Improve bus routes

stehyl15

Hi guys lets be creative here and tell me some changes on dublin bus route you like to see in the future and here are some of the changes i would like to see.
Route 63 extend to enniskerry and not go via carrickmines retail or ballyoan Route 84 when it was merged with the late 45 it should have gone to merrion sq. and not Blackrock without going via cherrywood or bray dart station.
Route 46a go to the Airport like the late 746 would anyone use the aircoach then and make a route 46 going to the phoenix park.
What are your thoughts. Sorry for the blank space just I made an error

Joshycat

Bring the Howth Road changes in ASAP so Baldoyle has the 29 bus route,run the 102 route to howth train station and also run the 84 as far as Parnell Sqaure.

Mr Simpson

stehyl15 wrote: »

Sorry for the blank space just I made an error

Delete the full stop at the bottom and the blank space will disappear

O/T TBH i think the 46a works fine as is, I wouldn't be in favour of extending it to the airport.

patrickbrophy18

I would like to see the 59 route straightened out a lot. It goes all over the place and terminates in Mackintosh Park which isn't particularly useful. The worst part of the journey is the section between Dalkey and Rochestown Avenue which incorporates a series of lengthy detours. The 59 could be turned into a Luas feeder which would be far more useful than just terminating in Mackintosh Park. Perhaps, Sandyford would make a good terminus. Essentially, this would provide a fourth connection to the Luas from Dun Laoghaire via Sandycove, Dalkey, and Killiney.

The 7D (and maybe the 7B *) and 8 buses should be amalgamated into the 8 and rerouted from CBC Monkstown via Monkstown Avenue, Stradbrook, Monkstown Ring Road and Stillorgan and then into town. This way, it helps to augment the frequency of buses along Monkstown Avenue along with the 4. It would once again link this side of Monkstown with the Stillorgan QBC which was lost with the rerouted 46A. I'm not too sure about the frequency. Perhaps, half-hourly to hourly all week and hourly to 90 minutely on Sunday.

* 7B: The 7B bus route is largely superfluous given that it duplicates much of the functionality of the 45 and 145 bus routes and operates from Shankill which is already very well served by buses.

stehyl15

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

I would like to see the 59 route straightened out a lot. It goes all over the place and terminates in Mackintosh Park which isn't particularly useful. The worst part of the journey is the section between Dalkey and Rochestown Avenue which incorporates a series of lengthy detours. The 59 could be turned into a Luas feeder which would be far more useful than just terminating in Mackintosh Park. Perhaps, Sandyford would make a good terminus. Essentially, this would provide a fourth connection to the Luas from Dun Laoghaire via Sandycove, Dalkey, and Killiney.

The 7D (and maybe the 7B *) and 8 buses should be amalgamated into the 8 and rerouted from CBC Monkstown via Monkstown Avenue, Stradbrook, Monkstown Ring Road and Stillorgan and then into town. This way, it helps to augment the frequency of buses along Monkstown Avenue along with the 4. It would once again link this side of Monkstown with the Stillorgan QBC which was lost with the rerouted 46A. I'm not too sure about the frequency. Perhaps, half-hourly to hourly all week and hourly to 90 minutely on Sunday.

* 7B: The 7B bus route is largely superfluous given that it duplicates much of the functionality of the 45 and 145 bus routes and operates from Shankill which is already very well served by buses.

yeah i know ive taken it once or twice with my friend who lives in makintosh.i was thinking of extending it to sandyford ind. est so when it gets to the turn pottery rd go straight on down johnstown rd. into cabinteely village turn right onto breananstown rd. down brigton rd. through foxrock village on to torquay rd. turn left onto leopardstown rd. at the roundabout go onto blacktorn avenue and terminate at the luas station and have a new route 8 and break it up into route 8 and 8a extend it to makintosh pk./cherrywood with the 8 operating to cherrywood and the 8a operating to makintosh do all your changes but make it use the blackrock bypass and make it go to hueston station

The Idyll Race

stehyl15 wrote: »

Hi guys lets be creative here and tell me some changes on dublin bus route you like to see in the future and here are some of the changes i would like to see.
Route 63 extend to enniskerry and not go via carrickmines retail or ballyoan Route 84 when it was merged with the late 45 it should have gone to merrion sq. and not Blackrock without going via cherrywood or bray dart station.
Route 46a go to the Airport like the late 746 would anyone use the aircoach then and make a route 46 going to the phoenix park.
What are your thoughts. Sorry for the blank space just I made an error

Route 63 to Enniskerry, yes to that if I can still get on at Carrickmines Station.

I use the 84/a to connect to Bray weekly from the Green Line so big NO to that!

RayM

stehyl15 wrote: »

Route 84 when it was merged with the late 45 it should have gone to merrion sq. and not Blackrock without going via cherrywood or bray dart station.

Route 84: Newcastle to Cherrywood Luas (via Kilcoole, Greystones, Bray - bypassing Shankill), every 40 minutes. Anybody wishing to travel further could easily transfer onto a 145 or Dart. Simple.

Victor

The 59 is a 'granny bus' and additionally there to serve Rehab in Mackintosh Park.

The 8 is there to keep 'well connected from Dalkey' connected to St. Vincent's Hospital and out of the hair of DB management.

The 7d is mostly there to get bus staff to work

I'm not sure what the 7b does other than operate as a short-running 145 that goes to Mountjoy Square.

Revision of the first 3 would have to be done very carefully.

stehyl15

The Idyll Race wrote: »

Route 63 to Enniskerry, yes to that if I can still get on at Carrickmines Station.

I use the 84/a to connect to Bray weekly from the Green Line so big NO to that!

I said make the 63 bypass carickmines shopping centre not luas station, can u not bear the 5 minute walk to a 145 and if u cant i was thinking of extending the 184 to cherrywood

stehyl15

Victor wrote: »

The 7d is mostly there to get bus staff to work

it says on the timetable that some busses go via donnybrook garage does that mean the bus goes right into the garage

stehyl15

Joshycat wrote: »

Bring the Howth Road changes in ASAP so Baldoyle has the 29 bus route,run the 102 route to howth train station

sorry as i live on the southside i dont know much on nortside busses

The_Wrecker

Victor wrote: »

I'm not sure what the 7b does other than operate as a short-running 145 that goes to Mountjoy Square.

The 7B is the school/college runner in the AM. Its not as busy as once was but the passengers between Shankill and Carysfort are still strong. Its done its work by Stillorgan and may be useful if the QBC is in a gap.

The Idyll Race

stehyl15 wrote: »

I said make the 63 bypass carickmines shopping centre not luas station, can u not bear the 5 minute walk to a 145 and if u cant i was thinking of extending the 184 to cherrywood

I travel between Cherrywood Luas and Bray Station. The 145 doesn't go there. You didn't mention your revised 184 earlier.

CIE

RayM wrote: »

Route 84: Newcastle to Cherrywood Luas (via Kilcoole, Greystones, Bray - bypassing Shankill), every 40 minutes. Anybody wishing to travel further could easily transfer onto a 145 or DART. Simple.

No, nobody wants to feed onto the Luas. They tried that with the 68 and 69 and it was rejected. Same goes for transferring onto other local bus and rail routes for slow rides into Dublin (frankly, I used to wonder about the utility of short route 84 trips that ran Newcastle-Bray Station and suchlike, and wondered about the old 84A and current 184). If anything would solve the problem of routes like the 33, 65 and 84, it's turning these routes into full-time express routes (rather than rush-hour "Xpresso"—hate that name and "CitySpeed" was only marginally better) whose first stop after leaving Dublin would be Swords, Tallaght and Bray respectively.

CIE

stehyl15 wrote: »

Hi guys lets be creative here and tell me some changes on dublin bus route you like to see in the future and here are some of the changes i would like to see.

• Route 63 extend to enniskerry and not go via carrickmines retail or ballyo(g)an
• Route 84 when it was merged with the late 45 it should have gone to merrion sq. and not Blackrock without going via cherrywood or bray dart station.
• Route 46a go to the Airport like the late 746 would anyone use the aircoach then and make a route 46 going to the phoenix park.

What are your thoughts

The old 746 used to be numbered 46A as limited-frequency journeys before getting its own route number. The 46X also served the Airport. Since there is no more cross-city direct bus service between the Airport and Dun Laoghaire provided by the state-owned bus company, I have to presume that demand was low?

I'm all for dropping the alpha suffix for the current 46A in its current incarnation (Phoenix Park-Dun Laoghaire) and making it the 46.

Since the 51/B/C are gone, the Xpresso routes that remain with those numbers ought to be rationalised into route 13 (e.g. 13X Ballymun-Dunawley) and the 51D should get its own route number given that it has a unique routing shared by no other bus route. Unless of course the experiment will soon fall by the wayside and the old route 51B/C will soon return as routes 51/A...?

Routes 54A, 56A and 77A need their alpha suffixes dropped. Route 17A was never part of route 17 and needs its own unique number (which it should have had from the beginning; it should have adopted the route number 87 that was once applied to one of the replacement bus routes for the old Howth Tram, at least). Since the 45 is now gone, the 45A should also get its own un-affixed route number (and frankly, it should have had that ages ago)...and everyone have fun walking or driving to the Esplanade in Bray since you can't get a bus there anymore; same with passengers along Putland Road. Routes 40B and 40D also need their own un-affixed route numbers.

Is route 130 still successful in its meandering form where it still operates as a combined form of the old routes 30 and 44A? Don't know about anyone else, but if I were catching the bus on Blackheath Park for example and wanted to go to town, I certainly would not want to ride three kilometres east in the wrong direction on the bus before going back in the right direction down the Clontarf Road past the Bull Wall and all.

Route 66B might do with being extended into Celbridge full time. Castletown and Hewlett Packard as dead-end termini leave the potential ridership market restricted, and it would be a good option for people who work at HP to avail of a bus between there and Celbridge whether for residence or shopping or whatever, never mind a direct link between Celbridge and Leixlip in general.

I would have merged the route 65B into the 49, as well. Split the 65 into 65 Ballymore Eustace and 65A Ballyknockan.

Missing route numbers between 1 and 100 (will not include existing ones that are alpha-suffixed): 2, 3, 5, 6, 10, 12, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 30, 34, 35, 36, 48, 52, 55, 57, 58, 60, 62, 64, 71, 72, 73, 74, 80, 81, 82, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98 and 99. Rationalisation is just a word...

Cookie_Monster

Victor wrote: »

I'm not sure what the 7b does other than operate as a short-running 145 that goes to Mountjoy Square.

It gives everywhere from Shankill roundabout to Bakers corner* access to the N11 corridor, no other bus does this. That's a huge stretch. i've always maintained it'd be a valid all day route in itself, take one bus per hour off the 145, 46a and 7 and give the 7b a 20 min frequency (or 2 out of 3 for 30 mins freq), you'd see good numbers I reckon.

*It's been re-routed actually hasn't it, not familiar with where it now comes onto the n11 but point valid as far as Noggin Roundabout at least.

I'd change the likes of the 84 so it actually connects with the Luas rather than leaving you 700m odd from it.

stehyl15

CIE wrote: »

Routes 54A, 56A and 77A need their alpha suffixes dropped. Route 17A was never part of route 17 and needs its own unique number (which it should have had from the beginning; it should have adopted the route number 87 that was once applied to one of the replacement bus routes for the old Howth Tram, at least). Since the 45 is now gone, the 45A should also get its own un-affixed route number (and frankly, it should have had that ages ago)...and everyone have fun walking or driving to the Esplanade in Bray since you can't get a bus there anymore; same with passengers along Putland Road. Routes 40B and 40D also need their own un-affixed route numbers.

I disagree if routes were renumbered it would cause confusion, however i agree with what u said about the 17a but it should not have been called the 17a in the first place don't renumber busses now its too late

Bazzer2

stehyl15 wrote: »

don't renumber busses now its too late

But during Network Direct, some routes were just re-numbered, while others were left alone, despite being re-routed.

For example, the 27A was just a re-numbering of the 42B, Route 9 was just a re-numbering of the 19A, albeit with a slight extension to Charlestown. Yet, the 46A number was left alone despite being routed away from Monkstown Farm and taking over the entire northside leg of Route 10 to the Phoenix Park.

The 46E should have been re-numbered to 6.

schemingbohemia

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

It gives everywhere from Shankill roundabout to Bakers corner* access to the N11 corridor, no other bus does this. That's a huge stretch. i've always maintained it'd be a valid all day route in itself, take one bus per hour off the 145, 46a and 7 and give the 7b a 20 min frequency (or 2 out of 3 for 30 mins freq), you'd see good numbers I reckon.

*It's been re-routed actually hasn't it, not familiar with where it now comes onto the n11 but point valid as far as Noggin Roundabout at least.

I'd change the likes of the 84 so it actually connects with the Luas rather than leaving you 700m odd from it.

Having taken the 7b a few times when I've missed the 7d I'd agree with this, it has a good amount of passengers for its own exclusive stops whereas the 7d is just a 46a in disguise, I'm usually one of about 4/5 passengers who stay on the 7d after it deviates from the 46a route.

ArmaniJeanss

stehyl15 wrote: »

I disagree if routes were renumbered it would cause confusion, however i agree with what u said about the 17a but it should not have been called the 17a in the first place don't renumber busses now its too late

The 'confusion' would last for a few weeks, and then quickly everyone would be used to the new numbers.
Like when the 10 to the Phoenix Park became the 46A, UK Gold2 became Dave, and Marathon became Snickers (you won't remember that last one).

LXFlyer

Without wanting to rain on anyone's parade, there does need to be some reality brought into this. Resources are thin on the ground - there are no spare buses in the fleet. Any changes made need to be made within this parameter.

Extending the 63 to Enniskerry would mean a longer end to end running time, which would mean frequency would have to drop. Removing it from Ballyogan would remove the link between that estate and the DLRCC offices in Dub Laoghaire - something local residents had campaigned for. Why would you remove it from Carrickmines Retail Park? It is somewhere that would generate far more custom than any extension to Enniskerry, which is adequately served by the 44 and 185 as it is.

Again extending/re-routing the 59 would mean having to lower frequency. The route (like the 63) is very much a community social route - it operates the route it does for very good reasons.

The 7b and 7d provide peak hour connections for schools and commuters that wouldn't otherwise exist. Amalgamating them with the 8 would annoy far more people than necessary.

Similarly extending the 84/84a or 184 would mean frequency would have to drop on each of the routes due to the longer running times required - there are no spare buses available. You would have far too much spare capacity between Cherrywood and Bray by extending the 184 to Cherrywood.

Ignore the early morning bus in the 7d timetable - it is actually a 7 from Dalkey via Shankill and route 7 (diverting to pass Donnybrook depot).

I imagine that effectively reinstating the 746 might lead to anti-competition action from Aircoach. Why duplicate the private service?

At the end of the day any plans for change need to be realistic - i.e. they do not require additional resources and avoid unnecessary route duplication.

Most of the ideas above do not meet either of those criteria.

stehyl15

lxflyer wrote: »

Without wanting to rain on anyone's parade, there does need to be some reality brought into this. Resources are thin on the ground - there are no spare buses in the fleet. Any changes made need to be made within this parameter.

Extending the 63 to Enniskerry would mean a longer end to end running time, which would mean frequency would have to drop. Removing it from Ballyogan would remove the link between that estate and the DLRCC offices in Dub Laoghaire - something local residents had campaigned for. Why would you remove it from Carrickmines Retail Park? It is somewhere that would generate far more custom than any extension to Enniskerry, which is adequately served by the 44 and 185 as it is.

Again extending/re-routing the 59 would mean having to lower frequency. The route (like the 63) is very much a community social route - it operates the route it does for very good reasons.

The 7b and 7d provide peak hour connections for schools and commuters that wouldn't otherwise exist. Amalgamating them with the 8 would annoy far more people than necessary.

Similarly extending the 84/84a or 184 would mean frequency would have to drop on each of the routes due to the longer running times required - there are no spare buses available. You would have far too much spare capacity between Cherrywood and Bray by extending the 184 to Cherrywood.

Ignore the early morning bus in the 7d timetable - it is actually a 7 from Dalkey via Shankill and route 7 (diverting to pass Donnybrook depot).

I imagine that effectively reinstating the 746 might lead to anti-competition action from Aircoach. Why duplicate the private service?

At the end of the day any plans for change need to be realistic - i.e. they do not require additional resources and avoid unnecessary route duplication.

Most of the ideas above do not meet either of those criteria.

it could be done at a cost cutting measure by scrapping busses like the 111 like does the 111 actually have a purpose its just a short of the 7 between dun laoghaire and louglinstown and it could done with does new gts

Bazzer2

stehyl15 wrote: »

and it could done with does new gts

The new GT buses are replacements, not additions to the fleet.

LXFlyer

The fleet is reducing in size. The new buses are not additions. They are replacing older models.

The 111 requires only 1 bus. That is not even going to come close to the numbers of buses needed to operate some of the ideas above.

stehyl15

How would extending routes cost money for db like eniskerry is only a few miles from kilternan i never said increase timetables, anyway the 59's frencency could reduced as demand is low and the extra busses put on the 63

LXFlyer

The bus will need a longer journey time to go to Enniskerry than to Kilternan as it is a longer route.

Therefore you need more buses to maintain the existing frequency.

Where is the demand for this extension going to come from that is not already served by existing bus routes? The 44 and 185 serve Enniskerry adequately enough to meet demand from what I can see. It also adds duplication between Bray and Enniskerry.

I very much doubt the people who use the 59 would agree with your suggestion at cutting the frequency. It is only every 40 minutes on average.

Bazzer2

lxflyer wrote: »

The fleet is reducing in size. The new buses are not additions. They are replacing older models.

I believe I just said that. :rolleyes:

LXFlyer

Indeed - but I think it needs reinforcing!!!

Cool Mo D

The 17 and 18 should be changed around. The 17 should take over the 18s route from Crumlin to Palmerstown, and the 18 take over the 17s route from Rialto to Kimmage. This would create an inner and an outer orbital route, instead of the strange dog leg the 17 takes now. It might also be useful to start the 18 at Heuston station.

Also, the 17 route between Blackrock and Dundrum should be simplified to go Dart station - Mount Merrion Avenue before looping up the Stillorgan dual carriageway, and turning around on the UCD flyover, then turning down Fosters avenue and going straight to Dundrum via Goatstown. This would speed up the route, as well as having to skip UCD at peak times, when the internal gates are closed.

Cookie_Monster

lxflyer wrote: »

The fleet is reducing in size.

indeed it is, but for no good reason. of course they'll shout recession and reduced subvention but that just a red herring to distract from the reality of yet another arm of CIE doing its level best to get rid of customers

The_Wrecker

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

*It's been re-routed actually hasn't it, not familiar with where it now comes onto the n11 but point valid as far as Noggin Roundabout at least.

.

Stillorgan (swing left) - new road to TK - Bakers and back to normal.

patrickbrophy18

Here's a bit of food for thought:

45A Reroute: The Dun Laoghaire to Sallynoggin Road Upper stretch could be completely rerouted following the 46A as far as Bakers Corner where it would take a left and cover the entire stretch of Rochestown Avenue. From here, it would continue the course of it's route as normal. The frequency would remain the same and it would relieve the 7B of it's duty on Rochestown Avenue.

7 Reroute: The route would be extended as far as Heuston Station. Rochestown Park, Pearse Street (Sallynoggin) and Sallynoggin Road Upper would be taken off to facilitate the reroute via Sallyglen Road. The purpose of this is to make the 7 more direct. Due to the fact that it is a long haul route, it takes way too long to negotiate it's way through the Sallynoggin Environs. Further afield, the northbound route would utilize the entire Blackrock Bypass as opposed to turning into Blackrock Village which defeats the purpose of said bypass. After Ballsbridge, it would head up to St. Stephens Green via Clyde Road, Wellington Place and Leeson Street. From here, it would follow the 145 route to Heuston Station.

8 Reroute: The number 8 route would undergo a major reroute and would be turned into a cross-city bus service with an extension to Blanchardstown . The 7B and 7D services would be amalgamated into the 8. Between CBC Monkstown and Dublin City, it would travel via Monkstown Avenue, Stradbrook, Monkstown Ringroad, Stillorgan Village and continue into town via the N11. To make it attractive, it would have to be turned into an all-day service, 7 days a week.

59 Route (s): The 59 would be extended to Sandyford Luas Stop and split into two routes as any extension in it's current form would be ludicrous. Each route would have an hourly frequency and would alternate between Killiney (as the 59) and Glenageary (as the 59A). Between Dun Laoghaire and Dalkey and Rochestown Avenue and Sandyford, both routes would have a combined frequency of half-hourly. A minor benefit would be the re-instatement of a bus stop at the bottom of Johnstown Road.

111 Reroute: The 111 would be rerouted via Rochestown Park, Pearse Street (Sallynoggin) and Sallynoggin Road Upper to pick up the slack of the rerouted 7 as described above. The collective route swap of the 45A and 7 should be more than enough to enable the complete restoration of it's old frequency. In other words, the 111 would become an all-day service once again with a frequency of 20 minutely on peak and half-hourly off peak.

Check out the attached maps to see what I mean.

patrickbrophy18

Oh and here's the last attachment::D

Cookie_Monster

Speaking of the 7 on Sallyglen Road (the new road ), wasn't that always supposed to happen?

Aard

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Also, the 17 route between Blackrock and Dundrum should be simplified to go Dart station - Mount Merrion Avenue before looping up the Stillorgan dual carriageway, and turning around on the UCD flyover, then turning down Fosters avenue and going straight to Dundrum via Goatstown. This would speed up the route, as well as having to skip UCD at peak times, when the internal gates are closed.

I agree on the UCD section of the route. It was always a pain going all the way into Belfield, only to have to come back out. The bus stop at the flyover isn't incredibly far away from the main buildings so it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Wrt the Bird Avenue section, I wouldn't necessarily be in favour of changing it, but it wouldn't bother me too much if it were changed. The 17 is a great link for Clonskeagh, which is otherwise a difficult place to get to by public transport.

Changing the route to Mt Anville would make sense if the goal is to straighten it out. Mt Anville Road itself has very little going on in the way of trip generators (apart from the school itself, obviously!). Same for Taney. It would, however, increase the connectivity to Dundrum -- both the shopping centre and the Luas station.

The saved time on shortening the route here could be used to extend the 17 to Heuston Station. Imagine how popular the route could become once it linked the trains coming from the country with Dundrum SC. That alone would warrant the extention imo.

I'm not sure what goes on with the 17 route out in Crumlin, as I've never gotten it out that far. But it seems that if it turned right at the KCR and then went down Sundrive Road there'd be a huge streamlining of the route. I remember a guy I knew from Crumlin complaining about the dog-leg there, so it's probably not too popular with the locals either. The only people who'd lose out would be those around St Agnes Road.

Neewbie_noob

stehyl15 wrote: »

Hi guys lets be creative here and tell me some changes on dublin bus route you like to see in the future and here are some of the changes i would like to see.
Route 63 extend to enniskerry and not go via carrickmines retail or ballyoan Route 84 when it was merged with the late 45 it should have gone to merrion sq. and not Blackrock without going via cherrywood or bray dart station.
Route 46a go to the Airport like the late 746 would anyone use the aircoach then and make a route 46 going to the phoenix park.
What are your thoughts. Sorry for the blank space just I made an error

The 33a should increase in frequency and terminate in Swords as it does. The regular 33 should bypass Swords, as Swords is more of a permanent traffic jam than a town, it often takes the guts of 25 / 30 minutes to pass from one side of the town to another in Dublin Bus, but this route should continue to serve Santry, and every 3rd Bus should serve the airport instead of Santry. Finally, the 33X should be more frequent and have day time services too, and evening services, in both directions. That way, every route and every town is served by the 33's and travel time is slashed.

Yours
Neewbie_noob

LXFlyer

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

indeed it is, but for no good reason. of course they'll shout recession and reduced subvention but that just a red herring to distract from the reality of yet another arm of CIE doing its level best to get rid of customers

And how often do you use the bus in Dublin nowadays to make "informed" comments such as these?

Frankly that is as inane a post as another poster regularly makes here.

No one can seriously argue that changes did not need to be made, nor that there was overcapacity.

From my daily commute (which does happen to be in Dublin) I can see (using up to three different corridors) that the supply of buses is far more in line with the demand that there is for them. Using aviation speak it is definitely the case that load factors are up.

So the company should not have implemented clockface schedules, regular interval departures, simplified the network etc., as all of those are likely to lose customers.

Give me a break!

patrickbrophy18

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Speaking of the 7 on Sallyglen Road (the new road ), wasn't that always supposed to happen?

I suspect so given that Sallyglen Road is part of a long term quality bus corridor according to the map here:

http://212.147.136.137/DLRdevelopmentPlan/DevPlanViewer.aspx

If you zoom in to Sallyglen Road, you will see it marked with a broken line made entirely out of green diamonds. Under "Transport Objectives" in the "Table of Contents" pane to left, this type of broken line represents "Proposed Quality Bus-Bus Priority Route".:cool:

cameramonkey

run the 16 bus straight up the Swords Road avoiding Collins Ave, Beaumount Road etc.Takes too long in the morning.

LXFlyer

Neewbie_noob wrote: »

The 33a should increase in frequency and terminate in Swords as it does. The regular 33 should bypass Swords, as Swords is more of a permanent traffic jam than a town, it often takes the guts of 25 / 30 minutes to pass from one side of the town to another in Dublin Bus, but this route should continue to serve Santry, and every 3rd Bus should serve the airport instead of Santry. Finally, the 33X should be more frequent and have day time services too, and evening services, in both directions. That way, every route and every town is served by the 33's and travel time is slashed.

Yours
Neewbie_noob

Would it not make more sense to just extend the 33a to the Airport and leave the 33 as a standard service to/from the city via Santry, but using the Swords bypass?

LXFlyer

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Here's a bit of food for thought:

45A Reroute: The Dun Laoghaire to Sallynoggin Road Upper stretch could be completely rerouted following the 46A as far as Bakers Corner where it would take a left and cover the entire stretch of Rochestown Avenue. From here, it would continue the course of it's route as normal. The frequency would remain the same and it would relieve the 7B of it's duty on Rochestown Avenue.

7 Reroute: The route would be extended as far as Heuston Station. Rochestown Park, Pearse Street (Sallynoggin) and Sallynoggin Road Upper would be taken off to facilitate the reroute via Sallyglen Road. The purpose of this is to make the 7 more direct. Due to the fact that it is a long haul route, it takes way too long to negotiate it's way through the Sallynoggin Environs. Further afield, the northbound route would utilize the entire Blackrock Bypass as opposed to turning into Blackrock Village which defeats the purpose of said bypass. After Ballsbridge, it would head up to St. Stephens Green via Clyde Road, Wellington Place and Leeson Street. From here, it would follow the 145 route to Heuston Station.

8 Reroute: The number 8 route would undergo a major reroute and would be turned into a cross-city bus service with an extension to Blanchardstown . The 7B and 7D services would be amalgamated into the 8. Between CBC Monkstown and Dublin City, it would travel via Monkstown Avenue, Stradbrook, Monkstown Ringroad, Stillorgan Village and continue into town via the N11. To make it attractive, it would have to be turned into an all-day service, 7 days a week.

59 Route (s): The 59 would be extended to Sandyford Luas Stop and split into two routes as any extension in it's current form would be ludicrous. Each route would have an hourly frequency and would alternate between Killiney (as the 59) and Glenageary (as the 59A). Between Dun Laoghaire and Dalkey and Rochestown Avenue and Sandyford, both routes would have a combined frequency of half-hourly. A minor benefit would be the re-instatement of a bus stop at the bottom of Johnstown Road.

111 Reroute: The 111 would be rerouted via Rochestown Park, Pearse Street (Sallynoggin) and Sallynoggin Road Upper to pick up the slack of the rerouted 7 as described above. The collective route swap of the 45A and 7 should be more than enough to enable the complete restoration of it's old frequency. In other words, the 111 would become an all-day service once again with a frequency of 20 minutely on peak and half-hourly off peak.

Check out the attached maps to see what I mean.

And where are the vehicles going to come from to operate all these wonderful ideas?

patrickbrophy18

lxflyer wrote: »

So the company should not have implemented clockface schedules, regular interval departures, simplified the network etc., as all of those are likely to lose customers.

How on earth does this statement make any sense?

Clockface schedules and regular interval departures will only make a route more reliable, attractive and popular and hence, GAIN customers.

LXFlyer

Look at the post that I quoted - I was making exactly that point in my response!

That was a tinge of sarcasm in my post.

patrickbrophy18

lxflyer wrote: »

And where are the vehicles going to come from to operate all these wonderful ideas?

Unfortunately, Dublin Bus has, thus far, displayed no form of intrapreneurship (entrepreneurship within a company) in exploring new constructive ways of making money. Instead, they have been decommissioning buses as opposed to finding potential new routes for them. For this reason alone, I find their lack of vision and initiative quite alarming. Then, having the gall to turn around to the customer and charge them more for a poorer service.

For example, they lost customers and hence, money when the Luas lines opened up. Instead of sitting back and allowing their network to weaken from the transport modal switch of customers, they should have found new ways of replenishing their network. This could be done in many ways such the introduction of Luas - DART feeders where they are lacking, proper customer facing in various local councils to identify gaps in their network and much more.

Cookie_Monster

lxflyer wrote: »

And how often do you use the bus in Dublin nowadays to make "informed" comments such as these?

it'd be hard to use them living on the other side of the world...

No one can seriously argue that changes did not need to be made, nor that there was overcapacity.

And I'm not arguing that, but there were plenty of senseless changes made, there's plenty of routes that need more capacity and there are plenty of new ideas to get usage out of the fleet that should have been done, 24/7 services etc Do it properly and it'll pay for itself in fares

So the company should not have implemented clockface schedules, regular interval departures, simplified the network etc., as all of those are likely to lose customers.

All small improvements but the whole ND thing is rolling on years now, seems to be little incentive to get it done and make the improvements, rather than leaving it in the halfway house it is now. The RPTI and ticketing and fare system is still a total mess. ND hasn't led to more direct routes in many cases, 145 and 7 still have stupid detours for example and has destroyed others totally, 84 for example. Numbering is still all over the place and if the slightest thing goes wrong on the rail routes or on a major bus corridors during rush hour the system goes into meltdown due to complete lack of capacity.

Some improvements to be sure but plenty more of the same old same too. The constant debate on this forum is proof enough of that.

The Idyll Race

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Unfortunately, Dublin Bus has, thus far, displayed no form of intrapreneurship (entrepreneurship within a company) in exploring new constructive ways of making money. Instead, they have been decommissioning buses as opposed to finding potential new routes for them. For this reason alone, I find their lack of vision and initiative quite alarming. Then, having the gall to turn around to the customer and charge them more for a poorer service.

For example, they lost customers and hence, money when the Luas lines opened up. Instead of sitting back and allowing their network to weaken from the transport modal switch of customers, they should have found new ways of replenishing their network. This could be done in many ways such the introduction of Luas - DART feeders where they are lacking, proper customer facing in various local councils to identify gaps in their network and much more.

The whole issue of DART and Luas feeders seems to be a red rag to Dublin Bus. It is completely senseless that there is no real connection from Brides Glen itself when the extension to Bray, no matter how short it would be, won't happen for the foreseeable future, if ever. 700 metres to the bus stop at Cherrywood Roundabout is as good as it gets.

With DART, several routes including the 111 were specifically set up in around 1986 as feeder buses to DART with primitive integrated ticketing. The DART buses weren't implemented at the same time as the trains because of union issues and took two years to iron out, while as the years wore on the integrated bus and train tickets were quietly dropped by Dublin Bus, because of the Harneyist rubbish that the bits of the CIE empire were in competition with each other, making a bad situation impossible.

It would be right and proper if we had a properly integrated transport system that was not subject to political inference and mendacious campaigns against them by vested interests in their setting up (the anti DART and anti Luas campaigns during their construction).

CIE

The Idyll Race wrote: »

The whole issue of DART and Luas feeders seems to be a red rag to Dublin Bus. It is completely senseless that there is no real connection from Brides Glen itself when the extension to Bray, no matter how short it would be, won't happen for the foreseeable future, if ever. 700 metres to the bus stop at Cherrywood Roundabout is as good as it gets.

With DART, several routes including the 111 were specifically set up in around 1986 as feeder buses to DART with primitive integrated ticketing. The DART buses weren't implemented at the same time as the trains because of union issues and took two years to iron out, while as the years wore on the integrated bus and train tickets were quietly dropped by Dublin Bus, because of the Harneyist rubbish that the bits of the CIE empire were in competition with each other, making a bad situation impossible.

It would be right and proper if we had a properly integrated transport system that was not subject to political inference and mendacious campaigns against them by vested interests in their setting up (the anti DART and anti Luas campaigns during their construction).

Many of the old DART feeders are gone. Remember the 101? I suspect that back then, planners were hoping that short circular routes such as the 42A/B/C could be done away with and replaced by such buses (as the 6/6A was completely replaced with the 114 for example). Anyone remember the 113 as well? Wasn't able to replace the 45 (at least not until someone came up with the second version of the 145), and now the current 84 mirrors the old 113 service between Blackrock and Cabinteely. The 111 did not succeed in replacing the 7, either. Doesn't help that there are still no bus-to-bus transfer tickets available on the bus never mind from newsagents.

BTW, I forgot to throw an idea for a bus route into the mix: On the north side, there are cross-suburb buses that run on the Collins Avenue corridor and on the Coolock Lane/Oscar Traynor Road/Tonlegee Road/Kilbarrack Road (further west on Santry Avenue and Ballymun Avenue Glasnevin Avenue) corridors, but no such route on the Griffith Avenue corridor. NIMBYs? I would have thought that a "Griffith Avenue Crosstown" route (to use an Americanism) at least between Finglas and Clontarf DART (connecting Fairview, Marino, Drumcondra, Glasnevin etc.) would have been useful.

LXFlyer

The Idyll Race wrote: »

The whole issue of DART and Luas feeders seems to be a red rag to Dublin Bus. It is completely senseless that there is no real connection from Brides Glen itself when the extension to Bray, no matter how short it would be, won't happen for the foreseeable future, if ever. 700 metres to the bus stop at Cherrywood Roundabout is as good as it gets.

With DART, several routes including the 111 were specifically set up in around 1986 as feeder buses to DART with primitive integrated ticketing. The DART buses weren't implemented at the same time as the trains because of union issues and took two years to iron out, while as the years wore on the integrated bus and train tickets were quietly dropped by Dublin Bus, because of the Harneyist rubbish that the bits of the CIE empire were in competition with each other, making a bad situation impossible.

It would be right and proper if we had a properly integrated transport system that was not subject to political inference and mendacious campaigns against them by vested interests in their setting up (the anti DART and anti Luas campaigns during their construction).

What integrated tickets were withdrawn?

The 1 day, 3 day, weekly, monthly and annual bus/rail tickets are all available.

Routes 90, 102, 111 and 114 are still all DART feeder routes and you can buy a single Bus/Rail ticket for use to/from any DART station.

bk

CIE wrote: »

BTW, I forgot to throw an idea for a bus route into the mix: On the north side, there are cross-suburb buses that run on the Collins Avenue corridor and on the Coolock Lane/Oscar Traynor Road/Tonlegee Road/Kilbarrack Road (further west on Santry Avenue and Ballymun Avenue Glasnevin Avenue) corridors, but no such route on the Griffith Avenue corridor. NIMBYs? I would have thought that a "Griffith Avenue Crosstown" route (to use an Americanism) at least between Finglas and Clontarf DART (connecting Fairview, Marino, Drumcondra, Glasnevin etc.) would have been useful.

Big thumbs up to this one.

LXFlyer

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

it'd be hard to use them living on the other side of the world...


And I'm not arguing that, but there were plenty of senseless changes made, there's plenty of routes that need more capacity and there are plenty of new ideas to get usage out of the fleet that should have been done, 24/7 services etc Do it properly and it'll pay for itself in fares

All small improvements but the whole ND thing is rolling on years now, seems to be little incentive to get it done and make the improvements, rather than leaving it in the halfway house it is now. The RPTI and ticketing and fare system is still a total mess. ND hasn't led to more direct routes in many cases, 145 and 7 still have stupid detours for example and has destroyed others totally, 84 for example. Numbering is still all over the place and if the slightest thing goes wrong on the rail routes or on a major bus corridors during rush hour the system goes into meltdown due to complete lack of capacity.

Some improvements to be sure but plenty more of the same old same too. The constant debate on this forum is proof enough of that.

I don't argue with your view that there is still a lot of work to be done, but your post above was suggesting that DB were deliberately trying to lose customers which frankly I think is a ludicrous suggestion.

What are these routes that need lots more capacity?

As for new routes - someone has to pay for them. The subsidy is being cut and I don't believe that current DB fare levels would come close to making routes cost neutral unless they are operating at 100% capacity or close thereto all day long.

New routes also require the sanction of the NTA and I imagine any new route would have to go out to tender to allow other operators apply. DB is quite restricted in what it can / cannot do in this regard. It can alter/extend existing routes but as I say I suspect any brand new route would have to be tendered for as the temporary BE route 128 is currently.

I'd strongly dispute that the RTPI is a total mess. There is an issue with on street displays that don't handle service curtailments, but as a daily user of the app (and I make at least one change each way every day) I find it by and large very reliable.

The fare structure is a decision for the NTA rather than DB. Yes it does need changing - the issue is coming up with a replacement system that will be at worst revenue neutral. I tend to believe that it is a lot more complicated than simply reduce fares and numbers will suddenly increase.

As for the ND rollout, the vast majority of it is complete, so I'm struggling to figure out what other rollouts you are expecting? The Howth Road, and North County Dublin are the two main areas left for completion along with the 17 and 18.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with your comments regarding the 145. The core part of the route (City centre-Bray) is direct, what you are talking about (I assume) is the route south of Bray - that section is effectively where the route is a local service rather like the 39a in Blanchardstown.

You could argue on both sides re the 7 in Sallynoggin - there would I suspect still need to be some service through the estate, but what is the question.

The 84 had long stopped carrying large volumes to/from the city since the advent of the upgraded 145. The 84x covers the peak traffic and outside of that people can switch to/from the 145. Just because a route has been there all along doesn't mean it needs to exist for time immemorial.

Regards your capacity statement, do you plan for something that happens once in a blue moon or 95% of the time? If we carried your argument through we would be back to overcapacity on all routes again. There is a balance to be struck here.

What is undoubtedly needed in terms of the network is some form of ongoing performance review and addressing the issues (such as bunching on certain routes), holiday period schedules, but I'm not sure what major network changes are needed at this stage.

stehyl15

lxflyer wrote: »

Routes, 111

What is the point on the 111 as it serves the same areas as the 7