:20AM

apc wrote: »

But earlier you made a comparison between DFB who are full time fire service and the retained Fire service which are part time inferring the opposite.

The issue is that the Fire Service cut roofs off cars to make is safer for both casualty and crews.
You as a supermedic would obviously prefer to handle things yourself, your call ,your the supermedic.

Yes, introducing power tools, generators, petrol, more rescuers, glass in the air and pieces, sharps edges(eg cut door pillars) is certainly safer for everyone.. not.

Whatever happened to ked.. lift up...board under the ass...turn..down onto the board and out the gap..two mins...

28-09-2012 06:35AM

I really think there is no right & wrong answer here. The decision will be made on the ground by the medic in charge.

As for the waste killers vs. the overkillers, that will never be resolved. Some hate waste with a passion. Others hate unpreparedness with a similar passion.

I know in some places, the main benefit of having a fire crew automatically tasked to an RTC has nothing to do with the equipment in the back. It's having 6 trained personnel available to lift a patient out of a car. Average person is what, 80kgs? 80/6 (or 8, if the ambo's crew lift too) is much better than 80/2.

Maybe the difference is in urban areas, a fire crew is assumed to be near, so no "need" to task them until asked by medic. However in rural areas, when a medic on scene, needing help, looks for the crew they're tens of minute's drive away. Ergo, they travel to the scene to be available if needed.

Personally I'm a preparedness over anti-waste man. Better to be looking at something than looking for it.

Celticfire · 28-09-2012 09:20AM

19hz wrote: »

Whatever happened to ked.. lift up...board under the ass...turn..down onto the board and out the gap..two mins...

Explain to me how you will perform the "turn, down onto board and out the gap " with four adults in the car.

apc · 28-09-2012 10:07AM

Celticfire wrote: »

Explain to me how you will perform the "turn, down onto board and out the gap " with four adults in the car.

And with just 2 crew?

apc · 28-09-2012 10:15AM

19hz
Just saw this quote from you in another thread (Can I work in the UK with an Irish EMT license?) in Other Emergency Services Recruitment

"If you join Statutory then you might aswel stay for a while and try do their internal para recruitment and get para over in UK..much higher qualification than Ireland."

So would that mean that the Paramedic in the video was better qualified to make an assessment than an Irish Paramedic at the scene of that RTC?
Just wondering!!

19hz · 29-09-2012 03:03AM

apc wrote: »

19hz
Just saw this quote from you in another thread (Can I work in the UK with an Irish EMT license?) in Other Emergency Services Recruitment

"If you join Statutory then you might aswel stay for a while and try do their internal para recruitment and get para over in UK..much higher qualification than Ireland."

So would that mean that the Paramedic in the video was better qualified to make an assessment than an Irish Paramedic at the scene of that RTC?
Just wondering!!

Huh?... I don't get your question?..paramedic in the video was an Irish para on scene??? I'm lost...

Whats UK para got to do with it anyway?

19hz · 29-09-2012 03:05AM

Celticfire wrote: »

Explain to me how you will perform the "turn, down onto board and out the gap " with four adults in the car.

What would ya do if you had to rapid extract one or two cause they were decompensating for example... and you didn't have 4 million other people with ya cause you were in the back roads of Cavan?... what would ya do batman?... would ya say... "oh sorry bud, die away there but we gota wait for fireman sam and his tin can opener..."

19hz · 29-09-2012 03:06AM

apc wrote: »

And with just 2 crew?

No one said ya have to do it with just two...4 is the magic number I suppose... no harm in calling a fire truck if you need some hands for that and there isnt a second crew ect.... all I'm saying is I agree...roof off was a bit of overkill...

19hz · 29-09-2012 03:09AM

It appears I'm taking the heat off supermedic now...

here supermedic????....get back here!!!!

apc · 29-09-2012 12:35PM

Shane_ef wrote: »

Watch from 49 min on this video, gives a good explanation of why to chop off a roof, it only last about a min or so.

Link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_btwD1O5Bo&feature=watch_response

19hz this is the video I am on about.

This thread was started by an OP who is into cars and was hopped on by a medic. The point I am making is that within the fulltime Fire Service roof off is only done in consultation with the medics and with due consideration for casualty and crew. It is not done because the Fire Service can do it:D

xperi · 29-09-2012 05:10PM

the same programme showed a chip pan fire & the firefighters used a high preasure hose to put it out, the hose done more damage than the fire did, they destroyed the kitchen, then some gobshyte pointing up to a melted plastic light fitting , of course it was gonna be melted it was right over the chip pan u fool. complete overkill

civdef · 29-09-2012 07:34PM

Have heard it all now.

19hz · 29-09-2012 07:49PM

apc wrote: »

19hz this is the video I am on about.

This thread was started by an OP who is into cars and was hopped on by a medic. The point I am making is that within the fulltime Fire Service roof off is only done in consultation with the medics and with due consideration for casualty and crew. It is not done because the Fire Service can do it:D

I completely agree with you. I don't think I said anything like that?...never said it was the brigade making the call.
I am saying, whoever made the call...was overkill..

Erah tis only my opinion. No one is wrong and I'm not here to put anyone else down..just bringing my view to the table.

Forgive my ignorance, whats an OP?

19hz · 29-09-2012 07:51PM

xperi wrote: »

the same programme showed a chip pan fire & the firefighters used a high preasure hose to put it out, the hose done more damage than the fire did, they destroyed the kitchen, then some gobshyte pointing up to a melted plastic light fitting , of course it was gonna be melted it was right over the chip pan u fool. complete overkill

Tis a bit in fairness, the whole show..every time I heard "so we've dispatched 5 appliances and 7 ambulances to the scene, along with 4 helicopters on standby"(Im being sarcastic) I throw the eyes up...I hope its just for the cameras and that it isn't the usual carry on to have 100s of people at every call...

apc · 29-09-2012 08:49PM

19hz wrote: »

I completely agree with you. I don't think I said anything like that?...never said it was the brigade making the call.
I am saying, whoever made the call...was overkill..

Erah tis only my opinion. No one is wrong and I'm not here to put anyone else down..just bringing my view to the table.

Forgive my ignorance, whats an OP?

OP = Original Poster;)

apc · 29-09-2012 08:53PM

xperi wrote: »

the same programme showed a chip pan fire & the firefighters used a high preasure hose to put it out, the hose done more damage than the fire did, they destroyed the kitchen, then some gobshyte pointing up to a melted plastic light fitting , of course it was gonna be melted it was right over the chip pan u fool. complete overkill

Is this just an unqualified opinion?

Again it is standard procedure for at least the first team to always bring a hose either high or low pressure when entering a fire.

seven_eleven · 29-09-2012 09:16PM

Thread needs to be locked, this is getting ridiculous and just frustrating to see tbh.

Medic475 · 29-09-2012 09:40PM

seven_eleven wrote: »

Thread needs to be locked, this is getting ridiculous and just frustrating to see tbh.

Best comment I've seen since this "Car Accident" discussion started and I agree 100%!!

19hz · 30-09-2012 02:31AM

apc wrote: »

Is this just an unqualified opinion?

Again it is standard procedure for at least the first team to always bring a hose either high or low pressure when entering a fire.

I believe hes saying spraying water straight at it exacerbates it.
Which it does...

Supposed to tackle it by pulsing your high pressure hose.. release the droplets of water into the room via a fog.. the water takes the heat from the fire to use to evaporate the droplets. By doing that you remove one side of the fire triangle.. heat, oxygen and fuel.
3min50secs on...

Paulzx · 30-09-2012 12:03PM

xperi wrote: »

the same programme showed a chip pan fire & the firefighters used a high preasure hose to put it out, the hose done more damage than the fire did, they destroyed the kitchen, then some gobshyte pointing up to a melted plastic light fitting , of course it was gonna be melted it was right over the chip pan u fool. complete overkill

....................and your experience of firefighting is? By the way youtube doesn't count.

Anyone who has actually experienced a kitchen fire can testify to the damage caused by a small localised fire in a confined space.

The kitchen will be badly smoke damaged along with the actual fire and heat damage. The water used in this case was irrelevant. The damage was already done.

Maybe you're the fool not the District Officer with 25 years experience that you have slagged off

MagicSean · 30-09-2012 12:10PM

19hz wrote: »

Tis a bit in fairness, the whole show..every time I heard "so we've dispatched 5 appliances and 7 ambulances to the scene, along with 4 helicopters on standby"(Im being sarcastic) I throw the eyes up...I hope its just for the cameras and that it isn't the usual carry on to have 100s of people at every call...

Unfortunately the people who call the firebrigade rarely give an accurate description of the situation. Same goes for calling the Gardaí and Ambulance. People either massively exagerate or understate a problem.

19hz · 30-09-2012 10:11PM

MagicSean wrote: »

Unfortunately the people who call the firebrigade rarely give an accurate description of the situation. Same goes for calling the Gardaí and Ambulance. People either massively exagerate or understate a problem.

I agree. I work in a busy service and the most I've been on scene with was 3 ambs and 2 fire trucks, that was for 3 car rta 1 trapped and 6 other pts.

Even though I work for a busy service we don't seem to have the availability the DFB have by the looks of it.. I had to treat and transport 4 patients from one scene one day...obviously asked for more resources but none available.. I'm baffeled by the resources they have, which is good, but feel they commit a bit too much? Better to have them and not need them I suppose but what if another shout comes in?..catch 22...

Celticfire · 01-10-2012 11:04AM

19hz wrote: »

What would ya do if you had to rapid extract one or two cause they were decompensating for example... and you didn't have 4 million other people with ya cause you were in the back roads of Cavan?... what would ya do batman?... would ya say... "oh sorry bud, die away there but we gota wait for fireman sam and his tin can opener..."

You going to answer the simple question I asked?

Explain to me how you will perform the "turn, down onto board and out the gap " with four adults in the car.

19hz · 01-10-2012 11:44AM

Celticfire wrote: »

19hz wrote: »

What would ya do if you had to rapid extract one or two cause they were decompensating for example... and you didn't have 4 million other people with ya cause you were in the back roads of Cavan?... what would ya do batman?... would ya say... "oh sorry bud, die away there but we gota wait for fireman sam and his tin can opener..."

You going to answer the simple question I asked?

Explain to me how you will perform the "turn, down onto board and out the gap " with four adults in the car.

Slap a ked on..2guys(you and a garda) either side or one(you) stralding over with 1 holding c-spine(can be johnny passerby). Lift up an inch...board pushed under by anyone. Garda, partner, passerby. Knees up a bit...swing round..head down onto board...slide pt up board and out the gap...il show ya some time

Celticfire · 01-10-2012 12:02PM

19hz wrote: »

Slap a ked on..2guys(you and a garda) either side or one(you) stralding over with 1 holding c-spine(can be johnny passerby). Lift up an inch...board pushed under by anyone. Garda, partner, passerby. Knees up a bit...swing round..head down onto board...slide pt up board and out the gap...il show ya some time

with four poss spinal casualties in the car...... I'd love you to show me sometime:rolleyes:

MagicSean · 01-10-2012 12:05PM

19hz wrote: »

I agree. I work in a busy service and the most I've been on scene with was 3 ambs and 2 fire trucks, that was for 3 car rta 1 trapped and 6 other pts.

Even though I work for a busy service we don't seem to have the availability the DFB have by the looks of it.. I had to treat and transport 4 patients from one scene one day...obviously asked for more resources but none available.. I'm baffeled by the resources they have, which is good, but feel they commit a bit too much? Better to have them and not need them I suppose but what if another shout comes in?..catch 22...

If they are not needed they can leave the scene. Easy enough.

19hz wrote: »

Slap a ked on..2guys(you and a garda) either side or one(you) stralding over with 1 holding c-spine(can be johnny passerby). Lift up an inch...board pushed under by anyone. Garda, partner, passerby. Knees up a bit...swing round..head down onto board...slide pt up board and out the gap...il show ya some time

You seem to be trying to make this into a competition. While it is great to be able to cope with low resources and use passers by to help it is nowhere near a substitute for having the proper resources you should have available to you. Instead of asking why DFB have so many extra resources you should be demanding you are given more so you can do your job without having to rely on a guy walking down the street to help you. All you are doing is giving the impression you don't want more resources.

Paulzx · 01-10-2012 12:11PM

19hz wrote: »

Slap a ked on..2guys(you and a garda) either side or one(you) stralding over with 1 holding c-spine(can be johnny passerby). Lift up an inch...board pushed under by anyone. Garda, partner, passerby. Knees up a bit...swing round..head down onto board...slide pt up board and out the gap...il show ya some time

You're my hero:rolleyes:

I'm surprised you needed johnny passerby and the Garda

19hz · 01-10-2012 08:17PM

Jesus lads lighten up, just a chat about personal experience and opinions... stop trying to take me apart and tell me what ye've done in the past maybe?..

Celticfire wrote: »

with four poss spinal casualties in the car...... I'd love you to show me sometime

I'll go away and do up a few diagrams!!!

Haha photos are to be avoided!!!!

MagicSean wrote: »

If they are not needed they can leave the scene. Easy enough.

You seem to be trying to make this into a competition. While it is great to be able to cope with low resources and use passers by to help it is nowhere near a substitute for having the proper resources you should have available to you. Instead of asking why DFB have so many extra resources you should be demanding you are given more so you can do your job without having to rely on a guy walking down the street to help you. All you are doing is giving the impression you don't want more resources.

Ahhhhhh shhhhtop lad, no competition, as I say just a chat about experiences in the past and opinions....thats what forums are all about!!!
Peace and love xxx

Haha asking for more resources?... that would mean they'd have to skim the management bonuses!!!

Paulzx wrote: »

You're my hero:rolleyes:

I'm surprised you needed johnny passerby and the Garda

Ahh don't be like that, I'm just trying to engage in convo!!!

Be nice to me I'm only small!!!

wicklaman83 · 01-10-2012 10:10PM

19hz wrote: »

Jesus lads lighten up, just a chat about personal experience and opinions... stop trying to take me apart and tell me what ye've done in the past maybe?..

Celticfire wrote: »

with four poss spinal casualties in the car...... I'd love you to show me sometime

I'll go away and do up a few diagrams!!!
Haha photos are to be avoided!!!!

MagicSean wrote: »

If they are not needed they can leave the scene. Easy enough.

You seem to be trying to make this into a competition. While it is great to be able to cope with low resources and use passers by to help it is nowhere near a substitute for having the proper resources you should have available to you. Instead of asking why DFB have so many extra resources you should be demanding you are given more so you can do your job without having to rely on a guy walking down the street to help you. All you are doing is giving the impression you don't want more resources.

Ahhhhhh shhhhtop lad, no competition, as I say just a chat about experiences in the past and opinions....thats what forums are all about!!!
Peace and love xxx

Haha asking for more resources?... that would mean they'd have to skim the management bonuses!!!

Paulzx wrote: »

You're my hero:rolleyes:

I'm surprised you needed johnny passerby and the Garda

Ahh don't be like that, I'm just trying to engage in convo!!!

Be nice to me I'm only small!!!

Genuine fair play to you

casper69 · 02-10-2012 10:56PM

Lads, it's worth remembering that this show is produced by the same people who did the show about the Zoo, now take what you want from this but two facts I know to be true:

1) The Elephant didn't have a tooth ache, it was all done for the cameras.( Source one of the Hippos who was in the next door compound).

2) The Snow Leopard was actually just a normal Leopard they bleached!

Also the guys from the parks department reckon they could clean out the Petting Zoo with only two staff and the help of a passing child and party clown!

RTE Firefighters overkill

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