French alps shootings

DUBLINHITMAN · 10-09-2012 10:03am #1

The more this story goes on the more I think it was the English may of had something to do with it ,
He was under suvailence for a couple of months a few years back by the mi5 or mi6
Mentions of coming from Iraq fleeing sadams regime .
Ex raf cyclist first on the scene maybe second .
Neighbours evacuated from there home in Surrey uk.
Putting Perspex around the cordoned off area of the house .

Maybe it's a bomb in the house
The safest way to get to the bomb with out saad al hilli triggering it was to kill him while he was on holiday ,
Baffled to be honest

DUBLINHITMAN · 10-09-2012 10:43am

DUBLINHITMAN wrote: »

The more this story goes on the more I think it was the English may of had something to do with it ,
He was under suvailence for a couple of months a few years back by the mi5 or mi6
Mentions of coming from Iraq fleeing sadams regime .
Ex raf cyclist first on the scene maybe second .
Neighbours evacuated from there home in Surrey uk.
Putting Perspex around the cordoned off area of the house .

Maybe it's a bomb in the house
The safest way to get to the bomb with out saad al hilli triggering it was to kill him while he was on holiday ,
Baffled to be honest

40 minutes later sky Inform us of bomb disposal unit enter the house

JJJJNR · 10-09-2012 1:18pm

Talked about this a good bit over the weekend, I think it was either a political attack i.e. breivik, or history catching up.

I don't buy the "bomb in the house" sky are running, and also I think the way the Children are being named etc is terrible, they should be protected for once a gagging order should be implemented for their safety and identity.

humanji · 10-09-2012 1:47pm

It's a false alarm in the house, apparently. But it's a vary strange case so far. While it's possibly that it was just a random hate crime by a nut job, there's so many little strange bits of information coming out that really confuse things. I guess we won't be able to get a good picture of things until a few weeks time when the facts are cleared up a bit more.

asherbassad · 10-09-2012 3:42pm

humanji wrote: »

It's a false alarm in the house, apparently. But it's a vary strange case so far. While it's possibly that it was just a random hate crime by a nut job, there's so many little strange bits of information coming out that really confuse things. I guess we won't be able to get a good picture of things until a few weeks time when the facts are cleared up a bit more.

If it was a government hit then the truth will never come out (remember David Kelly?....total stonewall)

snafuk35 · 10-09-2012 3:51pm

asherbassad wrote: »

If it was a government hit then the truth will never come out (remember David Kelly?....total stonewall)

Dr. Kelly committed suicide.

"It is my opinion that the main factor involved in bringing about the death of David Kelly is the bleeding from the incised wounds to his left wrist. Had this not occurred he may well not have died at this time. Furthermore, on the balance of probabilities, it is likely that the ingestion of an excess number of co-proxamol tablets coupled with apparently clinically silent coronary artery disease would both have played a part in bringing about death more certainly and more rapidly than would have otherwise been the case. Therefore I give as the cause of death: 1a. Haemorrhage; 1b. Incised wounds to the left wrist; 2. Co-proxamol ingestion and coronary artery atherosclerosis."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/oct/22/david-kelly-postmortem-self-inflicted

humanji · 10-09-2012 3:53pm

Let's keep this on the subject at hand, instead of getting sidetracked.

Tzar Chasm · 10-09-2012 4:57pm

JJJJNR wrote: »

Talked about this a good bit over the weekend, I think it was either a political attack i.e. breivik, or history catching up. Ah ye

I don't buy the "bomb in the house" sky are running, and also I think the way the Children are being named etc is terrible, they should be protected for once a gagging order should be implemented for their safety and identity.

Only royals/politicians/celebs caught with their pants down deserve gagging orders, fvck ordinary people their lives belong in the tabloids to be ruthlessly picked apart, heaping a bit more emotional damage on these kids wont do them any harm, and anyway they're only foreigners so their lives aren't worth as much.

DUBLINHITMAN · 10-09-2012 5:24pm

Glad I'm not the only one that thinks its all a bit suss
Latest is that the bomb unit were called as a precaution .
And the 25 shots were fired from the same weapon indicating one shooter ,

I also agree that naming the kids was a bad idea .
The grand mother with the Swedish passport has she been named yet??

That ex raf cyclist is bugging me thou
First on the scene ,
I wonder who else spotted the green 4x4 and the motorbike leaving or was it just him.

Tzar Chasm · 10-09-2012 5:38pm

See there's where the whole thing gets a bit suspect, each of the adults was shot twice in the head, that's 8 bullets, I've done a bit of hunting and that's hard even seasoned hunters will have difficulty making 3 kills like that in rapid succession(let's presume that a time space exists where the older daughter was beaten and the cyclists arrival) so why the 17 other bullets?

DUBLINHITMAN · 10-09-2012 5:55pm

The cyclist that was shot I think he was shot 5 times. Not 100% on that thou

Tzar Chasm · 10-09-2012 6:16pm

Now that I think about it a bit more I suppose it makes sense, if the cyclist had more bullets in him the rest probably did too, it reminds me a bit of something called 'confirming the kill' which is standard practice amongst some organisations

snafuk35 · 10-09-2012 11:08pm

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

See there's where the whole thing gets a bit suspect, each of the adults was shot twice in the head, that's 8 bullets, I've done a bit of hunting and that's hard even seasoned hunters will have difficulty making 3 kills like that in rapid succession(let's presume that a time space exists where the older daughter was beaten and the cyclists arrival) so why the 17 other bullets?

You clearly haven't heard of the "Mozambique Drill"?
You put several bullets into the centre mass or torso and follow that up with one or two shots to the head.
I figure the shooter fired shots into the car and hit the three adults, he chased the girl who ran from the car and beat her and then the cyclist turned up so he shot him too. Then he finished them off with shots to the head.
Things happened fast, he panicked, screwed everything up leaving the two girls alive. Then he legged it in another car and was on the first flight out of there.

weisses · 11-09-2012 9:11am

Isn't there some kind of code among hitman that you don't assassinate children ? ... Thats why i think its a professional hit ..

I don't think the killer panicked

Myrddin · 11-09-2012 9:44am

weisses wrote: »

Isn't there some kind of code among hitman that you don't assassinate children ? ... Thats why i think its a professional hit ..

I don't think the killer panicked

But one of them was shot three times & severely beaten...some code

weisses · 11-09-2012 10:54am

EnterNow wrote: »

But one of them was shot three times & severely beaten...some code

There are different (conflicting) reports on what happened to the older girl .. What i read is that all the people who got killed got shot 2 times in the head and the girl got shot in the shoulder and got beaten over the head ... but no matter how you read it imo all the adults were killed in a very professional manner and yet the children are still alive

Morrisseeee · 11-09-2012 11:29am

What about the cyclist (who was killed) ?!

Is he just an unfortunate victim or is there more to the story ?!

Why was he shot 5 times, and the other cyclist was spared, if he (presumably) saw them fleeing the scene (in a 4x4 and a motorbike) ?!

Myrddin · 11-09-2012 11:30am

weisses wrote: »

There are different (conflicting) reports on what happened to the older girl .. What i read is that all the people who got killed got shot 2 times in the head and the girl got shot in the shoulder and got beaten over the head ... but no matter how you read it imo all the adults were killed in a very professional manner and yet the children are still alive

Yeah but my point being, if there's a code that an assassin won't kill a child...why shoot/beat child in the first place? If it was a professional operation, it ended up having far from professional results

It's a bizarre case though

weisses · 11-09-2012 11:52am

EnterNow wrote: »

Yeah but my point being, if there's a code that an assassin won't kill a child...why shoot/beat child in the first place? If it was a professional operation, it ended up having far from professional results

It's a bizarre case though

Yeah very Bizarre .... Maybe she got accidentally Hit (shot) ..My point is that If they wanted that kid to die they would have done so ... The reason why the kid got severely beaten is also a mystery to me

DUBLINHITMAN · 11-09-2012 12:47pm

Maybe it was a way of extracting information out off the father ,
As said before its a bazaar event and
Baffles me

snafuk35 · 11-09-2012 1:58pm

weisses wrote: »

Yeah very Bizarre .... Maybe she got accidentally Hit (shot) ..My point is that If they wanted that kid to die they would have done so ... The reason why the kid got severely beaten is also a mystery to me

Maybe the shooter ran out of bullets?

The French police think he was using a Skorpion

weisses · 11-09-2012 2:03pm

snafuk35 wrote: »

Maybe the shooter ran out of bullets?

Unlikely ... the skorpion hold 20 rounds but they found 25 casings ... suggesting to me he reloaded

Larsso30 · 11-09-2012 2:04pm

been thinking there is something somewhat suspect about this myself. I wonder if his being from Iraq may have had something to do with it. ? Old scores catching up with him

humanji · 11-09-2012 2:13pm

We don't really know the full extent of the girls wounds, so it could be that she ran from the car, the shooter chased her, grabbed her and knocked her to the ground. Then shot her and assumed she'd died before going back to make sure the rest were dead.

Or, the beating would also give credence to the possibility that it was a deranged loon with a gun. He either randomly chose that car or stalked the family (possibly some sort of anti-Muslim nut who thought he was killing invaders, for example) and killed them. The girl runs off, he gives chase, shooting after her and hits her. In a rage he beats her as the adrenaline rush takes over.

Tzar Chasm · 11-09-2012 2:39pm

snafuk35 wrote: »

weisses wrote: »

Yeah very Bizarre .... Maybe she got accidentally Hit (shot) ..My point is that If they wanted that kid to die they would have done so ... The reason why the kid got severely beaten is also a mystery to me

Maybe the shooter ran out of bullets?

The French police think he was using a Skorpion

One of the news sites report the caliber as 7.56, so that's most likely an ak47

enno99 · 11-09-2012 2:42pm

humanji wrote: »

Or, the beating would also give credence to the possibility that it was a deranged loon with a gun. He either randomly chose that car or stalked the family (possibly some sort of anti-Muslim nut who thought he was killing invaders, for example) and killed them. The girl runs off, he gives chase, shooting after her and hits her. In a rage he beats her as the adrenaline rush takes over.

looks like there was more than 1 shooter according to the police

According to prosecutors all four victims were shot twice in the head, increasing speculation that the family were victims of a professional hit.

It was also reported that French police are hunting two killers after discovering that more than one weapon was used in the shootings.

France shooting: was Saad Al-Hilli assassinated over secret defence contract?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9531436/France-shooting-was-Saad-Al-Hilli-assassinated-over-secret-defence-contract.html

Nuclear link to French Alps massacre: Murdered Saad al-Hilli worked at top-secret British lab

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/french-alps-shooting-nuclear-link-1314562

Authorities in France identified the fourth victim, a cyclist who apparently stumbled across the scene by chance, as Sylvain Mollier, a father of three who lived in the area and worked in the nuclear industry.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/world/view/police-look-for-answers-in-french-alps-killings

15.48 (13.48 BST): A former RAF veteran, who has a second home in Saint Jorioz, was riding his bicycle nearby when he was overtaken by a French cyclist. After riding into the car park, seven-year-old Zainab stumbled towards him before collapsing.

The man alerted the emergency services and performed first aid on the girl. He also reportedly smashed the window of the locked car, which still had its engine running. The bodies of a man, in the driver's seat, and two women, in the back of the car, were inside

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9525866/France-shooting-Timeline.html

humanji · 11-09-2012 3:41pm

Were the people in the car only shot twice in the head, or were they sprayed with bullets, two of which hit each their heads?

enno99 · 11-09-2012 3:58pm

humanji wrote: »

Were the people in the car only shot twice in the head, or were they sprayed with bullets, two of which hit each their heads?

Its hard to tell whats true at this stage or if the truth will ever be known

Initial reports from the French authorities had said they were shot once in the head. A "double tap" where two bullets are shot into the same location is a favoured method of professional killers.

He said: "All four were killed by several bullets and all four were hit twice in the head."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9530707/France-shooting-prosecutor-confirms-victims-shot-twice-in-the-head.html

snafuk35 · 11-09-2012 3:59pm

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

One of the news sites report the caliber as 7.56, so that's most likely an ak47

7.62mm X 39mm ammunition is used by the AK-47. That's a much more powerful high velocity round.

The Skorpion instead uses ammunition that is typically used by pistols and other submachine guns.

Different versions of the Skorpion can use .32 ACP (7.65×17mm Browning SR) (vz. 61, vz. 61 E) and also 9×19mm Parabellum (vz. 68) 9×18mm Makarov (vz. 65, vz. 82) .380 ACP (9×17mm Short) (vz. 64, vz. 83) depending on the version.

snafuk35 · 11-09-2012 4:05pm

enno99 wrote: »

Its hard to tell whats true at this stage or if the truth will ever be known

Initial reports from the French authorities had said they were shot once in the head. A "double tap" where two bullets are shot into the same location is a favoured method of professional killers.

He said: "All four were killed by several bullets and all four were hit twice in the head."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9530707/France-shooting-prosecutor-confirms-victims-shot-twice-in-the-head.html

It might not have been a professional killer.
Anyone who has read spy novels or seen action movies might have heard of the "double-tap."
The killer could have got hold of a gun by whatever method and just killed them.
The victims were in the confined space of the parked car when they were killed so the killer could have fired his gun from just inches away.

snafuk35 · 11-09-2012 4:10pm

humanji wrote: »

Were the people in the car only shot twice in the head, or were they sprayed with bullets, two of which hit each their heads?

If the killer was firing an automatic or semiautomatic weapon rapidly it would be unusual but not impossible to hit a group of victims twice in the head each. When you are firing rapidly especially in full automatic your aim is not going to be good especially with a small submachine gun like the Skorpion which is going to be bucking about with the recoil.

Usually when shooting at a target since your eye is only going to be focused on one point at any one time, the eye is going to look first at the target and then focus on the gun sight which is going to visually overlap with the target which is going to go out of focus. It would be difficult if not impossible to fire rapidly in semi-automatic or in full automatic and get exactly two hits in the head to multiple victims.

In semi-automatic when you are firing slow single shots you can achieve much greater accuracy so it could be possible to shoot a number of people twice in the head. It would be much easier when they are seated in a car and you are standing over them practically with their heads only inches away from the gun.

French alps shootings

Comments