Irish Gun Control - To Strict?

codex1 · 24-08-2012 08:15PM

PieForPi wrote: »

Er, you've proven that you basically know nothing about the gun laws here, so why are you discussing them?

So I can go buy Glock .45 or DE .50 in Ireland from my local gunstore? What about an AR?

Nope, cannot do it - which is exactly my point. Please read before posting.

PieForPi · 24-08-2012 08:15PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah no sure, them Yanks are havin grate craic wit dem boom shticks. Well, some of them are, and some of them are only dying. Tis only death, tis nathin!

I have the right to defend my house, commie! You're sounding very un-American right now, you know that, are you a communist BRO!?

This is the land of the FREE and the home of the BRAVE, MAN, and NOTHING says BRAVE like a massive f*cking gun in your house, right where everyone can get it, HIPPIE.

Witcher · 24-08-2012 08:15PM

codex1 wrote: »

What about an AR?

Nope, cannot do it - which is exactly my point. Please read before posting.

You could get an AR15 and it's variants if you had a reason for it.

PieForPi · 24-08-2012 08:17PM

codex1 wrote: »

So I can go buy Glock .45 or DE .50 in Ireland from my local gunstore? What about an AR?

Nope, cannot do it - which is exactly my point. Please read before posting.

Oh now, don't get all huffy just because your argument here has totally fallen apart on itself.

Did it hurt to abandon your values in order to fit in with the locals when you emigrated?

garv123 · 24-08-2012 08:18PM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

I'm all for the ideal world where we can all have guns and be responsible with them, but in an ideal world we wouldn't need them. Sadly in this world people are idiots. I believe that if someone breaks into your house you should have every right to insure your safety, I hate how in this country someone can break into my house and if I do anything I would probably be the one that would end up in trouble. We don't have a problem with guns in this country and opening the laws for more people could just cause more problems.

That has also changed with a while now.. You can now use reasonable force to defend your family or property and reasonable force may result in death.

codex1 · 24-08-2012 08:18PM

garv123 wrote: »

Yeah hang on while he goes to the webpage of people selling illegal guns in Ireland to get you a source..

Who says they use brand new guns? you can buy handguns for cheaper than that and even cheaper second hand.

How narrow minded of you, he told me you could illegally buy a gun on the streets of Ireland for 500 euro....where did this number come from? Can you not cite a newspaper or other article or are you just pulling "facts" from thin air.

Common theme that is appearing here is that their is SO much misinformation about gun control in the US and US culture.

BillyMitchel · 24-08-2012 08:18PM

Blay wrote: »

codex1 wrote: »

I disagree with the current legal restrictions on gun ownership in Ireland & believe they unjustly restrict individuals freedom, as long as I prove myself responsible & legal I should be able to purchase higher powered guns without the current crazy restrictions - within reason, not taking about buying fully automatic or military assault rifes.

As Ben Franklin said: Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither

What crazy restrictions are in force?

Putting in a safe?
Not being a lunatic?
Needing a reason for a gun?

I fully agree with those restrictions as a licence holder here, there are other minor points I would disagree with in our laws but the actual requirements to get a licence aren't bad.

I agree but the not being a lunatic bit. Could anyone not just snap one day and then go all John Rambo on someone's ass?? For example NY today.

Also, have the scummers of this country not broke into numerous premises before and stole guns? If more guns were in circulation would crimes like this not increase?

Witcher · 24-08-2012 08:20PM

BillyMitchel wrote: »

I agree but the not being a lunatic bit. Could anyone not just snap one day and then go all John Rambo on someone's ass?? For example NY today.

Also, have the scummers of this country not broke into numerous premises before and stole guns? If more guns were in circulation would crimes like this not increase?

They could but how many licence holders have done that in the past? Very few. It's a thorough enough process.

Criminals bring guns into the country illegally, they have little interest in bolt action rifles and over and under shotguns. Sure they do steal them but if the owner takes precautions then that can be avoided.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 24-08-2012 08:20PM

There was some guy who, in the wake of the Aurora cinema shootigns, said that it wouldn't have happened (or wouldn't have been as bad) if more people had guns.

Yeah. In a darkened cinema, I want more than one person shooting wildly at anythign that moves. Good idea. THIS is the attitudes you have to put up with from the pro-gun lobby.

24-08-2012 08:21PM

Actually, where do I stand?

Gun stewardship (not just ownership, but even possessing one in your hands) is an honour and a privilege, not a right.

If you hold a gun, you must know *how* to use it.

If you hold a gun, you must know *what* it is used for.

If you hold a gun, you must know *when* you should use it.

If you hold a gun, you must know *why* you are using it.

If you hold a gun, you must know that you submit to the chance of death at another's hands.

If you do not know any of the five above, it must be drilled into you, by physical force if necessary, to reiterate how important the above is.

I know that doesn't happen today, but I think it should.

Being Steward of a Gun is a Big F*cking Deal. You do *not* f*ck around with them.

codex1 · 24-08-2012 08:21PM

PieForPi wrote: »

Oh now, don't get all huffy just because your argument here has totally fallen apart on itself.

Did it hurt to abandon your values in order to fit in with the locals when you emigrated?

I'm not getting huffy, your just being assuming not to mention rude & have not contributed anything useful here.

My points are still very much intact, I have less freedom in Ireland than I do here. Sure I can buy some guns in Ireland, but not the ones I currently enjoy.

Witcher · 24-08-2012 08:23PM

codex1 wrote: »

I'm not getting huffy, your just being assuming not to mention rude & have not contributed anything useful here.

My points are still very much intact, I have less freedom in Ireland than I do here. Sure I can buy some guns in Ireland, but not the ones I currently enjoy.

Then stay in the US.

codex1 · 24-08-2012 08:24PM

crazy cabbage wrote: »

I phrased that wrong. What i ment to say is I would rather a society without guns full stop. For that to happen it would have to happen world wide otherwise crimials would just smugle them in and creat a big (bigger) black market around guns
But yes you are right. Legal guns are not the ones being used in murders. Our current laws are proberly ok all in all. People who want them for hunting or whatever can get them.

Thanks for the input CCabbage. I enjoy guns for sport & disagree with the current ownership limitations in Ireland within that context.

garv123 · 24-08-2012 08:24PM

codex1 wrote: »

How narrow minded of you, he told me you could illegally buy a gun on the streets of Ireland for 500 euro....where did this number come from? Can you not cite a newspaper or other article or are you just pulling "facts" from thin air.

Common theme that is appearing here is that their is SO much misinformation about gun control in the US and US culture.

Common thing here that you haven't a clue about gun control in Ireland :pac: and you start a thread about changing gun laws using outdated laws from when mullets were still a common style here :pac:

Mike87 · 24-08-2012 08:27PM

AS an avid Irish firearms owner, who has also spent a lot of time in the US working in "tougher" areas. I can safely say that I would hate to see Irelands gun laws go on par with the US.

Over there, I was at house parties and people are so quick to pull guns on each other. Over there you do need one. The school I was working in had to scan every kid on the way in and out in the morning, at lunch and home time incase a kid decides to bring daddies/mommies/older brothers gun into school.

And then lets not forget the parents who insist on sending their kids to school with a pistol incase another kid goes on a shooting spree- they dont want their child defencless- and I cant blame them to be honest, but personally Id rather there was no guns in the first place to avoid all the hassle.

And lastly here on a Saturday night the worst you have to worry about is Paddy Mc Arsehole getting drunk and hitting someone with a bottle or snooker cue and not pulling out his 9mm and start letting off.

And in the US their "gangbangers" are somewhat respectable in that they only hassle each other. You think our trakkie wearing knackers cause lots of problems now? Just think what it will be like when they have easy access to firearms.

jumpguy · 24-08-2012 08:27PM

Ireland has already gotten bad enough to the point that you'd be slow to try and break up some fisticuffs on a night out for fear someone will pull a knife. Bring guns into the equation? Jesus no.

The problem isn't the guns getting into the hands of the every day trustworthy Joe, it's that the place will become awash with guns and they'll work their way into less trustworthy hands. They just can't become a casual thing. Keep the guns for the enthusiasts who can be arsed going through all the bureaucracy to get one, and even then keep them limited.

Guns might save a few homes from robbery in the US - but the bottom line is the US has one of the highest firearm-related deaths in the first world. I sincerely hope if we ever get something like the NRA it'd be laughed out of the country.

PieForPi · 24-08-2012 08:27PM

codex1 wrote: »

Common theme that is appearing here is that their is SO much misinformation about gun control in the US and US culture.

Says the man trying to claim we've a problem with violent crime here. Indeed, such a problem that we should be able to buy lethal weapons in a bid to stop it.

mikemac1 · 24-08-2012 08:33PM

codex1 wrote: »

Dublin native now living in Montana for the last 6 years.

Governer Schweitzer of Montana was over in Waterford a few months back honouring favourite son of the Deise, Thomas Francis Meaghar.
The governer seemed a very nice and genuine man

Completly offtopic, sorry

jiltloop · 24-08-2012 08:33PM

retalivity wrote: »

to strict what?

To strict or not to strict? That is the question.... I presume.

PieForPi · 24-08-2012 08:33PM

codex1 wrote: »

I
My points are still very much intact, I have less freedom in Ireland than I do here. Sure I can buy some guns in Ireland, but not the ones I currently enjoy.

Well good for you. You pay a rate of 4 more people dead per capita not to mention countless injuries, many of which will be life changing, to have that freedom.

Blay wrote: »

Then stay in the US.

Yep. Don't come back, please.

garv123 wrote: »

Common thing here that you haven't a clue about gun control in Ireland :pac: and you start a thread about changing gun laws using outdated laws from when mullets were still a common style here :pac:

http://rockettothesun.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/dave-hester-storage-wars.jpg :pac:

codex1 · 24-08-2012 08:36PM

PieForPi wrote: »

You're absolutely grasping at straws here.

Ask them, we don't have a violent crime problem here (except Tallaght).

Having guns for home defense just means the criminals then arm themselves and become more of a threat, that they currently aren't, who go about actually harming/restraining/etc. people because they're afraid themselves that the home owner might pull a gun on them. It's a terrible situation for all involved.

Thankfully, we don't have that problem though. Our burglars are generally unarmed and just want to get in and out and run if they believe there is someone about. You basically never hear of violent confrontations with burglars and so long as guns aren't brought into the equation it will stay that way.

Yes well burglars aren't there to rob things of sentimental value, they're there to rob things they can make money off. So your argument falls straight through the ground yet again.

Oh the drama! RAPED they are! BEATEN TO DEATH they are!

No, sorry, this stuff might happen once in a blue moon but certainly not enough to justify the access to lethal weapons for home defense.

Well considering there was thousands of burglaries last year and basically none made the news, I think it's fairly safe to assume they're not there to harm people, just to...you know...rob stuff.

Oh sorry, I forgot to link to the website that criminals use to buy and sell illegal weapons here. Where are my manners!

You're talking about a brand new handgun from a retailer. You think what the few knackers who have illegal guns here are carrying is brand new from a retailer? No, they're stolen weapons or ones flown in from ****holeland that trade with the 'Ra.

Yep, and those who wish to use guns for those purposes here have no problem getting them.

You're really reaching here to be honest. You're sensationalising everything and implying massive security issues where there are none.

What it really reads of is someone who went out with one belief, was pressured into a new one and is now trying to sell others that belief, all the while really trying to convince himself that this is what he actually holds true to himself. It's desperate.

Wow - you must have one hell of an ego to make that number of assumptions about my life. You come across to me as a complete douche.

You made up a figure for how much a criminal can buy a used gun for in Ireland, yet cannot even cite a newspaper or other article. I think you are just making up "facts" to suit your argument here as you have no proof to backup what your saying & get pissy when challenged on them. You think because a gun is old and stolen its going to be cheap to buy on the streets - your now demonstrating your ignorance on this issue.

As you just admit, you think that rape & being beaten to death "once in a blue moon" is OK, sorry buddy but once is once to much. Your also OK with criminals stealing your property, I wish someone would steal your compter to prevent you vomiting hate all over the internet! Only a pasty could be so passive.

Finally as I have previously mentioned, in Ireland, I cannot buy the sporting firearms that I can own here - yet you insist, as someone who has made up "facts", lied & demonstrated ignorance surrounding firearms that I can buy them without issue back home.

Stinicker · 24-08-2012 08:37PM

I believe Gun Control laws are far too strict, Ireland is very regulated and I understand is impossible to own a hand gun legally here. In the United States they have their right to bear arms enshrined within their constitution which was drafted in 1787 after the fledgling country had fought the British establishment and won their Independence.

The 1st amendment is the freedom of Religion, the 2nd is the freedom to bear arms. Two very important issues as important back then as now.

Ireland won its freedom in similar bloody style but after losing the Civil war, restrictions started to be placed upon Gun Ownership by Fianna Fail and the anti-treaty forces. The reasoning being was to preserve power and keep them in power whilst ignoring the national question. They lost the war but won the public opinion and besmirched the reputation of Collins and the old IRA who fought and won Ireland's freedom.

The Civil War should never have happened and it was caused by the cowardice of De Valera and his refusal to accept compromise. The state has always sought since to regulate weaponry in the ROI for fear of armed rebellion firstly against themselves and also against the North. During the 1970's full fledged plans were afoot to invade Northern Ireland but lack of leadership, and weaponry saw it fail to materialise. Their was legitimate ground for invasion at the time but FF chose to preserve their own throne to the common detriment. Once again we have seen another time of great upheavel since 2008 when FF once again choose to protect their own pocket, if Ireland was properly armed like Syria or Libya with a history of gun ownership then there could have been a popular revolt and punish those in power.

Gun ownership in Ireland has thus been limited to preserve politicians and protect them from ever being held accountable to the people, this policy has also helped preserve the occupation of Northern Ireland by British forces.

crazy cabbage · 24-08-2012 08:39PM

codex1 wrote: »

I'm not getting huffy, your just being assuming not to mention rude & have not contributed anything useful here.

My points are still very much intact, I have less freedom in Ireland than I do here. Sure I can buy some guns in Ireland, but not the ones I currently enjoy.

You didn't argue my point. America has one of the higest rates of gun crime per capta. Dance are that as much as you like it will not change that. Why fix what isn't broken

AAAA the old 2nd ammement argument. The reason that america will not consider doing a u-turn on gun leglistation is becouse it would be consiered an attack on the 'bill of rights'.

video linky

^^^ do you really like haveing teens like this carrying around guns just becouse they can. will it help anyone?

Witcher · 24-08-2012 08:40PM

Stinicker wrote: »

I understand is impossible to own a hand gun legally here.

No it's not.

codex1 · 24-08-2012 08:40PM

BillyMitchel wrote: »

I agree but the not being a lunatic bit. Could anyone not just snap one day and then go all John Rambo on someone's ass?? For example NY today.

Also, have the scummers of this country not broke into numerous premises before and stole guns? If more guns were in circulation would crimes like this not increase?

I agree with storing guns safely - if a kid or criminal obtains your gun over here, your going to jail, as it should be.

I am talking about the blanket restrictions on certain models & higher caliber guns.

People don't need guns to go crazy, 9/11 happened without any of those guys carrying a single gun.

garv123 · 24-08-2012 08:40PM

Stinicker wrote: »

I believe Gun Control laws are far too strict, Ireland is very regulated and I understand is impossible to own a hand gun legally here. .

This was cleared up in the first page of the thread..

You can buy a .22 pistol that is limited to 5 shots but you must be a member of target shooting clubs.

A stupid government banned centrefire pistols in 2008 thinking it would reduce gun crime although its rare handguns were legally owned and used in gun crimes. Never heard it happen.
But if you possessed a centrefire pistol before the law in 2008 you can still legally own that pistol and buy other centrefire pistols.

codex1 · 24-08-2012 08:42PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually, where do I stand?

Gun stewardship (not just ownership, but even possessing one in your hands) is an honour and a privilege, not a right.

If you hold a gun, you must know *how* to use it.

If you hold a gun, you must know *what* it is used for.

If you hold a gun, you must know *when* you should use it.

If you hold a gun, you must know *why* you are using it.

If you hold a gun, you must know that you submit to the chance of death at another's hands.

If you do not know any of the five above, it must be drilled into you, by physical force if necessary, to reiterate how important the above is.

I know that doesn't happen today, but I think it should.

Being Steward of a Gun is a Big F*cking Deal. You do *not* f*ck around with them.

Good points, I fully agree with everything your saying.

Mike87 · 24-08-2012 08:43PM

Stinicker wrote: »

I understand is impossible to own a hand gun legally here.

Its not illegal to have one, but your limited to target pistols for target shooting. Your not going to be getting a dirty harry 44 magnum.

codex1 · 24-08-2012 08:43PM

Blay wrote: »

Then stay in the US.

Another very helpful comment from a politically disengaged troll

timeturner · 24-08-2012 08:44PM

I'm European and I spent the last 3 1/2 years living in the USA. The strict european gun laws are much better than the American stance on guns. Gun violence is far too common in the USA, and I would hate for it to become a problem here as well.

Irish Gun Control - To Strict?

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