Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Apple vs. Samsung - The Verdict(s) are rolling in

  • 25-08-2012 03:33AM
    #1
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭


    Well, a few anyway. There have been a few court battles in Europe. One in Seoul (Samsung's HQ) where the courts ruled in favor of Samsung, stating they didn't violate any of Apple's patents and that Apple infringed on some wireless tech.

    In the UK of course, A judge ruled not only did Samsung not copy the iPad, but that Apple had to post basically an apology notice on it's UK website, stating Samsung didn't copy the iPad.

    Now for the US Court Battle, at Silicon Valley, just 10 miles from Apple HQ (did that make jury selection a nightmare? You bet!), the courts ruled on almost all counts in favor of Apple. Samsung owes Apple $1.05 Billion in damages. $1,049,343,540, to be precise. It found that many of their patents were infringed, such as bounceback (a feature that shows you whitespace when you scroll to the end of a page or document, etc) among others. Infringing devices include:
    Continuum, Droid Charge, Exhibit 4G, Galasy Ace, Prevail, S 4G, S II, Galaxy Tab, The Gem, Indulge, Infuse 4G, Mesmerie, Nexus S 4G, Replenish and Vibrant
    Captivate, continuum, droid charge, fascinate, Galaxy Prevail, Galaxy S 4G, Galaxy S II, i9100, Galaxy s 2 Tmobile, Tab, Tab 10.1, Gem, Indulge, Infuse, Nexus S 4G
    Fascinate, Galaxy S, S 4G, S 2 ATT, S2 i9100, S2 Tmobile, S 2 Epic 4G touch, Skyrocket, Showcase, Infuse 4G, Mesmerize, and Vibrant.
    Interesting to point out that their newest devices, like the SIII, the Tab 2 10.1, Tab 2 7", Galaxy Note and Galaxy Note Tab were not included on this list. Probably because with this case being so protracted they don't actually infringe in any way and samsung had time to design them as fresh, or because they are too new, litigation was never filed for those devices. The injunction hearing is filed for September 20th, and will determine which of the infringing devices will need to be taken off the market. I look forward to being sold out of my samsung products for a while - this must be how the gunshops feel when a democrat gets elected.

    You ask me though, I'm not surprised. Samsung was the manufacturer of many Apple components, and even if you look at other things like the Samsung Series 9 laptops, they're basically windows macbooks. That's all they are. Same trackpad, same lot-of-other-things.

    Whats interesting is how many countries and courts theyre suing from though and all the varying verdicts we're getting. In the UK "Samsung didn't the copy the iPad" in the US "Yeah they did".

    What will it probably mean for the future? Not tooo much. Samsung has already as I mentioned put out new devices with some fresh redesigns like the Tab 2 series and the Note, the Interface patents are easy to change and keep out of new designs. What really stings is all the money flying around, but frankly to either company these are just left and right hooks: Samsung Revenue was $247.5bn in 2011 and makes products for everything from televisions to dishwashers. Apple's revenue was $108bn. Not life-ending sums of money for these giants. Plus it's easy to ensure new devices don't infringe on "the look", Samsung for instance was the first tablet developer that I know of to install front-facing speakers on their Galaxy Tab 2. The ironic part? I think they only did it first so they would have a tablet out there Apple couldn't claim they copied.
    Samsung wrote:
    Today's verdict should not be viewed as a win for Apple, but as a loss for the American consumer. It will lead to fewer choices, less innovation, and potentially higher prices. It is unfortunate that patent law can be manipulated to give one company a monopoly over rectangles with rounded corners, or technology that is being improved every day by Samsung and other companies. Consumers have the right to choices, and they know what they are buying when they purchase Samsung products. This is not the final word in this case or in battles being waged in courts and tribunals around the world, some of which have already rejected many of Apple's claims. Samsung will continue to innovate and offer choices for the consumer.
    Apple wrote:
    We are grateful to the jury for their service and for investing the time to listen to our story and we were thrilled to be able to finally tell it. The mountain of evidence presented during the trial showed that Samsung’s copying went far deeper than even we knew. The lawsuits between Apple and Samsung were about much more than patents or money. They were about values. At Apple, we value originality and innovation and pour our lives into making the best products on earth. We make these products to delight our customers, not for our competitors to flagrantly copy. We applaud the court for finding Samsung’s behavior willful and for sending a loud and clear message that stealing isn’t right.


«134567…15

Comments

  • #2
    marshbaboon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭marshbaboon


    Nice use of paragraphs, but still...

    ...TLDR.


  • #3
    kerry4sam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,127 ✭✭✭✭kerry4sam


    marshbaboon wrote: »
    Nice use of paragraphs, but still...

    ...TLDR.

    You should read it. It does make for interesting reading.

    btw: Cheers for sharing those facts OH :)


  • #4
    marshbaboon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭marshbaboon


    I suppose I'm not the correct person to ask for an opinion on the subject, as I think both companies are the physical manifestation of the devil.


  • #5
    Kylo Ren
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,366 ✭✭✭✭Kylo Ren


    So Apple copies something. Samsung copies Apple. Apple sues Samsung?

    Also, Over a billion dollars? :O

    You could buy like, 3 Mac Book Pro's for that!


  • #6
    Corholio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,014 ✭✭✭✭Corholio


    Overheal wrote: »
    Well, a few anyway. There have been a few court battles in Europe. One in Seoul (Samsung's HQ) where the courts ruled in favor of Samsung, stating they didn't violate any of Apple's patents and that Apple infringed on some wireless tech.

    In the UK of course, A judge ruled not only did Samsung not copy the iPad, but that Apple had to post basically an apology notice on it's UK website, stating Samsung didn't copy the iPad.

    Now for Apple's home field advantage. Silicon Valley, just 10 miles from Apple HQ (did that make jury selection a nightmare? You bet!), the courts ruled on almost all counts in favor of Apple. Samsung owes Apple $1.05 Billion in damages. $1,049,343,540, to be precise. It found that many of their patents were infringed, such as bounceback (a feature that shows you whitespace when you scroll to the end of a page or document, etc) among others. Infringing devices include:
    Continuum, Droid Charge, Exhibit 4G, Galasy Ace, Prevail, S 4G, S II, Galaxy Tab, The Gem, Indulge, Infuse 4G, Mesmerie, Nexus S 4G, Replenish and Vibrant
    Captivate, continuum, droid charge, fascinate, Galaxy Prevail, Galaxy S 4G, Galaxy S II, i9100, Galaxy s 2 Tmobile, Tab, Tab 10.1, Gem, Indulge, Infuse, Nexus S 4G
    Fascinate, Galaxy S, S 4G, S 2 ATT, S2 i9100, S2 Tmobile, S 2 Epic 4G touch, Skyrocket, Showcase, Infuse 4G, Mesmerize, and Vibrant.
    Interesting to point out that their newest devices, like the SIII, the Tab 2 10.1, Tab 2 7", Galaxy Note and Galaxy Note Tab were not included on this list. Probably because with this case being so protracted they don't actually infringe in any way and samsung had time to design them as fresh, or because they are too new, litigation was never filed for those devices. The injunction hearing is filed for September 20th, and will determine which of the infringing devices will need to be taken off the market. I look forward to being sold out of my samsung products for a while - this must be how the gunshops feel when a democrat gets elected.

    You ask me though, I'm not surprised. Samsung was the manufacturer of many Apple components, and even if you look at other things like the Samsung Series 9 laptops, they're basically windows macbooks. That's all they are. Same trackpad, same lot-of-other-things.

    Whats interesting is how many countries and courts theyre suing from though and all the varying verdicts we're getting. In the UK "Samsung didn't the copy the iPad" in the US "Yeah they did".

    What will it probably mean for the future? Not tooo much. Samsung has already as I mentioned put out new devices with some fresh redesigns like the Tab 2 series and the Note, the Interface patents are easy to change and keep out of new designs. What really stings is all the money flying around, but frankly to either company these are just left and right hooks: Samsung Revenue was $247.5bn in 2011 and makes products for everything from televisions to dishwashers. Apple's revenue was $108bn. Not life-ending sums of money for these giants. Plus it's easy to ensure new devices don't infringe on "the look", Samsung for instance was the first tablet developer that I know of to install front-facing speakers on their Galaxy Tab 2. The ironic part? I think they only did it first so they would have a tablet out there Apple couldn't claim they copied.

    Nice article.

    However, the part in bold stands out like a sore trackball thumb.


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Corholio wrote: »
    Nice article.

    However, the part in bold stands out like a sore trackball thumb.
    What are you, my English professor? How's it look now 8)


  • #8
    Xavi6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,159 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Interesting read, cheers for that.

    Go Team Apple :cool:


  • #9
    entropi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,731 ✭✭✭✭entropi


    Apple can go suck on my nuts.

    Cheers for the interesting read :)


  • #10
    Sparks43
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭Sparks43


    Nice post OP

    All it means is that Apple can buy extra Ivory back scratchers :D


    Just finished reading Iwoz (Steve Wozniaks story)

    Brilliant book and he seems a decent guy not like the corporate scum that runs Apple now


  • #11
    J. Marston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,408 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    Could Apple's statement sound any more arsey?


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    TAlderson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85 ✭✭TAlderson


    This is just going to be the tip of the iceberg. Companies stockpile patents so that they can go after competition. Their competition stockpiles patents to defend themselves. I bet the next few years find a lot of these companies in court, trying to figure out who "invented" what, all the while hiking up prices for devices that they make cheap in China. Just looking for more profits, however they can.

    -Tyler


  • #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    **** Apple.. Thank God a few of the current Android phones are so good that even if production stopped entirely, they're still miles ahead of Apple for a year or two.


  • #14
    FearDark
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,425 ✭✭✭FearDark


    Try telling that to someone who owns an iPhone.

    "yeah but iPhone is the best"...

    *sigh*


  • #15
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    J. Marston wrote: »
    Could Apple's statement sound any more arsey?

    It did. Can you not see that from your retina display?


  • #16
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    Why are so many people against Apple? If you don't like their products, don't buy them! Why would you bitch about what other people have when it's not going to effect you? I never get any form of fanboyism. It's ridiculously stupid.


    Should we start arguing over which is better, PS3 or 360 now?


  • #17
    ChopShop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,797 ✭✭✭ChopShop


    1ZRed wrote: »
    1) Why are so many people against Apple? If you don't like their products, don't buy them! Why would you bitch about what other people have when it's not going to effect you? I never get any form of fanboyism. It's ridiculously stupid.


    2) Should we start arguing over which is better, PS3 or 360 now?

    1) Hubris. Patent trolling. And a small but vocal selection of people who actually believe that you coudln't send and receive email on a phone before Apple jumped on it.

    2) Welcome to 2006.


  • #18
    tails_naf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 861 ✭✭✭tails_naf


    Apple are a very aggressive company, both in business and how their products 'work'. They do have fantastic UIs, and the first iPhone was a major advancement at the time.

    However, being a 'techie' and after owning an apple product I realise how anti-consumer they are. The products are locked down - apple control the device you 'own'. They decide what apps you can and can't run, they can remotely delete any content they later deem not suitable, iTunes will delete everything off your phone if you connect it to another computer. All of these features protect Apple's business model, rather than being a benefit to the customer.

    Apple also have a history of being ruthless with suppliers and strong-arming them into exclusive contracts. Lately this is also shown by their 'sue everyone' policy - the patents are frivolous, but all they want to engage in is 'legal' ways of preventing competitiveness. It has caused a rash of counter-suing and is ending up with products being banned in different countries - so again the consumer ends up loosing.

    The good news is android phones are really good and the OS is great, so the choice to stay away from iPhones is made even easier.


  • #19
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    wernstrom! wrote: »
    1) Hubris. Patent trolling. And a small but vocal selection of people who actually believe that you coudln't send and receive email on a phone before Apple jumped on it.

    Samsung have their own patents so Apple can't get at them without punishment. Fact of the matter is it's though shit. Samsung knew they were violating patents when they were warned but continued. I know Apple holds some ridiculous patents but that doesn't mean that they are the only ones a phone can ever have. They just need to innovate passed the hurdles. They already do and they should throw patents on them if successful.
    Notice how the Galaxy S3 was so different design wise compared to the S2. They knew they needed to stop copying when this fired up last year and they did, and they didn't get an infringement on it, design wise at the very least afaik.

    Ignore the vocal idiots. Android users that keep banging on about how useless Apple products all are are just as bad. I think anyone who are closed minded and blindly loyal to a brand is ignorant. That goes for Apple or Android users.
    wernstrom! wrote: »
    2) Welcome to 2006.
    No I meant that this whole argument is as pointless as the console wars


  • #20
    Kold
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,778 ✭✭✭✭Kold


    http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb57524/lossimpson/es/images/a/a0/Mr._Zip_-_Manic_Mailman.jpg


  • #21
    OnTheCounter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 430 ✭✭OnTheCounter


    tails_naf wrote: »
    Apple are a very aggressive company, both in business and how their products 'work'. They do have fantastic UIs, and the first iPhone was a major advancement at the time.

    However, being a 'techie' and after owning an apple product I realise how anti-consumer they are. The products are locked down - apple control the device you 'own'. They decide what apps you can and can't run, they can remotely delete any content they later deem not suitable, iTunes will delete everything off your phone if you connect it to another computer. All of these features protect Apple's business model, rather than being a benefit to the customer.

    Apple also have a history of being ruthless with suppliers and strong-arming them into exclusive contracts. Lately this is also shown by their 'sue everyone' policy - the patents are frivolous, but all they want to engage in is 'legal' ways of preventing competitiveness. It has caused a rash of counter-suing and is ending up with products being banned in different countries - so again the consumer ends up loosing.

    The good news is android phones are really good and the OS is great, so the choice to stay away from iPhones is made even easier.
    hang on, if you hook your ipod/iphone up to your mates computer all your music gets deleted? Wow.


  • Advertisement
  • #22
    tails_naf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 861 ✭✭✭tails_naf


    OnTheCounter wrote: »
    hang on, if you hook your ipod/iphone up to your mates computer all your music gets deleted? Wow.

    Yep - in my case, I tried to charge my iphone from my work computer. Plugged in iphone, iTunes decided to auto-sync, and then noticed the phone was synched to another iTunes (the one from my home computer) - and promptly deleted all my music!


  • #23
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    tails_naf wrote: »
    Yep - in my case, I tried to charge my iphone from my work computer. Plugged in iphone, iTunes decided to auto-sync, and then noticed the phone was synched to another iTunes (the one from my home computer) - and promptly deleted all my music!

    It always gives you a few warnings without fail. If you want to charge it, you just plug it in and leave it. iTunes will open automatically but it won't auto sync with a different library without a notice.


  • #24
    Colmustard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭Colmustard


    They all plagiarise in that industry, that is not saying that is right, its just to be expected.

    Although Apple have been around a long time, the product that launched them out of the malaise and had them change their name from a computer company to am electronic product company was the Ipod.

    They stole many design features of the Ipod from Creative and lost out to Creative in a law suit.

    Just seen this apparently there are more Apple plagiarism cases

    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FApple_Inc._litigation&ei=2oA4UKXGBsKphAeo8IDABw&usg=AFQjCNENLwt2En4bL7Kuya-lBEKJ1r6XGQ&sig2=cu8NcHqkHWqydSVx1kE_wg

    I myself have an Samsung GalaxyS2 and I am very happy with it, so thanks Apple.


  • #25
    tails_naf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 861 ✭✭✭tails_naf


    1ZRed wrote: »
    It always gives you a few warnings without fail. If you want to charge it, you just plug it in and leave it. iTunes will open automatically but it won't auto sync with a different library without a notice.

    I don't believe so in this case - it was a good few years ago with an earlier version of iTunes, so maybe that was since 'fixed'. The workaround at the time was to turn off auto-sync before plugging in - but you found out the hard way the first time you did it! There were other things too - like for example not being able to use a song you purchased as a ring-tone - you had to RE-purchase it as a ring-tone. (you could work around that too - but just examples of Apple's model - you don't own anything and are not free to use it any way you like).


  • #26
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,589 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    tails_naf wrote: »
    I don't believe so in this case - it was a good few years ago with an earlier version of iTunes, so maybe that was since 'fixed'. The workaround at the time was to turn off auto-sync before plugging in - but you found out the hard way the first time you did it! There were other things too - like for example not being able to use a song you purchased as a ring-tone - you had to RE-purchase it as a ring-tone. (you could work around that too - but just examples of Apple's model - you don't own anything and are not free to use it any way you like).

    Surely all you had to do then was go home and re-sync with your home PC???


  • #27
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    1ZRed wrote: »
    Why are so many people against Apple? If you don't like their products, don't buy them! Why would you bitch about what other people have when it's not going to effect you? I never get any form of fanboyism. It's ridiculously stupid.


    Should we start arguing over which is better, PS3 or 360 now?

    It's not that simple.. We couldnt buy the other product if Apple had their way.


  • #28
    Tea_Bag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,979 ✭✭✭Tea_Bag


    I don't understand this legal battle. apple and Samsung don't compete in the same market. I've never met a single 'apple consumer' that was in the market for a Tablet and went "hmm, that Samsung 10.1 kinda looks like the iPad, I think I'll buy it instead"

    likewise, if you've discovered Android, there's no way in hell you'd buy apple, doesn't matter if they're the mirror image of each other. you buy what you want for the OS.

    but apple has decided that somehow Samsung is stealing their consumers, and decided to sue their BIGGEST supplier. what ever happened to the company that stays ahead of the competition wins? Apple always claims to be about innovation, but frankly, they haven't done any in a very long time. they should be proud everyone wants to look like them, it means they're doing everything right.

    maybe George Clooney should sue Brad Pitt for being a young good looking Hollywood version of him?


  • #29
    Zascar
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 12,615 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zascar


    It's a sad day and a massive loss for consumers. The entire IT industry (and many others) are based upon taking the current ideas and developing further upon them - it's just standard development getting to what the consumer wants. Apple have been doing it for years themselves. Imagine the auto industry today if all the manufacturers had patented the layout of a car etc. It's ridiculous. My hatred for Apple and their fanboys has skyrocketed.


  • #30
    PogMoThoin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,873 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    Imagine the sad place the world would be if Henry Ford sued the **** out of everyone else who put an engine on a 4 wheel carriage. The patent laws need to change, they no longer help the one thing they're supposed to protect, innovation.


  • Advertisement
  • #31
    Colmustard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭Colmustard


    Zascar wrote: »
    It's a sad day and a massive loss for consumers. The entire IT industry (and many others) are based upon taking the current ideas and developing further upon them - it's just standard development getting to what the consumer wants. Apple have been doing it for years themselves. Imagine the auto industry today if all the manufacturers had patented the layout of a car etc. It's ridiculous. My hatred for Apple and their fanboys has skyrocketed.

    In general patenting has become more of an issue lately because of the far east. Not only in Electronic, but software, brands, medicines and even whole cars. It is eroding the whole of the west's competitive base as in R and D and innovation. This is a good and successful business model for the far east but it sucks for the west.

    I could cite many examples of the value of stealing industrial secrets or plagerising but my favourite lies with the military. The US spent over 100 million in developing swingwing technology, the Russians spent less then 30 grand on stealing it recently the Chinese stealth bomber tech was required by computer hacking.

    So I am all for more controls on intellectual theft.


Advertisement
Advertisement