Why is the Irish Language refered to as Gaelic abroad?

paky

Whenever I convert with people on my travels the topic of languages often comes up. Usually it starts with a question such as ''Do you speak your own language in Ireland?'' and I usually respond with ''Yes we do, we speak Irish aswel as English but its a minority language.'' The unassuming person often replies with ''Oh...Irish, is that Gaelic?'' and I often reply with ''No, its not''.
It's very annoying when this happens, imo, tecnically speaking, Gaelic is not a language but a collective term refering to a set of langauges in Britain, France and Ireland, so refering to Irish as being Gaelic is technically incorrect.
So why is it people refer to Irish as Gaelic when as far as understanding goes, I have never met a person who spoke Irish that could understand Scots Gaelic or let alone speak it?

Maybe they are confusing it with "As Gaelige"

Luap

We are gaelic-ers.

minidazzler

Because they don't know any better and you can't really expect them to.

Do you know the name of every language spoken in the US? Creole, Spanish, English etc. We have a strange language which is similar to 2 or 3 other languages in the world, you can't expect the whole world to know the correct name of a language that is spoken fluently by less than 200,000 people.

You might ask a Chinese person do they speak Mandarin or Cantonese, but there are a few hundred dialects and other languages of the same origin as both.

Kurz

I met a lad who was fluent in Gaelic, he kept going on about breaking ball and corner forwards, I couldn't understand a word of it.

Duckworth_Luas

paky wrote: »

...refering to Irish as being Gaelic is technically incorrect.

Cád?

Tombi!

Irish Gaelic.
It's probably the most commonly known of the Gaelic languages, I think.

And it is technically correct; it's refered to as "Gaelic" outside of Ireland. In the UK I think Gaelic is Scot's Gaelic.

It's just a common name abroad.

TAlderson

minidazzler wrote: »

You might ask a Chinese person do they speak Mandarin or Cantonese, but there are a few hundred dialects and other languages of the same origin as both.

Yeah, and Chinese people are probably annoyed when people say "do you speak Chinese?" as if it's all one language.

I had an Italian teacher who told me that she could barely understand a lot of people from the south, because they had dialects there that were so different from standard Italian (which is technically the Tuscan dialect). But of course, anyone who doesn't speak a word of Italian would probably assume everything sounds the same. If you don't speak the language, it's pretty difficult to distinguish between it and its cousins/relatives. The fact that Irish refers to itself as Gaeilge probably helps add to the confusion.

-Tyler

starbelgrade

The problem with making polite conversation with strangers is that there is always a chance that they will correct you on something you said & bore you to tears putting you straight on something you neither knew nor cared about and will forget about instantly as soon as you can squirm your way out of their now unwanted company.

BraziliaNZ

minidazzler wrote: »

spoken fluently by less than 200,000 people.

I think you're being waaaaay too generous with that figure! I thought it was 10,000 or so?

neil_hosey

having problems with people pronunciation of the language name, is the least of the worries the irish language has. Are you fluent OP? and if not, why the fúck would you give a shít how a firdiner pronounces it?

Fromthetrees

People speak Irish outside of school?

I wish I could meet one of these people.

Tombi!

Fromthetrees wrote: »

People speak Irish outside of school?

I wish I could meet one of these people.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=904

Tombo2001

paky wrote: »

It's very annoying when this happens, imo, tecnically speaking, Gaelic is not a language but a collective term refering to a set of langauges in Britain, France and Ireland, so refering to Irish as being Gaelic is technically incorrect.

That, I didnt know.

And I am Irish.

So I wouldnt really expect a Canadian to know the difference either.

purplepanda

A Scots Highland Girl I knew used to speak Scots Gaelic / Irish regularly to a Galway lad in a company I worked for late '80's. :eek:

My understanding was that Donegal / Ulster Irish was understood by Scots Gaelic speakers.

Munster Irish could well be different, especially Waterford Ring Gaeltacht?

OP The French spoke Gaulish in Celtic times, nearest spoken language today is Welsh or Breton.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

purplepanda wrote: »

A Scots Highland Girl I knew used to speak Scots Gaelic / Irish regularly to a Galway lad in a company I worked for late '80's. :eek:

My understanding was that Donegal / Ulster Irish was understood by Scots Gaelic speakers.

Munster Irish could well be different, especially Waterford Ring Gaeltacht?

OP The French spoke Gaulish in Celtic times, nearest spoken language today is Welsh or Breton.

Your correct Donegal Gaelic is very close to Scots Gaelic and is frequently spoken between people who speak one or the other.

Badly Drunk Boy

What wrecks my head is when they pronounce 'Gaelic' as 'Gallic'. I've heard it a lot from seemingly intelligent people on BBC programmes. BBC!!!

Gallic people were from France...

oldmangrub

Breton, Welsh and Cornish are referred to as "Celtic languages" (there were others but they've died out completely)

Scots Gaelic and Irish are referred to as "Gaelic" and are both descended from Old Irish.

Gaelic is just a different word for the same thing. I'm grateful when people know we have an ethnic language and know we are not part of the UK. It's a big world we live in!

Sindri

paky wrote: »

Whenever I convert with people on my travels the topic of languages often comes up. Usually it starts with a question such as ''Do you speak your own language in Ireland?'' and I usually respond with ''Yes we do, we speak Irish aswel as English but its a minority language.'' The unassuming person often replies with ''Oh...Irish, is that Gaelic?'' and I often reply with ''No, its not''.
It's very annoying when this happens, imo, tecnically speaking, Gaelic is not a language but a collective term refering to a set of langauges in Britain, France and Ireland, so refering to Irish as being Gaelic is technically incorrect.
So why is it people refer to Irish as Gaelic when as far as understanding goes, I have never met a person who spoke Irish that could understand Scots Gaelic or let alone speak it?

Gaelic doesn't exist in France. It's only exists in Scotland, Ireland and the Isle of Man. Also when they were interrogating the prisoners at Frongoch some of the prisoners, as a protest, replied in Irish. So they had to get a Scottish corporal (I think) who spoke Scots-Gaelic to translate.

Duckworth_Luas

Tombo2001 wrote: »

That, I didnt know.

And I am Irish.

So I wouldnt really expect a Canadian to know the difference either.

You didn't know it because it's not true. He's mixing up Gaelic with Celtic.

Celtic is a family of languages spoken in ireland, Britain and France. In this family there are two branches, Goidelic and Brythonic.

The Goidelic subset includes Irish (Gaeilge), often referred to as Gaelic in the English language. It also includes Scots Gaelic and Manx.

Brythonic includes Welsh, Breton and Cornish.

oldmangrub

^^^^
OP is talking about Breton, spoken in Brittany in France.

Duckworth_Luas

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

What wrecks my head is when they pronounce 'Gaelic' as 'Gallic'. I've heard it a lot from seemingly intelligent people on BBC programmes. BBC!!!

Gallic people were from France...

'Gallic' is how Gaelic is pronounced by a Scottish English speaker.

Duckworth_Luas

oldmangrub wrote: »

^^^^
OP is talking about Breton, spoken in Brittany in France.

So? OP is still wrong! Breton is not a Gaelic language, it is a Celtic language! I explained it in my post!

Tombi!

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

So? OP is still wrong! Breton is not a Gaelic language, it is a Celtic language! I explained it in my post!

Isn't Gaelic just another name for Celtic languges?

xxyyxx

Fromthetrees wrote: »

People speak Irish outside of school?

I wish I could meet one of these people.

You know of nobody who can speak Irish outside of your school? I find that hard to believe.

Duckworth_Luas

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Isn't Gaelic just another name for Celtic languges?

No!

oldmangrub

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

So? OP is still wrong! Breton is not a Gaelic language, it is a Celtic language! I explained it in my post!

I was referring to Sindri's post, not yours, you just posted before me so my ^^^^^^^ was a bit off.

I explained that Breton is not a Gaelic language too. Just above Sindri there.

Mr Jinx

paky wrote: »

Whenever I convert with people on my travels the topic of languages often comes up. Usually it starts with a question such as ''Do you speak your own language in Ireland?'' and I usually respond with ''Yes we do, we speak Irish aswel as English but its a minority language.'' The unassuming person often replies with ''Oh...Irish, is that Gaelic?'' and I often reply with ''No, its not''.
It's very annoying when this happens, imo, tecnically speaking, Gaelic is not a language but a collective term refering to a set of langauges in Britain, France and Ireland, so refering to Irish as being Gaelic is technically incorrect.
So why is it people refer to Irish as Gaelic when as far as understanding goes, I have never met a person who spoke Irish that could understand Scots Gaelic or let alone speak it?

Someone speaking irish from Donegal might not understand or be able to speak to someone from Kerry or Cork, its all Gaelic, just different dialects

oldmangrub

Mr Jinx wrote: »

Someone speaking irish from Donegal might not understand or be able to speak to someone from Kerry or Cork, its all Gaelic, just different dialects

Now it's not that similar. It's a different language, not a different dialect. Someone from Cork will be able to understand someone from Donegal a hell of a lot easier than someone from Scotland. You'd need a dictionary. Same with other languages of common root.

Edit: Sorry I linked a Scots Gaelic/Irish dictionary to show you what I meant but it wasn't very good.

Cú Giobach

paky wrote: »

It's very annoying when this happens, imo, tecnically speaking, Gaelic is not a language but a collective term refering to a set of langauges in Britain, France and Ireland, so refering to Irish as being Gaelic is technically incorrect.

Calling Breton a Gaelic language is much much worse. Tut tut.

Petra eo ar brezhoneg evit whoops?

whatdoicare

It's far more annoying when abroad and everyone tells you that Ireland is part of the UK... including people from the UK. :rolleyes: I just nod and change the subject.
I have no idea where Gaelic comes from and why everyone in America corrects me when I tell them we speak Irish.

bluecode

Just be glad you're in a country that's actually heard of Ireland. All too often it's a complete mystery to some of the people I come across.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

oldmangrub wrote: »

Now it's not that similar. It's a different language, not a different dialect. Someone from Cork will be able to understand someone from Donegal a hell of a lot easier than someone from Scotland. You'd need a dictionary. Same with other languages of common root.

Edit: Sorry I linked a Scots Gaelic/Irish dictionary to show you what I meant but it wasn't very good.

Disagree I know people from Scotland who are fluent Scots Gaelic speakers who speak with Donegal Irish speakers with ease. They understand and converse with each other in a way that surprised me

Gaelic is probably a lot easier to pronounce than Gaelige for foreigners.

newmug

FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Gaelic / Gaeilge / Gallic / Celtic / Gaulish / Gaul / Goidhlic = ALL THE SAME THING!!!!!!

ALL of Europe was dominated by the Celtic / Gaelic culture and language at one time. Sure the entire country of France was once called Gaul! It was pushed west, eventually survivng strongest in Ireland. Yes, there are different dialects, but the roots are all the same. Look at GLASgow in Scotland, CAEN in France, there's even commonalities with words in the Turkish language that have survived from the dominating Gaelic / Celtic culture that once existed in Europe. OP its calles Irish now because thats where Gaeilc is most often spoken. But it really IS Gaelic.



http://www.gaelicplacenames.org/index.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scottish_Gaelic_place_names

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_toponymy

paky

Sindri wrote: »

Gaelic doesn't exist in France. It's only exists in Scotland, Ireland and the Isle of Man. Also when they were interrogating the prisoners at Frongoch some of the prisoners, as a protest, replied in Irish. So they had to get a Scottish corporal (I think) who spoke Scots-Gaelic to translate.

Wasn't this mentioned in Tim Pat Coogans Michael Collins? As I recall, the Scots Gaelic speaker hadn't a clue what they were saying so so much for it being a different dialect.

Cú Giobach

paky wrote: »

Wasn't this mentioned in Tim Pat Coogans Michael Collins? As I recall, the Scots Gaelic speaker hadn't a clue what they were saying so so much for it being a different dialect.

Can you imagine an older person with a thick accent from rural West Cork speaking to an older person with a thick accent from the Scottish Highlands, in English.

mconigol

God I hate it when strangers take an interest in me, why don't they do some bloody research!

Enkidu

English has been in contact with Irish for centuries and hence has long had several names for the language beyond "Irish". Also most native speakers in the 19th century called the language Gaelic when speaking English and they carried that name over to America and Australia.

Finally the use of the word Gaeilge for the language is a standardised form, specific to certain areas of Connacht. In most dialects (the dialects of most Leinster, including Dublin, Eastern Connacht and most of Ulster) the language was called Gaeilg, pronounced virtually the exact same way as the English word.

My grandmother, a native speaker, never called the language Irish when speaking about it.

languagenerd

A lot of foreigners think that Irish is similar to English. I had great fun trying to explain that to people from all over Europe in a language school in Spain.

"But that's a dialect of English, isn't it?"
"If you're an English speaker, you can read/understand most Irish, right?"
"They're from the same family of languages, aren't they?"

People genuinely don't have a clue (and they have no reason to, in fairness). They were even more confused when I tried to explain the language situation here though. "It's a completely different language, sounds nothing like English. But it's not our native language, and most Irish people don't really use it... even though it's on all our signs... and we learn it for 14 years and still can't speak it"

And then a Swedish man came in, heard me talking about Irish and announced "Is mise Lars! Conas atá tú?". It was then my turn to be confused!

Cú Giobach

Enkidu wrote: »

English has been in contact with Irish for centuries and hence has long had several names for the language beyond "Irish". Also most native speakers in the 19th century called the language Gaelic when speaking English and they carried that name over to America and Australia.

Finally the use of the word Gaeilge for the language is a standardised form, specific to certain areas of Connacht. In most dialects (the dialects of most Leinster, including Dublin, Eastern Connacht and most of Ulster) the language was called Gaeilg, pronounced virtually the exact same way as the English word.

My grandmother, a native speaker, never called the language Irish when speaking about it.

And around here (as I guess you know yourself) people speak Gaelainn.

That's a word I've automatically used as long as I can remember when speaking and never even thought about, until someone pointed out I always write Gaeilge (I have to concentrate harder writing in Irish) and told me being from Cork I should be speaking Gaelainn.

Pherekydes

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I think you're being waaaaay too generous with that figure! I thought it was 10,000 or so?

There are more than 43000 pupils being educated in Gaelscoileanna outside the Gaeltacht areas.

Sure it will be grand

Believe it or not, English speakers actually called the language "Irish" for centuries. It was the Irish-speaking immigrants who spead the word "Gaelic" (Gaedhilge) around the place.

Also, it seems to me that the people who have a problem with the language being caled Gaelic usually don't have a word of it themselves. Native speakers often call the language Gaelic or Gaeilge when speaking in English.

Lustrum

As some have pointed out, I think the word Gaelic is used to differentiate it from English - you'd be amazed how many people here in the UK think that me saying I speak Irish means it's just an Irish version of English!

The woman I live with hears me speaking Irish everyday on the phone, and I'm still not sure she realises it's a completely different language to English. One day when I came off the phone she starts giggling and goes "Irish, it's like you're speaking Spanish", and then walks off going "cerveza, por favor, la cuenta..."

She's not very bright...

Tombo2001

languagenerd wrote: »

A lot of foreigners think that Irish is similar to English. I had great fun trying to explain that to people from all over Europe in a language school in Spain.

"But that's a dialect of English, isn't it?"
"If you're an English speaker, you can read/understand most Irish, right?"
"They're from the same family of languages, aren't they?"

People genuinely don't have a clue (and they have no reason to, in fairness). They were even more confused when I tried to explain the language situation here though. "It's a completely different language, sounds nothing like English. But it's not our native language, and most Irish people don't really use it... even though it's on all our signs... and we learn it for 14 years and still can't speak it"

And then a Swedish man came in, heard me talking about Irish and announced "Is mise Lars! Conas atá tú?". It was then my turn to be confused!

Look at the languages of India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_India


Look at the languages that have 10, 20, 30 millions speaking them and most people here I would bet have never heard of these languages.

People are uptight because some foreigners arent aware what the technically correct term is for our native language that only can 30,000 people speak properly......(yes thats right folks, equivalent to the population of Navan).

Pherekydes

Tombo2001 wrote: »

...our native language that only can 30,000 people speak properly......(yes thats right folks, equivalent to the population of Navan).

No, that's wrong:

Pherekydes wrote: »

There are more than 43000 pupils being educated in Gaelscoileanna outside the Gaeltacht areas.

HavingCrack

Pherekydes wrote: »

No, that's wrong:

Even those statistics are flawed due to the fact there's a large amount of people who live outside Gaeltacht areas and didn't attend gaelscoileanna who speak Irish to near fluency or at least a level of high enough compotence, like myself for example . The fact that I speak Irish and didn't attend an all-Irish school really throws a suprising number of people.

Insect Overlord

HavingCrack wrote: »

Even those statistics are flawed due to the fact there's a large amount of people who live outside Gaeltacht areas and didn't attend gaelscoileanna who speak Irish to near fluency or at least a level of high enough compotence, like myself for example . The fact that I speak Irish and didn't attend an all-Irish school really throws a suprising number of people.

Makes two of us!

Rachineire

We were taught in school in the states, and in popular culture that the language was called Gaelic. I didn't know any different until I met my Irish husband.

languagenerd

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Look at the languages of India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_India


Look at the languages that have 10, 20, 30 millions speaking them and most people here I would bet have never heard of these languages.

People are uptight because some foreigners arent aware what the technically correct term is for our native language that only can 30,000 people speak properly......(yes thats right folks, equivalent to the population of Navan).

Not entirely sure why you quoted my post with that - I wasn't giving out about people calling it Gaelic, I was offering an explanation of sorts People think "Irish" is our dialect of English, so that could be one reason why they say "Gaelic" for the Irish language (provided that they know it exists in the first place).

You are right about India though, I've only heard of 7 of those languages before. (That said, I knew that there were others, just not what they were).

Tombo2001

languagenerd wrote: »

Not entirely sure why you quoted my post with that - I wasn't giving out about people calling it Gaelic, I was offering an explanation of sorts People think "Irish" is our dialect of English, so that could be one reason why they say "Gaelic" for the Irish language (provided that they know it exists in the first place).

You are right about India though, I've only heard of 7 of those languages before. (That said, I knew that there were others, just not what they were).

i meant it to complement your post, not to disagree with it.....sorry if that wasnt clear.