Why is the Irish Language refered to as Gaelic abroad?

bluecode · 28-08-2012 06:43PM

Just be glad you're in a country that's actually heard of Ireland. All too often it's a complete mystery to some of the people I come across.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 28-08-2012 07:28PM

oldmangrub wrote: »

Now it's not that similar. It's a different language, not a different dialect. Someone from Cork will be able to understand someone from Donegal a hell of a lot easier than someone from Scotland. You'd need a dictionary. Same with other languages of common root.

Edit: Sorry I linked a Scots Gaelic/Irish dictionary to show you what I meant but it wasn't very good.

Disagree I know people from Scotland who are fluent Scots Gaelic speakers who speak with Donegal Irish speakers with ease. They understand and converse with each other in a way that surprised me

28-08-2012 07:34PM

Gaelic is probably a lot easier to pronounce than Gaelige for foreigners.

newmug · 28-08-2012 07:47PM

FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gaelic / Gaeilge / Gallic / Celtic / Gaulish / Gaul / Goidhlic = ALL THE SAME THING!!!!!!

ALL of Europe was dominated by the Celtic / Gaelic culture and language at one time. Sure the entire country of France was once called Gaul! It was pushed west, eventually survivng strongest in Ireland. Yes, there are different dialects, but the roots are all the same. Look at GLASgow in Scotland, CAEN in France, there's even commonalities with words in the Turkish language that have survived from the dominating Gaelic / Celtic culture that once existed in Europe. OP its calles Irish now because thats where Gaeilc is most often spoken. But it really IS Gaelic.

http://www.gaelicplacenames.org/index.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scottish_Gaelic_place_names

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_toponymy

paky · 29-08-2012 10:16AM

Sindri wrote: »

Gaelic doesn't exist in France. It's only exists in Scotland, Ireland and the Isle of Man. Also when they were interrogating the prisoners at Frongoch some of the prisoners, as a protest, replied in Irish. So they had to get a Scottish corporal (I think) who spoke Scots-Gaelic to translate.

Wasn't this mentioned in Tim Pat Coogans Michael Collins? As I recall, the Scots Gaelic speaker hadn't a clue what they were saying so so much for it being a different dialect.

Cú Giobach · 29-08-2012 10:58AM

paky wrote: »

Wasn't this mentioned in Tim Pat Coogans Michael Collins? As I recall, the Scots Gaelic speaker hadn't a clue what they were saying so so much for it being a different dialect.

Can you imagine an older person with a thick accent from rural West Cork speaking to an older person with a thick accent from the Scottish Highlands, in English.

mconigol · 29-08-2012 11:01AM

God I hate it when strangers take an interest in me, why don't they do some bloody research!

Enkidu · 29-08-2012 11:10AM

English has been in contact with Irish for centuries and hence has long had several names for the language beyond "Irish". Also most native speakers in the 19th century called the language Gaelic when speaking English and they carried that name over to America and Australia.

Finally the use of the word Gaeilge for the language is a standardised form, specific to certain areas of Connacht. In most dialects (the dialects of most Leinster, including Dublin, Eastern Connacht and most of Ulster) the language was called Gaeilg, pronounced virtually the exact same way as the English word.

My grandmother, a native speaker, never called the language Irish when speaking about it.

languagenerd · 29-08-2012 11:21AM

A lot of foreigners think that Irish is similar to English. I had great fun trying to explain that to people from all over Europe in a language school in Spain.

"But that's a dialect of English, isn't it?"
"If you're an English speaker, you can read/understand most Irish, right?"
"They're from the same family of languages, aren't they?"

People genuinely don't have a clue (and they have no reason to, in fairness). They were even more confused when I tried to explain the language situation here though. "It's a completely different language, sounds nothing like English. But it's not our native language, and most Irish people don't really use it... even though it's on all our signs... and we learn it for 14 years and still can't speak it"

And then a Swedish man came in, heard me talking about Irish and announced "Is mise Lars! Conas atá tú?". It was then my turn to be confused!

Cú Giobach · 29-08-2012 11:30AM

Enkidu wrote: »

English has been in contact with Irish for centuries and hence has long had several names for the language beyond "Irish". Also most native speakers in the 19th century called the language Gaelic when speaking English and they carried that name over to America and Australia.

Finally the use of the word Gaeilge for the language is a standardised form, specific to certain areas of Connacht. In most dialects (the dialects of most Leinster, including Dublin, Eastern Connacht and most of Ulster) the language was called Gaeilg, pronounced virtually the exact same way as the English word.

My grandmother, a native speaker, never called the language Irish when speaking about it.

And around here (as I guess you know yourself) people speak Gaelainn.

That's a word I've automatically used as long as I can remember when speaking and never even thought about, until someone pointed out I always write Gaeilge (I have to concentrate harder writing in Irish) and told me being from Cork I should be speaking Gaelainn.

Pherekydes · 29-08-2012 11:31AM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I think you're being waaaaay too generous with that figure! I thought it was 10,000 or so?

There are more than 43000 pupils being educated in Gaelscoileanna outside the Gaeltacht areas.

Sure it will be grand · 29-08-2012 12:14PM

Believe it or not, English speakers actually called the language "Irish" for centuries. It was the Irish-speaking immigrants who spead the word "Gaelic" (Gaedhilge) around the place.

Also, it seems to me that the people who have a problem with the language being caled Gaelic usually don't have a word of it themselves. Native speakers often call the language Gaelic or Gaeilge when speaking in English.

Lustrum · 29-08-2012 12:24PM

As some have pointed out, I think the word Gaelic is used to differentiate it from English - you'd be amazed how many people here in the UK think that me saying I speak Irish means it's just an Irish version of English!

The woman I live with hears me speaking Irish everyday on the phone, and I'm still not sure she realises it's a completely different language to English. One day when I came off the phone she starts giggling and goes "Irish, it's like you're speaking Spanish", and then walks off going "cerveza, por favor, la cuenta..."

She's not very bright...

Tombo2001 · 29-08-2012 12:26PM

languagenerd wrote: »

A lot of foreigners think that Irish is similar to English. I had great fun trying to explain that to people from all over Europe in a language school in Spain.

"But that's a dialect of English, isn't it?"
"If you're an English speaker, you can read/understand most Irish, right?"
"They're from the same family of languages, aren't they?"

People genuinely don't have a clue (and they have no reason to, in fairness). They were even more confused when I tried to explain the language situation here though. "It's a completely different language, sounds nothing like English. But it's not our native language, and most Irish people don't really use it... even though it's on all our signs... and we learn it for 14 years and still can't speak it"

And then a Swedish man came in, heard me talking about Irish and announced "Is mise Lars! Conas atá tú?". It was then my turn to be confused!

Look at the languages of India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_India

Look at the languages that have 10, 20, 30 millions speaking them and most people here I would bet have never heard of these languages.

People are uptight because some foreigners arent aware what the technically correct term is for our native language that only can 30,000 people speak properly......(yes thats right folks, equivalent to the population of Navan).

Pherekydes · 29-08-2012 04:18PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

...our native language that only can 30,000 people speak properly......(yes thats right folks, equivalent to the population of Navan).

No, that's wrong:

Pherekydes wrote: »

There are more than 43000 pupils being educated in Gaelscoileanna outside the Gaeltacht areas.

HavingCrack · 29-08-2012 04:45PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

No, that's wrong:

Even those statistics are flawed due to the fact there's a large amount of people who live outside Gaeltacht areas and didn't attend gaelscoileanna who speak Irish to near fluency or at least a level of high enough compotence, like myself for example

. The fact that I speak Irish and didn't attend an all-Irish school really throws a suprising number of people.

Insect Overlord · 29-08-2012 09:54PM

HavingCrack wrote: »

Even those statistics are flawed due to the fact there's a large amount of people who live outside Gaeltacht areas and didn't attend gaelscoileanna who speak Irish to near fluency or at least a level of high enough compotence, like myself for example . The fact that I speak Irish and didn't attend an all-Irish school really throws a suprising number of people.

Makes two of us!

Rachineire · 29-08-2012 10:12PM

We were taught in school in the states, and in popular culture that the language was called Gaelic. I didn't know any different until I met my Irish husband.

languagenerd · 29-08-2012 10:13PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Look at the languages of India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_India

Look at the languages that have 10, 20, 30 millions speaking them and most people here I would bet have never heard of these languages.

People are uptight because some foreigners arent aware what the technically correct term is for our native language that only can 30,000 people speak properly......(yes thats right folks, equivalent to the population of Navan).

Not entirely sure why you quoted my post with that - I wasn't giving out about people calling it Gaelic, I was offering an explanation of sorts

People think "Irish" is our dialect of English, so that could be one reason why they say "Gaelic" for the Irish language (provided that they know it exists in the first place).

You are right about India though, I've only heard of 7 of those languages before. (That said, I knew that there were others, just not what they were).

Tombo2001 · 29-08-2012 10:18PM

languagenerd wrote: »

Not entirely sure why you quoted my post with that - I wasn't giving out about people calling it Gaelic, I was offering an explanation of sorts People think "Irish" is our dialect of English, so that could be one reason why they say "Gaelic" for the Irish language (provided that they know it exists in the first place).

You are right about India though, I've only heard of 7 of those languages before. (That said, I knew that there were others, just not what they were).

i meant it to complement your post, not to disagree with it.....sorry if that wasnt clear.

languagenerd · 29-08-2012 10:19PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

i meant it to complement your post, not to disagree with it.....sorry if that wasnt clear.

Sorry, that was me misinterpreting it!

(After Hours does that to you, you think everyone's out to start a fight :pac:)

Tombo2001 · 29-08-2012 10:21PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

No, that's wrong:

given the many students I know that attend gael scoils, I'd be doubtful that this amount, if put to the pin of their collars could speak Irish fluently.

anyway.....30'000.....50'000.......70'000..so what...its a tiny amount of actual speakers, if you are talking about "we should expect foreigners to know that its called Irish and not gaelic"...

No we shouldnt expect that. We are a small nation, and less than 5% of the population speaks the indigenous language fluently.

I wouldnt hear a person speaking Irish on the streets of dublin more than once a year.

Dont get me wrong, I think the Irish language is a valuable cultural resource......valuable to us as a people......but expecting foreigners to know the ins and outs (or anything at all) of our indigenous language is in my view borne out of a misplaced sense of entitlement about Irelands importance in the world.

NegativeCreep · 29-08-2012 10:23PM

paky wrote: »

Whenever I convert with people on my travels the topic of languages often comes up. Usually it starts with a question such as ''Do you speak your own language in Ireland?'' and I usually respond with ''Yes we do, we speak Irish aswel as English but its a minority language.'' The unassuming person often replies with ''Oh...Irish, is that Gaelic?'' and I often reply with ''No, its not''.
It's very annoying when this happens, imo, tecnically speaking, Gaelic is not a language but a collective term refering to a set of langauges in Britain, France and Ireland, so refering to Irish as being Gaelic is technically incorrect.
So why is it people refer to Irish as Gaelic when as far as understanding goes, I have never met a person who spoke Irish that could understand Scots Gaelic or let alone speak it?

:eek: How dare they not know everything about our dead language! The cheek!

1ZRed · 30-08-2012 12:25AM

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Cád?

I hate this. It's "Céard", nothing worse than hearing people go around pronouncing "Cád", "cod".

I'd be more worried about the standard of Irish and it's pronunciation than what people call it abroad tbh

opti0nal · 30-08-2012 07:38AM

1ZRed wrote: »

I'd be more worried about the standard of Irish and it's pronunciation than what people call it abroad tbh

There's Irish and then there's the pidgin dialect of 'Cooplafockal' which is mostly English with a few phrases of Irish or 'the cupla focal' thrown in.

This is sometimes mistaken for actual fluent Irish speaking and is distorting official statistics.

Pherekydes · 30-08-2012 08:17AM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

given the many students I know that attend gael scoils, I'd be doubtful that this amount, if put to the pin of their collars could speak Irish fluently.

anyway.....30'000.....50'000.......70'000..so what...its a tiny amount of actual speakers, if you are talking about "we should expect foreigners to know that its called Irish and not gaelic"...

No we shouldnt expect that. We are a small nation, and less than 5% of the population speaks the indigenous language fluently.

I wouldnt hear a person speaking Irish on the streets of dublin more than once a year.

Dont get me wrong, I think the Irish language is a valuable cultural resource......valuable to us as a people......but expecting foreigners to know the ins and outs (or anything at all) of our indigenous language is in my view borne out of a misplaced sense of entitlement about Irelands importance in the world.

No matter the reasons for posters trying to water down these figures, the reality is that they are very much higher.

If 3000 kids start Gaelscoil now another similar figure ceased full-time education in June. These kids didn't suddenly lose their ability to speak Irish. These school-going kids also have families (surprisingly) and some of these families speak Irish too.

Fuinseog · 30-08-2012 08:28AM

paky wrote: »

Whenever I convert with people on my travels the topic of languages often comes up. Usually it starts with a question such as ''Do you speak your own language in Ireland?'' and I usually respond with ''Yes we do, we speak Irish aswel as English but its a minority language.'' The unassuming person often replies with ''Oh...Irish, is that Gaelic?'' and I often reply with ''No, its not''.
It's very annoying when this happens, imo, tecnically speaking, Gaelic is not a language but a collective term refering to a set of langauges in Britain, France and Ireland, so refering to Irish as being Gaelic is technically incorrect.
So why is it people refer to Irish as Gaelic when as far as understanding goes, I have never met a person who spoke Irish that could understand Scots Gaelic or let alone speak it?

I speak Gaelic. in Gaeilge. its not a batty boy language as Ali G would imply. i do not speak Celtic.

when you say you speak Irish some people believe that to be hiberno English.

Fuinseog · 30-08-2012 08:30AM

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

What wrecks my head is when they pronounce 'Gaelic' as 'Gallic'. I've heard it a lot from seemingly intelligent people on BBC programmes. BBC!!!

Gallic people were from France...

no quite, they are referring to Scots Gaelic and Gaelic tends to be pronounced Gallic is Scotland.

Fuinseog · 30-08-2012 08:31AM

Fromthetrees wrote: »

People speak Irish outside of school?

I wish I could meet one of these people.

you should spend some time outside the Pale then.

DingChavez · 30-08-2012 08:58AM

Calling it Irish is an English speaking Irish nationalist thing. The Irish langauge and its dialects went by many names in the past. Poor Irish speaking immigrants probably lead to it being referred to by Gaelic outside Ireland. Gaelic refers specifically to the languages developed in Ireland. It is not interchangeable with Celtic or Gaulish.

Why is the Irish Language refered to as Gaelic abroad?

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