Liverpool FC Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2012/13

Chucky the tree · 22-08-2012 11:34AM

Des wrote: »

but without a trophy, 7th could mean no europe.

which is regression

Debatable tbh. Not sure I think missing out on a competition where most Liverpool fans see as a distraction or competition where we should only play our second string and kids as a priority. Arguable finishing 7th would be perfect as it would allow us take a full crack at 4th with limited distractions.

22-08-2012 11:38AM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Mr Alan wrote: »

That means judging at the end of the season is ok? How can it be?

At the end of the 2nd season? Still a little soon surely?

At the end of the 3rd season? Probably fairer.

This is what should happen. However, it simply won't. Thinking otherwise is deluded. If we finish 7th/8th this season - Rodgers is gone.

He'll be fine if he finishes 7th. Can't see a manager being sacked for improving on last years finish.

Without a trophy it wouldn't be an improvement.

I think he needs a vast improvement on last season's league finish to convince he's the man to lead the team forward.

cloptrop · 22-08-2012 11:39AM

Any news with kd s job . Did he get let go altogether or is he doing ambassasor work or what?

22-08-2012 11:40AM

I am pie wrote: »

rarnes1 wrote: »

Style of football is great but results are more important.

We played some decent football in the first half v west brom but got whipped 3-0. I'd have taken a scrappy 1-0 all day.

Your looking at it in isolation, considering just one game. Would i rather we finished 5/6/7/8th and play the same disjointed scrappy football or would i rather we kept it, were brave and stuck to our principles and finished 10th ?

At this stage, i'd have to say 10th please. The results will follow if we develop a style of playing and educate young players around it.

Would you take 4th and scrappy football?

I would.

22-08-2012 11:41AM

cloptrop wrote: »

Any news with kd s job . Did he get let go altogether or is he doing ambassasor work or what?

Press officer at old Trafford

Kess73 · 22-08-2012 11:41AM

Gbear wrote: »

I mostly blame Comolli for the spend. He was the one brokering the deals. If he isn't at fault for overpaying for the likes of Carroll and Downing, then what was his job?

Now maybe Kenny told him to get said players "at any cost" but I have my doubts.

As for FSG's blame - they didn't allow Kenny and Comolli to waste 100m quid. It'd be a bit cheeky of them to stop us from spending money we ourselves generated from cutting the wage bill and sales and that covers most of what was spent. Were they stupid to release the 40m covering the gap? Probably. I'd say a good rule of thumb going into a new sport they knew nothing about would've been setting a limit on the spending for one window so that if they had the wrong person in place the damage would be somewhat limited.

Kenny wasn't likely to be a dynastic manager at his age. We'd have been better off giving him 1 year and telling him that he was there to stabilise things and he'd get another year if he got us CL. Otherwise, from a very early stage, we should've been looking to get in a replacement.

So if FSG and Comolli are to blame for buying the overpriced and underperforming players like Henderson, Carroll and Downing, does that mean they should be the ones getting the credit for buying Suarez and Enrique?

Seems to be a pattern well and truly in place with regards to players who cost a lot and underperformed in that the manager at the time seems to be getting only a tiny share of the blame for those players and the resident Parry, Purslow, Comolli and now FSG get the lion's share of the blame for the duds. Funny how during the same time periods the players that turn out to be cracking buys always see the credit go to the manager.

Now that is not to say that there has not been cases that say Purslow has not gone after a player over the head of a manager, but it does seem that every bad buy gets blamed mostly on anyone bar the manager.

22-08-2012 11:42AM

I would be starting Carroll not selling him, its madness. I dont buy this stuff about him being mobile, he is mobile enough. All he should do is stand on the last man and get into the box let Borini and Suarez do the running and then you have Johnson and Enrique over lapping to provide width if Suarez or Borini pull inside. Personally I think Carroll is the ideal fit for this type of system and he also greatly increases our chances of scoring at set pieces and is a very important player for defending set pieces.

Loads of ball went into the box the last day if Carroll was in there he would have stuck then two headers Suarez missed. He is also well able to operate in a tight situation in the box, i.e the goal in the F.A cup final. Its madness if Rodgers doesn't try to fit Carroll in like this imo. I will be extremely disappointed if Carroll does not get a lot of game time for us this season.

D'Agger · 22-08-2012 11:43AM

Dickerty wrote: »

Just looking at the excellent milankakabaros compilation of Assaidi over the last two seasons - to think that we got him for ONE THIRTEENTH what Chelsea paid for Hazard, and his goals/assists stats are better than half what Hazard got in a similarly competitive league, from a less central role.

It's heartwarming that we can still find a bargain in this market. Maybe our lower profile compared to City and Chelsea can be a help...

I really hope you're using a large sample size rather than just youtube videos because if you look for long enough Ryan Babel will look like the next Ronaldo.

We can't judge how good this guy is going to be until we see him play in red imo

Chucky the tree · 22-08-2012 11:43AM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Without a trophy it wouldn't be an improvement.

I think he needs a vast improvement on last season's league finish to convince he's the man to lead the team forward.

Convince who? I'm talking about the owners here. They don't really care about the Carling/Capital one cup or FA cup. They said last year the league is what matters and they have also said with Rodgers they will give him time. I think a vast improvement on points and a 7th place finish will be fine for the owners.

_blank_ · 22-08-2012 11:44AM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Without a trophy it wouldn't be an improvement.
I think he needs a vast improvement on last season's league finish to convince he's the man to lead the team forward.

It's what got Kenny in trouble, imo.

He was not convinced that the squad was good enough to finish in the European places via the league, so focussed the players on the cups. We'll never know, because the team and manager very obviously took the foot off the gas in the league last season.

Now, as a means to an end, that makes sense, and to old school fans, it appeases them somewhat. "We got a trophy and to the final of another competition".

Football is not just about trophies any more, it's about playing in the best competitions, and the CL is the cream of the crop. Getting there has to be a priority.

I do think a 7th place finish, and maybe a run to the semi finals of the three cups would be a very good season for Liverpool. It looks like a terrible season though.

No EL the season after, but a decent showing in all competitions, perhaps a little disappointed in the league, but you'd have to take that if it meant the following season was going to be a push to 4th place, and disregard the cups.

But the world of instant gratification won't allow for that, and I reckon it would be a hard sell to any potential new signings next summer "Oh, it looks like we had a bad season, but it was planned"

Roger Sterling · 22-08-2012 11:48AM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Just watching Suarez's missed chances from the weekend. He is undoubtedly our best player and most creative but his finishing is not up to scratch. If that was a top finisher we'd be 3 or 4 up at halftime and all would be different in here.

Did his finishing go backwards last season after Holland? I mean he misses easy chances after superb skill to get into that position.

It's a worrying trend considering he is our main talisman.

He certainly needs a top striker to play with to share the burden but time is running out on that front.

Maybe now we're seeing why none of the top clubs seemed to be in for him when ye were. He's a fantastic player at making opportunities and has good workrate but his finishing is sloppy to put it politely. It has been going on for a bit too long now ti be just a blip. If he's gonna be used as your central attacking threat this year then it will be more of the same frustration this year for ye as last.

cloptrop · 22-08-2012 11:49AM

rarnes1 wrote: »

I am pie wrote: »

rarnes1 wrote: »

Style of football is great but results are more important.

We played some decent football in the first half v west brom but got whipped 3-0. I'd have taken a scrappy 1-0 all day.

Your looking at it in isolation, considering just one game. Would i rather we finished 5/6/7/8th and play the same disjointed scrappy football or would i rather we kept it, were brave and stuck to our principles and finished 10th ?

At this stage, i'd have to say 10th please. The results will follow if we develop a style of playing and educate young players around it.

Would you take 4th and scrappy football?

I would.

You wont get 4th with scrappy football. Itll take a few months to get the team playing like a team who could challenge for 4th.
This sadly will probably write off a decent position this year. But if around february the team are playing great football and thumping teams 4 nil every week . I think pool supportees should realise this years position is irrelevant.
Id find a table starting from the last few months a better indicator of how the season went.
Pool could hit the ground running next
year a team on the up .
Id take that over a team still etching out 8th place finishes.
Whether br is given this time though i dont know.

Gbear · 22-08-2012 11:56AM

Kess73 wrote: »

So if FSG and Comolli are to blame for buying the overpriced and underperforming players like Henderson, Carroll and Downing, does that mean they should be the ones getting the credit for buying Suarez and Enrique?

That's correct. Again though, I said it mostly wasn't FSG's fault because the majority of the funds were generated rather than being given by FSG but it would've been more prudent for them to cap spending the first year they were in given how little they knew.

It's Kenny's fault we didn't score enough goals last season (even if it's hard to fix a problem before you know it's there). It's his fault he didn't get anything out of Carroll (although Carroll has to share that blame). It's his fault we were even looking at Downing, who would've been overpriced at 10m.

By and large, Downing and Adam aside (although the latter was cheap enough for it not to be catastrophic), we signed good players.
Maybe Kenny actually is responsible for the fees, but if he is I can't see what Comolli's role was other than scratching his arse.

22-08-2012 11:58AM

Des wrote: »

rarnes1 wrote: »

Without a trophy it wouldn't be an improvement.
I think he needs a vast improvement on last season's league finish to convince he's the man to lead the team forward.

It's what got Kenny in trouble, imo.

He was not convinced that the squad was good enough to finish in the European places via the league, so focussed the players on the cups. We'll never know, because the team and manager very obviously took the foot off the gas in the league last season.

Now, as a means to an end, that makes sense, and to old school fans, it appeases them somewhat. "We got a trophy and to the final of another competition".

Football is not just about trophies any more, it's about playing in the best competitions, and the CL is the cream of the crop. Getting there has to be a priority.

I do think a 7th place finish, and maybe a run to the semi finals of the three cups would be a very good season for Liverpool. It looks like a terrible season though.

No EL the season after, but a decent showing in all competitions, perhaps a little disappointed in the league, but you'd have to take that if it meant the following season was going to be a push to 4th place, and disregard the cups.

But the world of instant gratification won't allow for that, and I reckon it would be a hard sell to any potential new signings next summer "Oh, it looks like we had a bad season, but it was planned"

Imo a 7th place finish with no trophy would be a terrible season. I thought last season was a terrible season.

Newcastle nearly got 4th last season ffs, Liverpool should be aiming to challenge for it but unless the manager gets his finger out of his arse that ship will sail. Taking Newcastle as an example again, they had Ba and Cisse banging in goals regularly, we had misfiring strikers. Rodgers unbelievably hasn't addressed this properly yet.

acejeff · 22-08-2012 12:05PM

Louie Savory Arc wrote: »

I would be starting Carroll not selling him, its madness. I dont buy this stuff about him being mobile, he is mobile enough. All he should do is stand on the last man and get into the box let Borini and Suarez do the running and then you have Johnson and Enrique over lapping to provide width if Suarez or Borini pull inside. Personally I think Carroll is the ideal fit for this type of system and he also greatly increases our chances of scoring at set pieces and is a very important player for defending set pieces.

Loads of ball went into the box the last day if Carroll was in there he would have stuck then two headers Suarez missed. He is also well able to operate in a tight situation in the box, i.e the goal in the F.A cup final. Its madness if Rodgers doesn't try to fit Carroll in like this imo. I will be extremely disappointed if Carroll does not get a lot of game time for us this season.

For large parts of last season Carroll was sluggish, overweight and unfit, this was pretty obvious for all to see. We can only speculate as to the reasons why a highly paid footballer at one of the top clubs in england and aged just 23 could be so unfit and off the pace - the reasons touted include - too much of a beer monster, lack of application in training, missing his home cooked geordie meals. But whatever way you look at it I just don't think that in 18 months at the club Caroll has shown the dedication and professionalism to keep himself in sharpness/fitness that ought to be expected/demanded.

Chucky the tree · 22-08-2012 12:05PM

Louie Savory Arc wrote: »

I would be starting Carroll not selling him, its madness. I dont buy this stuff about him being mobile, he is mobile enough. All he should do is stand on the last man and get into the box let Borini and Suarez do the running and then you have Johnson and Enrique over lapping to provide width if Suarez or Borini pull inside. Personally I think Carroll is the ideal fit for this type of system and he also greatly increases our chances of scoring at set pieces and is a very important player for defending set pieces.

Loads of ball went into the box the last day if Carroll was in there he would have stuck then two headers Suarez missed. He is also well able to operate in a tight situation in the box, i.e the goal in the F.A cup final. Its madness if Rodgers doesn't try to fit Carroll in like this imo. I will be extremely disappointed if Carroll does not get a lot of game time for us this season.

That wasn't a tight situation. He also missed a header from six yards out in the game so I wouldn't have said he was a banker to score that second chance against Swansea.

Benimar · 22-08-2012 12:07PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Imo a 7th place finish with no trophy would be a terrible season. I thought last season was a terrible season.

Newcastle nearly got 4th last season ffs, Liverpool should be aiming to challenge for it but unless the manager gets his finger out of his arse that ship will sail. Taking Newcastle as an example again, they had Ba and Cisse banging in goals regularly, we had misfiring strikers. Rodgers unbelievably hasn't addressed this properly yet.

I'm sorry, I don't comment here often, but I have to take issue with this.

How do you know he hasn't addressed the issue? How do you know he hasn't bid for a number of strikers and been told to PFO?

This isn't Football Manager, we can't always get the players we want.

The Assaidi deal proved what the ITKs know, so just because they haven't got wind of something doesn't mean there isn't work going on in the background.

Also, theres 9 days left in the transfer window, so who knows what may happen in the next week or so, its not as if Man U, Spurs and Chelsea stopped buying players on July 1st as they had all their deals done.

Not aimed at you in particular, but sometimes I get the vibe that certain posters want Rodgers to fail just to be proved 'right'.

Dickerty · 22-08-2012 12:07PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Would you take 4th and scrappy football?

I would.

I would take 4th because the entire City of London caught the Consumption, and Everton STILL finished ahead of us.

I am pie · 22-08-2012 12:17PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Would you take 4th and scrappy football?

I would.

Meanwhile, in the real world...

22-08-2012 12:20PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

That wasn't a tight situation. He also missed a header from six yards out in the game so I wouldn't have said he was a banker to score that second chance against Swansea.

The keeper saved that rather than he missed it. He is a fantastic header of the ball, look at the goal in the euros. His poor finishing at times early last season was a lot to do with confidence. He is starting this season much fitter looking than last season. A bit of faith in him from Rodgers could go a long way in building his confidence and I reckon if given a chance he will get goals.

We also really need him for defending set pieces imo, we have too many small players on the field and we are going to get found out.

whatawaster · 22-08-2012 12:21PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Rodgers unbelievably hasn't addressed this properly yet.

What would you have done? Who would you have let go and brought in this summer?

Sappy404 · 22-08-2012 12:22PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Imo a 7th place finish with no trophy would be a terrible season. I thought last season was a terrible season.

Newcastle nearly got 4th last season ffs, Liverpool should be aiming to challenge for it but unless the manager gets his finger out of his arse that ship will sail. Taking Newcastle as an example again, they had Ba and Cisse banging in goals regularly, we had misfiring strikers. Rodgers unbelievably hasn't addressed this properly yet.

Rodgers has bought Borini and actively tried to sell Carroll to make room and funds available for a replacement striker since he's come in.

He'll get a striker if he can.

Fowler87 · 22-08-2012 12:25PM

Liverpool are paying Borini ~£45k, Allen ~£40k & Assaidi ~£20k = £5.46m per season. That equates to what Spurs are paying Adebayor alone. -- LiverpoolScout (@LiverpoolScout)

Chucky the tree · 22-08-2012 12:26PM

Louie Savory Arc wrote: »

The keeper saved that rather than he missed it. He is a fantastic header of the ball, look at the goal in the euros. His poor finishing at times early last season was a lot to do with confidence. He is starting this season much fitter looking than last season. A bit of faith in him from Rodgers could go a long way in building his confidence and I reckon if given a chance he will get goals.

We also really need him for defending set pieces imo, we have too many small players on the field and we are going to get found out.

He missed an absolute sitter against Everton in the semi-final and another one against Blackburn. It's not look his shocking form in front of goal happened only at the start of the season. Need him for defending? We're really clutching at straws now.

opr · 22-08-2012 12:31PM

Still no deal in place for Sahin with anyone.

Mourinho on Sahin move: "I just hope it happens soon for him, as it is best for him. Liverpool, Arsenal or Spurs, I have no preference."

Opr

Sappy404 · 22-08-2012 12:31PM

Fowler87 wrote: »

Liverpool are paying Borini ~£45k, Allen ~£40k & Assaidi ~£20k = £5.46m per season. That equates to what Spurs are paying Adebayor alone. -- LiverpoolScout (@LiverpoolScout)

There's also the laziness factor - he'll likely start well before turning into a liability later in the season now that his contract is secure. Can't see him getting along well with AVB either, given what we heard about his time at Chelsea.

I'd still take him though!

Leiva · 22-08-2012 12:31PM

So let me get this straight ...

People gave out about Rafas cramped controlled style that got us CL football, but will be satisfied with 7th under Rodgers once the footballing is stylish .

Ahhhh FFS

Roger Sterling · 22-08-2012 12:34PM

Fowler87 wrote: »

Liverpool are paying Borini ~£45k, Allen ~£40k & Assaidi ~£20k = £5.46m per season. That equates to what Spurs are paying Adebayor alone. -- LiverpoolScout (@LiverpoolScout)

Yet he'll outscore the three of them combined.

Sappy404 · 22-08-2012 12:34PM

opr wrote: »

Still no deal in place for Sahin with anyone.

Mourinho on Sahin move: "I just hope it happens soon for him, as it is best for him. Liverpool, Arsenal or Spurs, I have no preference."

Opr

I wonder if the Spurs reference was just thrown in to goad Arsenal into playing ball more quickly. Then again, they're about to sell Huddlestone as well as Modric.

Also, it's in the Echo that we've given up on signing him. I'd strongly suggest nobody get their hopes raised.

I am pie · 22-08-2012 12:41PM

Leiva wrote: »

So let me get this straight ...

People gave out about Rafas cramped controlled style that got us CL football, but will be satisfied with 7th under Rodgers once the footballing is stylish .

Ahhhh FFS

You are indeed confused. What I am saying is that we need to develop a brand of football which will give us a foundation for success not based on investing heavily in players developed in other clubs.

Fairly simple stuff. No need to make it about previous managers, this is about realistically where we are now and what we can do to develop. Benitez, Houllier or fcking Grame Sounness have nothing to do with what we need to do to look forward, build something sustainable and improve.

Too many fans tying themselves in knots over the dearly departed, it won't change a fcking thing. New realities are here in terms of are footballing ability and financial clout compared to clubs in and around us in the table. Time to stop pointing back to last year, the year before or the year before that. Utterly pointless !

Liverpool FC Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2012/13

Comments