Coolant

tankbarry

Is all coolant the same or can I put coolant for a tractor in a car ?

Stheno

tankbarry wrote: »

Is all coolant the same or can I put coolant for a tractor in a car ?

I *think* it's a bit like oil and you can get specific coolant for specific cars/engines.

Have you looked up what coolant is advised for your car and compared it to the tractor coolant?

What car is it?

dgt

No they're all different.

What car?

CiniO

dgt wrote: »

No they're all different.

What car?

I wouldn't say they are all different.
There's only few kinds...

Generally you shouldn't be mixing the colours...

Stheno

CiniO wrote: »

I wouldn't say they are all different.
There's only few kinds...

Generally you shouldn't be mixing the colours...

But there are lots of different colours, and the different types of coolant cope with cold temperatures better so the op is really best off checking what is most suitable for his car? My mechanic replaced mine today with one that he'd check will not crystallise in cold weather, as some in the last big snow did so, and it affected performance.

Yawns

Hardly the most expensive thing to replace on a car tbh. Pop into auto factors or even the local Halfords if you must. 5l wouldn't cost more than €30 in Halfords and should be cheaper in an auto factors. Tell them you want it for your make & model and they'll select the right stuff for you if you're unsure.

The more worrying part is can you do it yourself and know to keep a check on it to make sure there's no airlocks etc

CiniO

Stheno wrote: »

But there are lots of different colours, and the different types of coolant cope with cold temperatures better so the op is really best off checking what is most suitable for his car?

Most coolants should not freeze up to about -40 degrees when new, when mixed 1:1 (concentrate and deioninsed water).

My mechanic replaced mine today with one that he'd check will not crystallise in cold weather, as some in the last big snow did so, and it affected performance.

Affected performance?
If coolant freezes, it can cause damage to radiator and engine. If it doesn't freeze, there can't be any problems. I can't see how it could affect performance.

Stheno

CiniO wrote: »

Affected performance?
If coolant freezes, it can cause damage to radiator and engine. If it doesn't freeze, there can't be any problems. I can't see how it could affect performance.

Yup that was it, it crystallised and caused problems for radiators and engines, so his approach now is to use the coolant that has a lower freezing temperature than the ones with the lower one. For me anything that causes problems affects the performance of a car no?

Its due to the concentration of one of the ingredients.

CiniO

Stheno wrote: »

Yup that was it, it crystallised and caused problems for radiators and engines, so his approach now is to use the coolant that has a lower freezing temperature than the ones with the lower one. For me anything that causes problems affects the performance of a car no?

Its due to the concentration of one of the ingredients.

Allright. If damage to the car caused by frozen coolant is affecting performance in your eyes, that's fine.

As I said - most coolant have nearly the same freezing point , which would be around -37 to -42 degrees.
You can buy them ready-to-go, which you can put straight in your system. Or you can buy concentrate, which you can mix with deionised water. If you mix it 1:1 you usually get the same as ready-to-go option.


It's definitely not like a coolant brand A freezes at -20, while coolant brand B freezes at -40.

Ronnie Beck

The coolant in your car should be the right type in the right concentration for our climate. Do not mix coolants.

The incorrect coolant can damage seals in your engine.

CiniO

Ronnie Beck wrote: »

The coolant in your car should be the right type in the right concentration for our climate. Do not mix coolants.

What is the right concentration for our climate though?

Stheno

CiniO wrote: »

What is the right concentration for our climate though?

You can google it easily enough, and get listings for when coolant is likely to freeze dependant on the concentration levels?i.e how much water versus coolant is there?

Some coolants will freeze as low at 00 Celsius

For here, having lived in the midlands and put up with -12 in bad winters, I'd want coolant that wouldn't freeze before -20

Ronnie Beck

CiniO wrote: »

What is the right concentration for our climate though?

depends on the coolant.

VW G12 at 60 % coolant is good to - 35 and about - 25 at 50 % iirc.

Too high a concentration decreases its cooling ability.

Toyotafanboi

CiniO wrote: »

What is the right concentration for our climate though?

the correct concentration would depend on the exact coolant product i would imagine, there is no set rule for all.

i also think its quite naieve of you to think that there are so few kinds of coolant. its very much like oil at this stage where you can have several different variations of castrol magnetec 5w30 etc etc.

CiniO wrote:

If coolant freezes, it can cause damage to radiator and engine. If it doesn't freeze, there can't be any problems. I can't see how it could affect performance.

also your overlooking one of, if not the most major factor of coolant. a property it obviously requires is to resist freezing, but this is not its purpose, which you perceive it to be.

coolants main requirement (i asume, based on my limited mechanical knowledge) is its ability to hold/ carry heat, to the radiator then have an ability to very quickly go cold and then very quickly acumulate heat again. to be a good conductor i think is the phrase. To keep the engine running at a stable intended temperature, not to prevent it freezing on a chilly night.

Would i use coolant intended for a big 3 or 4 liter, couple of hundred horsepower agricultural impliment in my day to day car? probably not. unless its a very old car with a very primative engine. even then, why risk it.

dieselbug

Its not just about freezing in winter. Coolant is about anti corrosion of the alloys in your engine, gaskets,and all components.
Different manufacturers recomend different specifications.Any supplyier will tell you the correct one recomended for your car.

mickdw

dieselbug wrote: »

Its not just about freezing in winter. Coolant is about anti corrosion of the alloys in your engine, gaskets,and all components.
Different manufacturers recomend different specifications.Any supplyier will tell you the correct one recomended for your car.

Its not just about freezing and anti corrosion either. It has a higher boiling point than plain water.

CiniO

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

the correct concentration would depend on the exact coolant product i would imagine, there is no set rule for all.

I didn't encounter a concentrated coolant which would recomment other than 1:1 mixture for average use.

i also think its quite naieve of you to think that there are so few kinds of coolant. its very much like oil at this stage where you can have several different variations of castrol magnetec 5w30 etc etc.

So what are those kinds then? If you know of them, give any link to a list or something.
AFAIK there's only a few main kinds. Not even similar to huge choice of motor oils we've got.

also your overlooking one of, if not the most major factor of coolant. a property it obviously requires is to resist freezing, but this is not its purpose, which you perceive it to be.

coolants main requirement (i asume, based on my limited mechanical knowledge) is its ability to hold/ carry heat, to the radiator then have an ability to very quickly go cold and then very quickly acumulate heat again. to be a good conductor i think is the phrase.

Yep.. For this purpose pure water will be better than any coolant.
The main functions of coolant are those:
1. Prevent system from freezing.
2. Prevent corrosion.

If those 2 were not required, water would be the best coolant (deionised water, as tap water might contain limescale)


Here's few words about coolants:
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/tech-articles/coolant-antifreeze.pdf

Or here:

http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100529050826AAm9T9O

Toyotafanboi

Cinio lad your too easy, i knew you'd take the bait, you'd argue with your own shadow!

I'm not really anorak enough to follow through on this (and partly because i dont fully understand) but as technology in cars is progressing the likes of coolant is becoming more and more engine specific. Its much more in depth at this stage than green, red and blue.

concentrated coolant is exactly that. at its maximum concentration, but can be diluted to varying degrees to suit particular circumstance, lets not split hairs over that.

I could be wrong, but highly doubt that distilled water would be a better coolant than any maufactured chemical coolant product in todays modern world if freezing and corrosion weren't factors.

I admit, freezing point and corrosion inhibition are certainly necessary qualities of coolant but its main purpose really is to regulate a running engines temperature.

CiniO

mickdw wrote: »

Its not just about freezing and anti corrosion either. It has a higher boiling point than plain water.

Which is not really needed.
Cooling system is a pressure system, and due to that fact, pure water should have boiling point at about 125 degrees Celcius.
Yes - coolant will have higher, and the more concentrater, the higher boiling point will be, but that's not really needed for anything, as in normal operation coolant shouldn't go above 90 - 100 degrees.

Toyotafanboi

CiniO wrote: »

Which is not really needed.
Cooling system is a pressure system, and due to that fact, pure water should have boiling point at about 125 degrees Celcius.
Yes - coolant will have higher, and the more concentrater, the higher boiling point will be, but that's not really needed for anything, as in normal operation coolant shouldn't go above 90 - 100 degrees.

You'd better ring all the major car manufacturers and tell them they're wrong. all the millions of euro and thousands of man hours they have invested in sophisticated cooling methods is wasted. water will do. facepalm on their part.

i dont think the boiling point either is the issue. its the coolants ability to maintain a certain temperature, be that 85 degrees or whatever. its coolants ability to be at 100 degrees at the back of the block and after 10 seconds in the radiator be able to be re entering the block at 75 degrees. (numbers and times made up but i reckon thats how it works)

could regular water do the same? possible, but i doubt it.

CiniO

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Cinio lad your too easy, i knew you'd take the bait, you'd argue with your own shadow!

I'm not really anorak enough to follow through on this (and partly because i dont fully understand) but as technology in cars is progressing the likes of coolant is becoming more and more engine specific. Its much more in depth at this stage than green, red and blue.

No it isn't.
Please show me those shelves in halfords with tens of differents kinds of coolant, as you can find on oil shelves...

No you won't because there's only few kinds of coolant. Generally for older engines and newer ones...

concentrated coolant is exactly that. at its maximum concentration, but can be diluted to varying degrees to suit particular circumstance, lets not split hairs over that.

I could be wrong, but highly doubt that distilled water would be a better coolant than any maufactured chemical coolant product in todays modern world if freezing and corrosion weren't factors.

Why then in nearly all professional motorsports, they use purt distilled water as coolant?

I admit, freezing point and corrosion inhibition are certainly necessary qualities of coolant but its main purpose really is to regulate a running engines temperature.

Thermostat takes care of regulating engine temperature.
Coolant is just a fluid to do the job. Even though pure water would work great, everyone needs protection from freezing and corrosion, that's why we all use ethylene glicol or propylene glicol as coolants.

Ronnie Beck

Regular water has a higher heat capacity than anti freeze. It transfers more heat energy to the rad.

CiniO

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

You'd better ring all the major car manufacturers and tell them they're wrong. all the millions of euro and thousands of man hours they have invested in sophisticated cooling methods is wasted. water will do. facepalm on their part.

i dont think the boiling point either is the issue. its the coolants ability to maintain a certain temperature, be that 85 degrees or whatever. its coolants ability to be at 100 degrees at the back of the block and after 10 seconds in the radiator be able to be re entering the block at 75 degrees. (numbers and times made up but i reckon thats how it works)

could regular water do the same? possible, but i doubt it.

You are greatly wrong here.
Pure water will fulfill this task better than coolant.
But manufacturers must use coolant, as otherwise all cars would be wrecked after a frosty weather. Also most engines and radiators would rust into pieces after some time.
Otherwise, there's not really any advantego in using coolant.

Toyotafanboi

I'm coming around to the idea somewhat.

but struggling to believe the appropriately named "coolant" has no combined cooling down properties greater than water.

obviously anti-freeze is designed to prevent freezing, as its name suggests, but if coolant did not contain any unique cooling properties, then it too, surely would just be anti-freeze leaving no need for a definition to be created?

CiniO

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I'm coming around to the idea somewhat.

but struggling to believe the appropriately named "coolant" has no combined cooling down properties greater than water.

obviously anti-freeze is designed to prevent freezing, as its name suggests, but if coolant did not contain any unique cooling properties, then it too, surely would just be anti-freeze leaving no need for a definition to be created?

I don't think you should separate anti-freeze and coolant.
It's the same thing.

Theoretically you could use name "coolant" for any fluid used in cooling system, even water.
But in practice, by saying coolant you mean antifreeze.

It's actually the strange thing in english language that there is 2 terms (coolant and antifreeze) as in other languages, this product has just one name.

Toyotafanboi

CiniO wrote: »

I don't think you should separate anti-freeze and coolant.
It's the same thing.

but its not. and that's where my confusion lies.
i think im going to bed.

Ronnie Beck

Antifreeze + water = coolant

Toyotafanboi

Ronnie Beck wrote: »

Antifreeze + water = coolant

still a lot of variations regardless.

tankbarry

its a 1.4 i need the coolant for .

dgt

CiniO wrote: »

I wouldn't say they are all different.
There's only few kinds...

Generally you shouldn't be mixing the colours...

Blue = 2 year guarantee
Green = 3 year guarantee
Red = 5 year guarantee
Yellow = Renault stuff

Tell me that they are not different

the culture of deference

How often should we change the coolant.

Ronnie Beck

tankbarry wrote: »

its a 1.4 i need the coolant for .

I would recommend going to a honda dealer and getting OEM stuff.

Ronnie Beck

the culture of deference wrote: »

How often should we change the coolant.

2/3 years is about average.

dgt

dgt wrote: »

Blue = 2 year guarantee
Green = 3 year guarantee
Red = 5 year guarantee
Yellow = Renault stuff

Tell me that they are not different

the culture of deference wrote: »

How often should we change the coolant.

.......

sean1141

the culture of deference wrote: »

How often should we change the coolant.

The coolant that comes in the mondeo is meant to last the lifetime of the car...

Katunga

The Coolant in Volkswagen Group cars is meant to last the lifetime of the car. However if you top it up with normal G12 coolant you will void this. The coolant in Volkswagen group cars Is Pink.

mathepac

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

the correct concentration would depend on the exact coolant product i would imagine, there is no set rule for all. ...

Yes in fairness, the quality ones come with instructions; just RTFM as they say.

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

... its very much like oil at this stage where you can have several different variations of castrol magnetec 5w30 etc etc. ...

Castrol Magnatec - sorry but I think you could have picked a better example.

RootX

A couple of links that pretty much say coolants fall into 3 categories:
* the original glycol-based “green” antifreeze
* coolants based on organic acid technology (OAT)
* coolants based on hybrid OAT called G-05

The colour is just a dye and nothing more.

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/703/true-colors
http://www.aftermarketsuppliers.org/Councils/Filter-Manufacturers-Council/TSBs-2/English/05-2R1.pdf

fabsoul

dgt wrote: »

Blue = 2 year guarantee
Green = 3 year guarantee
Red = 5 year guarantee
Yellow = Renault stuff

Tell me that they are not different

the culture of deference wrote: »

How often should we change the coolant.

you should get the red one for €22 to €25

SilverBell

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Cinio lad your too easy, i knew you'd take the bait, you'd argue with your own shadow!

Cinio is right, you shouldnt give out to him about arguing back, then you go straight ahead and argue back yourself, esp when you are wrong!!! :eek:

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I'm not really anorak enough to follow through on this (and partly because i dont fully understand) but as technology in cars is progressing the likes of coolant is becoming more and more engine specific. Its much more in depth at this stage than green, red and blue.

Yep, but initially they used plain water, then they added glycol to lower the freezing temperature for colder places, then added additives to prevent corrosion in aluminium alloys, and more additives for mixed alloys with Fe based alloys in modern engines

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I could be wrong, but highly doubt that distilled water would be a better coolant than any maufactured chemical coolant product in todays modern world if freezing and corrosion weren't factors.

You could be wrong alright. The specific heat capacity of water is 4180 J/ Kg K, while ethylene glycol is around 2200 J/kg K. add ethylene glycol or propylene glycol and the mixtures SHC reduces. You lose here and have to upsize the radiator. You gain because your block doesnt crack in winter.

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I admit, freezing point and corrosion inhibition are certainly necessary qualities of coolant but its main purpose really is to regulate a running engines temperature.

Yep, from an engineering point of view, a high specific heat capacity will win, but for our climate, it must be suitable for year round use, so the SHC must suffer. There are few fluids as good as water for coolant (unless hydrogen, but.........mehh, na forget hydrogen).

I see Cinio takes a fair auld lash here now and again. But he is often right. Maybe thats why he draws so much fire.

I've never yet seen Cinio spouting BS on an engineering subject.

dieselbug

Antifreeze Factswww.recycool.net/index.php?option...antifreeze...antifreeze...

Stheno

Jesus this thread has turned into a right old debate!

Mycroft H

Thread reminds me to plug the leaky rad in the bangernomics Clio so I don't pop the frost plugs in the winter. It leaks about a litre a week and I've been topping it up with water since the summer.

Stheno

BX 19 wrote: »

Thread reminds me to plug the leaky rad in the bangernomics Clio so I don't pop the frost plugs in the winter. It leaks about a litre a week and I've been topping it up with water since the summer.

Radweld?
New radiator?

Mycroft H

I'll chuck some Novastop into it and see how that goes. Failing that new rad

It's the only problem in an otherwise reliable car. Can't complain for 400 squids.

tankbarry

Is it hard to drain all the coolant and replace it with new stuff. Its a 1.4 GOLF I should have said.

Katunga

tankbarry wrote: »

Is it hard to drain all the coolant and replace it with new stuff. Its a 1.4 GOLF I should have said.

What type of VW golf?
You shouldn't need to drain the coolant in a golf if its the coolant that was in the car when it left the VW factory.
Is an easy job if you can easily access the tap at the pipe going into the bottom of the radiator (most VW have a tap if not pull of the hose).

tankbarry

its a 00 golf

Ronnie Beck

http://books.google.ie/books?id=j5iTLWUUXIYC&pg=PA83&lpg=PA83&dq=mark+4+golf+coolant+change&source=bl&ots=qHHK8wZ1Y3&sig=Iqc4ApVQ_5vdpb5jfr7IJx2R9bQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=h6lpUMDcCNKFhQfFsIHIAw&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=mark%204%20golf%20coolant%20change&f=false

page 80.

It's a handy enough job. You need to find two 5 gallon drums. Cut one about a third from the bottom to make a tray and pour the used coolant into the other with a funnel. It's a hazardous waste. Don't pour it down a drain.

Pre mix the fresh coolant in a two litre bottle and pour it in very slowly. Make sure your heater is set to hot for the whole job.

It's g12 pink coolant for a MK IV. Just mix it 50 50. You can get it in any Motor factor