Just a thought on why John F Kennedy was killed

Conas wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MLc0udf_74

The Oliver Stone film is very entertaining but it is a fabrication from beginning to end. It is worthy checking out this link where the movie if debunked point by point:

http://www.jfk-online.com/jfk100menu.html

To begin with the epileptic at the begining of that scene DID arrive at Parkland hospital:

But the individual in question hardly "vanished"; his name was Jerry Belknap, an epileptic who had suffered seizures since childhood. He was located by the FBI on May 26, 1964, and to prove his identity, he produced his receipt for the $12.50 he paid for his ambulance ride to Parkland Hospital. He explained that he had left Parkland without registering because he felt better after being given a glass of water and an aspirin. Moments later, the President's motorcade pulled into the hospital's parking lot, and Belknap realized he was not likely to see a doctor anytime soon anyway.(2)

Oliver Stone's Dealey Plaza scenario, it would seem, is off to an unfortunate start.

The back and to the left motion was caused by a combination of a bullet strike to the back of the head and explusion of tissue through the exit hole in the front top right side of the head and a neurological muscle spasm. If JFK was shot from the front and right as conspiracy theorists claim there would have been a small wound of entry on the front right of the skull and a large wound of exit in the left rear of the skull. The muscles of the neck spasmed and since the muscles at the back of the neck are more powerful than the front of the neck, the head jerked backward.
Frames 312 and 313 of the Zapruder film show that at the moment of the bullet strike the head was driven forward a few inches before the more apparent backward head snap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSWSgcuYqDo

I have already posted two videos showing volunteers firing the Mannlicher-Carcano 91/38 bolt-action rifle. Jesse Ventura is clearly pretending to have problems firing the gun.

This video shows a man on a range firing 6 shots in 5.1 secs with the same model rifle:



This video shows another gun enthusiast shooting the Mannlicher Carcano rapidly:



The Mannlicher Carcano was used by the Italian military throughout most of the 20th century and it is a good military rifle and compares well next to the Mosin-Nagant, Lee-Enfield, Mauser, Springfield and other bolt-action weapons of the period.

buried wrote: »

In fairness to myself, I never said I 'Knew things', Ive just done a lot of reading into the histories of people that were involved, mostly in the HSCA case which was a investigation performend by the U.S. government, the anti Castro, mob and far right groups that the HSCA investigated, granted the HSCA concluded most of those groups were not involved apart from individual members of organized crime who may have been involved, nonetheless that investigation opens up a lot of fascinating information and questions about that time in history and the characters involved.
And concerning the Warren Commision reports findings, the other official commitee, I do not trust the Warren Commision report whatsoever, and since many people in the establishment ( who definetly did "know things") didnt trust the Warren report, people such as Lyndon B. Johnson, Robert Kennedy, Jacqueline Kennedy, J. Edgar Hoover, Nikita Khrushchev, Charles De Gaulle, Richard Nixon, Bill Clinton, Senators Gary Hart and Richard Schweiker...if they did not believe it, why should anybody else?

I have read the Warren Commission and the evidence all points to Oswald. There is no evidence whatsoever of anyone else but Oswald being involved.
I think the physical evidence has already been discussed here at length and clearly Oswald was the only trigger man in the deaths of JFK and Tippet.
The links I have posted already have dealt with whether Oswald was involved with Shaw, Ferrie, Ruby etc and clearly he wasn't.
Oswald only came in contact with Ferrie when he was fifteen and spent a shot few months in the Civil Air Patrol.
There is no evidence whatsoever linking Shaw to Oswald.
The Garrison case was thrown out of court after an hour of jury deliberation.

I would give Oswald's brother Robert the final word:

buried wrote: »

I am confused as to what you mean by 'so what'. Are you saying that you have no opinion as to why all of these people, some that were inside the circle of events, one of them the former head of the FBI, some of them world leaders with a considerable amount of covert intelligence information, Presidents, Senators, aides to government, the absolute credible apex of the establishment, that all of these did not believe the results of the Warren Commision and you have literally no opinion on that and can also discount it as 'so what'? Especially as you so vehemently believe the Warren report yourself?

Yet no evidence has ever emerged proving Oswald had any connection with the mob, CIA, pro-Castro Cubans or any other group.
As I have already pointed out and you conveniently ignore time and time again - the physical evidence shows Oswald fired the three shots from the 6th floor window. Oswald got the job at the Book Depository through Ruth Paine's neighbour whose son worked at the building and who heard there was a vacancy. Roy Truly met the young polite ex-Marine and was impressed that he addressed him as "sir" and hired him.

You never answered my question concerning Shaw commiting perjury of the court, that is the reason you have discounted Corrie Collins testimony, would you also not discount Shaw's testimony given that he also lied to the court?

Shaw lying about involvement with the CIA proves nothing. Shaw was like thousands of other international businessmen, journalists, tourists, students and others who are regularly contacted about what they know about foreign countries by intelligence services. Nothing about Shaw indicates any involvement with Ferrie, Bannister, Ruby or Oswald.

The only reason Ferrie's name ever came up at all is because Guy Bannister got into a fight with Jack Martin after he discovered Martin had made some unauthorised long distance telephone calls from his office. Martin then saw a picture of Ferrie in the CAP with a young Oswald and made wild allegations of a conspiracy. Perry Russo was hypnotized and convinced he had seen Shaw, Ferrie and Oswald at a party. Dean Andrews under the influence of drugs contact law enforcement and claimed someone called Clay Bertrand hired him to defend Oswald.
Then Garrison claims Clay Shaw and Clay Bertrand are one and the same person!

And that's the case! I call BS on that.:rolleyes:

Madeleine Duncan Brown is lying. She never was a mistress of LBJ and her whole story is a complete fabrication.



E. Howard Hunt's confession is also a pack of lies.
He claims to be one of "three" tramps who were photographed in the custody of Dallas police.
The official records show these three men were Harold Doyle of Red Jacket, West Virginia; John F. Gredney, with no listed home address; and Gus W. Abrams, also with no listed home address.
FBI Agent Lyndal L. Shaneyfelt, a nationally-recognized expert in photoidentification and photoanalysis with the FBI photographic laboratory, had concluded from photo comparison that none of the men were Hunt or Sturgis (Hunt's alleged accomplice).

dogmax wrote: »

First of all I just want to say I always had a open mind on the assassination of President John F Kennedy and as for the Warren report I have to agree yes it is accurate in certain parts of this case, and I don't think anyone is disputing that but the other side would be right in saying that the Warren report is not a complete report, now the second investigation into the assassination of President John F Kennedy started in 1976 by the United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations, The Committee investigated until 1978 found that on the basis of the evidence available to it, that President John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy, The committee was unable to identify the other gunmen or the extent of the conspiracy, now this HSCA report was set up because of a earlier report carry out by the United States Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence (Church Committee) which started in 1975 following the Watergate scandal, this committee open up a whole can of worms in both the FBI and the CIA on a whole lot of issue including assassinations, and they also found out that both the FBI and the CIA where operating like this long before the assassination of President John F Kennedy, now some may say that the Warren report was only dealing with the assassination of President John F Kennedy and that it, well, all I can to say to that is bull****, there was already talk of a inside job as a result of a conspiracy straight after Kennedy's assassination, so all this prove to me is that the Warren report is actually a FBI and CIA report, because if the Warren report was to do there job then why did everyone have to wait over ten years to hear the truth about the FBI and the CIA, and some may say that these reports are inaccurate well if they're inaccurate then why did their own Government make changes and serious changes following the Church Committee report in 1975, changes to both the FBI and the CIA, so my conclusion is the Warren report is not a complete report, and believe me if the CIA can put dictators in power in Foreign Countries under the noses of their own people, then I wouldn't be so quick to believe the evidences that you read in the Warren report, or should I say the FBI and the CIA report, and another thing, we're talking about the Sixties here, it was a whole different time then, so try and think in that time, and please, don't reply with the conclusions of the Warren Commission still stands, thanks.

If the Warren Report is inaccurate as you claim then how was Oswald framed? Only Oswald could have written the mail order for the assassination rifle and the .38 revolver used to kill Tippett.
Oswald was photographed by Marina Oswald in their backyard posing with the rifle and revolver.
Oswald told Marina Oswald he tried to kill General Walker.
Oswald arrived on Thursday 21 Nov 1963 at the Paine house where his wife was staying rather than his habitual Friday.
The next day he rode to work with a long paper package containing "curtain rods" even though his rented room already had curtain rods and no curtains rods were ever found by cops in the Book Despository.
A paper package was found next to the sniper nest on the 6th floor and the rifle he had purchased by mail order was found on the same floor with fibres of his work shirt on the stock, fibres of the blanket it wrapped in from the Paine garage and his palm print on the dissembled barrell.
Only Oswald could have brought that rifle to work that day.
A man fitting Oswald's description was seen shooting the rifle from the 6th floor.
The bullet and two bullet fragments recovered were ballistically matched to his rifle.
The trajectories of the shot that hit Kennedy and Connally and the shot that killed JFK and wounded James Tague all originated in the 6th floor window.
Oswald was the only employee of the TSBD missing after the shooting and he was seen frantically boarding a bus which became snarled in traffic before boarding a cab to a spot after his rooming house.
He entered the house changed his clothes and put on a jacket before leaving.
Witnesses ID'd him as the man who Officer Tippet who would have heard the APB for a suspect matching Oswald's description which was taken from Howard Brennan who saw the man shoot from the 6th floor window.
When Oswald was arrested at the Texas Theatre he was carrying the .38 revolver used to kill Tippet and he tried to draw it during the struggle with the cops and kill more police officers.

So all these witnesses must be lying or have been intimidated right? All the cops must have been lying or intimidated or in on the plot right?

For Oswald not to be guilty is just laughably absurd.

The HSCA committee found no evidence whatsoever of a conspiracy except the dictabelt recording of four shots in Dealey Plaza which was later proven to be four non gunshot noises recording elsewhere and at a different time.

No rifle, no spent shells and no knoll shooter.
All the physical evidence demonstrates Kennedy was killed by shots from the TSBD.

buried wrote: »

This is a very good point and does not recieve the attention that it should IMO. The branding of Oswald as a communist sympathiser, who had recently returned from the USSR after defecting from the U.S. and then single handedly carried out the assassination, all of this had all the ingredients for a full scale incident between the United States and the USSR. But it did not occur. It did not occur because the Kennedy's had channels of communication open to the Soviets without using the CIA.

Russian historians Andrei Aleksandrovich Fursenko and Tim­o­thy Naf­tal, from their acclaimed 1997 history of the Cuban missile crisis which is based on declassified U.S and USSR documents, have a stunning piece in that book concerning the assassination.

In the book they state that one week after President Kennedy's assassination, Robert Kennedy secretly sent his friend William Walton to the KGB in Moscow, with a direct message for a KGB agent named Georgi Bolshakov. Bobby knew and trusted Bolshakov from the near apocalyptic incidents that occured between the two nations in the missile crisis. Fursenko and Naftal state that Walton informed Georgi Bolshakov that Bobby and Jacque­line believed “there was a large polit­i­cal con­spir­acy behind Oswald’s rifle” and “that Dal­las was the ideal loca­tion for such a crime.”
The Kennedys also reassured the Sovi­ets that despite Oswald’s appar­ent con­nec­tions to the com­mu­nist world, they believed Pres­i­dent Kennedy had been killed by Amer­i­can ene­mies.

This is stunning history, Robert and Jacqueline Kennedy using a close family friend, not CIA, to inform the KGB/USSR - the supposed enemy of the United States, of their own suspicions of domestic enemies being responsible for the assassination. Add to that, the KGB's own views on Oswald, considering the KGB monitored Oswald closely after he defected to the Soviet Union, according to Fursenko and Naf­tali the KGB chairman said of Oswald “I thought that this man could not pos­si­bly be the mas­ter­mind of the crime.” and “Intel­li­gence com­ing to Khrushchev in the weeks fol­low­ing the assas­si­na­tion seemed to con­firm the the­ory that a right-wing con­spir­acy had killed Kennedy.” At the same time, both the French and Cuban intelligence agencies believed the exact same theory.

“One Hell of a Gam­ble" by Alek­sandr Fursenko and Tim­o­thy Naf­tali is the book

It has been proven that Oswald ordered both the rifle used to kill JFK and the .38 by mail order in his handwriting.
As I have outlined in previous posts the final route for the JFK motorcade through Dallas which passed the TSBD was only decided upon four days before the assassination.
Oswald got the job in the TSBD a month before the assassination and he only got the job by pure chance - Ruth Paine who was putting up his wife Marina at her home heard through a neighbour that a job was going at the building and Oswald was interviewed by Roy Truly who gave him the job.
Shirt fibres from Oswald's workshirt, blanket fibres from the blanket in the Paine garage the gun was wrapped in and Oswald's palm print were found on the rifle. Oswald's clipboard was also stashed behind boxes.
Howard Brennan's description of the assassin he saw fire three shots from the 6th floor window matches Oswald.
The CE399 bullet from Governor Connally's stretcher at Parkland Hospital and two recovered bullet fragments recovered from the limousine were matched to the gun.
Oswald was seen shooting Officer Tippitt and he was also carrying the .38 revolver used in the murder.

How do explain all this evidence against Oswald?
How could any of it possibly have been fabricated?

You aren't going to trot out a farcical story about men in black running around with invisibility suits or time machines changing evidence around?

buried wrote: »

Yes, because thats what I have done...:rolleyes: Good lord Snafuk, I think you need to relax a bit, I was merely sharing a source with another member who is interested in the history, a reliable source from credible historians who have stated who Bobby Kennedy, Jacqueline Kennedy, Khruschev, the KGB, the French and Cuba Intelligence agencies believed the assassins to be.
I mean, maybe you should take it up with those intelligence agencies how convinced you are it was Oswald, they are the ones who state that they do not believe Oswald acted alone, maybe you can convince them too?

We have already been over this.
You can read my posts again where the evidence has been gone through.
Oswald got the job because Ruth Paine told him about it and he arranged to meet Roy Truly who interviewed him and gave him the job a month before JFK's Texas trip. The motorcade route past the TSBD was only decided four days before the assassination.
So tell me please how the conspirators could have arranged that?
Were they clairvoyants?