Coolant

tankbarry · 29-09-2012 09:48PM #1

Is all coolant the same or can I put coolant for a tractor in a car ?

Stheno · 29-09-2012 09:52PM

tankbarry wrote: »

Is all coolant the same or can I put coolant for a tractor in a car ?

I *think* it's a bit like oil and you can get specific coolant for specific cars/engines.

Have you looked up what coolant is advised for your car and compared it to the tractor coolant?

What car is it?

dgt · 29-09-2012 09:52PM

No they're all different.

What car?

CiniO · 29-09-2012 11:48PM

dgt wrote: »

No they're all different.

What car?

I wouldn't say they are all different.
There's only few kinds...

Generally you shouldn't be mixing the colours...

Stheno · 30-09-2012 12:05AM

CiniO wrote: »

I wouldn't say they are all different.
There's only few kinds...

Generally you shouldn't be mixing the colours...

But there are lots of different colours, and the different types of coolant cope with cold temperatures better so the op is really best off checking what is most suitable for his car? My mechanic replaced mine today with one that he'd check will not crystallise in cold weather, as some in the last big snow did so, and it affected performance.

Yawns · 30-09-2012 12:15AM

Hardly the most expensive thing to replace on a car tbh. Pop into auto factors or even the local Halfords if you must. 5l wouldn't cost more than €30 in Halfords and should be cheaper in an auto factors. Tell them you want it for your make & model and they'll select the right stuff for you if you're unsure.

The more worrying part is can you do it yourself and know to keep a check on it to make sure there's no airlocks etc

CiniO · 30-09-2012 12:27AM

Stheno wrote: »

But there are lots of different colours, and the different types of coolant cope with cold temperatures better so the op is really best off checking what is most suitable for his car?

Most coolants should not freeze up to about -40 degrees when new, when mixed 1:1 (concentrate and deioninsed water).

My mechanic replaced mine today with one that he'd check will not crystallise in cold weather, as some in the last big snow did so, and it affected performance.

Affected performance?
If coolant freezes, it can cause damage to radiator and engine. If it doesn't freeze, there can't be any problems. I can't see how it could affect performance.

Stheno · 30-09-2012 12:30AM

CiniO wrote: »

Affected performance?
If coolant freezes, it can cause damage to radiator and engine. If it doesn't freeze, there can't be any problems. I can't see how it could affect performance.

Yup that was it, it crystallised and caused problems for radiators and engines, so his approach now is to use the coolant that has a lower freezing temperature than the ones with the lower one. For me anything that causes problems affects the performance of a car no?

Its due to the concentration of one of the ingredients.

CiniO · 30-09-2012 12:37AM

Stheno wrote: »

Yup that was it, it crystallised and caused problems for radiators and engines, so his approach now is to use the coolant that has a lower freezing temperature than the ones with the lower one. For me anything that causes problems affects the performance of a car no?

Its due to the concentration of one of the ingredients.

Allright. If damage to the car caused by frozen coolant is affecting performance in your eyes, that's fine.

As I said - most coolant have nearly the same freezing point , which would be around -37 to -42 degrees.
You can buy them ready-to-go, which you can put straight in your system. Or you can buy concentrate, which you can mix with deionised water. If you mix it 1:1 you usually get the same as ready-to-go option.

It's definitely not like a coolant brand A freezes at -20, while coolant brand B freezes at -40.

Ronnie Beck · 30-09-2012 12:47AM

The coolant in your car should be the right type in the right concentration for our climate. Do not mix coolants.

The incorrect coolant can damage seals in your engine.

CiniO · 30-09-2012 12:52AM

Ronnie Beck wrote: »

The coolant in your car should be the right type in the right concentration for our climate. Do not mix coolants.

What is the right concentration for our climate though?

Stheno · 30-09-2012 12:59AM

CiniO wrote: »

What is the right concentration for our climate though?

You can google it easily enough, and get listings for when coolant is likely to freeze dependant on the concentration levels?i.e how much water versus coolant is there?

Some coolants will freeze as low at 00 Celsius

For here, having lived in the midlands and put up with -12 in bad winters, I'd want coolant that wouldn't freeze before -20

Ronnie Beck · 30-09-2012 01:03AM

CiniO wrote: »

What is the right concentration for our climate though?

depends on the coolant.

VW G12 at 60 % coolant is good to - 35 and about - 25 at 50 % iirc.

Too high a concentration decreases its cooling ability.

Toyotafanboi · 30-09-2012 01:05AM

CiniO wrote: »

What is the right concentration for our climate though?

the correct concentration would depend on the exact coolant product i would imagine, there is no set rule for all.

i also think its quite naieve of you to think that there are so few kinds of coolant. its very much like oil at this stage where you can have several different variations of castrol magnetec 5w30 etc etc.

CiniO wrote:

If coolant freezes, it can cause damage to radiator and engine. If it doesn't freeze, there can't be any problems. I can't see how it could affect performance.

also your overlooking one of, if not the most major factor of coolant. a property it obviously requires is to resist freezing, but this is not its purpose, which you perceive it to be.

coolants main requirement (i asume, based on my limited mechanical knowledge) is its ability to hold/ carry heat, to the radiator then have an ability to very quickly go cold and then very quickly acumulate heat again. to be a good conductor i think is the phrase. To keep the engine running at a stable intended temperature, not to prevent it freezing on a chilly night.

Would i use coolant intended for a big 3 or 4 liter, couple of hundred horsepower agricultural impliment in my day to day car? probably not. unless its a very old car with a very primative engine. even then, why risk it.

dieselbug · 30-09-2012 01:07AM

Its not just about freezing in winter. Coolant is about anti corrosion of the alloys in your engine, gaskets,and all components.
Different manufacturers recomend different specifications.Any supplyier will tell you the correct one recomended for your car.

mickdw · 30-09-2012 01:14AM

dieselbug wrote: »

Its not just about freezing in winter. Coolant is about anti corrosion of the alloys in your engine, gaskets,and all components.
Different manufacturers recomend different specifications.Any supplyier will tell you the correct one recomended for your car.

Its not just about freezing and anti corrosion either. It has a higher boiling point than plain water.

CiniO · 30-09-2012 01:26AM

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

the correct concentration would depend on the exact coolant product i would imagine, there is no set rule for all.

I didn't encounter a concentrated coolant which would recomment other than 1:1 mixture for average use.

i also think its quite naieve of you to think that there are so few kinds of coolant. its very much like oil at this stage where you can have several different variations of castrol magnetec 5w30 etc etc.

So what are those kinds then? If you know of them, give any link to a list or something.
AFAIK there's only a few main kinds. Not even similar to huge choice of motor oils we've got.

also your overlooking one of, if not the most major factor of coolant. a property it obviously requires is to resist freezing, but this is not its purpose, which you perceive it to be.

coolants main requirement (i asume, based on my limited mechanical knowledge) is its ability to hold/ carry heat, to the radiator then have an ability to very quickly go cold and then very quickly acumulate heat again. to be a good conductor i think is the phrase.

Yep.. For this purpose pure water will be better than any coolant.
The main functions of coolant are those:
1. Prevent system from freezing.
2. Prevent corrosion.

If those 2 were not required, water would be the best coolant (deionised water, as tap water might contain limescale)

Here's few words about coolants:
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/tech-articles/coolant-antifreeze.pdf

Or here:

http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100529050826AAm9T9O

Toyotafanboi · 30-09-2012 01:32AM

Cinio lad your too easy, i knew you'd take the bait, you'd argue with your own shadow!

I'm not really anorak enough to follow through on this (and partly because i dont fully understand) but as technology in cars is progressing the likes of coolant is becoming more and more engine specific. Its much more in depth at this stage than green, red and blue.

concentrated coolant is exactly that. at its maximum concentration, but can be diluted to varying degrees to suit particular circumstance, lets not split hairs over that.

I could be wrong, but highly doubt that distilled water would be a better coolant than any maufactured chemical coolant product in todays modern world if freezing and corrosion weren't factors.

I admit, freezing point and corrosion inhibition are certainly necessary qualities of coolant but its main purpose really is to regulate a running engines temperature.

CiniO · 30-09-2012 01:34AM

mickdw wrote: »

Its not just about freezing and anti corrosion either. It has a higher boiling point than plain water.

Which is not really needed.
Cooling system is a pressure system, and due to that fact, pure water should have boiling point at about 125 degrees Celcius.
Yes - coolant will have higher, and the more concentrater, the higher boiling point will be, but that's not really needed for anything, as in normal operation coolant shouldn't go above 90 - 100 degrees.

Toyotafanboi · 30-09-2012 01:40AM

CiniO wrote: »

Which is not really needed.
Cooling system is a pressure system, and due to that fact, pure water should have boiling point at about 125 degrees Celcius.
Yes - coolant will have higher, and the more concentrater, the higher boiling point will be, but that's not really needed for anything, as in normal operation coolant shouldn't go above 90 - 100 degrees.

You'd better ring all the major car manufacturers and tell them they're wrong. all the millions of euro and thousands of man hours they have invested in sophisticated cooling methods is wasted. water will do. facepalm on their part.

i dont think the boiling point either is the issue. its the coolants ability to maintain a certain temperature, be that 85 degrees or whatever. its coolants ability to be at 100 degrees at the back of the block and after 10 seconds in the radiator be able to be re entering the block at 75 degrees. (numbers and times made up but i reckon thats how it works)

could regular water do the same? possible, but i doubt it.

CiniO · 30-09-2012 01:43AM

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Cinio lad your too easy, i knew you'd take the bait, you'd argue with your own shadow!

I'm not really anorak enough to follow through on this (and partly because i dont fully understand) but as technology in cars is progressing the likes of coolant is becoming more and more engine specific. Its much more in depth at this stage than green, red and blue.

No it isn't.
Please show me those shelves in halfords with tens of differents kinds of coolant, as you can find on oil shelves...

No you won't because there's only few kinds of coolant. Generally for older engines and newer ones...

concentrated coolant is exactly that. at its maximum concentration, but can be diluted to varying degrees to suit particular circumstance, lets not split hairs over that.

I could be wrong, but highly doubt that distilled water would be a better coolant than any maufactured chemical coolant product in todays modern world if freezing and corrosion weren't factors.

Why then in nearly all professional motorsports, they use purt distilled water as coolant?

I admit, freezing point and corrosion inhibition are certainly necessary qualities of coolant but its main purpose really is to regulate a running engines temperature.

Thermostat takes care of regulating engine temperature.
Coolant is just a fluid to do the job. Even though pure water would work great, everyone needs protection from freezing and corrosion, that's why we all use ethylene glicol or propylene glicol as coolants.

Ronnie Beck · 30-09-2012 01:44AM

Regular water has a higher heat capacity than anti freeze. It transfers more heat energy to the rad.

CiniO · 30-09-2012 01:48AM

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

You'd better ring all the major car manufacturers and tell them they're wrong. all the millions of euro and thousands of man hours they have invested in sophisticated cooling methods is wasted. water will do. facepalm on their part.

i dont think the boiling point either is the issue. its the coolants ability to maintain a certain temperature, be that 85 degrees or whatever. its coolants ability to be at 100 degrees at the back of the block and after 10 seconds in the radiator be able to be re entering the block at 75 degrees. (numbers and times made up but i reckon thats how it works)

could regular water do the same? possible, but i doubt it.

You are greatly wrong here.
Pure water will fulfill this task better than coolant.
But manufacturers must use coolant, as otherwise all cars would be wrecked after a frosty weather. Also most engines and radiators would rust into pieces after some time.
Otherwise, there's not really any advantego in using coolant.

Toyotafanboi · 30-09-2012 01:57AM

I'm coming around to the idea somewhat.

but struggling to believe the appropriately named "coolant" has no combined cooling down properties greater than water.

obviously anti-freeze is designed to prevent freezing, as its name suggests, but if coolant did not contain any unique cooling properties, then it too, surely would just be anti-freeze leaving no need for a definition to be created?

CiniO · 30-09-2012 02:06AM

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I'm coming around to the idea somewhat.

but struggling to believe the appropriately named "coolant" has no combined cooling down properties greater than water.

obviously anti-freeze is designed to prevent freezing, as its name suggests, but if coolant did not contain any unique cooling properties, then it too, surely would just be anti-freeze leaving no need for a definition to be created?

I don't think you should separate anti-freeze and coolant.
It's the same thing.

Theoretically you could use name "coolant" for any fluid used in cooling system, even water.
But in practice, by saying coolant you mean antifreeze.

It's actually the strange thing in english language that there is 2 terms (coolant and antifreeze) as in other languages, this product has just one name.

Toyotafanboi · 30-09-2012 02:07AM

CiniO wrote: »

I don't think you should separate anti-freeze and coolant.
It's the same thing.

but its not. and that's where my confusion lies.
i think

im going to bed.

Ronnie Beck · 30-09-2012 02:11AM

Antifreeze + water = coolant

Toyotafanboi · 30-09-2012 02:18AM

Ronnie Beck wrote: »

Antifreeze + water = coolant

still a lot of variations regardless.

tankbarry · 30-09-2012 01:17PM

its a 1.4 i need the coolant for .

dgt · 30-09-2012 01:58PM

CiniO wrote: »

I wouldn't say they are all different.
There's only few kinds...

Generally you shouldn't be mixing the colours...

Blue = 2 year guarantee
Green = 3 year guarantee
Red = 5 year guarantee
Yellow = Renault stuff

Tell me that they are not different

the culture of deference · 30-09-2012 02:10PM

How often should we change the coolant.

Coolant

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