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what can i do? keep receiving bills to my address for unknown persons

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭Merch


    Faolchu wrote: »
    Exactly when they ask your name say joe mcfluffynipples and then they can't use the excuse

    I tried :)
    seavill wrote: »
    re post as not sure did you miss my two suggestions a few posts earlier

    someone mentioned one might be an offence but who's to know whether you actually do it or not

    Secondly you have two choices seen as you have explained and re explained that you will not give them your name
    - ignore the letters and just put them in the bin, they have nothing to do with you just treat them like all that other **** we get in the door daily from tesco etc. I don't see why this is not possible. I get at least 2 pieces of junk every day which has to go in the bin just add in these letters it won't kill you. the bills have nothing to do with you so no one can come after you no matter what.
    - mark return to sender on every single one they will get tired of receiving them back every time and will eventually do something about it again not your problem they dont have your name so no one will come after you whatever address they have.

    I guess I was trying to do the right thing, tell them what i suspected was a fraud/have no association between my address and the unpaid debts of someone else, to which i was accused by them of having mislaid/disposed of some paperwork with my details on it, if that was the case, they'd surely be using my name.
    I think that looks like the only remaining option, bit unfortunate.

    I'd hazard a guess its tesco information though and not tesco bank with demands for thousands of euro.
    I'm suprised the company have such a bureaucratic process for dealing with something that has caused them to go from being owed hundreds to a hell of a lot more.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭Grolschevik


    Merch wrote: »
    As I said, they wanted me to go the gardai, they then waited weeks to obtain information they wanted, the Gardai told me the company simply could report this themselves but they seem too lazy to do that. they are bombarding me with post,a number of bills to differant names, decline to give me information (which I can understand) but then demand I give them my details.
    If I really was one of the account holders and a scam artist, why oh why would I give them accurate information? and what use would it be to them to have my name anyway?? or any name, they have also lied to me saying they would stop sending the post if I reported the issue now saying an investigation will have to be carried out (thats understandable) but different to what I was previously told.
    They simply dont have a process to deal with the issue that has come up and if they are losing money on a large number of accounts like this, I cant see how they could be in business, maybe they have customers money to burn?? they certainly seem to have a bit of a bad reputation for customer service.
    .

    Why do you care about this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭Merch


    Why do you care about this?

    see post 32


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭seavill


    Merch wrote: »
    I tried :)



    I guess I was trying to do the right thing, tell them what i suspected was a fraud/have no association between my address and the unpaid debts of someone else, to which i was accused by them of having mislaid/disposed of some paperwork with my details on it, if that was the case, they'd surely be using my name.
    I think that looks like the only remaining option, bit unfortunate.

    I'd hazard a guess its tesco information though and not tesco bank with demands for thousands of euro.
    I'm suprised the company have such a bureaucratic process for dealing with something that has caused them to go from being owed hundreds to a hell of a lot more.

    Yes that's all well and good the first or second time but they clearly don't care so I don't know why you care so much, If they accepted your help the first time fair enough but why bother continuing when it is getting you absolutely no where and you are clearly very wound up about it.

    The second point highlighted above - who cares what it is, its not for you, they don't seem too bothered so what does it matter what it is or whos its for or for how much, its nothing to do with you so forget about it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭Merch


    seavill wrote: »
    Yes that's all well and good the first or second time but they clearly don't care so I don't know why you care so much, If they accepted your help the first time fair enough but why bother continuing when it is getting you absolutely no where and you are clearly very wound up about it.

    The second point highlighted above - who cares what it is, its not for you, they don't seem too bothered so what does it matter what it is or whos its for or for how much, its nothing to do with you so forget about it.

    Thats all true I suppose, I guess I'm persistant, or stubborn or maybe ignorant

    I like to see a job through to the end, even the bitter end :)

    I was pissed about it, confounded by their attitude, but you're right
    ahh screw it :)
    Now, what i need to do is go and scam a phone off them, that'll cheer me up, it seems like it could be easy to do
    especially as they are quite slow to catch on,
    Now if someone will just give me a name :D

    I cant use hesus cristos or fluffymcnipples though


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭Merch




    This was my problem, I think it says it all, Homer I should not have forsaken thou


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭Merch


    I feel vindicated, to my detractors nah nah na na na
    Seriously, this ties in with my experience very closely that Im suprised it didnt come up before.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0910/emobile-meteor-guilty-of-data-legislation-breach.html

    Meteor and eMobile plead guilty to data legislation breaches

    Updated: 22:21, Monday, 10 September 2012


    inShare21


    Two telecoms companies have pleaded guilty to multiple breaches of data protection legislation at the Dublin District Court.


    Two laptops were stolen containing customer's personal data


    Play

    One News: Meteor and eMobile plead guilty to data protection breaches

    Play

    News At One: Will Goodbody reports on a data protection breach by two telecoms companies

    They have been ordered to pay a total of €30,000 to two charities.
    The charges follow the theft of two unencrypted laptops from the office of Eircom Ltd, trading as eMobile, and Meteor Mobile Communications Ltd, trading as Meteor, in Parkwest in Dublin late in 2011 or early in 2012.
    The laptops contained personal and financial information of customers. Both companies are part of the Eircom group.
    They were charged with failing to protect the personal data held on the laptops, failing to notify the Data Protection Commission of this personal data breach without undue delay and failure to notify the affected individuals without delay.
    It is the first prosecution taken with regard to the loss of personal data on an unencrypted laptop.
    Both companies pleaded guilty to the charges before Dublin District Court this morning and received the benefit of the Probation Act, provided they make the donation to charity.
    The court heard that the theft of the two password-protected but unencrypted computers took place sometime between 28 December 2011 and 2 January 2012 from Eircom's business premises at Parkwest in Dublin.
    The laptops were discovered missing on 3 January and the matter reported to gardaí the following day.
    The Office of the Data Protection Commissioner says all such breaches should be reported to its office within two working days.
    However, the court was told that in this instance it was only notified of the breach 30 days after the laptops were found to be missing.
    In total, the laptops contained details of 3,944 Meteor customers and 6,295 eMobile customers.
    In the case of eMobile, the data included customer application forms, including passport details, utility bills, driving licence details, financial statements and credit and debit card information for 142 of the customers.
    eMobile only began informing customers 38 days after the laptops were reported stolen, but it took up to 77 days to inform some customers.
    The details of the remaining eMobile customers included names, addresses, telephone numbers and account details.
    The Meteor data also contained application form information such as passport and driving licence details, and financial statements of 1,244 customers out of a total of 3,944 customers who were listed on the laptops.
    Meteor began informing customers 38 days after the laptops were stolen, but in some cases it took up 73 days before everyone was informed.
    Apologising for what had happened, Eircom's solicitor told the court that the personal data should not have been on the laptops, and the computers should have been encrypted.
    The court was told that Eircom Group had in excess of 3,100 encrypted laptops prior to this data breach. Following this breach, the group identified approximately 160 laptops that were not encrypted.
    However, the court heard that all unencrypted laptops have since been encrypted.
    Eircom said it had difficulty identifying what exactly had been on the laptops, and it was this that had led to the delay in notifying the ODPC and the customers.
    Judge John O'Neill said the procedures were there to be followed, but in this case they had not.
    He said there had so far been no loss to customers in this instance, but it was not guaranteed that those affected would not suffer loss in the future.
    Judge O'Neill said both companies should have notified the Data Protection Commission without delay, but he he also noted both had come in with their hands up and had not attempted to minimise their part in these offences.
    He said under the circumstances, a payment to charity reflecting the maximum fines available under the legislation, was the most appropriate solution.
    The judge gave the companies the benefit of the Probation Act, provided they pay a total of €30,000 to the Laura Lynn Foundation and Pieta House by the end of the month.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Tom Young


    How does this tie with incorrect addressing?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭Merch


    well,the company in question told me utility bills of some description of my address were used to create these accounts so i dont think its a matter of incorrect addressing, the accounts were set up using my address, it is not merely a typo error.
    At the least it shows e-mobile/meteor are careless with personal information and do not take timely action to rectify such problems, something i experienced with them when i informed them of the issue, which they then declined to believe.

    All the while they were aware they had disclosed personal information and at the same time had accused me of doing the same.

    I was once a customer of meteor many years ago, so its possible my information was disclosed.

    At best they are utter jackasses at worst it seems negligent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Tom Young


    So, it doesn't tie at all with the losing of a laptop/data, as I expected.

    Criminal Negligence is a fairly serious accusation to make about anyone, or company, are we sure that such an allegation is correct?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭Procrastastudy


    OT but honest question - don't you have to be criminally negligent of something? People seem to bandy around the term as if being negligent simpliciter can be a crime - I don't see how it could be but I'm happy to be corrected.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Tom Young


    There are two types of negligence relevant to the criminal law.

    1. Ordinary or simple negligence and is most often applied in the context of motor vehicle offences, e.g., S.52 of the RTA 1961 (Amended by S.13 RTA 2004);

    2. Gross negligence and arises in the context of the offence of manslaughter.

    When considering if an accused acted negligently the tribunal/trier of fact would as two questions (generally):

    1. would a reasonable person have been aware of the risks in question; and
    2. knowing those risks would the reasonable person have run them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Merch wrote: »
    well,the company in question told me utility bills of some description of my address were used to create these accounts so i dont think its a matter of incorrect addressing, the accounts were set up using my address, it is not merely a typo error.
    At the least it shows e-mobile/meteor are careless with personal information and do not take timely action to rectify such problems, something i experienced with them when i informed them of the issue, which they then declined to believe.

    All the while they were aware they had disclosed personal information and at the same time had accused me of doing the same.

    I was once a customer of meteor many years ago, so its possible my information was disclosed.

    At best they are utter jackasses at worst it seems criminally negligent.

    No, at the least it shows that someone has access to your letterbox other than you. Because otherwise they wouldn't be able to get the utility bills that were sent to you.

    The fact remains op that if you continue to remain anonymous you will likely get nowhere with them nor will you be able to go any official route. The reason being that they have no way of knowing you are not the person named on the bill. If you keep trying to make up false names and pretending to be other people you are opening yourself to criminal charges.

    The two options open to you are
    1) Use your name like a normal person and sort the problem out in very little time.
    2) Keep ignoring the letters until the debt collectors come and try reason with them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭Merch


    Tom Young wrote: »
    So, it doesn't tie at all with the losing of a laptop/data, as I expected.

    Criminal Negligence is a fairly serious accusation to make about anyone, or company, are we sure that such an allegation is correct?

    I meant it the manner that is seriously negligent, I dont know what the technically correct definition of criminally negligent is so I removed criminal, but they were fined for data legistlation breaches, I assumed that was an offence given they were fined

    1. would a reasonable person have been aware of the risks in question; and
    2. knowing those risks would the reasonable person have run them.

    That organisation seems to have failed on both counts so it seems they were/are negligent.
    No, at the least it shows that someone has access to your letterbox other than you. Because otherwise they wouldn't be able to get the utility bills that were sent to you.

    The fact remains op that if you continue to remain anonymous you will likely get nowhere with them nor will you be able to go any official route. The reason being that they have no way of knowing you are not the person named on the bill. If you keep trying to make up false names and pretending to be other people you are opening yourself to criminal charges.

    The two options open to you are
    1) Use your name like a normal person and sort the problem out in very little time.
    2) Keep ignoring the letters until the debt collectors come and try reason with them.

    No one has access to my letterbox except me, one other person and the postman, the latter merely the outside of the letterbox.
    As I am here when post arrives, I know mail isnt being intercepted.I gave a false name as a joke right in the middle of the conversation, it was santa claus or something like that, I dont see how me giving my name allows them to give out any information themselves as they simply would never know if it is true.
    Also I posted the link to rte as it shows they are carelessly negligent when dealing with customers personal information, why would I have given my details to someone I knew was already frivilous about that, only to see it proved in the rte article?
    Anyway, I was posting it as vindication that I was proved correct about them rather than anything else.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭monkeypants


    MagicSean wrote: »
    1) Use your name like a normal person and sort the problem out in very little time.
    I'd be wary of this one. The next thing, you'll be receiving the same bills, only your name will be on them. Now it's definitely your problem.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    I'd be wary of this one. The next thing, you'll be receiving the same bills, only your name will be on them. Now it's definitely your problem.

    What a ridiculous statement to make.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭krd


    Beano wrote: »
    What a ridiculous statement to make.


    No, it's not a ridiculous statement to make. When I was fixing billing problems for people, it was a regular occurrence. Customers at similar addresses can get mixed up. And it happens that one John Smitnh gets the bill for another John Smith. There can be glitches where people have never had a service get billed.

    And identity theft happens. I knew some very bad people, who unfortunately knew me, they set up a bord gais account in my name, they also set up a phone account in another friends name. They ran up huge bills on both - with no intention of paying. To create these accounts a lot of the time you require no proof of identity. You can just make a phone call and pretend to be whoever you want to be.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    it is a ridiculous thing to say. Are you saying that if the OP goes back to the company that is sending the bill and tell them that the person they are sending the bill to does not live at the address that they will turn around and bill the OP instead? That is ridiculous. This is nothing to do with identity theft. The Op's identity has not been stolen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭monkeypants


    Beano wrote: »
    What a ridiculous statement to make.
    I understand that it may sound that way at first, but it happened to me. Was able to get out of it finally by threatening legal action.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    I understand that it may sound that way at first, but it happened to me. Was able to get out of it finally by threatening legal action.

    Well if it happened to you thats fair enough. But it does sound ridiculous. :)
    That sounds like a cowboy chancing his arm.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭krd


    Beano wrote: »
    it is a ridiculous thing to say. Are you saying that if the OP goes back to the company that is sending the bill and tell them that the person they are sending the bill to does not live at the address that they will turn around and bill the OP instead? That is ridiculous.

    I can tell you, from my personal experience of actually working behind the scenes in customer service, not only are the agents thick and sleazy. The stupidity and sleaziness goes all the way to the top.

    I'll give you an example. I had a job where I fixed badly mangled accounts. I get a call from a woman in a block of office units. She has a bill, it has a name she's never heard of, but the bill is in her company name, but the unit is different to hers. The people at the other unit know nothing about it. I look at the details of the account and it has all the hallmarks of a sales agent doing a bogus sale to collect commission (it goes on all the time - "great" sales people are natural b******ters - give them a job and see the magic happen).

    Because it's over a grand I have to call my line managers manager. I call her, and tell her the story, I need permission to close the account and write it off. She then suggests something jaw droppingly stupid. She suggests I put the woman's correct name and unit in the account details, and tell the woman to find out who's been using the service and collect money for us.

    I've literally had to deal with thousands of cases of crap. I would put nothing past any of the service providers.

    And some are really scummy. If you call them up to make an enquiry, if the agent is earning a commission, there's a good chance if you give them your name and address, they'll sign you up for some junk. And a lot of the time they're not worried about being sacked - they're usually good pals with their scummy manager. Sometimes the manager is on a commission too. They're may even be a nod and a wink from higher up to do this as much as possible.
    This is nothing to do with identity theft. The Op's identity has not been stolen.

    No, but his address may become credit black listed, and then he may become credit black listed for having lived at that address. It happens to a lot of people in England. It could stop you from getting a loan or a mortgage.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    krd wrote: »
    ...

    No, but his address may become credit black listed, and then he may become credit black listed for having lived at that address. It happens to a lot of people in England. It could stop you from getting a loan or a mortgage.

    Only a financial instituition can affect your credit rating in ireland. it requires a court judgement before a debt can affect your credit rating. We dont have the same broken system that the english do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,734 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    krd wrote: »
    No, but his address may become credit black listed, and then he may become credit black listed for having lived at that address. It happens to a lot of people in England. It could stop you from getting a loan or a mortgage.

    Then you'd think that the OP would sort it out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭Merch


    Victor wrote: »
    Then you'd think that the OP would sort it out.

    I have been trying to sort it out, but i should never have been inconvenienced with any of it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭Milk & Honey


    I have found return to sender the best way of dealing with this kind of thing. It is costing the company money to process the returned letters. They soon get fed up of having their post coming straight back to them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭Diddler1977


    Merch wrote: »
    I did what I considered the responsible thing, which was to inform the service providers that there was an issue, ie either the address was incorrect or the accounts were fraudulent.

    I dont want to merely just put "return to sender" as that doesnt fix the problem. As they were bombarding me at one stage with up to 3 bills in slightly different variations (name and address). They persist in spamming me, I receive enough genuine SPAM and it seems this could leave an open for someone else to use these account details to open further accounts, which I believe they already did initially (due to the number of accounts)

    You see sme of the letters have gotten opened, its my letter box you see, it snags them so they get ripped, I must fix that, but it was helpful in that it showed me what was going on.

    They claim to be unable to change the address on the account without the account holders permission but it seems they are aware the bills are unpaid as a different type of letter arrived demanding the outstanding money, this letter also got mangled in the letter box so I contacted the organisation that sent that and they just said, send us a written letter stating that the person named on the bills does not reside at the address.

    The service provider declined to deal with me initially as I told them I am not the account holder (fair enough), and eventually it was suggested by them that the customer was contacted and that the address was confirmed, now unless they are living in my home but in another dimension or some other sci fi alter reality, then that simply is not possible. I suggested to them that the bill amounts seemed to be unpaid and increasing, that they should try contacting their customer and perhaps conferring with their counter parts in the companies where the evidence of accounts at this address was provided from, to see if they were legitimate account numbers.

    but anyway I noticed the amounts kept stacking up, yet they left the accounts open, I didnt want any association with the accounts and my home address, I declined to give them my name as I have no contract with them.

    I was wondering would a solicitors letter help and how much would that cost. This could? act as an intermediary which would allow me to keep my name private from them but allow them to have confirmed proof I am not their man or men as is the case.


    They are not spamming YOU. These letters are not for you. You are not entitled to read someone else's mail. Mark them "Return to sender - not known at this address" and put them back in the mail box.


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