Irish Gun Control - To Strict?

codex1 · 24-08-2012 09:25PM

dyl10 wrote: »

No. Criminals being the only ones having guns is a mis-directed argument. Most criminals don't have guns, as in most crime-sectors in Ireland, excluding a few choice areas, there is little need for them. In those choice areas, the vast majority of shootings are between people involved in crime.

I'd rather not own a gun knowing that there is very good chance my burglar won't be carrying either, rather than have us both armed.

But criminals are the ones who can most easily obtain a gun, provided they have the cash.

But again, from the sporting viewpoint - if I am well trained & have proven myself to be a responsible gun owner, why should my purchasing options be severely limited as they currently are? It is this that I have an issue with.
.
To me its like placing a restriction on buying hurleys because you could use one as a deadly weapon

crazy cabbage · 24-08-2012 09:25PM

codex1 wrote: »

I don't, if you read a few of my posts you would have seen I am coming from a sporting firearms standpoint.

I said nothing about violent crime in Ireland, I should be able to defend my property regardless of weather a criminal is armed or not, not saying shot the guy - but to be able to subdue him, personally I don't really want to get close enough to find out if he is armed or not, as for hitting a criminal with a hammer as some have suggested - that is nonsense because its assuming their is just one assailant, he does not have any weapons of his own (non firearms) and you have to get within an arms reach to subdue him putting yourself at risk. No thanks.

1: Protection of you home
This is a seemingly logical point. keep you home safe. yea?
The problem is that guns are mostly just able to be used as a scar tactic of criminals rather than being any good for actula defense. A home is close quatered with many obstacles standing in the way of you and your 'target'. That is presuming that you could get to your gun. I would seriely dout the you intruder will let you go walk about in you house so you can go get a gun.
This study links guns kept in homes to much higher homicide rate in children.
What do you say to that. OOOOo well i keep my gun in a gun case. Well it isn't much good if someone breaks in then is it. They are not going to wait around while you open you big padlock box.
guns creat more problems than they sovle

2: Self defence
Why not learn a marital art if you are so worried about self defence. You can use that anywhere even if the county you happen to be in forbids guns
Better yet why not have a debate about tasers. (should have put this is point 1 aswell) They will render your opponent useless while you can call the gards. They will be there by the time he come round. if not tase him again

3: Criminals
first very few have guns. the ones that do may have a little more power but that has never stoped them in the past. In america where the 'good' people have guns too there is still a very high rate of crime.

Guns are bad. They are used for killing. why fight evil with evil and let good people get hurt.
I would rather america takes steps towards a better society rather than reinforce outdated ignorance
Guns need to be abolished and peace promoted

MadsL · 24-08-2012 09:26PM

PieForPi wrote: »

The US has an intentional homicide rate almost 4 times higher than ours, Britain's or Canada's. They can keep their guns.

Balanced by the fact that you are 2.5 times as likely to be assaulted in the UK.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_ass_vic-crime-assault-victims

crazy cabbage wrote: »

Doesn't america have one of the highest rates of gun crime in the world?

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_fir_hom_rat_per_100_pop-rate-per-100-000-pop
8th highest homocides by guns in the world, but a tenth of Thailand's rate. Funny how we don't get quite as hysterical about that.

Note that the Czech republic has more liberal gun laws than parts of the US, and yet a low murder rate with firearms. As does Switzerland. Bare statistics don't paint the full picture.

You are more likely to be shot (when the outcome is murder) in Slovakia than the US.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_hom_wit_fir-crime-gun-violence-homicides-firearms

Mike87 · 24-08-2012 09:27PM

codex1 wrote: »

Right now kids can take knifes, razor blades, solvents and lots of other scary stuff to school in Ireland, but it rarely happens. Should we start banning everything that can be used as a weapon, come on ;-)

So that stuff rarely happens here? And who in the US told you that? :rolleyes:

codex1 · 24-08-2012 09:28PM

garv123 wrote: »

Knives and razor blades are illegal to carry in public without valid reason already :pac:
You really know nothing about Irish laws do you?

Yeah & the same should be applied to guns, does not mean that there will be a few bad apples.

Cherry picking words out of context, you've nothing to add.

garv123 · 24-08-2012 09:29PM

codex1 wrote: »

But criminals are the ones who can most easily obtain a gun, provided they have the cash.

But again, from the sporting viewpoint - if I am well trained & have proven myself to be a responsible gun owner, why should my purchasing options be severely limited as they currently are? It is this that I have an issue with.
.
To me its like placing a restriction on buying hurleys because you could use one as a deadly weapon

Why do you ignore when people tell you the choice is not severely limited and you can own what you want besides CF pistols and full auto if you have a valid reason?

garv123 · 24-08-2012 09:31PM

codex1 wrote: »

Yeah & the same should be applied to guns, does not mean that there will be a few bad apples.

Cherry picking words out of context, you've nothing to add.

Guns are illegal to carry in public without valid reason :pac:

eth0 · 24-08-2012 09:31PM

Gun licenses are a bit too expensive here. No way should you be required to pay the govt 20e a year for the privilege of owning a pellet gun that couldnt put a hole in a piece of chipboard from 1m away

garv123 · 24-08-2012 09:33PM

eth0 wrote: »

Gun licenses are a bit too expensive here. No way should you be required to pay the govt 20e a year for the privilege of owning a pellet gun that couldnt put a hole in a piece of chipboard from 1m away

26.66 a year aint to expensive and what are you on about pellet guns?

codex1 · 24-08-2012 09:34PM

crazy cabbage wrote: »

1: Protection of you home
This is a seemingly logical point. keep you home safe. yea?
The problem is that guns are mostly just able to be used as a scar tactic of criminals rather than being any good for actula defense. A home is close quatered with many obstacles standing in the way of you and your 'target'. That is presuming that you could get to your gun. I would seriely dout the you intruder will let you go walk about in you house so you can go get a gun.
This study links guns kept in homes to much higher homicide rate in children.
What do you say to that. OOOOo well i keep my gun in a gun case. Well it isn't much good if someone breaks in then is it. They are not going to wait around while you open you big padlock box.
guns creat more problems than they sovle

2: Self defence
Why not learn a marital art if you are so worried about self defence. You can use that anywhere even if the county you happen to be in forbids guns
Better yet why not have a debate about tasers. (should have put this is point 1 aswell) They will render your opponent useless while you can call the gards. They will be there by the time he come round. if not tase him again

3: Criminals
first very few have guns. the ones that do may have a little more power but that has never stoped them in the past. In america where the 'good' people have guns too there is still a very high rate of crime.

Guns are bad. They are used for killing. why fight evil with evil and let good people get hurt.
I would rather america takes steps towards a better society rather than reinforce outdated ignorance
Guns need to be abolished and peace promoted

Your suggesting that I get marital art lessons & go all Chuck Norris on a gang of burglars?

I think that only happens in hollywood.

Tasers are worse than guns, UN classifies them as a torture device, because they are "non-lethal" idiots are far more likely to use them when its not necessary. Also, very limited range - I don't want to get close enough to fight it out with my new martial art skills, nor do I want to get close enough to use a taser.

You have a polarized view of guns & ignoring their many other uses e.g. sport & hunting....which some might say are the same thing.

christmas2012 · 24-08-2012 09:35PM

the nature of a gun is to harm an individual or animal,the licensing should be tight i think,if it turns out like the states when it comes to guns ,it will be a real shame,as we will see any old knack with guns,young and old,and that wont be a good thing for the general public if a pissed off hobo embittered and bitter at the world and people in general can get their hands on a gun.it would be like a ticking time bomb before public shootings begin..

Mike87 · 24-08-2012 09:35PM

codex1 wrote: »

But criminals are the ones who can most easily obtain a gun, provided they have the cash.

You keep saying this over and over.... can you back this up.

As was demonstrated earlier this year the real IRA are having problems sourcing arms. Are you trying to say that some little knacker house thieves/drug dealer is walking about armed whilst the the IRA cant get their hands on a few AR-15s?

Stop trying to spread lies/fear/paranoia- just because where you live in the US you need your semi auto under your pillow to sleep soundly at night doesnt mean we need the same here.

eth0 · 24-08-2012 09:36PM

garv123 wrote: »

26.66 a year aint to expensive and what are you on about pellet guns?

Yea i dont think there should be a renewal fee for those at all. Most countries dont require licenses for them anyway. 1 paid license should be able to cover multiple guns. 2 or more gun license + draconian safe requirements means having a couple different guns around or collecting soon becomes a very expensive hobby

codex1 · 24-08-2012 09:37PM

Mike87 wrote: »

So that stuff rarely happens here? And who in the US told you that? :rolleyes:

No one did, but living in Ireland for 35 years - I cannot recall ever hearing a story like this, please share the URL to a source showing an Irish kid going to school with a fistful of razor blades and carving people up to validate your argument?

The culture in the US is far different to Ireland, your not comparing like for like - you say you lived here, you should understand what I mean.

garv123 · 24-08-2012 09:40PM

eth0 wrote: »

Yea i dont think there should be a renewal fee for those at all. Most countries dont require licenses for them anyway. 1 paid license should be able to cover multiple guns. 2 or more gun license + draconian safe requirements means having a couple different guns around or collecting soon becomes a very expensive hobby

Pellet guns under 1j dont require a licence.

That used be the system here. One licence and guns added on cheaply.

But hey presto they decide we'll make more money off the 200,000, guns in Ireland and make it a licence per gun and 80euro for 3 years each. some lads have 12 licences to pay

codex1 · 24-08-2012 09:43PM

garv123 wrote: »

Why do you ignore when people tell you the choice is not severely limited and you can own what you want besides CF pistols and full auto if you have a valid reason?

Who said I wanted full auto? In fact I said I am against full auto in an earlier post.

I've yet to see a credible post here proving that I can legally buy the type of firearms that I wish to own. Yes I can purchase certain firearms, but not the ones I want - if I have the money to buy them & have a proven history of responsible firearm ownership, why should I not be able to do so?

garv123 · 24-08-2012 09:46PM

codex1 wrote: »

Who said I wanted full auto? In fact I said I am against full auto in an earlier post.

I've yet to see a credible post here proving that I can legally buy the type of firearms that I wish to own. Yes I can purchase certain firearms, but not the ones I want - if I have the money to buy them & have a proven history of responsible firearm ownership, why should I not be able to do so?

What type do you wish to own. If its not full auto or a CF pistol then you can own them since you have the money.

codex1 · 24-08-2012 09:46PM

garv123 wrote: »

Guns are illegal to carry in public without valid reason :pac:

Actually, you need a concealed weapons permit & the training + licensing which goes with it to carry in public, no one cares about your reason.

Guns are only allowed to be carried in public over here in certain states, some states such as California will not issue CWP's.

Witcher · 24-08-2012 09:46PM

codex1 wrote: »

I've yet to see a credible post here proving that I can legally buy the type of firearms that I wish to own. Yes I can purchase certain firearms, but not the ones I want - if I have the money to buy them & have a proven history of responsible firearm ownership, why should I not be able to do so?

You can own them if you have a reason

There are several AR15 pattern rifles licenced in Ireland at the moment, go talk to Grizzly45 over on the shooting forum he owns a Remington R25 in .243.

garv123 · 24-08-2012 09:47PM

codex1 wrote: »

Actually, you need a concealed weapons permit & the training + licensing which goes with it to carry in public, no one cares about your reason.

Guns are only allowed to be carried in public over here in certain states, some states such as California will not issue CWP's.

Im on about in Ireland which your thread is about not the US

crazy cabbage · 24-08-2012 09:48PM

MadsL wrote: »

Balanced by the fact that you are 2.5 times as likely to be assaulted in the UK.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_ass_vic-crime-assault-victims

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_fir_hom_rat_per_100_pop-rate-per-100-000-pop
8th highest homocides by guns in the world, but a tenth of Thailand's rate. Funny how we don't get quite as hysterical about that.

Note that the Czech republic has more liberal gun laws than parts of the US, and yet a low murder rate with firearms. As does Switzerland. Bare statistics don't paint the full picture.

You are more likely to be shot (when the outcome is murder) in Slovakia than the US.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_hom_wit_fir-crime-gun-violence-homicides-firearms

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime
here is another stastic from the same wedsite as you took yours. Shows america has the highest crime rates by far. doesn't mention guns but i wounder what might have caused america to have twice the crime rate than its nearest 'competator'

Your suggesting that I get marital art lessons & go all Chuck Norris on a gang of burglars? I think that only happens in hollywood.

Tasers are worse than guns, UN classifies them as a torture device, because they are "non-lethal" idiots are far more likely to use them when its not necessary. Also, very limited range - I don't want to get close enough to fight it out with my new martial art skills, nor do I want to get close enough to use a taser.

You have a polarized view of guns & ignoring their many other uses e.g. sport & hunting....which some might say are the same thing.

No. i was saying if people are so worried about there safty then why not learn self defence. Wouldn't work in america becouse ye already have that many guns circulating but in ireland where there is very few i would think that is enough

Tasers are worse than guns. I dont see why. Why cant they be highly regualated and only given to people who are seriesly worried about there safty and are sane.
You dont want to get close enough to use a taser but if someone breaks into you house they are not going to be a million miles away. If you can shoot them you will be able to taser them (unless you live in a mansion)

yes people can hunt and whatever. No objection and under current law that is possible

You also ignored some of my points indication the corralation between child homicide/susicide/death with guns lieing around the house

codex1 · 24-08-2012 09:49PM

christmas2012 wrote: »

the nature of a gun is to harm an individual or animal,the licensing should be tight i think,if it turns out like the states when it comes to guns ,it will be a real shame,as we will see any old knack with guns,young and old,and that wont be a good thing for the general public if a pissed off hobo embittered and bitter at the world and people in general can get their hands on a gun.it would be like a ticking time bomb before public shootings begin..

"nature of a gun is to harm an individual" - really? Because guns I use only harm paper targets & the occasional watermelon ;-)

kowloon · 24-08-2012 09:50PM

eth0 wrote: »

Yea i dont think there should be a renewal fee for those at all. Most countries dont require licenses for them anyway. 1 paid license should be able to cover multiple guns. 2 or more gun license + draconian safe requirements means having a couple different guns around or collecting soon becomes a very expensive hobby

A licence for each person containing all of their guns and their details on it would be ideal. The system as it currently stands is a bit of a mess.

codex1 · 24-08-2012 09:51PM

Mike87 wrote: »

You keep saying this over and over.... can you back this up.

As was demonstrated earlier this year the real IRA are having problems sourcing arms. Are you trying to say that some little knacker house thieves/drug dealer is walking about armed whilst the the IRA cant get their hands on a few AR-15s?

Stop trying to spread lies/fear/paranoia- just because where you live in the US you need your semi auto under your pillow to sleep soundly at night doesnt mean we need the same here.

I have a semi-auto under my pillow now?

Are there any other lies or slurs you want to assume or make up?

Stop talking nonsense.

garv123 · 24-08-2012 09:51PM

kowloon wrote: »

A licence for each person containing all of their guns and their details on it would be ideal. The system as it currently stands is a bit of a mess.

This is only the 3rd year of that system and they wont be changing it any time soon with the money they are making off it.

codex1 · 24-08-2012 09:53PM

garv123 wrote: »

What type do you wish to own. If its not full auto or a CF pistol then you can own them since you have the money.

So I can buy a barrett, Glock 45 ACP and DE .50 legally in Ireland?

No, I cannot and that's my point.

token101 · 24-08-2012 09:55PM

I can see why people feel they need them in the US, it's probably too late to introduce gun control now even if it was the will of the majority (which I doubt it is). But very few criminals in Ireland have guns, we don't need them in homes and business premises. If you want to play around with weapons as a hobby go to a gun club.

codex1 · 24-08-2012 09:56PM

garv123 wrote: »

Im on about in Ireland which your thread is about not the US

I am talking only about Ireland & the laws in Ireland, I think they are overly restrictive without justification.

codex1 · 24-08-2012 09:57PM

Blay wrote: »

You can own them if you have a reason

There are several AR15 pattern rifles licenced in Ireland at the moment, go talk to Grizzly45 over on the shooting forum he owns a Remington R25 in .243.

NO I cannot by a barret, .45 ACP or DE .50 in Ireland.

crazy cabbage · 24-08-2012 09:57PM

codex1 wrote: »

So I can buy a barrett, Glock 45 ACP and DE .50 legally in Ireland?

No, I cannot and that's my point.

I am glad we are not like america. there is so much wrong with that country. If you want to own weapons designed to kill even more efficently than the ones you can legly get here you can stay in america.

I for one do not want a same crazy idot with a gun under his pillow in my neighborhood

Irish Gun Control - To Strict?

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