Irish Gun Control - To Strict?

Witcher

codex1 wrote: »

Another very helpful comment from a politically disengaged troll

*Facepalm*

kowloon

The problem with the laws here is that they were badly thought out.The gubberment need to rethink it all from scratch.

There needs to be a set of uniform rules for everyone, currently it varies from place to place depending on how the Gardai interpret the rules.

The restrictions need to be thought out properly by people who know what they're talking about, not people who learnt from the Hollywood school of ballistics.

It'll never happen though, people only want to see the government being 'tough on gun crime' and the easiest way to look like something's being done without the cost or hassle of actually doing anything useful is to lean on those who already obey the law.

MadsL

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/aug/23/arms-licence-northern-ireland

Data about gun ownership in Northern Ireland.

We found that almost 60,000 members of the public own over 146,000 firearms with the remaining 7,018 legally-held guns belonging to serving police and prison officers.

We carried out our analysis as the Department of Justice in Northern Ireland is consulting on proposed changes to firearms licensing laws including increasing the cost of applying for a licence and reducing the legal age of gun ownership to 12.

The lower age limit is now 16 and it currently costs the PSNI more to run the licensing scheme than they recover in fees

codex1

garv123 wrote: »

Common thing here that you haven't a clue about gun control in Ireland :pac: and you start a thread about changing gun laws using outdated laws from when mullets were still a common style here :pac:

"common thing" - what thing?

Fact is, I cannot legally buy high powered sporting firearms in Ireland that I can buy over here, which I object to & is the whole point here.

My name is URL

Blay wrote: »

Nope, there's no allowance in the law here for a person to licence a firearm for self/home defence.

So realistically, the only legitimate reason that the vast majority of people would have for owning a gun, is to use it for hunting?

What if for example, I wanted to get a gun for target shooting? Afaik, there are no target shooting clubs or amenities close to where I live. Would that mean that getting a gun for reasons other than hunting would be out of the question for me from the get go?

Witcher

codex1 wrote: »

"common thing" - what thing?

Fact is, I cannot legally buy high powered sporting firearms in Ireland that I can buy over here, which I object to & is the whole point here.

So what? You're not even in Ireland so it has no bearing on your life, it's firearms owners here that have to live with these laws and as has been said we have no real issues with AR15's etc being restricted. If you want one you can still get one.

crazy cabbage

codex1 wrote: »

"common thing" - what thing?

Fact is, I cannot legally buy high powered sporting firearms in Ireland that I can buy over here, which I object to & is the whole point here.

Good

{ninja comment} I am not trolling. I tryed to argue ealier but you keep ignoring my posts {ninja comment}

Witcher

My name is URL wrote: »

So realistically, the only legitimate reason that the vast majority of people would have for owning a gun, is to use it for hunting?

What if for example, I wanted to get a gun for target shooting? Afaik, there are no target shooting clubs or amenities close to where I live. Would that mean that getting a gun for reasons other than hunting would be out of the question for me from the get go?

If you're a member of a range you can get a gun for target shooting, your proximity to a range doesnt matter either, you could be a member of a range in Kerry but live in Dublin and still get a licence.

hiram

codex1 wrote: »

PieForPi wrote: »

Er, you've proven that you basically know nothing about the gun laws here, so why are you discussing them?

So I can go buy Glock .45 or DE .50 in Ireland from my local gunstore? What about an AR?

Nope, cannot do it - which is exactly my point. Please read before posting.

Actually, you can buy..45.

kowloon

garv123 wrote: »

Common thing here that you haven't a clue about gun control in Ireland :pac: and you start a thread about changing gun laws using outdated laws from when mullets were still a common style here :pac:

Everything is fine and civil until someone brings up an emotive topic like mullets.

garv123

codex1 wrote: »

"common thing" - what thing?

Fact is, I cannot legally buy high powered sporting firearms in Ireland that I can buy over here, which I object to & is the whole point here.

You can own plenty of high powered rifles here that are usable to hunt game all over the world. You can go buy a AR or what ever you like but its a tougher licencing system than the us.

You cant buy CF handguns or fully automatic. Thats not that limited.
We just need valid reason for owning them.. unlike "for the craic" in the US

codex1

Mike87 wrote: »

AS an avid Irish firearms owner, who has also spent a lot of time in the US working in "tougher" areas. I can safely say that I would hate to see Irelands gun laws go on par with the US.

Over there, I was at house parties and people are so quick to pull guns on each other. Over there you do need one. The school I was working in had to scan every kid on the way in and out in the morning, at lunch and home time incase a kid decides to bring daddies/mommies/older brothers gun into school.

And then lets not forget the parents who insist on sending their kids to school with a pistol incase another kid goes on a shooting spree- they dont want their child defencless- and I cant blame them to be honest, but personally Id rather there was no guns in the first place to avoid all the hassle.

And lastly here on a Saturday night the worst you have to worry about is Paddy Mc Arsehole getting drunk and hitting someone with a bottle or snooker cue and not pulling out his 9mm and start letting off.

And in the US their "gangbangers" are somewhat respectable in that they only hassle each other. You think our trakkie wearing knackers cause lots of problems now? Just think what it will be like when they have easy access to firearms.

I disagree with some of this - if a child even gets access to your firearms here, you are automatically going to jail for a long time, its a felony - you can then never own a gun again nor can you vote, receive education loans or social security.

The problem is that in Ireland, criminals do have easy access to firearms - as long as they have the cash to pay for them.

Witcher

hiram wrote: »

Actually, you can buy..45.

Not in a pistol you can't.

kowloon

My name is URL wrote: »

So realistically, the only legitimate reason that the vast majority of people would have for owning a gun, is to use it for hunting?

What if for example, I wanted to get a gun for target shooting? Afaik, there are no target shooting clubs or amenities close to where I live. Would that mean that getting a gun for reasons other than hunting would be out of the question for me from the get go?

You can't put target shooting down as the reason if you're not target shooting in a club afaik. If I remember correctly there was even a blurry line between zeroing a gun and target shooting.

garv123

My name is URL wrote: »

So realistically, the only legitimate reason that the vast majority of people would have for owning a gun, is to use it for hunting?

What if for example, I wanted to get a gun for target shooting? Afaik, there are no target shooting clubs or amenities close to where I live. Would that mean that getting a gun for reasons other than hunting would be out of the question for me from the get go?

Thing is you need a valid reason to own a firearm here.. So if you don't want it for hunting and aren't willing to travel to the nearest target shooting range then you dont have a valid reason to own one.

There are plenty of target shooting ranges within very reasonable distances though..

codex1

PieForPi wrote: »

Says the man trying to claim we've a problem with violent crime here. Indeed, such a problem that we should be able to buy lethal weapons in a bid to stop it.

I don't, if you read a few of my posts you would have seen I am coming from a sporting firearms standpoint.

I said nothing about violent crime in Ireland, I should be able to defend my property regardless of weather a criminal is armed or not, not saying shot the guy - but to be able to subdue him, personally I don't really want to get close enough to find out if he is armed or not, as for hitting a criminal with a hammer as some have suggested - that is nonsense because its assuming their is just one assailant, he does not have any weapons of his own (non firearms) and you have to get within an arms reach to subdue him putting yourself at risk. No thanks.

Anita Blow

codex1 wrote: »

"common thing" - what thing?

Fact is, I cannot legally buy high powered sporting firearms in Ireland that I can buy over here, which I object to & is the whole point here.

And the fact is that 4 times more people per capita have to be killed just so you can have that right.
Your argument has been completely shot down but you keep harping on with this same lame argument "I can buy X in America but I can't buy it in Ireland. I'll ignore the repercussions because I want X".
I'm all for liberty and freedoms, but owning a machine whose sole purpose (outside of sport use which is legal here) is to end another person's life or harm another person is not a basic freedom as it violates another person's freedoms.

codex1

Blay wrote: »

So what? You're not even in Ireland so it has no bearing on your life, it's firearms owners here that have to live with these laws and as has been said we have no real issues with AR15's etc being restricted. If you want one you can still get one.

So because I don't live in Ireland right now you should I should not ask questions like this?

Mike87

codex1 wrote: »

I disagree with some of this - if a child even gets access to your firearms here, you are automatically going to jail for a long time, its a felony - you can then never own a gun again nor can you vote, receive education loans or social security.

Felony or not. They still do it. In one year we came across 3 kids with pistols.

codex1 wrote: »

The problem is that in Ireland, criminals do have easy access to firearms - as long as they have the cash to pay for them.

Im not sure its that easy. You would imagine the IRA would have decent connections in the criminal world- and even they have to buy and import pistols from Libya (if I remember correctly).

dyl10

No. Criminals being the only ones having guns is a mis-directed argument. Most criminals don't have guns, as in most crime-sectors in Ireland, excluding a few choice areas, there is little need for them. In those choice areas, the vast majority of shootings are between people involved in crime.

I'd rather not own a gun knowing that there is very good chance my burglar won't be carrying either, rather than have us both armed.

codex1

garv123 wrote: »

You can own plenty of high powered rifles here that are usable to hunt game all over the world. You can go buy a AR or what ever you like but its a tougher licencing system than the us.

You cant buy CF handguns or fully automatic. Thats not that limited.
We just need valid reason for owning them.. unlike "for the craic" in the US

But I want my Barrett .50 ;-)

Witcher

codex1 wrote: »

So because I don't live in Ireland right now you should I should not ask questions like this?

The questions you're asking are ridiculous...you're saying 'why can't I buy an AR15 over the counter in Ireland?' Because you've no fcking reason to have one that's why you can't buy it over the counter. If you have a legitimate reason you can have it. You could get an M82 Barrett .50 if you had a reason. You're making Ireland out to be some place where you can't have anything bar a single barrel shotgun or something. The guards are open to giving you any firearm you need outside of full auto's and CF pistols if you have a reason. If you don't like that then stay in the US and sleep with an AR15 under the pillow.

garv123

codex1 wrote: »

But I want my Barrett .50 ;-)

Yeah go get one so.. Just provide a valid reason for owning it and apply for your restricted licence and be sure your home is up to the security standard the chief super will want.

Be sure you have plenty of cash to pay for it too and for the courtcase where'll you'll be showing proof of why you need it.

codex1

Anita Blow wrote: »

And the fact is that 4 times more people per capita have to be killed just so you can have that right.
Your argument has been completely shot down but you keep harping on with this same lame argument "I can buy X in America but I can't buy it in Ireland. I'll ignore the repercussions because I want X".
I'm all for liberty and freedoms, but owning a machine whose sole purpose (outside of sport use which is legal here) is to end another person's life or harm another person is not a basic freedom as it violates another person's freedoms.

Your argument is invalid on a number of fronts.

"4 times more people per capita have to be killed" - 4 times more than who / what? What are you talking about.

How many of those deaths are caused by illegal gun ownership?

230,000 people on the US / Mexico border have been killed in the last 10 years due to the war on drugs, this does not include the large numbers killed from cartel & inter-gang violence which takes place in every major city here. These numbers skew the the gun / death statistics used by the anti-gun lobby in the US.

Do you think the cartels & criminals are buying their firearms legally?

Nonsense, accidents do happen but do you really think that if one guy wants to kill someone else, they will stop and think "gee - I don't have a gun, better abandon that plan".

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?CategoryId=14091&ArticleId=367604

codex1

Mike87 wrote: »

Felony or not. They still do it. In one year we came across 3 kids with pistols.



Im not sure its that easy. You would imagine the IRA would have decent connections in the criminal world- and even they have to buy and import pistols from Libya (if I remember correctly).

So your saying if gun laws where more relaxed in Ireland, kids would take guns to school?

Right now kids can take knifes, razor blades, solvents and lots of other scary stuff to school in Ireland, but it rarely happens. Should we start banning everything that can be used as a weapon, come on ;-)

Monty Burnz

codex1 wrote: »

So your saying if gun laws where more relaxed in Ireland, kids would take guns to school?

Right now kids can take knifes, razor blades, solvents and lots of other scary stuff to school in Ireland, but it rarely happens. Should we start banning everything that can be used as a weapon, come on ;-)

You are a boring, boring man.

garv123

codex1 wrote: »

So your saying if gun laws where more relaxed in Ireland, kids would take guns to school?

Right now kids can take knifes, razor blades, solvents and lots of other scary stuff to school in Ireland, but it rarely happens. Should we start banning everything that can be used as a weapon, come on ;-)

Knives and razor blades are illegal to carry in public without valid reason already :pac:
You really know nothing about Irish laws do you?

Anita Blow

codex1 wrote: »

Your argument is invalid on a number of fronts.

"4 times more people per capita have to be killed" - 4 times more than who / what? What are you talking about.

How many of those deaths are caused by illegal gun ownership?

230,000 people on the US / Mexico border have been killed in the last 10 years due to the war on drugs, this does not include the large numbers killed from cartel & inter-gang violence which takes place in every major city here. These numbers skew the the gun / death statistics used by the anti-gun lobby in the US.

Do you think the cartels & criminals are buying their firearms legally?

Nonsense, accidents do happen but do you really think that if one guy wants to kill someone else, they will stop and think "gee - I don't have a gun, better abandon that plan".

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?CategoryId=14091&ArticleId=367604

The US has an Intentional Homicide Rate of 4.2 per 100,000 people. Ireland has an IHR of 1.2 per 100,000 people.
The US has widespread gun ownership, Ireland does not.
In the past month there has been 4 high-profile killings of multiple innocent people by people who would've been considered sane/innocent before they carried out these attacks. They were Denver, Chicago, New York and Wisconsin.
I don't think I could name a similar incident in Ireland where a previously sane person with no previous violent convictions killed multiple civilians so easily.

You can twist and turn the figures and try to come up with any and every excuse, but those are the facts.

christmas2012

recently there have been shootings in newry and limerick of late,i would hate to think we could make it EVEN EASIER for these anti socials to get their hands on guns..keep the gun laws as they are,the guns really are only meant for farmer protection(as they live out in the middle of nowhere the back of beyonds with no help for miles or gards ambulance etc) and guards/army/genuine enthusiasts,not anti socials and cowboys..

marshbaboon

Odysseus wrote: »

What is the point you are trying to make? You cannot get such a firearm in Irteland. I use my sporting firearms for sport, what is wrong with that?

Nothing. It was a comment pertaining to US lax gun laws. The point is where do you place the upper limit if the laws are relaxed? If you enjoy shooting for sport, and you're able to own several weapons surely the laws aren't too strict.