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First the teachers and now the doctors

  • 17-09-2012 08:23PM
    #1
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭


    New consultants will start on 30% less that the current consultant's after a new agreement.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Good.


  • #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 53,068 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Link? Opinion?


  • #4
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,755 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Private vs New Public vs Old Public, it gonna be epic!!!


  • #5
    plumbball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31 ✭plumbball


    Poor things they will only earn 200,000 a year now:(


  • #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It was one of the headline on the 6 o clock news RTE


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  • #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 53,068 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    mariaalice wrote: »
    It was one of the headline on the 6 o clock news RTE

    As per the charter, if you're going to start a thread, at least give your own opinion on the matter.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63152622&postcount=21

    dr.bollocko wrote: »
    Not every news story needs a thread on After Hours. Don't just post up a link to a news article just because nobody else has. Add something to it. Your own point of view.
    If you do start a thread, be prepared to contribute to it yourself, especially if you expect others to do so.


  • #8
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm not sure about the argument about the brake down of social solidarity between different generations in Irish society.. but now I am not so sure it cant be good that one section of society ( older and already employed ) keep what they have at the experience of the younger newer entrances.


    On the other had I am totaly for the brake up of the closed shop the professions in Ireland are, merely becoming a consultant/ doctor/barrister/solicitor etc should not be the equivalent of having a lotto ticket.


  • #9
    notnumber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,564 ✭✭✭notnumber


    mariaalice wrote: »
    I'm not sure about the argument about the brake down of social solidarity between different generations in Irish society.. but now I am not so sure it cant be good that one section of society ( older and already employed ) keep what they have at the experience of the younger newer entrances.


    On the other had I am total for the brake up of the closed shop the professions in Ireland are, merely becoming a consultant/ doctor/barrister/solicitor etc should not be the equivalent of having a lotto ticket.

    The younger generation it could be argued will be able to buy more affordable housing hence the reduction is justified.


  • #10
    jessiejam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 778 ✭✭✭jessiejam


    New recruits starting on €116k p.a.
    I'm not sure how many hours per week this is for, but according to Prof. Stephen Cusack in the CUH, they are currently paying registrars and locums €60 per hour. Over a 39 hour week that works out at €121k per annum.
    He said he doesn't know how they can attract consultants to work for 116k p.a. for a sometimes 59 hour week with no day off, when a locum can earn 121k for a 39 hour week.

    No link for this just heard it on the radio on the way home from work.

    I think it should be either or though. You are either employed by the HSE or you work privately. I have no idea what kind of money consultants are making privately but judging by some waiting lists, there is no shortage of patients willing to pay. Its like €150 per consultation. This on top of a HSE salary is incredible.

    Consultants salaries only make up 0.02% of the Health budget at present, so I'm not sure it would have a huge impact. Again this is what I heard on the radio today so its only 3rd hand information.


  • #11
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Sure they can easily make up the difference with their private work



    Shame on the older generation for selling out the young 'uns.


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  • #12
    admiralofthefleet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭admiralofthefleet


    still paid too much, and most of them are partners in the car park companies milking people in the hospitals, imo


  • #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 53,068 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Please include a link to all news articles when starting threads regarding same.

    From RTE website:
    It follows the conclusion of talks involving the Irish Hospital Consultants Association, the Irish Medical Organisation and the HSE at the Labour Relations Commission.

    HSE National Director of Human Resources Barry O'Brien said the new salary rate for consultants would be between €116,000 and €121,000.

    Mr O'Brien said consultants did not agree with the new rate but they were aware of the HSE's decision to proceed with it and implement it.

    Full story here

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0917/consultant-hse-talks.html


  • #14
    gara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 361 ✭✭gara


    I'm sick of the younger generation getting crapped on. We're the future of this country -if there's a cut to be made, let the mess-makers take it!!


  • #15
    rugbyman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭rugbyman


    Maria Alice,
    nice piece of negotiating by both sides. clearly the way to go. winners on each side,Govt. saves money, efficiency improves,and the overpaid consultants still keep their existing salaries(I think), which they and the population at large know are too high.
    I believe that few of the overpaid in this country are that comfortable about it. they still mingle in their neighbourhood and in their (golf) clubs with people who are not on the gravy train. the rift between those who are paid by the State and the Rest of us is quite deep and growing.

    having consultants earning less than those who are on the old scale,alongside those who are on the new(lesser) scale will cause a wee bit if resentment,to the discomfort of the higher paid i expect/hope

    Regards Rugbyman

    i assume/hope that other deals are in the pipeline at different levels


  • #16
    moons
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2 ✭moons


    On the other had I am total for the brake up of the closed shop the professions in Ireland are, merely becoming a consultant/ doctor/barrister/solicitor etc should not be the equivalent of having a lotto ticket.


    MERELY BECOMING?:
    I'll just put it out there, to merely become a consultant in Ireland, one has to 1. compete to get an internship (yes having made it through medical school)
    2. work in varied locations throughout the country as an sho, not getting paid overtime; everybody loves spending a bank holiday working for free, while paying 2k a year to the training body, plus med council fee plus insurance
    3. get on an SPR scheme- no mean feat fyi
    4. spend about 5-6 years being told where to work and who for
    5. complete research, unpaid- about another 2 years
    6. fellowship abroad, about another 2 years
    7. await a consultancy here, depending on the specialty, could be 20 others+ going for the same job
    all the while trying to raise a family etc
    No wonder most Irish graduates are choosing to emigrate and stay abroad.


  • #17
    recyclebin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,578 ✭✭✭recyclebin


    Apparently consultants pay only make up 0.02% of the total health bill so 30% of 0.02% is a very small saving in the scheme of things


  • #18
    WumBuster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭WumBuster


    Typical the young people coming in get cut whilst the old guard get to keep their salaries. Wheres the fairness in that?


  • #19
    Wanderer2010
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,743 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    James O Reilly, on the RTE news tonight, couldnt really answer the question put to him that "How can they hire new consultants on a lesser wage when they couldnt even fill the same positions last year, and thats with higher wages?", he flustered about and said that the new rostering system would eliminate overtime and pay premiums...dodging the original question. He makes a very bad impression on me, seems a wooly brained man who doesnt even know whats going on, awful eejit.


  • #20
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I know it a long and difficult journey to become a consultant that was not my point, most professions in Ireland have very restricted entry requirements and were often a closed shop thus making them very well paid I don't agree with that a profession should not make you rich just because its a profession!


  • #21
    ilovesleep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    notnumber wrote: »
    The younger generation it could be argued will be able to buy more affordable housing hence the reduction is justified.

    More affordable housing compared to say an older doctor, maybe. Take an older doctor who is near retirement, perhaps in his 60s. If he has a home, he would have taken a mortgage maybe 20, 25 or 30 years ago. His house back then would have been much cheaper, and his salary would have climbed throughout the boom. His house would be paid off by now, no doubt. If he's in debt, with loans it's probably due to gambling on property.
    I know someone who knows loads of doctors, and in a practice, about two years ago, to stay afloat and for survival of the practice, all doctors working there needed to take a pay cut. A meeting was called and all doctors bar one were in agreement. The one who wasn't, a near retirement doctor, up to his eyeballs on debt due to property gambling.

    I'd say that there are many, near retirement people, up and down the country, instead of looking forward to their retirement, they are up to their eyeballs in debt. Perhaps a second mortgage for a holiday home. You see any body nearing retirement would have bought perhaps in the 70s or 80s. With the property bubble and over inflation of wages their house would have been paid. And they were led with a false sense of security, everything built on quicksand.

    And we have nama - keeping property prices artificial for the younger generation.


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  • #22
    seanie_m
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 ✭seanie_m


    There seems to be this mass opinion out there that the current consultants agreed to this, and are screwing over their future co-consultants. I don't know where or how that started, but its not the case - the government & HSE have decided to implement this and its not up for discussion, never was. The consultants said they did not agree to it, but are aware that the HSE don't give a fiddlers and are going to ploguh ahead anyway.
    Poor reporting in about 80% of the news articles I've read on the matter so far. But then again, why let the facts get in the way when we can have a right go at somebody.


  • #23
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    notnumber wrote: »
    The younger generation it could be argued will be able to buy more affordable housing hence the reduction is justified.

    That is exactly it. They will be entering at a time when everything has changed. I don't get the concern of people who normally are calling for PS paycuts. They are getting cheaper services into the future. The new staff will have the option to take the job or not that will be their choice. They will base their mortgage and other costs around this. Just as the present PS staff did in their time. It is further proof that most of the attacks on the current PS workers is pure spite and begrudgery.


  • #24
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    mariaalice wrote: »
    I'm not sure about the argument about the brake down of social solidarity between different generations in Irish society.. but now I am not so sure it cant be good that one section of society ( older and already employed ) keep what they have at the experience of the younger newer entrances.


    On the other had I am totaly for the brake up of the closed shop the professions in Ireland are, merely becoming a consultant/ doctor/barrister/solicitor etc should not be the equivalent of having a lotto ticket.

    I have to laugh out loud, I personally know barristers after college, the kings inns and a number of years in practice who earn less than minimum wage. Unemployment among solicitors is high, in some areas of the country there are no solicitors under the age of 30 (many have qualified just no jobs) While many earn a fortune like in many areas lots don't.


  • #25
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Things are changing which is good but there was/is a lot of kicking and giving out by some of the professions anyone remember how the pharmacy profession in Ireland use be.

    The profession should provide you with a modest middle class income entrepreneurs and risk takers should be the ones making money in Ireland it would be good for society and the education system.


  • #26
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    mariaalice wrote: »
    risk takers should be the ones making money in Ireland

    Like property developers and speculators?

    If any one should be paid well it's the people saving lives, not the people gambling with large sums of borrowed money.


  • #27
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I said risk takes ( and that means the risk of loosing your money )...There is nothing wrong in being a property developer as long as you are prepared to take you losses with you gains.


  • #28
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    mariaalice wrote: »
    I said risk takes ( and that means the risk of loosing your money )...There is nothing wrong in being a property developer as long as you are prepared to take you losses with you gains.

    Unfortunately, they take the gains, and the tax-payer takes the losses.


  • #29
    Janedoe10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 479 ✭✭Janedoe10


    As some one posted earlier our minister could not answer the question ( we cannot fill consultant posts at current salaries)
    Yet minister says new posts will be at lower salaries.
    Who suffers ? US the people going into hosp or waiting to seek some consultant.
    No doubt we will train up docs to be exported out if this country and other countries benefit .
    This is another brain drain .
    Each group in that meeting had their own agenda .


  • #30
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    I love the "good" etc comments. I'd love for some people to go and watch what a consultant does in an average day in a public hospital. Not to mention the horrendous **** a NCHD has to put up with for many many years before that.

    Anyway, at least people that have no clue about the job are happy. I'd seriously have to think about working as a consultant on a public only contract in Ireland now.


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  • #31
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I have the highest respect for anyone who becomes a consultant because of the hard work involved right from your early teens you would have been working very had to get where you are. That dose not take from my argument that the profession should not be perceived as a ticket to a lucrative way of making money.


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