Improve bus routes

stehyl15 · 25-08-2012 08:29PM #1

Hi guys lets be creative here and tell me some changes on dublin bus route you like to see in the future and here are some of the changes i would like to see.
Route 63 extend to enniskerry and not go via carrickmines retail or ballyoan Route 84 when it was merged with the late 45 it should have gone to merrion sq. and not Blackrock without going via cherrywood or bray dart station.
Route 46a go to the Airport like the late 746 would anyone use the aircoach then and make a route 46 going to the phoenix park.
What are your thoughts. Sorry for the blank space just I made an error

Joshycat · 25-08-2012 10:00PM

Bring the Howth Road changes in ASAP so Baldoyle has the 29 bus route,run the 102 route to howth train station and also run the 84 as far as Parnell Sqaure.

Mr Simpson · 25-08-2012 10:28PM

stehyl15 wrote: »

Sorry for the blank space just I made an error

Delete the full stop at the bottom and the blank space will disappear

O/T TBH i think the 46a works fine as is, I wouldn't be in favour of extending it to the airport.

patrickbrophy18 · 26-08-2012 06:30PM

I would like to see the 59 route straightened out a lot. It goes all over the place and terminates in Mackintosh Park which isn't particularly useful. The worst part of the journey is the section between Dalkey and Rochestown Avenue which incorporates a series of lengthy detours. The 59 could be turned into a Luas feeder which would be far more useful than just terminating in Mackintosh Park. Perhaps, Sandyford would make a good terminus. Essentially, this would provide a fourth connection to the Luas from Dun Laoghaire via Sandycove, Dalkey, and Killiney.

The 7D (and maybe the 7B *) and 8 buses should be amalgamated into the 8 and rerouted from CBC Monkstown via Monkstown Avenue, Stradbrook, Monkstown Ring Road and Stillorgan and then into town. This way, it helps to augment the frequency of buses along Monkstown Avenue along with the 4. It would once again link this side of Monkstown with the Stillorgan QBC which was lost with the rerouted 46A. I'm not too sure about the frequency. Perhaps, half-hourly to hourly all week and hourly to 90 minutely on Sunday.

* 7B: The 7B bus route is largely superfluous given that it duplicates much of the functionality of the 45 and 145 bus routes and operates from Shankill which is already very well served by buses.

stehyl15 · 26-08-2012 07:22PM

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

I would like to see the 59 route straightened out a lot. It goes all over the place and terminates in Mackintosh Park which isn't particularly useful. The worst part of the journey is the section between Dalkey and Rochestown Avenue which incorporates a series of lengthy detours. The 59 could be turned into a Luas feeder which would be far more useful than just terminating in Mackintosh Park. Perhaps, Sandyford would make a good terminus. Essentially, this would provide a fourth connection to the Luas from Dun Laoghaire via Sandycove, Dalkey, and Killiney.

The 7D (and maybe the 7B *) and 8 buses should be amalgamated into the 8 and rerouted from CBC Monkstown via Monkstown Avenue, Stradbrook, Monkstown Ring Road and Stillorgan and then into town. This way, it helps to augment the frequency of buses along Monkstown Avenue along with the 4. It would once again link this side of Monkstown with the Stillorgan QBC which was lost with the rerouted 46A. I'm not too sure about the frequency. Perhaps, half-hourly to hourly all week and hourly to 90 minutely on Sunday.

* 7B: The 7B bus route is largely superfluous given that it duplicates much of the functionality of the 45 and 145 bus routes and operates from Shankill which is already very well served by buses.

yeah i know ive taken it once or twice with my friend who lives in makintosh.i was thinking of extending it to sandyford ind. est so when it gets to the turn pottery rd go straight on down johnstown rd. into cabinteely village turn right onto breananstown rd. down brigton rd. through foxrock village on to torquay rd. turn left onto leopardstown rd. at the roundabout go onto blacktorn avenue and terminate at the luas station and have a new route 8 and break it up into route 8 and 8a extend it to makintosh pk./cherrywood with the 8 operating to cherrywood and the 8a operating to makintosh do all your changes but make it use the blackrock bypass and make it go to hueston station

The Idyll Race · 26-08-2012 08:18PM

stehyl15 wrote: »

Hi guys lets be creative here and tell me some changes on dublin bus route you like to see in the future and here are some of the changes i would like to see.
Route 63 extend to enniskerry and not go via carrickmines retail or ballyoan Route 84 when it was merged with the late 45 it should have gone to merrion sq. and not Blackrock without going via cherrywood or bray dart station.
Route 46a go to the Airport like the late 746 would anyone use the aircoach then and make a route 46 going to the phoenix park.
What are your thoughts. Sorry for the blank space just I made an error

Route 63 to Enniskerry, yes to that if I can still get on at Carrickmines Station.

I use the 84/a to connect to Bray weekly from the Green Line so big NO to that!

RayM · 26-08-2012 08:30PM

stehyl15 wrote: »

Route 84 when it was merged with the late 45 it should have gone to merrion sq. and not Blackrock without going via cherrywood or bray dart station.

Route 84: Newcastle to Cherrywood Luas (via Kilcoole, Greystones, Bray - bypassing Shankill), every 40 minutes. Anybody wishing to travel further could easily transfer onto a 145 or Dart. Simple.

Victor · 26-08-2012 08:47PM

The 59 is a 'granny bus' and additionally there to serve Rehab in Mackintosh Park.

The 8 is there to keep 'well connected from Dalkey' connected to St. Vincent's Hospital and out of the hair of DB management.

The 7d is mostly there to get bus staff to work

I'm not sure what the 7b does other than operate as a short-running 145 that goes to Mountjoy Square.

Revision of the first 3 would have to be done very carefully.

stehyl15 · 26-08-2012 09:47PM

The Idyll Race wrote: »

Route 63 to Enniskerry, yes to that if I can still get on at Carrickmines Station.

I use the 84/a to connect to Bray weekly from the Green Line so big NO to that!

I said make the 63 bypass carickmines shopping centre not luas station, can u not bear the 5 minute walk to a 145 and if u cant i was thinking of extending the 184 to cherrywood

stehyl15 · 26-08-2012 09:52PM

Victor wrote: »

The 7d is mostly there to get bus staff to work

it says on the timetable that some busses go via donnybrook garage does that mean the bus goes right into the garage

stehyl15 · 26-08-2012 09:59PM

Joshycat wrote: »

Bring the Howth Road changes in ASAP so Baldoyle has the 29 bus route,run the 102 route to howth train station

sorry as i live on the southside i dont know much on nortside busses

The_Wrecker · 26-08-2012 10:15PM

Victor wrote: »

I'm not sure what the 7b does other than operate as a short-running 145 that goes to Mountjoy Square.

The 7B is the school/college runner in the AM. Its not as busy as once was but the passengers between Shankill and Carysfort are still strong. Its done its work by Stillorgan and may be useful if the QBC is in a gap.

The Idyll Race · 26-08-2012 11:56PM

stehyl15 wrote: »

I said make the 63 bypass carickmines shopping centre not luas station, can u not bear the 5 minute walk to a 145 and if u cant i was thinking of extending the 184 to cherrywood

I travel between Cherrywood Luas and Bray Station. The 145 doesn't go there. You didn't mention your revised 184 earlier.

CIE · 27-08-2012 03:36AM

RayM wrote: »

Route 84: Newcastle to Cherrywood Luas (via Kilcoole, Greystones, Bray - bypassing Shankill), every 40 minutes. Anybody wishing to travel further could easily transfer onto a 145 or DART. Simple.

No, nobody wants to feed onto the Luas. They tried that with the 68 and 69 and it was rejected. Same goes for transferring onto other local bus and rail routes for slow rides into Dublin (frankly, I used to wonder about the utility of short route 84 trips that ran Newcastle-Bray Station and suchlike, and wondered about the old 84A and current 184). If anything would solve the problem of routes like the 33, 65 and 84, it's turning these routes into full-time express routes (rather than rush-hour "Xpresso"—hate that name and "CitySpeed" was only marginally better) whose first stop after leaving Dublin would be Swords, Tallaght and Bray respectively.

CIE · 27-08-2012 04:11AM

stehyl15 wrote: »

Hi guys lets be creative here and tell me some changes on dublin bus route you like to see in the future and here are some of the changes i would like to see.
Route 63 extend to enniskerry and not go via carrickmines retail or ballyo(g)an

Route 84 when it was merged with the late 45 it should have gone to merrion sq. and not Blackrock without going via cherrywood or bray dart station.

Route 46a go to the Airport like the late 746 would anyone use the aircoach then and make a route 46 going to the phoenix park.

What are your thoughts

The old 746 used to be numbered 46A as limited-frequency journeys before getting its own route number. The 46X also served the Airport. Since there is no more cross-city direct bus service between the Airport and Dun Laoghaire provided by the state-owned bus company, I have to presume that demand was low?

I'm all for dropping the alpha suffix for the current 46A in its current incarnation (Phoenix Park-Dun Laoghaire) and making it the 46.

Since the 51/B/C are gone, the Xpresso routes that remain with those numbers ought to be rationalised into route 13 (e.g. 13X Ballymun-Dunawley) and the 51D should get its own route number given that it has a unique routing shared by no other bus route. Unless of course the experiment will soon fall by the wayside and the old route 51B/C will soon return as routes 51/A...?

Routes 54A, 56A and 77A need their alpha suffixes dropped. Route 17A was never part of route 17 and needs its own unique number (which it should have had from the beginning; it should have adopted the route number 87 that was once applied to one of the replacement bus routes for the old Howth Tram, at least). Since the 45 is now gone, the 45A should also get its own un-affixed route number (and frankly, it should have had that ages ago)...and everyone have fun walking or driving to the Esplanade in Bray since you can't get a bus there anymore; same with passengers along Putland Road. Routes 40B and 40D also need their own un-affixed route numbers.

Is route 130 still successful in its meandering form where it still operates as a combined form of the old routes 30 and 44A? Don't know about anyone else, but if I were catching the bus on Blackheath Park for example and wanted to go to town, I certainly would not want to ride three kilometres east in the wrong direction on the bus before going back in the right direction down the Clontarf Road past the Bull Wall and all.

Route 66B might do with being extended into Celbridge full time. Castletown and Hewlett Packard as dead-end termini leave the potential ridership market restricted, and it would be a good option for people who work at HP to avail of a bus between there and Celbridge whether for residence or shopping or whatever, never mind a direct link between Celbridge and Leixlip in general.

I would have merged the route 65B into the 49, as well. Split the 65 into 65 Ballymore Eustace and 65A Ballyknockan.

Missing route numbers between 1 and 100 (will not include existing ones that are alpha-suffixed): 2, 3, 5, 6, 10, 12, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 30, 34, 35, 36, 48, 52, 55, 57, 58, 60, 62, 64, 71, 72, 73, 74, 80, 81, 82, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98 and 99. Rationalisation is just a word...

Cookie_Monster · 27-08-2012 05:33AM

Victor wrote: »

I'm not sure what the 7b does other than operate as a short-running 145 that goes to Mountjoy Square.

It gives everywhere from Shankill roundabout to Bakers corner* access to the N11 corridor, no other bus does this. That's a huge stretch. i've always maintained it'd be a valid all day route in itself, take one bus per hour off the 145, 46a and 7 and give the 7b a 20 min frequency (or 2 out of 3 for 30 mins freq), you'd see good numbers I reckon.

*It's been re-routed actually hasn't it, not familiar with where it now comes onto the n11 but point valid as far as Noggin Roundabout at least.

I'd change the likes of the 84 so it actually connects with the Luas rather than leaving you 700m odd from it.

stehyl15 · 27-08-2012 11:15AM

CIE wrote: »

Routes 54A, 56A and 77A need their alpha suffixes dropped. Route 17A was never part of route 17 and needs its own unique number (which it should have had from the beginning; it should have adopted the route number 87 that was once applied to one of the replacement bus routes for the old Howth Tram, at least). Since the 45 is now gone, the 45A should also get its own un-affixed route number (and frankly, it should have had that ages ago)...and everyone have fun walking or driving to the Esplanade in Bray since you can't get a bus there anymore; same with passengers along Putland Road. Routes 40B and 40D also need their own un-affixed route numbers.

I disagree if routes were renumbered it would cause confusion, however i agree with what u said about the 17a but it should not have been called the 17a in the first place don't renumber busses now its too late

Bazzer2 · 27-08-2012 11:31AM

stehyl15 wrote: »

don't renumber busses now its too late

But during Network Direct, some routes were just re-numbered, while others were left alone, despite being re-routed.

For example, the 27A was just a re-numbering of the 42B, Route 9 was just a re-numbering of the 19A, albeit with a slight extension to Charlestown. Yet, the 46A number was left alone despite being routed away from Monkstown Farm and taking over the entire northside leg of Route 10 to the Phoenix Park.

The 46E should have been re-numbered to 6.

schemingbohemia · 27-08-2012 11:32AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

It gives everywhere from Shankill roundabout to Bakers corner* access to the N11 corridor, no other bus does this. That's a huge stretch. i've always maintained it'd be a valid all day route in itself, take one bus per hour off the 145, 46a and 7 and give the 7b a 20 min frequency (or 2 out of 3 for 30 mins freq), you'd see good numbers I reckon.

*It's been re-routed actually hasn't it, not familiar with where it now comes onto the n11 but point valid as far as Noggin Roundabout at least.

I'd change the likes of the 84 so it actually connects with the Luas rather than leaving you 700m odd from it.

Having taken the 7b a few times when I've missed the 7d I'd agree with this, it has a good amount of passengers for its own exclusive stops whereas the 7d is just a 46a in disguise, I'm usually one of about 4/5 passengers who stay on the 7d after it deviates from the 46a route.

ArmaniJeanss · 27-08-2012 11:34AM

stehyl15 wrote: »

I disagree if routes were renumbered it would cause confusion, however i agree with what u said about the 17a but it should not have been called the 17a in the first place don't renumber busses now its too late

The 'confusion' would last for a few weeks, and then quickly everyone would be used to the new numbers.
Like when the 10 to the Phoenix Park became the 46A, UK Gold2 became Dave, and Marathon became Snickers (you won't remember that last one).

LXFlyer · 27-08-2012 12:10PM

Without wanting to rain on anyone's parade, there does need to be some reality brought into this. Resources are thin on the ground - there are no spare buses in the fleet. Any changes made need to be made within this parameter.

Extending the 63 to Enniskerry would mean a longer end to end running time, which would mean frequency would have to drop. Removing it from Ballyogan would remove the link between that estate and the DLRCC offices in Dub Laoghaire - something local residents had campaigned for. Why would you remove it from Carrickmines Retail Park? It is somewhere that would generate far more custom than any extension to Enniskerry, which is adequately served by the 44 and 185 as it is.

Again extending/re-routing the 59 would mean having to lower frequency. The route (like the 63) is very much a community social route - it operates the route it does for very good reasons.

The 7b and 7d provide peak hour connections for schools and commuters that wouldn't otherwise exist. Amalgamating them with the 8 would annoy far more people than necessary.

Similarly extending the 84/84a or 184 would mean frequency would have to drop on each of the routes due to the longer running times required - there are no spare buses available. You would have far too much spare capacity between Cherrywood and Bray by extending the 184 to Cherrywood.

Ignore the early morning bus in the 7d timetable - it is actually a 7 from Dalkey via Shankill and route 7 (diverting to pass Donnybrook depot).

I imagine that effectively reinstating the 746 might lead to anti-competition action from Aircoach. Why duplicate the private service?

At the end of the day any plans for change need to be realistic - i.e. they do not require additional resources and avoid unnecessary route duplication.

Most of the ideas above do not meet either of those criteria.

stehyl15 · 27-08-2012 12:31PM

lxflyer wrote: »

Without wanting to rain on anyone's parade, there does need to be some reality brought into this. Resources are thin on the ground - there are no spare buses in the fleet. Any changes made need to be made within this parameter.

Extending the 63 to Enniskerry would mean a longer end to end running time, which would mean frequency would have to drop. Removing it from Ballyogan would remove the link between that estate and the DLRCC offices in Dub Laoghaire - something local residents had campaigned for. Why would you remove it from Carrickmines Retail Park? It is somewhere that would generate far more custom than any extension to Enniskerry, which is adequately served by the 44 and 185 as it is.

Again extending/re-routing the 59 would mean having to lower frequency. The route (like the 63) is very much a community social route - it operates the route it does for very good reasons.

The 7b and 7d provide peak hour connections for schools and commuters that wouldn't otherwise exist. Amalgamating them with the 8 would annoy far more people than necessary.

Similarly extending the 84/84a or 184 would mean frequency would have to drop on each of the routes due to the longer running times required - there are no spare buses available. You would have far too much spare capacity between Cherrywood and Bray by extending the 184 to Cherrywood.

Ignore the early morning bus in the 7d timetable - it is actually a 7 from Dalkey via Shankill and route 7 (diverting to pass Donnybrook depot).

I imagine that effectively reinstating the 746 might lead to anti-competition action from Aircoach. Why duplicate the private service?

At the end of the day any plans for change need to be realistic - i.e. they do not require additional resources and avoid unnecessary route duplication.

Most of the ideas above do not meet either of those criteria.

it could be done at a cost cutting measure by scrapping busses like the 111 like does the 111 actually have a purpose its just a short of the 7 between dun laoghaire and louglinstown and it could done with does new gts

Bazzer2 · 27-08-2012 12:39PM

stehyl15 wrote: »

and it could done with does new gts

The new GT buses are replacements, not additions to the fleet.

LXFlyer · 27-08-2012 01:19PM

The fleet is reducing in size. The new buses are not additions. They are replacing older models.

The 111 requires only 1 bus. That is not even going to come close to the numbers of buses needed to operate some of the ideas above.

stehyl15 · 27-08-2012 01:50PM

How would extending routes cost money for db like eniskerry is only a few miles from kilternan i never said increase timetables, anyway the 59's frencency could reduced as demand is low and the extra busses put on the 63

LXFlyer · 27-08-2012 02:41PM

The bus will need a longer journey time to go to Enniskerry than to Kilternan as it is a longer route.

Therefore you need more buses to maintain the existing frequency.

Where is the demand for this extension going to come from that is not already served by existing bus routes? The 44 and 185 serve Enniskerry adequately enough to meet demand from what I can see. It also adds duplication between Bray and Enniskerry.

I very much doubt the people who use the 59 would agree with your suggestion at cutting the frequency. It is only every 40 minutes on average.

Bazzer2 · 27-08-2012 03:06PM

lxflyer wrote: »

The fleet is reducing in size. The new buses are not additions. They are replacing older models.

I believe I just said that. :rolleyes:

LXFlyer · 27-08-2012 03:12PM

Indeed - but I think it needs reinforcing!!!

Cool Mo D · 27-08-2012 05:25PM

The 17 and 18 should be changed around. The 17 should take over the 18s route from Crumlin to Palmerstown, and the 18 take over the 17s route from Rialto to Kimmage. This would create an inner and an outer orbital route, instead of the strange dog leg the 17 takes now. It might also be useful to start the 18 at Heuston station.

Also, the 17 route between Blackrock and Dundrum should be simplified to go Dart station - Mount Merrion Avenue before looping up the Stillorgan dual carriageway, and turning around on the UCD flyover, then turning down Fosters avenue and going straight to Dundrum via Goatstown. This would speed up the route, as well as having to skip UCD at peak times, when the internal gates are closed.

Cookie_Monster · 27-08-2012 08:36PM

lxflyer wrote: »

The fleet is reducing in size.

indeed it is, but for no good reason. of course they'll shout recession and reduced subvention but that just a red herring to distract from the reality of yet another arm of CIE doing its level best to get rid of customers

The_Wrecker · 27-08-2012 08:36PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

*It's been re-routed actually hasn't it, not familiar with where it now comes onto the n11 but point valid as far as Noggin Roundabout at least.

.

Stillorgan (swing left) - new road to TK - Bakers and back to normal.

Improve bus routes

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