Apple vs. Samsung - The Verdict(s) are rolling in

Overheal

Well, a few anyway. There have been a few court battles in Europe. One in Seoul (Samsung's HQ) where the courts ruled in favor of Samsung, stating they didn't violate any of Apple's patents and that Apple infringed on some wireless tech.

In the UK of course, A judge ruled not only did Samsung not copy the iPad, but that Apple had to post basically an apology notice on it's UK website, stating Samsung didn't copy the iPad.

Now for the US Court Battle, at Silicon Valley, just 10 miles from Apple HQ (did that make jury selection a nightmare? You bet!), the courts ruled on almost all counts in favor of Apple. Samsung owes Apple $1.05 Billion in damages. $1,049,343,540, to be precise. It found that many of their patents were infringed, such as bounceback (a feature that shows you whitespace when you scroll to the end of a page or document, etc) among others. Infringing devices include:

Continuum, Droid Charge, Exhibit 4G, Galasy Ace, Prevail, S 4G, S II, Galaxy Tab, The Gem, Indulge, Infuse 4G, Mesmerie, Nexus S 4G, Replenish and Vibrant
Captivate, continuum, droid charge, fascinate, Galaxy Prevail, Galaxy S 4G, Galaxy S II, i9100, Galaxy s 2 Tmobile, Tab, Tab 10.1, Gem, Indulge, Infuse, Nexus S 4G
Fascinate, Galaxy S, S 4G, S 2 ATT, S2 i9100, S2 Tmobile, S 2 Epic 4G touch, Skyrocket, Showcase, Infuse 4G, Mesmerize, and Vibrant.

Interesting to point out that their newest devices, like the SIII, the Tab 2 10.1, Tab 2 7", Galaxy Note and Galaxy Note Tab were not included on this list. Probably because with this case being so protracted they don't actually infringe in any way and samsung had time to design them as fresh, or because they are too new, litigation was never filed for those devices. The injunction hearing is filed for September 20th, and will determine which of the infringing devices will need to be taken off the market. I look forward to being sold out of my samsung products for a while - this must be how the gunshops feel when a democrat gets elected.

You ask me though, I'm not surprised. Samsung was the manufacturer of many Apple components, and even if you look at other things like the Samsung Series 9 laptops, they're basically windows macbooks. That's all they are. Same trackpad, same lot-of-other-things.

Whats interesting is how many countries and courts theyre suing from though and all the varying verdicts we're getting. In the UK "Samsung didn't the copy the iPad" in the US "Yeah they did".

What will it probably mean for the future? Not tooo much. Samsung has already as I mentioned put out new devices with some fresh redesigns like the Tab 2 series and the Note, the Interface patents are easy to change and keep out of new designs. What really stings is all the money flying around, but frankly to either company these are just left and right hooks: Samsung Revenue was $247.5bn in 2011 and makes products for everything from televisions to dishwashers. Apple's revenue was $108bn. Not life-ending sums of money for these giants. Plus it's easy to ensure new devices don't infringe on "the look", Samsung for instance was the first tablet developer that I know of to install front-facing speakers on their Galaxy Tab 2. The ironic part? I think they only did it first so they would have a tablet out there Apple couldn't claim they copied.

Samsung wrote:

Today's verdict should not be viewed as a win for Apple, but as a loss for the American consumer. It will lead to fewer choices, less innovation, and potentially higher prices. It is unfortunate that patent law can be manipulated to give one company a monopoly over rectangles with rounded corners, or technology that is being improved every day by Samsung and other companies. Consumers have the right to choices, and they know what they are buying when they purchase Samsung products. This is not the final word in this case or in battles being waged in courts and tribunals around the world, some of which have already rejected many of Apple's claims. Samsung will continue to innovate and offer choices for the consumer.

Apple wrote:

We are grateful to the jury for their service and for investing the time to listen to our story and we were thrilled to be able to finally tell it. The mountain of evidence presented during the trial showed that Samsung’s copying went far deeper than even we knew. The lawsuits between Apple and Samsung were about much more than patents or money. They were about values. At Apple, we value originality and innovation and pour our lives into making the best products on earth. We make these products to delight our customers, not for our competitors to flagrantly copy. We applaud the court for finding Samsung’s behavior willful and for sending a loud and clear message that stealing isn’t right.

marshbaboon

Nice use of paragraphs, but still...

...TLDR.

kerry4sam

marshbaboon wrote: »

Nice use of paragraphs, but still...

...TLDR.

You should read it. It does make for interesting reading.

btw: Cheers for sharing those facts OH

marshbaboon

I suppose I'm not the correct person to ask for an opinion on the subject, as I think both companies are the physical manifestation of the devil.

Kylo Ren

So Apple copies something. Samsung copies Apple. Apple sues Samsung?

Also, Over a billion dollars? :O

You could buy like, 3 Mac Book Pro's for that!

Corholio

Overheal wrote: »

Well, a few anyway. There have been a few court battles in Europe. One in Seoul (Samsung's HQ) where the courts ruled in favor of Samsung, stating they didn't violate any of Apple's patents and that Apple infringed on some wireless tech.

In the UK of course, A judge ruled not only did Samsung not copy the iPad, but that Apple had to post basically an apology notice on it's UK website, stating Samsung didn't copy the iPad.

Now for Apple's home field advantage. Silicon Valley, just 10 miles from Apple HQ (did that make jury selection a nightmare? You bet!), the courts ruled on almost all counts in favor of Apple. Samsung owes Apple $1.05 Billion in damages. $1,049,343,540, to be precise. It found that many of their patents were infringed, such as bounceback (a feature that shows you whitespace when you scroll to the end of a page or document, etc) among others. Infringing devices include:

Continuum, Droid Charge, Exhibit 4G, Galasy Ace, Prevail, S 4G, S II, Galaxy Tab, The Gem, Indulge, Infuse 4G, Mesmerie, Nexus S 4G, Replenish and Vibrant
Captivate, continuum, droid charge, fascinate, Galaxy Prevail, Galaxy S 4G, Galaxy S II, i9100, Galaxy s 2 Tmobile, Tab, Tab 10.1, Gem, Indulge, Infuse, Nexus S 4G
Fascinate, Galaxy S, S 4G, S 2 ATT, S2 i9100, S2 Tmobile, S 2 Epic 4G touch, Skyrocket, Showcase, Infuse 4G, Mesmerize, and Vibrant.

Interesting to point out that their newest devices, like the SIII, the Tab 2 10.1, Tab 2 7", Galaxy Note and Galaxy Note Tab were not included on this list. Probably because with this case being so protracted they don't actually infringe in any way and samsung had time to design them as fresh, or because they are too new, litigation was never filed for those devices. The injunction hearing is filed for September 20th, and will determine which of the infringing devices will need to be taken off the market. I look forward to being sold out of my samsung products for a while - this must be how the gunshops feel when a democrat gets elected.

You ask me though, I'm not surprised. Samsung was the manufacturer of many Apple components, and even if you look at other things like the Samsung Series 9 laptops, they're basically windows macbooks. That's all they are. Same trackpad, same lot-of-other-things.

Whats interesting is how many countries and courts theyre suing from though and all the varying verdicts we're getting. In the UK "Samsung didn't the copy the iPad" in the US "Yeah they did".

What will it probably mean for the future? Not tooo much. Samsung has already as I mentioned put out new devices with some fresh redesigns like the Tab 2 series and the Note, the Interface patents are easy to change and keep out of new designs. What really stings is all the money flying around, but frankly to either company these are just left and right hooks: Samsung Revenue was $247.5bn in 2011 and makes products for everything from televisions to dishwashers. Apple's revenue was $108bn. Not life-ending sums of money for these giants. Plus it's easy to ensure new devices don't infringe on "the look", Samsung for instance was the first tablet developer that I know of to install front-facing speakers on their Galaxy Tab 2. The ironic part? I think they only did it first so they would have a tablet out there Apple couldn't claim they copied.

Nice article.

However, the part in bold stands out like a sore trackball thumb.

Overheal

Corholio wrote: »

Nice article.

However, the part in bold stands out like a sore trackball thumb.

What are you, my English professor? How's it look now 8)

Xavi6

Interesting read, cheers for that.

Go Team Apple :cool:

entropi

Apple can go suck on my nuts.

Cheers for the interesting read

Sparks43

Nice post OP

All it means is that Apple can buy extra Ivory back scratchers


Just finished reading Iwoz (Steve Wozniaks story)

Brilliant book and he seems a decent guy not like the corporate scum that runs Apple now

J. Marston

Could Apple's statement sound any more arsey?

TAlderson

This is just going to be the tip of the iceberg. Companies stockpile patents so that they can go after competition. Their competition stockpiles patents to defend themselves. I bet the next few years find a lot of these companies in court, trying to figure out who "invented" what, all the while hiking up prices for devices that they make cheap in China. Just looking for more profits, however they can.

-Tyler

**** Apple.. Thank God a few of the current Android phones are so good that even if production stopped entirely, they're still miles ahead of Apple for a year or two.

FearDark

Try telling that to someone who owns an iPhone.

"yeah but iPhone is the best"...

*sigh*

1ZRed

J. Marston wrote: »

Could Apple's statement sound any more arsey?

It did. Can you not see that from your retina display?

1ZRed

Why are so many people against Apple? If you don't like their products, don't buy them! Why would you bitch about what other people have when it's not going to effect you? I never get any form of fanboyism. It's ridiculously stupid.


Should we start arguing over which is better, PS3 or 360 now?

ChopShop

1ZRed wrote: »

1) Why are so many people against Apple? If you don't like their products, don't buy them! Why would you bitch about what other people have when it's not going to effect you? I never get any form of fanboyism. It's ridiculously stupid.


2) Should we start arguing over which is better, PS3 or 360 now?

1) Hubris. Patent trolling. And a small but vocal selection of people who actually believe that you coudln't send and receive email on a phone before Apple jumped on it.

2) Welcome to 2006.

tails_naf

Apple are a very aggressive company, both in business and how their products 'work'. They do have fantastic UIs, and the first iPhone was a major advancement at the time.

However, being a 'techie' and after owning an apple product I realise how anti-consumer they are. The products are locked down - apple control the device you 'own'. They decide what apps you can and can't run, they can remotely delete any content they later deem not suitable, iTunes will delete everything off your phone if you connect it to another computer. All of these features protect Apple's business model, rather than being a benefit to the customer.

Apple also have a history of being ruthless with suppliers and strong-arming them into exclusive contracts. Lately this is also shown by their 'sue everyone' policy - the patents are frivolous, but all they want to engage in is 'legal' ways of preventing competitiveness. It has caused a rash of counter-suing and is ending up with products being banned in different countries - so again the consumer ends up loosing.

The good news is android phones are really good and the OS is great, so the choice to stay away from iPhones is made even easier.

1ZRed

wernstrom! wrote: »

1) Hubris. Patent trolling. And a small but vocal selection of people who actually believe that you coudln't send and receive email on a phone before Apple jumped on it.

Samsung have their own patents so Apple can't get at them without punishment. Fact of the matter is it's though shit. Samsung knew they were violating patents when they were warned but continued. I know Apple holds some ridiculous patents but that doesn't mean that they are the only ones a phone can ever have. They just need to innovate passed the hurdles. They already do and they should throw patents on them if successful.
Notice how the Galaxy S3 was so different design wise compared to the S2. They knew they needed to stop copying when this fired up last year and they did, and they didn't get an infringement on it, design wise at the very least afaik.

Ignore the vocal idiots. Android users that keep banging on about how useless Apple products all are are just as bad. I think anyone who are closed minded and blindly loyal to a brand is ignorant. That goes for Apple or Android users.

wernstrom! wrote: »

2) Welcome to 2006.

No I meant that this whole argument is as pointless as the console wars

Kold

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb57524/lossimpson/es/images/a/a0/Mr._Zip_-_Manic_Mailman.jpg

OnTheCounter

tails_naf wrote: »

Apple are a very aggressive company, both in business and how their products 'work'. They do have fantastic UIs, and the first iPhone was a major advancement at the time.

However, being a 'techie' and after owning an apple product I realise how anti-consumer they are. The products are locked down - apple control the device you 'own'. They decide what apps you can and can't run, they can remotely delete any content they later deem not suitable, iTunes will delete everything off your phone if you connect it to another computer. All of these features protect Apple's business model, rather than being a benefit to the customer.

Apple also have a history of being ruthless with suppliers and strong-arming them into exclusive contracts. Lately this is also shown by their 'sue everyone' policy - the patents are frivolous, but all they want to engage in is 'legal' ways of preventing competitiveness. It has caused a rash of counter-suing and is ending up with products being banned in different countries - so again the consumer ends up loosing.

The good news is android phones are really good and the OS is great, so the choice to stay away from iPhones is made even easier.

hang on, if you hook your ipod/iphone up to your mates computer all your music gets deleted? Wow.

tails_naf

OnTheCounter wrote: »

hang on, if you hook your ipod/iphone up to your mates computer all your music gets deleted? Wow.

Yep - in my case, I tried to charge my iphone from my work computer. Plugged in iphone, iTunes decided to auto-sync, and then noticed the phone was synched to another iTunes (the one from my home computer) - and promptly deleted all my music!

1ZRed

tails_naf wrote: »

Yep - in my case, I tried to charge my iphone from my work computer. Plugged in iphone, iTunes decided to auto-sync, and then noticed the phone was synched to another iTunes (the one from my home computer) - and promptly deleted all my music!

It always gives you a few warnings without fail. If you want to charge it, you just plug it in and leave it. iTunes will open automatically but it won't auto sync with a different library without a notice.

Colmustard

They all plagiarise in that industry, that is not saying that is right, its just to be expected.

Although Apple have been around a long time, the product that launched them out of the malaise and had them change their name from a computer company to am electronic product company was the Ipod.

They stole many design features of the Ipod from Creative and lost out to Creative in a law suit.

Just seen this apparently there are more Apple plagiarism cases

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FApple_Inc._litigation&ei=2oA4UKXGBsKphAeo8IDABw&usg=AFQjCNENLwt2En4bL7Kuya-lBEKJ1r6XGQ&sig2=cu8NcHqkHWqydSVx1kE_wg

I myself have an Samsung GalaxyS2 and I am very happy with it, so thanks Apple.

tails_naf

1ZRed wrote: »

It always gives you a few warnings without fail. If you want to charge it, you just plug it in and leave it. iTunes will open automatically but it won't auto sync with a different library without a notice.

I don't believe so in this case - it was a good few years ago with an earlier version of iTunes, so maybe that was since 'fixed'. The workaround at the time was to turn off auto-sync before plugging in - but you found out the hard way the first time you did it! There were other things too - like for example not being able to use a song you purchased as a ring-tone - you had to RE-purchase it as a ring-tone. (you could work around that too - but just examples of Apple's model - you don't own anything and are not free to use it any way you like).

Gumbo

tails_naf wrote: »

I don't believe so in this case - it was a good few years ago with an earlier version of iTunes, so maybe that was since 'fixed'. The workaround at the time was to turn off auto-sync before plugging in - but you found out the hard way the first time you did it! There were other things too - like for example not being able to use a song you purchased as a ring-tone - you had to RE-purchase it as a ring-tone. (you could work around that too - but just examples of Apple's model - you don't own anything and are not free to use it any way you like).

Surely all you had to do then was go home and re-sync with your home PC???

1ZRed

1ZRed wrote: »

Why are so many people against Apple? If you don't like their products, don't buy them! Why would you bitch about what other people have when it's not going to effect you? I never get any form of fanboyism. It's ridiculously stupid.


Should we start arguing over which is better, PS3 or 360 now?

It's not that simple.. We couldnt buy the other product if Apple had their way.

Tea_Bag

I don't understand this legal battle. apple and Samsung don't compete in the same market. I've never met a single 'apple consumer' that was in the market for a Tablet and went "hmm, that Samsung 10.1 kinda looks like the iPad, I think I'll buy it instead"

likewise, if you've discovered Android, there's no way in hell you'd buy apple, doesn't matter if they're the mirror image of each other. you buy what you want for the OS.

but apple has decided that somehow Samsung is stealing their consumers, and decided to sue their BIGGEST supplier. what ever happened to the company that stays ahead of the competition wins? Apple always claims to be about innovation, but frankly, they haven't done any in a very long time. they should be proud everyone wants to look like them, it means they're doing everything right.

maybe George Clooney should sue Brad Pitt for being a young good looking Hollywood version of him?

Zascar

It's a sad day and a massive loss for consumers. The entire IT industry (and many others) are based upon taking the current ideas and developing further upon them - it's just standard development getting to what the consumer wants. Apple have been doing it for years themselves. Imagine the auto industry today if all the manufacturers had patented the layout of a car etc. It's ridiculous. My hatred for Apple and their fanboys has skyrocketed.

PogMoThoin

Imagine the sad place the world would be if Henry Ford sued the **** out of everyone else who put an engine on a 4 wheel carriage. The patent laws need to change, they no longer help the one thing they're supposed to protect, innovation.

Colmustard

Zascar wrote: »

It's a sad day and a massive loss for consumers. The entire IT industry (and many others) are based upon taking the current ideas and developing further upon them - it's just standard development getting to what the consumer wants. Apple have been doing it for years themselves. Imagine the auto industry today if all the manufacturers had patented the layout of a car etc. It's ridiculous. My hatred for Apple and their fanboys has skyrocketed.

In general patenting has become more of an issue lately because of the far east. Not only in Electronic, but software, brands, medicines and even whole cars. It is eroding the whole of the west's competitive base as in R and D and innovation. This is a good and successful business model for the far east but it sucks for the west.

I could cite many examples of the value of stealing industrial secrets or plagerising but my favourite lies with the military. The US spent over 100 million in developing swingwing technology, the Russians spent less then 30 grand on stealing it recently the Chinese stealth bomber tech was required by computer hacking.

So I am all for more controls on intellectual theft.

Ghandee

This may be one case where the term 'no publicity like bad publicity' may not be true.

This will surely highlight to a lot of people the very fact that not only are apples products more expensive than their competitors, but also, the products are much tecnologically inferior.

It also could lead to Samsung products been extremely sought over in the US, giving their products a real 'cool to own one' staus.

Also, bit coincidental they lost a multitude of cases against samsung in other countries, but win this one at silicone valley (mere miles from Apples headquarters)

I do not hate Apple, but I do think they've become increasingly greedy these last few years in particular, but I recognise they do create some beautiful products (even though in many cases they simply 'improve' someone elses design) tablets are not new, a touch screen phone was not new.

Can they not just all get along?


typed on my Samsung Galaxy S III...........:pac:

fergiesfolly

Nokia ftw

ShadowHearth

FearDark wrote: »

Try telling that to someone who owns an iPhone.

"yeah but iPhone is the best"...

*sigh*

I own 3GS and I can't wait to jump on android ship this year.

I am really happy to see Samsung making such amazing phones.

El Weirdo

In my experience, the more tech savvy of my acquaintances would be Android owners whilst anyone I know with an iPhone really hasn't got a clue about tech and would really only own it because they believe it to be the cutting edge of technology.

Going slightly off-topic but staying on the patent theme - This American Life had a great podcast on the subject of patents a while back. Well worth a listen.

KenSwee

Tea_Bag wrote: »

I don't understand this legal battle. apple and Samsung don't compete in the same market. I've never met a single 'apple consumer' that was in the market for a Tablet and went "hmm, that Samsung 10.1 kinda looks like the iPad, I think I'll buy it instead"

likewise, if you've discovered Android, there's no way in hell you'd buy apple, doesn't matter if they're the mirror image of each other. you buy what you want for the OS.

but apple has decided that somehow Samsung is stealing their consumers, and decided to sue their BIGGEST supplier. what ever happened to the company that stays ahead of the competition wins? Apple always claims to be about innovation, but frankly, they haven't done any in a very long time. they should be proud everyone wants to look like them, it means they're doing everything right.

maybe George Clooney should sue Brad Pitt for being a young good looking Hollywood version of him?

Apple are IBM (1970s) now.

up for anything

Overheal wrote: »

I look forward to being sold out of my samsung products for a while - this must be how the gunshops feel when a democrat gets elected.

:D Thanks for the laugh. :pac:

KenSwee

Zascar wrote: »

It's a sad day and a massive loss for consumers. The entire IT industry (and many others) are based upon taking the current ideas and developing further upon them - it's just standard development getting to what the consumer wants. Apple have been doing it for years themselves. Imagine the auto industry today if all the manufacturers had patented the layout of a car etc. It's ridiculous. My hatred for Apple and their fanboys has skyrocketed.

I have no love for Samsung. I've had a number of their products catastrophically fail on me. But there is a much bigger issue here as stated above. Apple's action in the long run will be their demise. Just look at the history of business, especially fast moving ones like the auto industry and technology. If you fail to compete through innovation and spend most of your time and financial resources fighting other companies in the courts, then you will be left behind. There is always some other smart kid around the block.

Apple shouldn't have any issue with other companies coping their ideas. Great companies prosper in the long run as customers will be loyal if they still provide the best customer service, great products and up to date ideas. Look at Ford as the above poster stated or Coca Cola, Red Bull, Phillips and Levis. All these companies got great market exposure though copied products. They produced the best and people prefer that in the long run.

I am looking forward to Apple having a go at Android and Google. I'll be getting my popcorn out for that if it happens.

Corholio

Overheal wrote: »

What are you, my English professor? How's it look now 8)

What!? I wasn't criticising you at all. Just saying that part was a big reason for the judgement.

o1s1n

Once I had an Apple fan corner me and shout me down after making that Steve Jobs/Android joke. She then went on a tirade right in my face as to why Apple products are the best.

What a ****ing bitch. Sums up many Apple users for me. It's like some weird cult. They're only electronics people!

Gumbo

o1s1n wrote: »

Once I had an Apple fan corner me and shout me down after making that Steve Jobs/Android joke. She then went on a tirade right in my face as to why Apple products are the best.

What a ****ing bitch. Sums up many Apple users for me. It's like some weird cult. They're only electronics people!

that happened to me before by some bitch with one of those galaxy phones :eek:
i took out my 6300 and laughed at her and walked away.

Kinda sums up those galaxy thingy owners.

o1s1n

I did say 'many' Apple product users and not 'all' apple product users :P

kerry4sam

kerry4sam wrote: »

You should read it. It does make for interesting reading.

btw: Cheers for sharing those facts OH

Waaaiit.. you and Overheal are an item?

Was there something recently where South Korea actually banned the sale of either product there?

Gumbo

o1s1n wrote: »

I did say 'many' Apple product users and not 'all' apple product users :P

thats why i said "kinda" too
It all gets a bit boring this Apple V Android thing, i dont usually pay attention to it tbh, and also, ive never encountered much of the bitterness that you see on these forums in the real world either. Thank god for the real world

Casillas

I thought 1billion was a lot until I saw the 2011 profit of 247billion. That is just insane wealth!

Cienciano

I'd get a mac book if I won the lotto. Don't see the attraction at all with iphone
Cool story bro

Mysteriouschic

I think are great quality Apple products and although the products are highly priced you get what you pay for and it's worth it. I've the macbook pro, itouch. I've had other laptops and the mac was by far the best one . I still think they're are other good products available . Samsung do have really good products although I'm not keen on the Samsung/iphones I prefer the Nokia's or Blackberry's tbh.

CavanCrew

Apple acccused samsung of copying them, but then samsung turned around and were like well NO we didnt because YOU (apple) copied microsoft.

so they both basically copied microsoft who brought it out in 2002 and a guy that used to work for microsoft showed it to apple, google it, it shows the paper ideas from microsoft.

Still apple are lazy ****es, samsung all the way.

Oranage2

Id say Samsung will bring different phones to the American market. I really dislike apple and iphones.

mikemac1

Casillas wrote: »

I thought 1billion was a lot until I saw the 2011 profit of 247billion. That is just insane wealth!

That was sales

Profit would be a fraction of that

MagicMarker

I have a Macbook and HTC Desire.

Does this make me some kind of bi-technological-transgender or something? I feel so confused!!!!