Liverpool FC Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2012/13

opr · 22-08-2012 12:45PM

I am pie wrote: »

You are indeed confused. What I am saying is that we need to develop a brand of football which will give us a foundation for success not based on investing heavily in players developed in other clubs.

If that was the end goal then we should have put the structures in place to ensure that brand of football doesn't live and die with each manager. The kind of framework our owners wanted and completely burned for Rodgers.

Opr

Dickerty · 22-08-2012 12:45PM

Roger Sterling wrote: »

Yet he'll outscore the three of them combined.

A tenner says you are wrong!

Leiva · 22-08-2012 12:45PM

I am pie wrote: »

You are indeed confused. What I am saying is that we need to develop a brand of football which will give us a foundation for success not based on investing heavily in players developed in other clubs.

Fairly simple stuff. No need to make it about previous managers, this is about realistically where we are now and what we can do to develop. Benitez, Houllier or fcking Grame Sounness have nothing to do with what we need to do to look forward, build something sustainable and improve.

Too many fans tying themselves in knots over the dearly departed, it won't change a fcking thing. New realities are here in terms of are footballing ability and financial clout compared to clubs in and around us in the table. Time to stop pointing back to last year, the year before or the year before that. Utterly pointless !

I hear ya, I hear ya- no more looking back .

So our whole future success is in the Brendan Rodgers system basket .

Let's hope it's more Swansea FC than Reading FC

Can you not see the madness in that ?

LuckyLloyd · 22-08-2012 12:46PM

I am pie wrote: »

rarnes1 wrote: »

Style of football is great but results are more important.

We played some decent football in the first half v west brom but got whipped 3-0. I'd have taken a scrappy 1-0 all day.

Your looking at it in isolation, considering just one game. Would i rather we finished 5/6/7/8th and play the same disjointed scrappy football or would i rather we kept it, were brave and stuck to our principles and finished 10th ?

At this stage, i'd have to say 10th please. The results will follow if we develop a style of playing and educate young players around it.

Losing hurts. A 10th place finish would involve Liverpool losing more games than ever in your lifetime. The performance also gets muddied by a result - in reality it becomes very difficult to see the wood from the trees in that regard.

Lots and lots of empty rhetoric in this thread. Brendan Rodgers will survive long term by winning loads of football matches.Losses will hang him just like they did Kenny.

Chucky the tree · 22-08-2012 12:49PM

opr wrote: »

If that was the end goal then we should have put the structures in place to ensure that brand of football doesn't live and die with each manager. The kind of framework our owners wanted and completely burned for Rodgers.

Opr

FSG just have to hire someone like him if/when he leaves. Also they need to hire a new Youth Technical director who'll implement a style similar to what rodgers players with the first team.

Leiva wrote: »

I hear ya, I hear ya- no more looking back .

So our whole future success is in the Brendan Rodgers system basket .

Let's hope it's more Swansea FC than Reading FC

Can you not see the madness in that ?

Let's hope we give him more than 4 months.

Roger Sterling · 22-08-2012 12:50PM

Leiva wrote: »

I hear ya, I hear ya- no more looking back .

So our whole future success is in the Brendan Rodgers system basket .

Let's hope it's more Swansea FC than Reading FC

Can you not see the madness in that ?

The Brendan Rodgers Swansea cannot be transferred directly to Liverpool if they hope to progress.

His Swansea was set up first and foremost to not lose games IMO. A club with Liverpool's supposed ambition should be looking to win games, not merely avoid defeat.

22-08-2012 12:51PM

Benimar wrote: »

I'm sorry, I don't comment here often, but I have to take issue with this.

How do you know he hasn't addressed the issue? How do you know he hasn't bid for a number of strikers and been told to PFO?

This isn't Football Manager, we can't always get the players we want.

The Assaidi deal proved what the ITKs know, so just because they haven't got wind of something doesn't mean there isn't work going on in the background.

Also, theres 9 days left in the transfer window, so who knows what may happen in the next week or so, its not as if Man U, Spurs and Chelsea stopped buying players on July 1st as they had all their deals done.

Not aimed at you in particular, but sometimes I get the vibe that certain posters want Rodgers to fail just to be proved 'right'.

All I said was Rodgers hasn't brought in a top striker yet to score us goals. What's the problem.

Bids mean nothing, will failed bids score us goals?

Your last comment is pie in the sky and drooling talk. I won't be heading to Anfield or watching on the box hoping for a loss. I doubt any Liverpool fan in the world would.

Leiva · 22-08-2012 12:52PM

Roger Sterling wrote: »

The Brendan Rodgers Swansea cannot be transferred directly to Liverpool if they hope to progress.

His Swansea was set up first and foremost to not lose games IMO. A club with Liverpool's supposed ambition should be looking to win games, not merely avoid defeat.

And what about The Brendan Rodgers Reading ?

How did they do again ?

joe123 · 22-08-2012 12:54PM

Benimar wrote: »

I'm sorry, I don't comment here often, but I have to take issue with this.

How do you know he hasn't addressed the issue? How do you know he hasn't bid for a number of strikers and been told to PFO?

This isn't Football Manager, we can't always get the players we want.

The Assaidi deal proved what the ITKs know, so just because they haven't got wind of something doesn't mean there isn't work going on in the background.

Also, theres 9 days left in the transfer window, so who knows what may happen in the next week or so, its not as if Man U, Spurs and Chelsea stopped buying players on July 1st as they had all their deals done.

Not aimed at you in particular, but sometimes I get the vibe that certain posters want Rodgers to fail just to be proved 'right'.

Excellent post.

Dickerty · 22-08-2012 12:56PM

Just read a blog on why Sinclair should go to Liverpool instead of City. It made a lot of sense. Johnson is leaving cause he wants more games. Sinclair will end up in the very same position. He is also available for less, on lower wages, and already knows the boss well.

Probably makes too much sense, actually...

Turtyturd · 22-08-2012 12:59PM

Dickerty wrote: »

Just read a blog on why Sinclair should go to Liverpool instead of City.

Probably makes too much sense, actually...

Would people be happy with this?

22-08-2012 01:01PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

Would people be happy with this?

Swan-pool

Mr Alan · 22-08-2012 01:02PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

Would people be happy with this?

No no no no no. We should not be trying to emulate Swansea last season. We finished ahead of them.

He is not good enough. He is a decent player. That's all.

City are buying him to improve their number of homegrown players & to be a bit part player for them. That's all.

Turtyturd · 22-08-2012 01:02PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Swan-pool

Exactly, if the policy is to turn the club into Swansea I would have preferred FSG to sell up and buy Swansea.

Chucky the tree · 22-08-2012 01:05PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

Would people be happy with this?

Not sure I'd be happy but I'd have him over Adam Johnson when factoring in the cost.

Benimar · 22-08-2012 01:05PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

All I said was Rodgers hasn't brought in a top striker yet to score us goals. What's the problem.

Bids mean nothing, will failed bids score us goals?

Your last comment is pie in the sky and drooling talk. I won't be heading to Anfield or watching on the box hoping for a loss. I doubt any Liverpool fan in the world would.

You said he 'unbelievably hasn't addressed it yet'. Why is it unbelievable? He is probably trying, but just because he hasn't bought someone doesn't mean its 'unbelievable'.

Rodgers is manager of a team who finished 8th last season. Shockingly, world class strikers may not be beating down our door to play for us. Thats hardly Rodgers fault, it doesn't mean he isn't trying.

22-08-2012 01:07PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Not sure I'd be happy but I'd have him over Adam Johnson when factoring in the cost.

Johnson would certainly cost a bit with wages etc.

Every winger that comes to Anfield seems to fail miserably in the last 15-20 years.

_blank_ · 22-08-2012 01:08PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Swan-pool

Candice?

I am pie · 22-08-2012 01:09PM

Leiva wrote: »

I hear ya, I hear ya- no more looking back .

So our whole future success is in the Brendan Rodgers system basket .

Let's hope it's more Swansea FC than Reading FC

Can you not see the madness in that ?

As i said a while back , the choice of manager is certainly up for debate. My view is, he is here now, he is making the right noises and I'm prepared to give him 2 or 3 seasons to demonstrate progress. I also believe that we might see a dip in results while his methods bed in.

Dickerty · 22-08-2012 01:09PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Not sure I'd be happy but I'd have him over Adam Johnson when factoring in the cost.

Spot on. We are apparently still looking for another striker, so like Assaidi, he's a low-cost option in the wider areas. I'd rather him on the bench that Adam or Spearing, he could influence a game.

So my point was - he's a better fit for us overall.

I don't understand the precious attitude of "But he's at Swansea!" as if that automatically makes him beneath us...

Mr Alan · 22-08-2012 01:09PM

Benimar wrote: »

You said he 'unbelievably hasn't addressed it yet'. Why is it unbelievable? He is probably trying, but just because he hasn't bought someone doesn't mean its 'unbelievable'.

Rodgers is manager of a team who finished 8th last season. Shockingly, world class strikers may not be beating down our door to play for us. Thats hardly Rodgers fault, it doesn't mean he isn't trying.

Couldn't you excuse absolutely everything using this logic? "Ah sure well I'm sure he is trying!"

Rodgers task is to re-establish us as a top side. In order to do that, we need actions, not good intentions.

opr · 22-08-2012 01:09PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

FSG just have to hire someone like him if/when he leaves. Also they need to hire a new Youth Technical director who'll implement a style similar to what rodgers players with the first team.

It's not nearly as simple as that. When Rafa left the club we lost a tonne of background staff. Then we went about letting others in and out of the club based on the new managers who came in after. Lucky enough throughout all this the one thing we managed to keep constant was the youth guys. It is no coincedence this is one area of the club in pretty good shape at present. Now we have even managed to lose one of its key members. The point is you hire the manager within the already built framework so as much of this remains constant as possible when the manager changes. Not that you hire a manager with control to shape the club as he sees fit as if he doesn't work out you end up back at square one.

Opr

Fowler87 · 22-08-2012 01:10PM

Roger Sterling wrote: »

Fowler87 wrote: »

Liverpool are paying Borini ~£45k, Allen ~£40k & Assaidi ~£20k = £5.46m per season. That equates to what Spurs are paying Adebayor alone. -- LiverpoolScout (@LiverpoolScout)

Yet he'll outscore the three of them combined.

Borini, Allen and provided he contributes some of his Eredivise form, Assaidi definitely have 15-20 goals between them not to mention the assists and link up play to the team. Adebayor wont hit 20 goals this year

LuckyLloyd · 22-08-2012 01:10PM

I am pie wrote: »

As i said a while back , the choice of manager is certainly up for debate. My view is, he is here now, he is making the right noises and I'm prepared to give him 2 or 3 seasons to demonstrate progress. I also believe that we might see a dip in results while his methods bed in.

If that happens in comparison to the second half of last season you won't be writing the second sentence above in 8 weeks time.

22-08-2012 01:12PM

Benimar wrote: »

You said he 'unbelievably hasn't addressed it yet'. Why is it unbelievable? He is probably trying, but just because he hasn't bought someone doesn't mean its 'unbelievable'.

Rodgers is manager of a team who finished 8th last season. Shockingly, world class strikers may not be beating down our door to play for us. Thats hardly Rodgers fault, it doesn't mean he isn't trying.

He hasn't addressed the problem of bringing in a top striker, do I need to spell it out clearer. Forget the unblieveable, I got a touch of the Chris Kamara's while writing that.

I'm not saying he won't but I'm saying he has to.

Dickerty · 22-08-2012 01:12PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Rodgers task is to re-establish us as a top side. In order to do that, we need actions, not good intentions.

Actions like changing our style of play, bringing in three talented & young players, allowing to leave several players that don't suit his approach or are poor value to the club due to age/wages, and tying down a number of key players on new contracts?

Those sort of actions?

Chucky the tree · 22-08-2012 01:14PM

opr wrote: »

It's not nearly as simple as that. When Rafa left the club we lost a tonne of background staff. Then we went about letting others in and out of the club based on the new managers who came in after. Lucky enough throughout all this the one thing we managed to keep constant was the youth guys. It is no coincedence this is one area of the club in pretty good shape at present. Now we have even managed to lose one of its key members. The point is you hire the manager within the already built framework so as much of this remains constant as possible when the manager changes. Not that you hire a manager with control to shape the club as he sees fit as if he doesn't work out you end up back at square one.

Opr

Surely you end up back at square one when you hire a DoF who doesn't work out?

LuckyLloyd · 22-08-2012 01:15PM

opr wrote: »

It's not nearly as simple as that. When Rafa left the club we lost a tonne of background staff. Then we went about letting others in and out of the club based on the new managers who came in after. Lucky enough throughout all this the one thing we managed to keep constant was the youth guys. It is no coincedence this is one area of the club in pretty good shape at present. Now we have even managed to lose one of its key members. The point is you hire the manager within the already built framework so as much of this remains constant as possible when the manager changes. Not that you hire a manager with control to shape the club as he sees fit as if he doesn't work out you end up back at square one.

Opr

I remember that when Rodgers was hired whatawaster in particular argued with me that the structure beings set up was a key part in him being happy with the appointment and general direction. Surely the fact that they have abandoned that should be of serious concern?

The argument at the time was that Rodgers was good precisely because he wouldn't be the man over everything. Now that he is, surely everyone should be reassesing their support for his appointment?

You could argue his credentials as a coach and student of the modern game, but full control over a challenge like this? He just doesn't have the CV for it.

Dickerty · 22-08-2012 01:15PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

He hasn't addressed the problem of bringing in a top striker, do I need to spell it out clearer.

Name me 3 strikers that would not command ridiculous fees that fit the bill, are available and would join a Non-CL team...

LuckyLloyd · 22-08-2012 01:17PM

Dickerty wrote: »

Actions like changing our style of play, bringing in three talented & young players, allowing to leave several players that don't suit his approach or are poor value to the club due to age/wages, and tying down a number of key players on new contracts?

Those sort of actions?

Two of which were in his mobile phone address book, and a third which cost less than £3m.

Liverpool FC Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2012/13

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