Class A drugs: Criminalise completely or decriminalise completely??

mikom · 25-09-2012 05:01PM

seven_eleven wrote: »

Poor or high quality its still highly addictive and a menace to society. I dont think anything good ever came from it.

Except for pain relief..........

ScumLord · 25-09-2012 05:03PM

Kurz wrote: »

I don't like this economic argument either. It seems like a massive fallacy to me.

Economics has to come into it because a lack of money can lead to deaths or a reduction in education standards. We're spending vast fortunes on a war with chemicals, a war that's impossible to win.

Randy Anders · 25-09-2012 05:15PM

Great clip featuring Graham Hancock which outlines how outrageous it is have drugs illegal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk3EBmiURgw

frag420 · 25-09-2012 05:32PM

mikom wrote: »

Slurryface wrote: »

Gotta be Sinapore style, they take no shít there, low crime rates, low anti-social behaviour rates. Got to be a winner.

A "fine" state if you would prefer less freedoms........ and by fine I mean the ones they will slap you with as quick as look at you.

Jay-walking........ fine...... smoking in wrong area............fine........chewing gum.......fine....... failing to flush a public toilet after use.........fine.......... eating/drinking in trains/buses or on platforms.......... fine....... possession of pornography..........fine........unnatural sex (Homosexuality is expressly forbidden.)........fine.

The mantra is work a lot and keep your head down.
I hope you like a "sin tax" on alcoholic beverages as well.

Heavy fines of S$1,000 are dealt out to offenders who violate a long list of Singaporean laws. This US$680 penalty applies to:
Smoking in public places

The sale of cigarettes to minors (under age 18)

The sale or possession of chewing of gum

Vandalism

Spitting

Littering

Urinating in elevators

Feeding the pigeons

Other punishable offenses include:
Jaywalking—US$68

Possession of firecrackers—caning

Eating or drinking in the subway—US$340

Not flushing the toilet—US$100

The Possession or trafficking of >20 grams of drugs—death

http://travelogue.travelvice.com/singapore/the-fine-city-of-singapore/

If all those things are fine then great. I wish it was fine to jay walk here too!!

Oh and the only Singapore style I want us noodles. Decriminalise, regulate, tax and enjoy!!

Real Life · 25-09-2012 05:38PM

I really think anyone who says completely criminalise drugs can not think rationally. They will still be here whether legal or not, but if they were legalised and regulated they would be so much safer.
It would also create jobs and more tax for the economy.

I do realise this would be a big problem if say ireland was the only country to do this because then there would be a huge base for drug trafficking etc but i think it would work if done globally, however this wont happen so im just going to forget about it and continue to do whatever i want anyway despite the law because im not harming anyone else and im ok with that.

Piliger · 25-09-2012 05:39PM

The war on drugs has done more damage to society in the last 50 years than any other single thing.

It has produced global organised crime that is now almost unconquerable.

It has sucked billions out of our budgets that could be spent on better things.

It has exploded crime and the prison population.

It has criminalised private behaviour in a terrible and damaging way.

It has eroded our civil liberty and every day freedom to an enormous extent.

It has fuelled and financed terrorism all around the world second only to the poisonous effect of the Israeli-Palestine issue.

It has the been the craziest and most self destructive campaign ever followed by any civilisation in history.

frag420 · 25-09-2012 06:01PM

Piliger wrote: »

The war on drugs has done more damage to society in the last 50 years than any other single thing.

It has produced global organised crime that is now almost unconquerable.

It has sucked billions out of our budgets that could be spent on better things.

It has exploded crime and the prison population.

It has criminalised private behaviour in a terrible and damaging way.

It has eroded our civil liberty and every day freedom to an enormous extent.

It has fuelled and financed terrorism all around the world second only to the poisonous effect of the Israeli-Palestine issue.

It has the been the craziest and most self destructive campaign ever followed by any civilisation in history.

Dont sit on the fence!!

flyswatter · 25-09-2012 06:20PM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Legalize heroin?
I can understand hash.
But heroin?

Heroin isn't as dangerous as popularly made out to be. Most of its deleterious effects are as a result of its illegality. Sharing needles, poor quality contaminated drug, etc.

Let's not get carried away, regardless of clean needles its still dangerous and lethally addictive.

Bannasidhe · 25-09-2012 06:25PM

flyswatter wrote: »

Let's not get carried away, regardless of clean needles its still dangerous and lethally addictive.

So is smoking and drinking alcohol but both are legal.

Sir Pompous Righteousness · 25-09-2012 06:32PM

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Neewbie_noob wrote: »

Just for the record I am in favour of complete criminalisation Singapore_Style.

Singapore Style? What?

He's talking about hiding Class A drugs inside packets of Singapore Style Noodles so that junkies can't find them. Everyone knows that junkies can't stand Singapore Style Noodles.

flyswatter · 25-09-2012 07:17PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

flyswatter wrote: »

Let's not get carried away, regardless of clean needles its still dangerous and lethally addictive.

So is smoking and drinking alcohol but both are legal.

You're comparing alcohol to heroin? , notice the word lethal, alcohol won't hook you at the first taste.

AnalogueKid · 25-09-2012 07:23PM

I never thought of myself as someone who would support the regulation of heroin until I watched this documentary.

It's sometimes better to let the scientists speak. The bit with the septagenarian on his exercise bike after a fix of morphine is a real eye-opener.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC_nrLIc2Zk

ScumLord · 25-09-2012 07:31PM

flyswatter wrote: »

You're comparing alcohol to heroin? , notice the word lethal, alcohol won't hook you at the first taste.

The end results for alcohol and heroin addiction look pretty similar.

It's true it takes a while to build up a tolerance for the taste of alcohol where as heroin tastes great from the beginning.

Fromthetrees · 25-09-2012 07:35PM

mikom wrote: »

A "fine" state if you would prefer less freedoms........ and by fine I mean the ones they will slap you with as quick as look at you.

Jay-walking........ fine...... smoking in wrong area............fine........chewing gum.......fine....... failing to flush a public toilet after use.........fine.......... eating/drinking in trains/buses or on platforms.......... fine....... possession of pornography..........fine........unnatural sex (Homosexuality is expressly forbidden.)........fine.

The mantra is work a lot and keep your head down.
I hope you like a "sin tax" on alcoholic beverages as well.

Those are all fairly extreme except for the pissing in elevators bit, if you're going to be in a lift for a minute or whatever I don't want people going to the toilet next to me, I assume going number 2 is banned as well.

Bannasidhe · 25-09-2012 07:42PM

flyswatter wrote: »

You're comparing alcohol to heroin? , notice the word lethal, alcohol won't hook you at the first taste.

Are you saying alcohol isn't lethal?

rubadubduba · 25-09-2012 07:42PM

mary jane has a brain but nobody wants to trust her.

mikom · 25-09-2012 07:44PM

rubadubduba wrote: »

mary jane has a brain but nobody wants to trust her.

She grew up in a Indiana town,
Had a good lookin' mama who never was around.
But she grew up tall and she grew up right
With them Indiana boys on an Indiana night

flyswatter · 25-09-2012 07:52PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Are you saying alcohol isn't lethal?

In addictive terms, alcohol won't addict you from the get go whereas Heroin certainly will.

Not disputing any dangers of alcohol.

Jimoslimos · 25-09-2012 07:55PM

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

But won't there still be an illegal trade like that?

Hard to say, there's a balance to be found between taxing and regulating strongly and making it an attractive alternative to that provided by street dealers.

seven_eleven wrote: »

Is that why so many junkies end up passed out on the side of the street with the needle still in their arm, or desperate to get their next fix shaking and in pain with withdrawal symptoms?

From this clichéd stereotype, I seriously doubt you've seen many junkies.

flyswatter wrote: »

In addictive terms, alcohol won't addict you from the get go whereas Heroin certainly will.

Not disputing any dangers of alcohol.

That is a myth, heroin isn't addictive from the first 'hit'

666irishguy · 25-09-2012 07:55PM

I think we are kidding ourselves if we think that we can just decriminalise drugs and everything will be fine. The criminal element has already got established and has gotten a hold of the trade and is unlikely to just die out or cease criminal activity because substances are legally available. Look at the trade in illegal cigarettes which is massive, despite a packet of smokes being amongst the most common items in any size of shop. If the state legalized it, as soon as it was taxed ( and pretty heavily I would imagine) a large amount of consumers would turn to the black market. Legalize Cocaine and they would just start selling Crack cheaper. Likewise with any other drug. I'd personally rather every drug banned. I have seen too many people smoking a bit of weed, then getting a few E's off the same fellow who gave them weed and so on until they reach the harder drugs.

Real Life · 25-09-2012 08:00PM

flyswatter wrote: »

In addictive terms, alcohol won't addict you from the get go whereas Heroin certainly will.

Not disputing any dangers of alcohol.

i know plenty of people that tried heroin a few times and never got addicted

mikom · 25-09-2012 08:01PM

flyswatter wrote: »

In addictive terms, alcohol won't addict you from the get go whereas Heroin certainly will.

Utter Horseshit

666irishguy wrote: »

If the state legalized it, as soon as it was taxed ( and pretty heavily I would imagine) a large amount of consumers would turn to the black market.

I could counter that by asking you to check out what happened in the USA after drink prohibition was repealed.
Moonshine is a rarity today.

666irishguy wrote: »

I have seen too many people smoking a bit of weed, then getting a few E's off the same fellow who gave them weed and so on until they reach the harder drugs.

They visit the fella that deals in a variety because they have no other choice due to prohibition.
He never asks for ID either.

Witcher · 25-09-2012 08:03PM

What about the people who don't want to look at junkies everywhere? It's bad enough putting up with them now without even more of the doped up fcukers potentially being around.

Bannasidhe · 25-09-2012 08:05PM

flyswatter wrote: »

In addictive terms, alcohol won't addict you from the get go whereas Heroin certainly will.

Not disputing any dangers of alcohol.

What about nicotine? More addictive than heroin but freely and legally available?

Seems to me that having two highly addictive substances which have been proven to be lethal and place a huge drain on our health services perfectly legal but making other lesser or equally addictive substances illegal as they are bad for us is nonsensical.

Bannasidhe · 25-09-2012 08:09PM

Blay wrote: »

What about the people who don't want to look at junkies everywhere? It's bad enough putting up with them now without even more of the doped up fcukers potentially being around.

Well I don't want to look at people off their heads on alcohol screaming and roaring at each other but ...

Witcher · 25-09-2012 08:10PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Well I don't want to look at people off their heads on alcohol screaming and roaring at each other but ...

Wrong person to use that old chestnut on man..I don't even drink so I don't want to look at them either.

flyswatter · 25-09-2012 08:11PM

mikom wrote: »

Utter Horseshit

So in general terms you're telling me alcohol will instantly addict you more than heroin? Good one.

SuperInfinity · 25-09-2012 08:12PM

I think this is a ****ty topic and OP you know why you joker.

mikom · 25-09-2012 08:13PM

flyswatter wrote: »

So in general terms you're telling me alcohol will instantly addict you more than heroin? Good one.

No not that.
The horseshit comment was your one that heroin would addict a person instantly.
Do you stand by that?

alcohol won't addict you from the get go whereas Heroin certainly will.

666irishguy · 25-09-2012 08:16PM

mikom wrote: »

Utter Horseshit

I could counter that by asking you to check out what happened in the USA after drink prohibition was repealed.
Moonshine is a rarity today.

They visit the fella that deals in a variety because they have no other choice due to prohibition.
He never asks for ID either.

I think that old analogy of prohibition is too easy to use with regards to drugs. Booze was around long before anybody had any of the scientific advantages we have today and for good or bad had become a cultural norm. Criminalizing it was one of the stupidest moves in history. I would ask you to consider then, if we have such a problem with booze now, what will it be like once drugs are readily available. Surely the last thing we need is another drug.
Poitin and Moonshine are still being brewed today so regardless of how many fine spirits we have on the shelves, somebody still wants to drink the juice of the spud. Having to go to that middleman is too much hassle for a lot of people, or they simply wouldn't know where to reach him, and go through their lives without ever having to feel the need to smoke weed etc. You can walk down the street today and see kids as young as 12 smoking a Benson. They probably got it off somebody who bought it in a shop.

Class A drugs: Criminalise completely or decriminalise completely??

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