Rats Fed Lifetime of GM Corn Grow Horrifying Tumors, new study.

YFlyer · 20-09-2012 10:19PM

Ziphius wrote: »

So you do acknowledge that Round up weed killer was given to the rates as part of the treatment?

Don't quite understand what you're asking.

There is a Control that does not have Round up weed killer.

1ZRed · 20-09-2012 10:27PM

SuperInfinity wrote: »

1ZRed you make me laugh. Pulling out this basic stuff you probably read online recently and thinking that it makes a point in your case, I've posted all relevant things I already wanted to post and do not find it worthwhile to post anymore. Good day.

Coming from a lad who thought it would be easier and cheaper to to give out vitamin A supplements to a billion people instead of addressing the problem, I think I can safely say I'm not offended.

Capt'n Midnight · 20-09-2012 11:54PM

1ZRed wrote: »

And how might it jump so easily to another plants? They are not so easily interbred, they are diffrent species of organisms. With that logic, if I genetically engineered a dog how could I be sure the genes couldn't jump into another animal like a cat? Much the same as animals, just because they are plants, does not mean they can interbred so easily by that fact alone.

Plasmids ?

anyway many 'weeds' are just wild relatives of domesticated plants

GMOs are the future because they are the only way in which we can keep our global food supply high enough to support our already over populated planet. The fact that GMOs are in theory, healthier, better yielding and cheaper for the consumer is only a huge positive.

In theory yes.

In practice not really.

If the did things like corn that was nutritious maybe.

The price of corn has a lot to do with US subsidies. I'm picking on corn because it's displacing better crops.

How much of the world crops (and fish) are used as cattle feed ?

How much food is wasted through over production in the EU ?

There is no food shortage. It's just it's worth more converted into biofuel than when sold to starving people.

The problems with food production in the future will relate to water shortages and destruction of arable land. The cost of fertilizer might go up due to energy inputs, phosphates may be in short supply. Increasing productivity through GM won't help with these hard limits.

NewVision · 21-09-2012 12:42AM

marcsignal wrote: »

I agree. I don't trust GM food (although I'm probably eating it without even knowing).
Given the choice, I'd prefer the organic (not fcuked around with) alternative.

It's the so called 'official tests' that make me laugh. They plant the GM stuff outdoors, and tell us they are avoiding cross pollination by planting the GM stuff a few hundred yards away from regular crops.

Like, bees (that are mysteriously dying off as well) are not going to fly more than 300mts ???

and these people are supposed to be Scientists :rolleyes:

Unfortunately I can't find it anymore. But about a year ago I read a Monsanto "study" carried out in South America where they actually claimed that there would be no cross pollination of/by GM soya more than 1.2 metres away from that field.

:rolleyes:

I know what you mean...

The real problem is that there are hardly any GM scientists who are independent. The very most of them are working for the GM industry.

No wonder that the industry never (officially) have carried out a study with rats for longer than 90 days. They must have known the results!

kincsem · 21-09-2012 01:05AM

Mmmh GM popcorn.

Run_to_da_hills · 21-09-2012 01:19AM

kincsem wrote: »

Mmmh GM popcorn.

People don't seem to realize that practically all the dope seeds that are sold in head shops are genetically modified strains.

Some are even designed to produce dud seeds should a female plant ever goes to seed so a grower cant sell on the seeds should he feck up on a crop. .

Run_to_da_hills · 21-09-2012 12:26PM

France Orders Study Of Shocking GMO Corn Cancer Study

'France's government on Wednesday asked a health watchdog to carry out a probe, possibly leading to EU suspension of a genetically-modified corn, after a study in rats linked the grain to cancer.

Agriculture Minister Stephane Le Foll, Ecology Minister Delphine Batho and Health and Social Affairs Minister Marisol Touraine said they had asked the National Agency for Health Safety (ANSES) to investigate the finding.

"Depending on ANSES' opinion, the government will urge the European authorities to take all necessary measures to protect human and animal health," they said in a joint statement.'

http://www.france24.com/en/20120919-france-orders-probe-after-rat-study-links-gm-corn-cancer

Ziphius · 21-09-2012 01:01PM

YFlyer wrote: »

Don't quite understand what you're asking.

There is a Control that does not have Round up weed killer.

I wrote 'rates' instead of 'rats'. Sorry for the confusion.

Yes, the control did not have any weed killer. Two of the three treatment groups did.

Nonoperational · 21-09-2012 01:02PM

Ah ffs. Was going to start my new diet consisting of nothing but genetically modified corn, round-up and fluoride today.

Who would have thought it wouldn't be healthy...

Ziphius · 21-09-2012 01:10PM

NewVision wrote: »

The real problem is that there are hardly any GM scientists who are independent. The very most of them are working for the GM industry.

That's quite an allegation. Rothamsted Research is a public research institute in the UK that carries out research into GM crops. Likewise Teagasc in this country. Golden Rice is GM rice that produces extra vitamin A vital to prevent blindness in developing countries. Free licenses were given to farmers in these countries and, yes, they can replant the seeds.

Ziphius · 21-09-2012 01:32PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

France Orders Study Of Shocking GMO Corn Cancer Study

'France's government on Wednesday asked a health watchdog to carry out a probe, possibly leading to EU suspension of a genetically-modified corn, after a study in rats linked the grain to cancer.

Agriculture Minister Stephane Le Foll, Ecology Minister Delphine Batho and Health and Social Affairs Minister Marisol Touraine said they had asked the National Agency for Health Safety (ANSES) to investigate the finding.

"Depending on ANSES' opinion, the government will urge the European authorities to take all necessary measures to protect human and animal health," they said in a joint statement.'

http://www.france24.com/en/20120919-france-orders-probe-after-rat-study-links-gm-corn-cancer

Not surprising that this would be used politically.

Is it a coincidence that one of the authors is a homeopathist? http://www.criigen.org/SiteEn/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=60&Itemid=105.

Cheap shot? Maybe. But I know who I'd trust with the scientific method.

Somnus · 21-09-2012 01:56PM

marcsignal wrote: »

Ok, but do you think wind wouldn't carry pollen a distance over 300mts ?
How can they possibly predict weather conditions over the growth period of the plant with anything near certainty ?

It's the involvement of big corporations in all this, and their real motives, that worries me.

You can genetically modify plants without transmitting the new gene to the pollen. It's chloroplast transformation.

Have you studied genetics at all? I don't mean to be a cnut, but most of the time people who are anti-GM have no idea what they are talking about, and no expreience at all of the field.

smash · 21-09-2012 01:59PM

GM corn is in nearly everything that's mass produced. A good documentary to watch is Food Inc. to get the stats, and even since then there's been a rise in its usage.

Somnus · 21-09-2012 01:59PM

Ziphius wrote: »

Is it a coincidence that one of the authors is a homeopathist? http://www.criigen.org/SiteEn/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=60&Itemid=105.

Hahahaha, brilliant.

SuperInfinity · 21-09-2012 02:13PM

Dr.Poca wrote: »

You can genetically modify plants without transmitting the new gene to the pollen. It's chloroplast transformation.

Have you studied genetics at all? I don't mean to be a cnut, but most of the time people who are anti-GM have no idea what they are talking about, and no expreience at all of the field.

Actually a lot of the time people who are pro-GM know all the technicalities and methods precisely and have lots of ongoing experience and employment in or around the field.

You realize the problem with this?

Sky King · 21-09-2012 02:15PM

I would always be wary of the output of a scientific test that contains the words shocking and horrifying.

21-09-2012 02:20PM

There is nothing good about Monsanto.

csallmighty · 21-09-2012 02:37PM

In other news, scientists have discovered that people who have more birthdays tend to live longer.

Ziphius · 21-09-2012 02:40PM

Deleted User wrote: »

There is nothing good about Monsanto.

Monsanto provides employment for over 20,000 people world wide.

It was also one of the first companies to provide free licenses to farmers in developing countries to grow pro-vitamin A enriched Golden Rice. This has arguably saved millions of people from going blind.

Make a value judgment on a company all you like but don't attribute it to a technology it happens to use.

21-09-2012 02:53PM

Ziphius wrote: »

Monsanto provides employment for over 20,000 people world wide.
Make a value judgment on a company all you like but don't attribute it to a technology it happens to use.

Nazi's employed 10 million people.It doesnt make them angels and Like the Nazi's Monsanto have their own army after the acquisition of Blackwater. Why would a company that sells vegetables need an army ? ?

Monsanto have also created seedless fruit and veg, why ? So farmers cannot re-use these seeds so the farmers have no choice but to buy from them. If for whatever reason some of these fruit and veg do produce seeds and farmers then use these seeds Monsanto sue them. Why ?? Because Monsanto the evil effers that they are have put a patent on the food.

Once a product is patented and it becomes a business, they will do everything in their power to become the only company be able to offer this service taking out any rivals i.e food which is not genetically modified.

Ziphius · 21-09-2012 02:59PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Nazi's employed 10 million people.It doesnt make them angels and Like the Nazi's Monsanto have their own army after the acquisition of Blackwater. Why would a company that sells vegetables need an army ? ?

Monsanto have also created seedless fruit and veg, why ? So farmers cannot re-use these seeds so the farmers have no choice but to buy from them. If for whatever reason some of these fruit and veg do produce seeds and farmers then use these seeds Monsanto sue them. Why ?? Because Monsanto the evil effers that they are have put a patent on the food.

Once a product is patented and it becomes a business, they will do everything in their power to become the only company be able to offer this service taking out any rivals i.e food which is not genetically modified.

Well done sir. Godwinning yourself and missing my point entirely in a single post.

The Golden Rice provided to poor farmers was royalty free and farmers could keep and replant the seed.

Many companies hold patents this doesn't make them evil.

21-09-2012 03:09PM

Ziphius wrote: »

Well done sir. Godwinning yourself and missing my point entirely in a single post.

The Golden Rice provided to poor farmers was royalty free and farmers could keep and replant the seed.

Many companies hold patents this doesn't make them evil.

they are modifying nature and putting a patent on it.

The Golden Rice provided to poor farmers was royalty free :eek: You seem to be hanging on this as your argument. Of course they did this, its called Good PR . You find company's and people do things like this when something they are doing may not look good in the public eye.

Ziphius · 21-09-2012 03:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The Golden Rice provided to poor farmers was royalty free :eek: You seem to be hanging on this as your argument. Of course they did this, its called Good PR . You find company's and people do things like this when something they are doing may not look good in the public eye.

Oh, tedious old me standing firm in my convictions when faced with your empty bluster.

Preventing blindness in millions of poor Asians dosn't count because it was only a PR move. :rolleyes:

You do realize that companies can use PR to negatively portray their competitors?

21-09-2012 03:59PM

Ziphius wrote: »

Oh, tedious old me standing firm in my confictions when faced with your empty bluster.

Preventing blindness in millions of poor Asians dosn't count because it was only a PR move. :rolleyes:

You do realize that companies can use PR to negatively portray their competitors?

My empty bluster seems to be alot stronger then your passing wind but i wont hold that against you. But lets look at your one and only argument ,the company has given enriched golden rice, out of the goodness of their hearts as they are a company not in it for the money. Which "arguably" saved millions from blindness.

Which now "arguably" could cause tumors in the same people .

But thats ok, they have an army

Ziphius · 21-09-2012 05:03PM

Deleted User wrote: »

My empty bluster seems to be alot stronger then your passing wind but i wont hold that against you. But lets look at your one and only argument ,the company has given enriched golden rice, out of the goodness of their hearts as they are a company not in it for the money. Which "arguably" saved millions from blindness.

Which now "arguably" could cause tumors in the same people .

But thats ok, they have an army

Excuse me? That is the best you can come up with? Although considering you used a Nazi analogy in your second post I shouldn't really be surprised. Scraping the bottom of your intellectual barrel already?

Look, there is nothing wrong about a company making money. And of course it would be naive to assume that businesses are being completely altruistic.

You said that "There is nothing good about Monsanto". I gave you evidence that there are "good" things that the company has done.

There is no evidence that eating GM crops causes cancer. To insinuate this is misleading and dishonest. To deny life-changing technology to the World's most undernourished is in, my opinion, repugnant.

Norman Borlaug the scientist led the Green Revolution during the 60s, helped quintuple wheat yield in developing nations and has been personally attributed the saving of over a billion human lives.
He pretty much sums things up.

Norman Borlaug wrote: »

"Some of the environmental lobbyists of the Western nations are the salt of the earth, but many of them are elitists. They've never experienced the physical sensation of hunger. They do their lobbying from comfortable office suites in Washington or Brussels. If they lived just one month amid the misery of the developing world, as I have for fifty years, they'd be crying out for tractors and fertilizer and irrigation canals and be outraged that fashionable elitists back home were trying to deny them these things."

SamHarris · 21-09-2012 05:27PM

The disinformation in the Irish public and media about GM foods is absolutly shocking. It is far more damaging than, say for example, the evolution 'debate' in the US but alot of us sneer at them then continue to hold our own unscientific views as sacrosanct. Alot of these arguments in this thread place the posters firmly in the box with creationits - that may shock those people but you either have faith in scientific method and proper research or you do not.

Their is something fundamentaly wrong with how we deal with science and policy in this country.

SamHarris · 21-09-2012 05:29PM

Ziphius wrote: »

Norman Borlaug the scientist led the Green Revolution during the 60s, helped quintuple wheat yield in developing nations and has been personally attributed the saving of over a billion human lives.
He pretty much sums things up.

I wonder how many lives the EU policy towards GM food, steered by the ignorant pseudo-scientific critics, has had a direct hand in ending over the same period?

Ziphius · 21-09-2012 05:42PM

SamHarris wrote: »

I wonder how many lives the EU policy towards GM food, steered by the ignorant pseudo-scientific critics, has had a direct hand in ending over the same period?

TBH Sam, I reckon the EU position is simply a protectionist policy to protect European farmers from cheap, subsidized, imports of maize and soya from the US and other countries. That there is no public support in the population is just a bonus. That drugs and hormones derived from GMOs are perfectly fine while food isn't just elucidates the hypocrisy.

What need have wealthy, healthy, overfed Europeans for drought resistant, vitamin enriched, or more efficient crops?

Ziphius · 21-09-2012 05:44PM

SamHarris wrote: »

Their is something fundamentaly wrong with how we deal with science and policy in this country.

A worthy thread in it's own right and something I've noticed increasingly. Particularly with regard to GMOs, water fluoridation, and nuclear power. Though, I doubt it's exclusive to this country.

SamHarris · 21-09-2012 06:02PM

Ziphius wrote: »

TBH Sam, I reckon the EU position is simply a protectionist policy to protect European farmers from cheap, subsidized, imports of maize and soya from the US and other countries. That there is no public support in the population is just a bonus. That drugs and hormones derived from GMOs are perfectly fine while food isn't just elucidates the hypocrisy.

What need have wealthy, healthy, overfed Europeans for drought resistant, vitamin enriched, or more efficient crops?

Excellent point. It still does not excuse the enormous ignorance on a matter that kills dozens (hundreds?) every day.

If it were something as 'sexy' as a Wesetern war that was resulting in the same human tragedy there would be thousands on the streets. Instead it is a problem with us, not another 'them', and so the appetite to confront it does not exist.

The irony that it is the same hippy 'organic' movement that is one of the most disgusted with Western decadence is lost on them Im sure.

Rats Fed Lifetime of GM Corn Grow Horrifying Tumors, new study.

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