what can i do? keep receiving bills to my address for unknown persons

Merch

I keep receiving bills for mobile phone accounts for people that dont live at my address.
This has occurred since one half of the company came into business, nearly two years ago I think.

I phoned them many times from the very start of this issue to inform them that there must be a billing address error OR that its is possibly a fraud, but they refuse to deal with me because I decline to give them my name (Im not their customer, I have not signed any contract with them), they continued to send the bills. I dont want any association with these debts and my address.

I have requested numerous times verbally that they stop sending the bills to my address, I didnt always have the time to follow up and i found the website catered to customers (which I am not) ie chat support to get info, I found it difficult to locate phone numbers or any address to send a registered letter formally requesting they stop sending me their spam.

Do I need to get a solicitors letter to do this? I dont have much spare money, how much will this cost? what are my other options?

PS I tried A,COMREG and B,Data Protection Commisioners but they say its outside their remit as I am A, Not a customer and B, Its not my name being misused, just my address.

MagicSean

You're not really going to get anywhere if you insist on remaining anonymous with them.

The Big Red Button

If you're not willing to give them the details they need in order to address this problem, why not just ignore the bills?

Joey the lips

Just right "Return to sender - Not at this address"

mitosis

Mark the unopened envelopes GONE AWAY or UNKNOWN AT THIS ADDRESS and throw them in a post box.

Advise the post delivery office that these people are gone away.

That's pretty much all you can do. They are not yours so you have no need to get fretted over them.

Merch

I did what I considered the responsible thing, which was to inform the service providers that there was an issue, ie either the address was incorrect or the accounts were fraudulent.

I dont want to merely just put "return to sender" as that doesnt fix the problem. As they were bombarding me at one stage with up to 3 bills in slightly different variations (name and address). They persist in spamming me, I receive enough genuine SPAM and it seems this could leave an open for someone else to use these account details to open further accounts, which I believe they already did initially (due to the number of accounts)

You see sme of the letters have gotten opened, its my letter box you see, it snags them so they get ripped, I must fix that, but it was helpful in that it showed me what was going on.

They claim to be unable to change the address on the account without the account holders permission but it seems they are aware the bills are unpaid as a different type of letter arrived demanding the outstanding money, this letter also got mangled in the letter box so I contacted the organisation that sent that and they just said, send us a written letter stating that the person named on the bills does not reside at the address.

The service provider declined to deal with me initially as I told them I am not the account holder (fair enough), and eventually it was suggested by them that the customer was contacted and that the address was confirmed, now unless they are living in my home but in another dimension or some other sci fi alter reality, then that simply is not possible. I suggested to them that the bill amounts seemed to be unpaid and increasing, that they should try contacting their customer and perhaps conferring with their counter parts in the companies where the evidence of accounts at this address was provided from, to see if they were legitimate account numbers.

but anyway I noticed the amounts kept stacking up, yet they left the accounts open, I didnt want any association with the accounts and my home address, I declined to give them my name as I have no contract with them.

I was wondering would a solicitors letter help and how much would that cost. This could? act as an intermediary which would allow me to keep my name private from them but allow them to have confirmed proof I am not their man or men as is the case.

Merch

mitosis wrote: »

Mark the unopened envelopes GONE AWAY or UNKNOWN AT THIS ADDRESS and throw them in a post box.

Advise the post delivery office that these people are gone away.

That's pretty much all you can do. They are not yours so you have no need to get fretted over them.

I appreciate the replies,
they were never at this address though.

I was able to inform a different company (another mobile phone operator) that the person was not at my address and never was and they simply stopped sending the bills, I think they were aware there was a fraud going on and did something about it.
This other company ( a pair of connected companies that i thought were different initially) simply refuses to accept that the accounts they provided were some means to scam them, thats how it appears to me? unless the perpetrator is living in the spaces between my walls and intercepting my gas/elec bills, I dont understand how set up the accounts as I shred everything religiously.
So they obviously used their own counterfeit paperwork with counterfeit account numbers?
anyway

Solicitors letter? how much? might it do the trick?
Its a bit of a joke to accept that the bills would arrive for ever more in my case in a house I have owned from new
or
in the case of a previously owned home, where the previous occupants have moved on.

Victor

Merch wrote: »

but anyway I noticed the amounts kept stacking up

Stop reading other peoples' post. Doing so is an offence. Send it back as detailed above.

Why don't want to give the phone companies your name, do you have the same or similar name? Are you related to the phone user?

Merch

Victor wrote: »

Stop reading other peoples' post. Doing so is an offence. Send it back as detailed above.

Why don't want to give the phone companies your name, do you have the same or similar name? Are you related to the phone user?

As i said, its the letterbox that opens them I dont go around the (my) house with my eyes closed.
I dont want to give them my name as I have no contract with them, I tried to inform them of the issue, it seems to me they have been defrauded and they allowed the actual user of the account to continue using their service.

the thing is, its my address thats being used, had same problem with another company at same time, rang them, they didnt give me the 3rd degree or require my details, I think they investigated the information supplied to them and knew it to be fraudulent, all I had to do was ring them and they stopped posting bills to my address, yet this other crowd claims they cant stop posting to the house despite me having no association with them.

Names used are definitely not similar! and not related, unless I have some distant relatives that live on the Black Sea coast, who have come to visit but never told me about their arrival or the usage of my gas and elec bills. As I shred everything, I'll hazard a guess the person/s has typed up their own documents somehow and scammed this company.

matrim

Merch wrote: »

Victor wrote: »

Stop reading other peoples' post. Doing so is an offence. Send it back as detailed above.

Why don't want to give the phone companies your name, do you have the same or similar name? Are you related to the phone user?

As i said, its the letterbox that opens them I dont go around the house with my eyes closed.
I dont want to give them my name as I have no contract with them, I tried to inform them of the issue, it seems to me they have been defrauded and they allowed the actual user of the account to continue using their service.

Names used are definitely not similar! and not related, unless I have some distant relatives that live on the Black Sea coast, who have come to visit but never told me about their arrival or the usage of my gas and elec bills. As I shred everything, I'll hazard a guess the person/s has typed up their own documents somehow and scammed this company.

Inform your local post office and they might be able to stop the letters

krd

Merch wrote: »

I phoned them many times from the very start of this issue to inform them that there must be a billing address error OR that its is possibly a fraud, but they refuse to deal with me because I decline to give them my name (Im not their customer, I have not signed any contract with them), they continued to send the bills. I dont want any association with these debts and my address.

Never mind the phone lines. You'll probably be speaking to someone who just started working there a week ago, and will probably be sacked in a month. And don't bother speaking to the supervisors either. A lot of them are sleazy and thick too. The "we can't talk to you because you're not a customer" is lazy scumbaggery. If a company was sending bills to the wrong address, and they were half way serious about security, they would take the caller very seriously. Because the company could be held liable if they released personal information to the wrong address.

Post the bills back to the billing address. With a 'person not known at this address' on them. Usually they have someone half-way competent doing the post.

discus

I think you're right not to give your details. I imagine a company that has such ridiculous issues would only use you as a scapegoat.

Merch

discus wrote: »

I think you're right not to give your details. I imagine a company that has such ridiculous issues would only use you as a scapegoat.

scapegoat, maybe, maybe not, but as they are unwilling to part with details to someone that is not their customer, I dont see how it helps them if they have my name? they still wont tell me anything and really they dont know if its true anyway, so I've no interest in giving them those details, they have been lax in their security to allow such an account/s to be set up at all, not to mention that I informed them from the start of the situation and they declined to accept that information even though it looks like now they knew all along they weren't even being paid. Scapegoating would mean intention, I fear their incompetence and somehow my name will become associated with the bills (I know thats unlikely, but its not an impossibiilty) and after dealing with them thats what I fear more.

I told them that whatever information they received such as bills etc for address verification should be confirmed for authenticity with the fraud counterparts from wherever they come ie gais or electric or what ever they were given, if that kind of investigation was completed by them, then they would have confirmation that the information used for billing history/address verification was not valid, ie counterfeit.

I feel harrased as I have tried to tell them countless times that they are sending the bills to an address where these people have never lived, the names are likely made up anyway, but they refused to listen, blindly insisting on a name, all the while not checking it out, having someone defraud them by more and more, how desperate are they for customers or free advertisement?

krd

Merch wrote: »

I informed them from the start of the situation and they declined to accept that information even though it looks like now they knew all along they weren't even being paid.

I have worked in a few very sleazy call centres. We'd have agents who would try their best just to fob someone off who called in. People too lazy to even give the most basic customer service. One of the little scams is to use the Data Protection excuse "we can't talk to you because you're not a customer" or "we can't talk to you because you're not the name on the bill". I used to get the same crap when I'd call these agents internally - I'm not joking, I would be in the same building and they would tell me they couldn't help me because of the data protection act.

I used to monitor their calls and they would make me sick. Really horrible people. The family member of a recently deceased person would call up, and instead of advising them of the procedure, they'd stonewall them with drivel about the data protection act.

I'll explain how data protection works. The service provider can not give information out - unless they can confirm it's the account holder. However it doesn't work the other way around, if someone calls up with a bill in their hand, they can give all those details to the service provider. The service provider is not breaching the data protection act.

One of my jobs was complaints escalation (it could take a long time before you got through to me). If someone called, receiving someone else's bill, I would ask them to post it to me. I would also try to contact the customer on the bill. Usually it's something as simple as someone has screwed up the billing address - it happens because the companies I worked for were so keen on employing incompetent morons and lazy scum. If there was anything bogey about the account, I could find that out too. And to do an entire task like this would usually take me no longer than 5 minutes. 5 minutes....just 5 minutes of giving a half a sh1t.

I have worked for service providers where the security was absurdly lax. I won't name them. But two providers I worked for. They had systems where there was no security or identification challenges. Customers would call up, and I would ask them for their mothers maiden name, even though I didn't have it. But literally anyone could call up and get whatever they wanted.

Victor

Use a pseudonym.

MagicSean

Why would they stop sending them. As far as they are concerned you could be the bill owner looking to get away from your bills. If you won't tell them your name why would they think otherwise?

krd

MagicSean wrote: »

Why would they stop sending them. As far as they are concerned you could be the bill owner looking to get away from your bills.

If you won't tell them your name why would they think otherwise?

Why would they think otherwise?..........Because maybe there are procedures they should be following instead of thinking.

Bills go to the wrong addresses all the time. All the time.

When I was handling these calls, I wouldn't even be that bothered asking for that persons name, I would just ask them to post the bill to me. I would have the home phone, mobile, and email address of the actual person on the bill. I would call and confirm with them.


Some people get worried, and have a right to be worried. False billing can be used in fraud. An address can receive a bogey credit rating, if a fraud has used that address.

In my experience there are more scammers and fraudsters, operating within the call centres than from the people calling them.

I could tell you lots of stories, from agents using customers credit cards for shopping sprees - to the more common, sales agents signing people up to services they never requested, or creating completely bogus sales just for commission.

Merch

Victor wrote: »

Use a pseudonym.

ha, I tried but, I was being upfront,
It went something like this, or words to this effect
Them "but you absolutely have to tell us your name",
Me "No I dont, Im not your customer,Im trying to inform you of an issue which you should be interested in"
Them "Well if you give us your name we can help"? I didn't see how
Me "ok, Hesus Cristos"
Them "thats not your real name"
Me " theres no fooling you! unless of course i want an iphone"

Ok I didnt say that last line

MagicSean wrote: »

Why would they stop sending them. As far as they are concerned you could be the bill owner looking to get away from your bills. If you won't tell them your name why would they think otherwise?

Yes they did say this to me, but also I could be who I am, if they bothered to investigate the proofs of address, they would see that they can only be, must be fakes.
They also accused me of being negligent with my bills, I am religious about shredding everything, I've been slagged for being OCD in the past for having a shredder before they were common place.

If I wont tell them my name, that does not mean they should assume I am the account holder, I can understand they might think that off the bat, but I may equally be a person that has located as another poster has suggested a billing error that someone is unaware of/too lazy to sort out, or a fraudulent account, in this case accounts.

AND because it is a number of accounts, with slightly different variations of my address in a number of bills with different names, then I am aware that it is a fraudulent activity and not a billing error.

What good does it do them for me to tell them my name?? If I was the account holder (accounts) then why would I tell them the name on the bills?? if i was trying to get away with it, I could just say I am X, thats not the name on the bills, stop sending me stuff, how would that prove anything to them.

I have provided my information to a separate organisation (The gardai), showed them the bills, showed them my drivers licence, they told me the company is being silly, that they should close the accounts and report it themselves, I told Garda that I am doing this as the company insists it cant/that they will persist in sending me stuff and I want it to end, he said what they are asking is unreasonable and uneccesary as they should be following it up themselves but followed up my inquiry.

Merch

MagicSean wrote: »

Why would they stop sending them. As far as they are concerned you could be the bill owner looking to get away from your bills. If you won't tell them your name why would they think otherwise?

The thing is, Im not their customer, ive no contract with them, I just want them to stop harrasing me.
In all the time they ignored me, the bills have gone from moderately low to ridiculously high.

I asked them why didnt they just shut the accounts, as the gardai also said, the gard also said they could send a signal to the phones to shut them off, which I was aware, I said this to the company but they said
oh so the gardai told you that the person operating the account is wrong before anything has been proved? I said well havent they run off with your iphone or whatever and not paid the bill??

Victor

Merch wrote: »

I just want them to stop harrasing me.

Cooperation works both ways.

MarkR

You seem intent on making things difficult for yourself. Ring them up. Tell them the person named on the letter doesn't live there, and give your name. Job done, and you won't have to go on the internet looking for advice.

Mark them return to sender, and pop them back in the post.

Merch

Victor wrote: »

Cooperation works both ways.

I have been cooperative, I have done things that are beyond necessary
I have no account or contract with them so I should not be accused or suspected of making an error or committing a crime before it has been proved, and giving my name proves nothing, they have proved they allow people to open accounts with false details, which they do not confirm.

They have no right to my name based on their ineptitude, how will that allow them to shut an account down anyway, for all I know they will associate my name with the bill and my address.

MarkR wrote: »

You seem intent on making things difficult for yourself. Ring them up. Tell them the person named on the letter doesn't live there, and give your name. Job done, and you won't have to go on the internet looking for advice.

Mark them return to sender, and pop them back in the post.

I dont see how that is job done, how does that help me at all, they have not said that they will stop sending me bills if I do that, only that they will talk to me.

Anyway it is in the hands of the Gardai, I just wanted to know how much a solicitors letter will cost and will that help stop them,
I will approach a solicitor and make the enquiry.

They have done wrong here, not me, in their foolishness and laziness they have gone from being owed a few hundred to thousands, idiots, I am not taking any chance that my name will be tacked onto that.
I will update the progress but as they take weeks to respond to emails it could be weeks before I can do that.

Procrastastudy

Merch wrote: »

I keep receiving bills for mobile phone accounts for people that dont live at my address.
This has occurred since one half of the company came into business, nearly two years ago I think.

I phoned them many times from the very start of this issue to inform them that there must be a billing address error OR that its is possibly a fraud, but they refuse to deal with me because I decline to give them my name (Im not their customer, I have not signed any contract with them), they continued to send the bills. I dont want any association with these debts and my address.

I have requested numerous times verbally that they stop sending the bills to my address, I didnt always have the time to follow up and i found the website catered to customers (which I am not) ie chat support to get info, I found it difficult to locate phone numbers or any address to send a registered letter formally requesting they stop sending me their spam.

Do I need to get a solicitors letter to do this? I dont have much spare money, how much will this cost? what are my other options?

PS I tried A,COMREG and B,Data Protection Commisioners but they say its outside their remit as I am A, Not a customer and B, Its not my name being misused, just my address.

Move?

krd

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Move?

Tell me......people trying to punch you in the face......is it a regular occurrence.

seavill

Merch wrote: »

The thing is, Im not their customer, ive no contract with them, I just want them to stop harrasing me.
In all the time they ignored me, the bills have gone from moderately low to ridiculously high.

I asked them why didnt they just shut the accounts, as the gardai also said, the gard also said they could send a signal to the phones to shut them off, which I was aware, I said this to the company but they said
oh so the gardai told you that the person operating the account is wrong before anything has been proved? I said well havent they run off with your iphone or whatever and not paid the bill??

This is really simple and I agree with others you are making life hard for yourself.

Firstly you should not be opening mail that is not addressed to you I believe this is illegal (let me know if I am wrong but it was what i was told before). You can make all the excuses you want for doing this but in the end of the day you are wrong to do it. There is no getting away from that fact.

Secondly you have two choices seen as you have explained and re explained that you will not give them your name
- ignore the letters and just put them in the bin, they have nothing to do with you just treat them like all that other **** we get in the door daily from tesco etc. I don't see why this is not possible. I get at least 2 pieces of junk every day which has to go in the bin just add in these letters it won't kill you. the bills have nothing to do with you so no one can come after you no matter what.
- mark return to sender on every single one they will get tired of receiving them back every time and will eventually do something about it again not your problem they dont have your name so no one will come after you whatever address they have.

You are making life extremely hard for yourself, doing either of my two suggestions makes your life very easy and involves no work on your part.

Move on and get over it

Procrastastudy

krd wrote: »

Tell me......people trying to punch you in the face......is it a regular occurrence.

My sarcasm come across better in person.

Then again the 17 stone and 6'2" might have something to do with it.

Grolschevik

Merch wrote: »

I just want them to stop harrasing me.

Getting junk mail counts as harrassment now?

Merch wrote: »

for all I know they will associate my name with the bill and my address.

I am not taking any chance that my name will be tacked onto that.

A tad paranoid.

Merch wrote: »

Anyway it is in the hands of the Gardai, I just wanted to know how much a solicitors letter will cost and will that help stop them,
I will approach a solicitor and make the enquiry.

Really? Really? Wasting garda time, your own time, and your money over what is essentially the same as junk mail? Stop winding yourself up and get a grip. The only, only possible downside for you of all of this is having to write "not at this address" on them or stick them in the bin.

Merch wrote: »

They have done wrong here, not me, in their foolishness and laziness they have gone from being owed a few hundred to thousands, idiots,

None of your business.

seavill wrote: »

This is really simple and I agree with others you are making life hard for yourself.

Firstly you should not be opening mail that is not addressed to you .


- ignore the letters and just put them in the bin, they have nothing to do with you just treat them like all that other **** we get in the door daily from tesco etc. I don't see why this is not possible.

the bills have nothing to do with you so no one can come after you no matter what.

- mark return to sender on every single one they will get tired of receiving them back every time and will eventually do something about it again not your problem they dont have your name so no one will come after you whatever address they have.

You are making life extremely hard for yourself, doing either of my two suggestions makes your life very easy and involves no work on your part.

Move on and get over it

^^^^
This.

Victor

seavill wrote: »

- ignore the letters and just put them in the bin

This may be an offence.

Merch

Grolschevik wrote: »

Getting junk mail counts as harrassment now?

A tad paranoid.

Really? Really? Wasting garda time, your own time, and your money over what is essentially the same as junk mail? Stop winding yourself up and get a grip. The only, only possible downside for you of all of this is having to write "not at this address" on them or stick them in the bin.

None of your business.

^^^^
This.

As I said, they wanted me to go the gardai, they then waited weeks to obtain information they wanted, the Gardai told me the company simply could report this themselves but they seem too lazy to do that. they are bombarding me with post,a number of bills to differant names, decline to give me information (which I can understand) but then demand I give them my details.
If I really was one of the account holders and a scam artist, why oh why would I give them accurate information? and what use would it be to them to have my name anyway?? or any name, they have also lied to me saying they would stop sending the post if I reported the issue now saying an investigation will have to be carried out (thats understandable) but different to what I was previously told.
They simply dont have a process to deal with the issue that has come up and if they are losing money on a large number of accounts like this, I cant see how they could be in business, maybe they have customers money to burn?? they certainly seem to have a bit of a bad reputation for customer service.



Also, if you're going to throw a hissy fit, maybe just dont bother replying, none of what you said answers the questions I asked, but thanks for that anyway.

Faolchu

Victor wrote: »

Use a pseudonym.

Exactly when they ask your name say joe mcfluffynipples and then they can't use the excuse

seavill

re post as not sure did you miss my two suggestions a few posts earlier

someone mentioned one might be an offence but who's to know whether you actually do it or not

Secondly you have two choices seen as you have explained and re explained that you will not give them your name
- ignore the letters and just put them in the bin, they have nothing to do with you just treat them like all that other **** we get in the door daily from tesco etc. I don't see why this is not possible. I get at least 2 pieces of junk every day which has to go in the bin just add in these letters it won't kill you. the bills have nothing to do with you so no one can come after you no matter what.
- mark return to sender on every single one they will get tired of receiving them back every time and will eventually do something about it again not your problem they dont have your name so no one will come after you whatever address they have.

Merch

Faolchu wrote: »

Exactly when they ask your name say joe mcfluffynipples and then they can't use the excuse

I tried

seavill wrote: »

re post as not sure did you miss my two suggestions a few posts earlier

someone mentioned one might be an offence but who's to know whether you actually do it or not

Secondly you have two choices seen as you have explained and re explained that you will not give them your name
- ignore the letters and just put them in the bin, they have nothing to do with you just treat them like all that other **** we get in the door daily from tesco etc. I don't see why this is not possible. I get at least 2 pieces of junk every day which has to go in the bin just add in these letters it won't kill you. the bills have nothing to do with you so no one can come after you no matter what.
- mark return to sender on every single one they will get tired of receiving them back every time and will eventually do something about it again not your problem they dont have your name so no one will come after you whatever address they have.

I guess I was trying to do the right thing, tell them what i suspected was a fraud/have no association between my address and the unpaid debts of someone else, to which i was accused by them of having mislaid/disposed of some paperwork with my details on it, if that was the case, they'd surely be using my name.
I think that looks like the only remaining option, bit unfortunate.

I'd hazard a guess its tesco information though and not tesco bank with demands for thousands of euro.
I'm suprised the company have such a bureaucratic process for dealing with something that has caused them to go from being owed hundreds to a hell of a lot more.

Grolschevik

Merch wrote: »

As I said, they wanted me to go the gardai, they then waited weeks to obtain information they wanted, the Gardai told me the company simply could report this themselves but they seem too lazy to do that. they are bombarding me with post,a number of bills to differant names, decline to give me information (which I can understand) but then demand I give them my details.
If I really was one of the account holders and a scam artist, why oh why would I give them accurate information? and what use would it be to them to have my name anyway?? or any name, they have also lied to me saying they would stop sending the post if I reported the issue now saying an investigation will have to be carried out (thats understandable) but different to what I was previously told.
They simply dont have a process to deal with the issue that has come up and if they are losing money on a large number of accounts like this, I cant see how they could be in business, maybe they have customers money to burn?? they certainly seem to have a bit of a bad reputation for customer service.
.

Why do you care about this?

Merch

Grolschevik wrote: »

Why do you care about this?

see post 32

seavill

Merch wrote: »

I tried



I guess I was trying to do the right thing, tell them what i suspected was a fraud/have no association between my address and the unpaid debts of someone else, to which i was accused by them of having mislaid/disposed of some paperwork with my details on it, if that was the case, they'd surely be using my name.
I think that looks like the only remaining option, bit unfortunate.

I'd hazard a guess its tesco information though and not tesco bank with demands for thousands of euro.
I'm suprised the company have such a bureaucratic process for dealing with something that has caused them to go from being owed hundreds to a hell of a lot more.

Yes that's all well and good the first or second time but they clearly don't care so I don't know why you care so much, If they accepted your help the first time fair enough but why bother continuing when it is getting you absolutely no where and you are clearly very wound up about it.

The second point highlighted above - who cares what it is, its not for you, they don't seem too bothered so what does it matter what it is or whos its for or for how much, its nothing to do with you so forget about it.

Merch

seavill wrote: »

Yes that's all well and good the first or second time but they clearly don't care so I don't know why you care so much, If they accepted your help the first time fair enough but why bother continuing when it is getting you absolutely no where and you are clearly very wound up about it.

The second point highlighted above - who cares what it is, its not for you, they don't seem too bothered so what does it matter what it is or whos its for or for how much, its nothing to do with you so forget about it.

Thats all true I suppose, I guess I'm persistant, or stubborn or maybe ignorant

I like to see a job through to the end, even the bitter end

I was pissed about it, confounded by their attitude, but you're right
ahh screw it
Now, what i need to do is go and scam a phone off them, that'll cheer me up, it seems like it could be easy to do
especially as they are quite slow to catch on,
Now if someone will just give me a name

I cant use hesus cristos or fluffymcnipples though

Merch

This was my problem, I think it says it all, Homer I should not have forsaken thou

Merch

I feel vindicated, to my detractors nah nah na na na
Seriously, this ties in with my experience very closely that Im suprised it didnt come up before.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0910/emobile-meteor-guilty-of-data-legislation-breach.html

Meteor and eMobile plead guilty to data legislation breaches

Updated: 22:21, Monday, 10 September 2012

inShare21

Two telecoms companies have pleaded guilty to multiple breaches of data protection legislation at the Dublin District Court.


Two laptops were stolen containing customer's personal data


Play

One News: Meteor and eMobile plead guilty to data protection breaches

Play

News At One: Will Goodbody reports on a data protection breach by two telecoms companies

They have been ordered to pay a total of €30,000 to two charities.
The charges follow the theft of two unencrypted laptops from the office of Eircom Ltd, trading as eMobile, and Meteor Mobile Communications Ltd, trading as Meteor, in Parkwest in Dublin late in 2011 or early in 2012.
The laptops contained personal and financial information of customers. Both companies are part of the Eircom group.
They were charged with failing to protect the personal data held on the laptops, failing to notify the Data Protection Commission of this personal data breach without undue delay and failure to notify the affected individuals without delay.
It is the first prosecution taken with regard to the loss of personal data on an unencrypted laptop.
Both companies pleaded guilty to the charges before Dublin District Court this morning and received the benefit of the Probation Act, provided they make the donation to charity.
The court heard that the theft of the two password-protected but unencrypted computers took place sometime between 28 December 2011 and 2 January 2012 from Eircom's business premises at Parkwest in Dublin.
The laptops were discovered missing on 3 January and the matter reported to gardaí the following day.
The Office of the Data Protection Commissioner says all such breaches should be reported to its office within two working days.
However, the court was told that in this instance it was only notified of the breach 30 days after the laptops were found to be missing.
In total, the laptops contained details of 3,944 Meteor customers and 6,295 eMobile customers.
In the case of eMobile, the data included customer application forms, including passport details, utility bills, driving licence details, financial statements and credit and debit card information for 142 of the customers.
eMobile only began informing customers 38 days after the laptops were reported stolen, but it took up to 77 days to inform some customers.
The details of the remaining eMobile customers included names, addresses, telephone numbers and account details.
The Meteor data also contained application form information such as passport and driving licence details, and financial statements of 1,244 customers out of a total of 3,944 customers who were listed on the laptops.
Meteor began informing customers 38 days after the laptops were stolen, but in some cases it took up 73 days before everyone was informed.
Apologising for what had happened, Eircom's solicitor told the court that the personal data should not have been on the laptops, and the computers should have been encrypted.
The court was told that Eircom Group had in excess of 3,100 encrypted laptops prior to this data breach. Following this breach, the group identified approximately 160 laptops that were not encrypted.
However, the court heard that all unencrypted laptops have since been encrypted.
Eircom said it had difficulty identifying what exactly had been on the laptops, and it was this that had led to the delay in notifying the ODPC and the customers.
Judge John O'Neill said the procedures were there to be followed, but in this case they had not.
He said there had so far been no loss to customers in this instance, but it was not guaranteed that those affected would not suffer loss in the future.
Judge O'Neill said both companies should have notified the Data Protection Commission without delay, but he he also noted both had come in with their hands up and had not attempted to minimise their part in these offences.
He said under the circumstances, a payment to charity reflecting the maximum fines available under the legislation, was the most appropriate solution.
The judge gave the companies the benefit of the Probation Act, provided they pay a total of €30,000 to the Laura Lynn Foundation and Pieta House by the end of the month.

Tom Young

How does this tie with incorrect addressing?

Merch

well,the company in question told me utility bills of some description of my address were used to create these accounts so i dont think its a matter of incorrect addressing, the accounts were set up using my address, it is not merely a typo error.
At the least it shows e-mobile/meteor are careless with personal information and do not take timely action to rectify such problems, something i experienced with them when i informed them of the issue, which they then declined to believe.

All the while they were aware they had disclosed personal information and at the same time had accused me of doing the same.

I was once a customer of meteor many years ago, so its possible my information was disclosed.

At best they are utter jackasses at worst it seems negligent.

Tom Young

So, it doesn't tie at all with the losing of a laptop/data, as I expected.

Criminal Negligence is a fairly serious accusation to make about anyone, or company, are we sure that such an allegation is correct?

Procrastastudy

OT but honest question - don't you have to be criminally negligent of something? People seem to bandy around the term as if being negligent simpliciter can be a crime - I don't see how it could be but I'm happy to be corrected.

Tom Young

There are two types of negligence relevant to the criminal law.

1. Ordinary or simple negligence and is most often applied in the context of motor vehicle offences, e.g., S.52 of the RTA 1961 (Amended by S.13 RTA 2004);

2. Gross negligence and arises in the context of the offence of manslaughter.

When considering if an accused acted negligently the tribunal/trier of fact would as two questions (generally):

1. would a reasonable person have been aware of the risks in question; and
2. knowing those risks would the reasonable person have run them.

MagicSean

Merch wrote: »

well,the company in question told me utility bills of some description of my address were used to create these accounts so i dont think its a matter of incorrect addressing, the accounts were set up using my address, it is not merely a typo error.
At the least it shows e-mobile/meteor are careless with personal information and do not take timely action to rectify such problems, something i experienced with them when i informed them of the issue, which they then declined to believe.

All the while they were aware they had disclosed personal information and at the same time had accused me of doing the same.

I was once a customer of meteor many years ago, so its possible my information was disclosed.

At best they are utter jackasses at worst it seems criminally negligent.

No, at the least it shows that someone has access to your letterbox other than you. Because otherwise they wouldn't be able to get the utility bills that were sent to you.

The fact remains op that if you continue to remain anonymous you will likely get nowhere with them nor will you be able to go any official route. The reason being that they have no way of knowing you are not the person named on the bill. If you keep trying to make up false names and pretending to be other people you are opening yourself to criminal charges.

The two options open to you are
1) Use your name like a normal person and sort the problem out in very little time.
2) Keep ignoring the letters until the debt collectors come and try reason with them.

Merch

Tom Young wrote: »

So, it doesn't tie at all with the losing of a laptop/data, as I expected.

Criminal Negligence is a fairly serious accusation to make about anyone, or company, are we sure that such an allegation is correct?

I meant it the manner that is seriously negligent, I dont know what the technically correct definition of criminally negligent is so I removed criminal, but they were fined for data legistlation breaches, I assumed that was an offence given they were fined

1. would a reasonable person have been aware of the risks in question; and
2. knowing those risks would the reasonable person have run them.

That organisation seems to have failed on both counts so it seems they were/are negligent.

No, at the least it shows that someone has access to your letterbox other than you. Because otherwise they wouldn't be able to get the utility bills that were sent to you.

The fact remains op that if you continue to remain anonymous you will likely get nowhere with them nor will you be able to go any official route. The reason being that they have no way of knowing you are not the person named on the bill. If you keep trying to make up false names and pretending to be other people you are opening yourself to criminal charges.

The two options open to you are
1) Use your name like a normal person and sort the problem out in very little time.
2) Keep ignoring the letters until the debt collectors come and try reason with them.

No one has access to my letterbox except me, one other person and the postman, the latter merely the outside of the letterbox.
As I am here when post arrives, I know mail isnt being intercepted.I gave a false name as a joke right in the middle of the conversation, it was santa claus or something like that, I dont see how me giving my name allows them to give out any information themselves as they simply would never know if it is true.
Also I posted the link to rte as it shows they are carelessly negligent when dealing with customers personal information, why would I have given my details to someone I knew was already frivilous about that, only to see it proved in the rte article?
Anyway, I was posting it as vindication that I was proved correct about them rather than anything else.

monkeypants

MagicSean wrote: »

1) Use your name like a normal person and sort the problem out in very little time.

I'd be wary of this one. The next thing, you'll be receiving the same bills, only your name will be on them. Now it's definitely your problem.

Beano

monkeypants wrote: »

I'd be wary of this one. The next thing, you'll be receiving the same bills, only your name will be on them. Now it's definitely your problem.

What a ridiculous statement to make.

krd

Beano wrote: »

What a ridiculous statement to make.

No, it's not a ridiculous statement to make. When I was fixing billing problems for people, it was a regular occurrence. Customers at similar addresses can get mixed up. And it happens that one John Smitnh gets the bill for another John Smith. There can be glitches where people have never had a service get billed.

And identity theft happens. I knew some very bad people, who unfortunately knew me, they set up a bord gais account in my name, they also set up a phone account in another friends name. They ran up huge bills on both - with no intention of paying. To create these accounts a lot of the time you require no proof of identity. You can just make a phone call and pretend to be whoever you want to be.

Beano

it is a ridiculous thing to say. Are you saying that if the OP goes back to the company that is sending the bill and tell them that the person they are sending the bill to does not live at the address that they will turn around and bill the OP instead? That is ridiculous. This is nothing to do with identity theft. The Op's identity has not been stolen.

monkeypants

Beano wrote: »

What a ridiculous statement to make.

I understand that it may sound that way at first, but it happened to me. Was able to get out of it finally by threatening legal action.

Beano

monkeypants wrote: »

I understand that it may sound that way at first, but it happened to me. Was able to get out of it finally by threatening legal action.

Well if it happened to you thats fair enough. But it does sound ridiculous.
That sounds like a cowboy chancing his arm.