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Traveller woman beaten to death in Louth.**Mod warning in post 1**

124678

Comments

  • #92
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    My name is URL wrote: »
    It happens quite a lot more in the non-traveller community, but we don't assume that it's our own tradition.
    I'd love to see the stats to back up that claim.


  • #93
    Karen23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,871 ✭✭✭Karen23


    Status from the RIP Jacqueline Quinn Mc Donagh Facebook page :

    R.i.p Jacqueline Quinn McDonagh
    jacquelines family has asked me to remove the name quinn frm the mcdonagh i am sorry as i can not do this and it is not for the want of trying just to many people have liked thiis page for me to do this now the computer will not let me im sorry.... rip jack ♥ ♥ ♥ sweetdream's jack ♥ ♥ ♥


  • #94
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    mango salsa wrote: »
    That doesn't make it a traveller tradition and saying it's a tradition is a disgusting thing to say

    I worked with a traveller organisation in my time and on several occasions when a woman would come in with marks, bruises etc and confided in us they would never take our advice to report the matter as they said it was their tradition that their husbands could hit them. They would never report it to the Garda. I actually asked a Garda discreetly to keep an eye on a certain home on one of these occasions and he told me that they would not make a complaint and that he never received a complaint from a traveller woman on this issue.

    What part of my post was disgusting ?


  • #95
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Gloomtastic! wrote: »
    I volunteer at a local women's refuge a couple of times a year and there are always traveller women there.

    In the travelling community the beaten women are shunned by their friends/family. Something to do with their culture. The only place they can go is the refuges.

    Did you ever hear of one of them taking their husband to court either, i didn't?


  • #96
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    tayto lover wrote: »
    What part of my post was disgusting ?
    Speaking unpleasant truths is disgusting.


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  • #97
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I worked with a traveller organisation in my time and on several occasions when a woman would come in with marks, bruises etc and confided in us they would never take our advice to report the matter as they said it was their tradition that their husbands could hit them. They would never report it to the Garda. I actually asked a Garda discreetly to keep an eye on a certain home on one of these occasions and he told me that they would not make a complaint and that he never received a complaint from a traveller woman on this issue.

    What part of my post was disgusting ?

    Saying that it is a tradition for traveller men to beat their wives is frankly disgusting. Some might do it but frankly I do not believe that all traveller men are encouraged to beat their wives and I have worked with some traveller women as well.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #98
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    mango salsa wrote: »
    That doesn't make it a traveller tradition and saying it's a tradition is a disgusting thing to say

    I don't see lads dragging girls outside down my local nightclub

    They can do it though, it's their culture.....

    Security standing there doing nothing but look on

    The narraters there explains about dominance and why its done. A man must dominate or he won't be considered a man

    Grabbing when they are young, no wonder there does be violence often times after they get married

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gIT1L7MhNY


  • #99
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    Speaking unpleasant truths is disgusting.

    It's an awful life for some of them. Closing the Traveller Workshops was a very bad move by the Govt too. These centres gave the older traveller women the only few hours of social life they ever got. Just to save a few bob too.


  • #100
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,918 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Karen23 wrote: »
    Status from the RIP Jacqueline Quinn Mc Donagh Facebook page :

    R.i.p Jacqueline Quinn McDonagh
    jacquelines family has asked me to remove the name quinn frm the mcdonagh i am sorry as i can not do this and it is not for the want of trying just to many people have liked thiis page for me to do this now the computer will not let me im sorry.... rip jack ♥ ♥ ♥ sweetdream's jack ♥ ♥ ♥

    Does this mean war(feud) for the Quinns and the McDonaghs?


  • #101
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    Also heard its a domestic.

    Is the husband the lad who bit the guy he was fighting in the documentary?

    Yeah he seemed a bit of a psycho.


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  • #102
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Saying that it is a tradition for traveller men to beat their wives is frankly disgusting. Some might do it but frankly I do not believe that all traveller men are encouraged to beat their wives and I have worked with some traveller women as well.

    Of course not all of them do it but some do and think it is their right to do so. Nobody said anything about encouraging it at all. Where did you get that from ?


  • #103
    dharma200
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 998 ✭✭✭dharma200


    Its funny when a man beats his wife to death, such as Joe whatshisname murdering scumbag... he is just a woman beater and murderer, But when it happens to travellers it is tradition? Ofcourse its not traditon. There are woman being beat all round this country right now... its not tradition for any group.

    using the 'I worked with travellers' thing, well, really you shouldnt if you are of the conclusion that domestic violence is something more inherrant in their community than it is in any other.


  • #104
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Of course not all of them do it but some do and think it is their right to do so.

    That does not make it a tradition or culture

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #105
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    dharma200 wrote: »
    Its funny when a man beats his wife to death, such as Joe whatshisname murdering scumbag... he is just a woman beater and murderer, But when it happens to travellers it is tradition? Ofcourse its not traditon. There are woman being beat all round this country right now... its not tradition for any group.

    using the 'I worked with travellers' thing, well, really you shouldnt if you are of the conclusion that domestic violence is something more inherrant in their community than it is in any other.
    +1000000

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #106
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    mango salsa wrote: »
    That does not make it a tradition or culture

    Then you need to talk more with them yourself.
    How do you explain the lack of court cases about it then in the traveller community?


  • #107
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    dharma200 wrote: »
    Its funny when a man beats his wife to death, such as Joe whatshisname murdering scumbag... he is just a woman beater and murderer, But when it happens to travellers it is tradition? Ofcourse its not traditon. There are woman being beat all round this country right now... its not tradition for any group.

    using the 'I worked with travellers' thing, well, really you shouldnt if you are of the conclusion that domestic violence is something more inherrant in their community than it is in any other.

    Lets try a few stats

    Yeah it's old but it states it was the best research out there at the time

    And the first I found in google, it'll do
    According to the Government Departments (Health and Justice) who have responsibilities in this area, the NCC study is the definitive piece of research on domestic violence in this country

    The report
    Ireland:
    On Tuesday 5th July 2005 the National Crime Council (NCC), in association with the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI), published the first ever large scale study undertaken to give an overview of the nature, extent and impact of domestic abuse against women and men in intimate partner relationships in Ireland. Among the notable findings are:

    Nothing strange here, affects both men and women
    15% of women and 6% of men suffer severe domestic abuse
    29% of women and 26% of men suffer domestic abuse when severe and
    minor abuse are combined
    13% of women and 13% of men suffer physical abuse
    29% of women (1 in 3) and only 5% of men (1 in 20) report to the Gardaí

    Huge over-representation here, almost half. How does a tiny group of the population account for almost half the visits to these refuges?
    49% of admissions to women’s refuges are Travellers (according to the 2002 census Travellers account for just 0.6% of the entire population)
    Of those turned away from refuges, 46% were for reasons other than
    the refuges being full.

    I got told I was selectively quoting by Nodin a while back!

    Everything there is from the first paragraph, nothing taken out, just switched the order, a bit easier to read

    http://www.amen.ie/Papers/15270.htm


  • #108
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    tayto lover wrote: »
    How do you explain the lack of court cases about it then in the traveller community?

    The same as the settled community

    Fear
    Inability to be financially independent

    The lack of court cases still does not make it a culture or tradition and frankly it's completely offensive to say it's traditional for travellers to beat their wives

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #109
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    mango salsa wrote: »
    That does not make it a tradition or culture
    It's not helpful to ignore the facts on the ground in a desperate attempt to be PC.
    Kay's story may be similar to that of the 25% of women in the UK who are thought to experience domestic violence during their lifetimes – six to 10% of women suffer it in any given year – but a recent paper by the Equality and Human Rights Commission, suggests that women from the Gypsy and Traveller communities who report domestic violence will often have suffered it more severely and over a considerably longer period than other women. Although there is no conclusive evidence about the prevalence of this abuse, the paper cites a study in Wrexham, which found that between 61 and 81% of married Gypsy and Traveller women had experienced direct abuse from a partner.
    Pretending the problem isn't endemic does a huge disservice to Traveller women and children for a start.


  • #110
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    mango salsa wrote: »
    The same as the settled community

    Fear
    Inability to be financially independent

    The lack of court cases still does not make it a culture or tradition and frankly it's completely offensive to say it's traditional for travellers to beat their wives

    Many of them go to refuges but I have never heard of or read of a court case out of any of it. Ask some traveller men and women yourself then?
    Is the grabbing thing imaginary too?


  • #111
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    It's not helpful to ignore the facts on the ground in a desperate attempt to be PC.

    Pretending the problem isn't endemic does a huge disservice to Traveller women and children for a start.

    I'm not ignoring anything. I am stating that it is hugely offensive to generalise about domestic violence in the travelling community and call it a tradition or culture

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • #112
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    mango salsa wrote: »
    I'm not ignoring anything. I am stating that it is hugely offensive to generalise about domestic violence in the travelling community and call it a tradition or culture
    If between 60% to 80% of people do something, does that not make it part of their culture? :confused:

    And what's offensive is throwing the women and the kids under the bus by ignoring the problem.


  • #113
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    mango salsa wrote: »
    I'm not ignoring anything. I am stating that it is hugely offensive to generalise about domestic violence in the travelling community and call it a tradition or culture

    Well then you should try to prove the post wrong then. Maybe do some research on it, interview a few travellers yourself.
    I worked with them and listened to their stories. I don't know where you worked but i saw a lot of women travellers and spoke to them about it and that is what they told me.
    I am not in the habit of making up lies on such a serious subject as domestic abuse.


  • #114
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Ar dheis Dé go raibh a h-anam. It is tragic that three children - at the terribly vulnerable ages of 14, 10 and 5 - will have to grow up without the love, care and advice of their mother. They will never show off their first party outfits to her, or run home with a prize from school to Mammy, they will never now turn proudly to her at their wedding dinner and praise her upbringing for the good it brought them. Their memory of her is forever soiled and destroyed by her awful death. All her ambition for them - all her hope that her children might have made her proud and happy - may yet come about, but she will never see this, and they will never share it with her. Three little lives ruined, and their mother gone.


  • #115
    OnTheCounter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 430 ✭✭OnTheCounter


    True.

    The 5 year old might not suffer the psychological damage but the 14 and 10 year old could be terribly affected by this for the rest of their lives. I hope they get the right professional care to deal with this as best they can.


  • #116
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    OnTheCounter wrote: »
    True.

    The 5 year old might not suffer the psychological damage but the 14 and 10 year old could be terribly affected by this for the rest of their lives. I hope they get the right professional care to deal with this as best they can.

    My uncle was 5 when he saw his mother's funeral pass by; his life was destroyed.


  • #117
    android1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭android1


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    My uncle was 5 when he saw his mother's funeral pass by; his life was destroyed.

    Bloody hell.


  • #118
    Mr Whirly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 689 ✭✭✭Mr Whirly


    Gloomtastic! wrote: »
    I volunteer at a local women's refuge a couple of times a year and there are always traveller women there.

    I volunteered in a women's refuge while in school many years ago.There are always settled women there too.

    If you take the socioeconomic background of a lot of women that end up in these shelters you will find a lot of them come from disadvantaged communities. The traveling community is one of these.

    If a woman from a middle to wealthier class family suffered the same abuse they would have less a call to enter such a place being more likely to have their own money or friends with money.


  • #119
    LoonyLovegood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,068 ✭✭✭LoonyLovegood


    I knew her when she lived in Finglas, she came into the wash-house I helped out in, absolutely lovely woman, doted on the kids. She was the only woman out of the travellers who came in whose husband helped her lift the bags in, if it was him I'd be shocked. May she rest in peace and I hope those kids are alright, they were lovely to talk to, very well mannered and polite.


  • #120
    ananas
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 390 ✭✭ananas


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    Ar dheis Dé go raibh a h-anam. It is tragic that three children - at the terribly vulnerable ages of 14, 10 and 5 - will have to grow up without the love, care and advice of their mother. They will never show off their first party outfits to her, or run home with a prize from school to Mammy, they will never now turn proudly to her at their wedding dinner and praise her upbringing for the good it brought them. Their memory of her is forever soiled and destroyed by her awful death. All her ambition for them - all her hope that her children might have made her proud and happy - may yet come about, but she will never see this, and they will never share it with her. Three little lives ruined, and their mother gone.

    This has brought tears to my eyes. So true. Poor things.


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  • #121
    wonderfulname
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    Mr Whirly wrote: »
    If you take the socioeconomic background of a lot of women that end up in these shelters you will find a lot of them come from disadvantaged communities. The traveling community is one of these.

    Thank you, and I would wonder if the same holds true for values with respect to reporting domestic violence, and the importance of marriage, the family, etc, travellers generally struck me as what I'll call traditionally Irish in a way a lot of people of certain upbringings are, I think it's a problem with our culture in general, one we like to pretend we're past, not just a subculture within it.


This discussion has been closed.
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