Class A drugs: Criminalise completely or decriminalise completely??

Neewbie_noob · 24-09-2012 08:53PM #1

Portugal has taken steps to fully decriminalise small quantities of heroin and cocaine for personal use without punishment.

It is still highly illegal in Ireland.

Is decriminalisation and full legislation good? I mean selling it in shops? This will generate revenue and even draw drug tourists.

On the other hand, addiction will still be an issue and people will still rob to fund it, and we don't want that kind of people coming to Ireland for drug tourism.

So the great people of After Hours. Which would you opt for? Compete legalisation? Or imposing the death sentence like Singapore? (if you had to choose between the two).

Tombi! · 24-09-2012 08:55PM

Legalize heroin?
I can understand hash.
But heroin?

Neewbie_noob · 24-09-2012 08:56PM

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Legalize heroin?
I can understand hash.
But heroin?

Just for the record I am in favour of complete criminalisation Singapore_Style.

Tombi! · 24-09-2012 08:58PM

Neewbie_noob wrote: »

Just for the record I am in favour of complete criminalisation Singapore_Style.

Singapore Style? What?

im invisible · 24-09-2012 08:58PM

do we have an A, B, C, classification system in ireland?

24-09-2012 08:59PM

Decriminalise.

The problems of drugs for the vast majority of the population is the criminality that is associated with it: both the gangland crimes and the petty muggings and break-ins by junkies.

However decriminalisation shouldn't mean open sale - rather that addicts or others can obtain drugs at a central controlled source at a reasonable cost.

Simply decriminalising posession without authorising supply will still leave the entire business in the hands of the criminal gangs.

Perhaps the tobacco companies could be persuaded to supply (not market) some of the B drugs. I'm serious, they do have the skills needed.

Where To · 24-09-2012 09:00PM

im invisible wrote: »

do we have an A, B, C, classification system in ireland?

There is for washing machines and dishwashers.

Madam_X · 24-09-2012 09:02PM

Decriminalised and highly controlled.

df1985 · 24-09-2012 09:02PM

Im just back from ibiza....so right now I literally never want to see the bastards again!

Usually id be for decriminalising small amounts but not heroin. Not even sure about cocaine tbh. small amounts of mdma yes, marijuana fine.

......anyone any valium

mikom · 24-09-2012 09:05PM

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Singapore Style? What?

You know Singapore Style...... like the caning of 18-year-olds and having a death penalty on non-violent crimes.
Lovely spot........

The Beast of Bodmin · 24-09-2012 09:06PM

Criminalize A class?

Why would anyone want to criminalize the best drugs?

Chuck Stone · 24-09-2012 09:07PM

Decriminalising possession is a no-brainer.

Indeed, making criminals out of people for consuming drugs is incredibly cuntish behaviour.

Drugs should be legalised and highly regulated. Prohibition is an expensive and abusive farce that creates privilege for some.

Jimoslimos · 24-09-2012 09:08PM

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Legalize heroin?
I can understand hash.
But heroin?

Heroin isn't as dangerous as popularly made out to be. Most of its deleterious effects are as a result of its illegality. Sharing needles, poor quality contaminated drug, etc.

Tombi! · 24-09-2012 09:18PM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Heroin isn't as dangerous as popularly made out to be. Most of its deleterious effects are as a result of its illegality. Sharing needles, poor quality contaminated drug, etc.

But won't there still be an illegal trade like that?

bedrock#1 · 25-09-2012 01:27PM

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

But won't there still be an illegal trade like that?

Why??

If it's cheaper and safer elsewhere ..... Would you buy a bottle of moon-shine for 40 euro when you can get Jameson in the shop for 25????

Slurryface · 25-09-2012 01:37PM

Gotta be Sinapore style, they take no shít there, low crime rates, low anti-social behaviour rates. Got to be a winner.

speedboatchase · 25-09-2012 01:39PM

Decriminilisation for me, as long as we tax the hell out of it.

gobnaitolunacy · 25-09-2012 01:43PM

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Singapore Style? What?

Noodles.

MajesticDonkey · 25-09-2012 01:51PM

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Noodles.

Koka FTW.

ScumLord · 25-09-2012 02:01PM

I don't agree with decriminalisation, I don't see what it fixes other than keeping addicts and recreational users out of overcrowded jails. While that's an improvement it doesn't stop organised crime. Let people try drugs in a controlled manor, if addiction becomes a problem for any of those people it's much more cost effective to deal with those addictions than it is to combat highly funded, organised and ruthless criminal gangs.

mikom · 25-09-2012 02:14PM

Slurryface wrote: »

Gotta be Sinapore style, they take no shít there, low crime rates, low anti-social behaviour rates. Got to be a winner.

A "fine" state if you would prefer less freedoms........ and by fine I mean the ones they will slap you with as quick as look at you.

Jay-walking........ fine...... smoking in wrong area............fine........chewing gum.......fine....... failing to flush a public toilet after use.........fine.......... eating/drinking in trains/buses or on platforms.......... fine....... possession of pornography..........fine........unnatural sex (Homosexuality is expressly forbidden.)........fine.

The mantra is work a lot and keep your head down.
I hope you like a "sin tax" on alcoholic beverages as well.

Heavy fines of S$1,000 are dealt out to offenders who violate a long list of Singaporean laws. This US$680 penalty applies to:
Smoking in public places

The sale of cigarettes to minors (under age 18)

The sale or possession of chewing of gum

Vandalism

Spitting

Littering

Urinating in elevators

Feeding the pigeons

Other punishable offenses include:
Jaywalking—US$68

Possession of firecrackers—caning

Eating or drinking in the subway—US$340

Not flushing the toilet—US$100

The Possession or trafficking of >20 grams of drugs—death

http://travelogue.travelvice.com/singapore/the-fine-city-of-singapore/

TPD · 25-09-2012 02:17PM

Another vote for legalisation and strict regulation. The strictness of the regulation should vary depending on the class of the drug.

martomcg · 25-09-2012 02:26PM

mikom wrote: »

A "fine" state if you would prefer less freedoms........ and by fine I mean the ones they will slap you with as quick as look at you.

Jay-walking........ fine...... smoking in wrong area............fine........chewing gum.......fine....... failing to flush a public toilet after use.........fine.......... eating/drinking in trains/buses or on platforms.......... fine....... possession of pornography..........fine........unnatural sex (Homosexuality is expressly forbidden.)........fine.

The mantra is work a lot and keep your head down.
I hope you like a "sin tax" on alcoholic beverages as well.

While the list is extreme in some cases. Most of it is behavior that should be punished and yet in Ireland is not.

Take the following out of the list and i see nothing wrong with it:

Smoking in public places
The sale of cigarettes to minors (under age 18)
The sale or possession of chewing of gum
Vandalism
Spitting
Littering
Urinating in elevators
Feeding the pigeons

Other punishable offenses include:

Jaywalking—US$68
Possession of firecrackers—caning
Eating or drinking in the subway—US$340
Not flushing the toilet—US$100
The Possession or trafficking of >20 grams of drugs—death

Also I would be in favor of decriminalization of certain Class C's and also for small quantities for personal use of Class A's but to completely decriminalize/tax heroin/coke - definitely not.

Linoge · 25-09-2012 02:52PM

Decriminalising small amounts is not about dealing with drug dealers or getting with the times. Its purely to free up police time that they dont have to arrest you after a body search finds a gram. Would be waste of court time too.

Coke is already legal in small quatities in Peru and Columbia, so Class A being decriminalised isn't something entirely new.

Linoge · 25-09-2012 02:57PM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Heroin isn't as dangerous as popularly made out to be. Most of its deleterious effects are as a result of its illegality. Sharing needles, poor quality contaminated drug, etc.

Absolutely true. And made worse by the crime that accompanies the addiction. The Swiss copped on to this a few years back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-assisted_treatment

mikom · 25-09-2012 02:59PM

martomcg wrote: »

While the list is extreme in some cases. Most of it is behavior that should be punished and yet in Ireland is not.

Take the following out of the list and i see nothing wrong with it:
Smoking in public places

The sale of cigarettes to minors (under age 18)

The sale or possession of chewing of gum

Vandalism

Spitting

Littering

Urinating in elevators

Feeding the pigeons

Other punishable offenses include:
Jaywalking—US$68

Possession of firecrackers—caning

Eating or drinking in the subway—US$340

Not flushing the toilet—US$100

The Possession or trafficking of >20 grams of drugs—death

Also I would be in favor of decriminalization of certain Class C's and also for small quantities for personal use of Class A's but to completely decriminalize/tax heroin/coke - definitely not.

You'd be happy enough to fine someone $680 for feeding pigeons?

You'd be happy enough to fine someone $1,000 for smoking in the park?

You'd be happy enough having someone who trafficked 20 grams of drugs put to death?

You'd be happy enough having homosexuality forbidden?
.
.

Kurz · 25-09-2012 03:05PM

If any big move is made I think it should be done on an EU-wide basis to stop any so-called "drug tourism". Drug tourism is a good thing for an economy but I'd imagine a sh1tty thing for a society. I'd hate to have a load of English in my town drugged up to the eyeballs every weekend.

I don't like this economic argument either. It seems like a massive fallacy to me. Everything these days has to have an economic benefit to be considered it seems. Even if it it had a slightly negative impact on the economy, taking control of substances like heroin and cocaine would have an immeasurable benefit socially. Economics shouldn't even come into it.

martomcg · 25-09-2012 04:02PM

mikom wrote: »

You'd be happy enough to fine someone $680 for feeding pigeons?

You'd be happy enough to fine someone $1,000 for smoking in the park?

You'd be happy enough having someone who trafficked 20 grams of drugs put to death?

You'd be happy enough having homosexuality forbidden?
.
.

I dont agree specifically with the amounts of the fines listed but agree they're reasonable things to fine for.

I'm completely anti-smoking (as an ex-smoker) and totally believe it should be banned anywhere there is a chance of a child inhaling 2nd hand smoke.

Death penalty for trafficking is excessive but unless the penalty is an actual deterrent people will continue to do so.
A life penalty here is 14yrs if that says anything.

I didnt mention homosexuality in my post because i'm neither for/against it. I simply dont care. It doesnt seem to be enforced in Singapore anyway:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Singapore

seven_eleven · 25-09-2012 04:44PM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Heroin isn't as dangerous as popularly made out to be. Most of its deleterious effects are as a result of its illegality. Sharing needles, poor quality contaminated drug, etc.

Is that why so many junkies end up passed out on the side of the street with the needle still in their arm, or desperate to get their next fix shaking and in pain with withdrawal symptoms?

You can argue "oh but thats because it is poor quality", but thats one damn ridiculous statement to make. Poor or high quality its still highly addictive and a menace to society. I dont think anything good ever came from it.

Jimoslimos · 25-09-2012 04:47PM

seven_eleven wrote: »

Poor or high quality its still highly addictive and a menace to society. I dont think anything good ever came from it.

Could make the same argument for tobacco tbh.

TheDoc · 25-09-2012 04:58PM

Sigh,

No thanks, I'd rather not have a population of junkies.

If anything I'd like all this ****ing hippy parading of "legalise" drugs criminalised...

Class A drugs: Criminalise completely or decriminalise completely??

What should we do? 86 votes

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