Just a thought on why John F Kennedy was killed

dogmax · 29-07-2012 09:29PM #1

Okay to be honest I don't think anyone will ever know the truth about the assassination of JFK but I'm interest in anyone views on the reason why he was kill, I know some will probably say that Lee Harvey Oswald was a nutcase and a lone assassin, but did he really work alone, so I'm going to look at this from another angle, and I like to hear your view or even your own idea on this.

So try this, 20 years before JFK was kill the world was at war, the allies with the help of the Soviet army thankfully defeated Hitler, but then fast forward to the year 1961 when a young man by the name of John F Kennedy became the 35th president of the united states of America, and while Europe and the Soviet Union where still recovering from that mad war, America was growing stronger and stronger, but what made president John F Kennedy difference was the fact that he wasn't a yes man, and I'm sure there where a few old military minds that didn't like him one bit.

Now we move over to Europe and the Berlin wall, and as we all know now there where secret meeting going on between the Soviet military and the American military, you can have this I take that we can't do that deal but we can do this one and so on, and all at a time of peace, but then in October 1962 the world face the awful possibility of another war, a nuclear war, because of the Cuban missile crisis, but thankfully the Soviet Union did a u turn which they must have hated, now imagine what the conversation between the old military minds from both sides would have been during those secret meeting, and what if months later some of those military minds from both sides finally came to a understanding that this young President, was actually the most dangerous man in the world, and he was practically guarantee a second term.

The Soviets military minds wanted their revenge and the American military minds wanted their yes man, and neither side wanted the threat of Nuclear War hanging over them, because no one win in a Nuclear War, Lee Harvey Oswald was eventually pick and what the Soviets needed from those who where willing to work with them on the American side, was the freedom for their man to get into his place take aim and fire, there was probably another shooter just in case Oswald missed, but he didn't, the soviets military got their revenge and the American military got their yes man, Lyndon B Johnson. anyone any thoughts on this, thanks.

Owryan · 29-07-2012 09:39PM

stop shouting at me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kippure · 29-07-2012 10:17PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHBrMCk2YXk

This will put a differant veiw on the jfk killing. He was killed in my veiw as he was about to expose a secert goverment, NWO.

dogmax · 29-07-2012 10:34PM

yes military secert goverment

snafuk35 · 03-08-2012 01:18PM

The JFK case is open and shut.
Three shots were fired by Lee Harvey Oswald from the 6th floor window of the Texas School Book Depository which was above behind and to the right of the Presidential limousine carrying JFK in the backseat and the second shooting victim Governor Connolly in a jump seat that was lower and several inches inboard of Kennedy.
JFK was hit in the back of the neck to the right of the spine by one of the first two bullets. The slug exited the base of his windpipe traveling downward and to the left striking Connally in the upper back, exited his right chest, smashed the wrist of his right hand which was holding his stetson in his lap and lodged in the flesh of his left thigh.
A third shot struck Kennedy in the back of the head and exited the front right top side of his skull creating a fatal wound.
The trajectory of the fatal shots had their origin in the 6th floor window and two large bullet fragments recovered from the limousine and nearly whole bullet at Parkland Hospital were ballistically matched to Oswald's rifle.
Three shells were found near the 6th floor window and matched to Oswald's gun.
Fibres of Oswald's shirt, fibres of a blanket used to wrap the gun when it was stored in the garage of Ruth Paine and Oswald's palm print were found on the gun.
The rifle had been purchased by A Hidell, a habitual alias of Oswald, by a mail order written in Oswald's hand.
Oswald carried a long paper package to work that morning after spending the night of 21 November at the Paine household.
Photos taken by Oswald's Russian born wife show him posing with the rifle and with a .38 revolver used to kill Officer Tippett of the Dallas PD. After Oswald was arrested in the Texas Theatre he had been carrying the .38 and the spent casings at the scene were matched to his weapon.
Oswald was guilty as hell.
The guy acted alone - there is absolutely no evidence that he conspired with anyone else in the killing of JFK.

dogmax · 03-08-2012 08:07PM

Ease back snafuk35, I never said Lee Harvey Oswald didn't fire the shots that kill JFK what I did say was, let look at this from another angle, there's a awful lot of **** going on in this world of our and it all starts from a old saying (the corridors of power) would you agree on that point at least, that if you fully understand that old saying.

[Jackass] · 04-08-2012 01:26AM

JFK's killing isn't really all that complicated. I think there's little doubt in anyone's mind that Oswald fired the shots. That much is pretty conclusive fact, and the circumstances match the theory. There was no other shooter. The real question is why? and why was Oswald killed by a mob hitman with little or no alligence to Kennedy or the USA or even civility, immediately after.

Many theories exist. JFK was hated by many in the CIA and millitary for his stance on Vietnam, and he didn't authorise certain support to troops that supposedly added to casualties. Also, s with George W. Bush, the arms trade in America is the reason America goes to war, not to "free" anybody....in fact, American arms trades arm rougue nations, then attack them for being dangerous, thus keeping this massive and hugely influential industry in business...there's no question that Oswald was a hired hitman, and no question he did it, the question is who put him up to it and why...we'll never know, because he was silenced forever soon after..

The real conspieracy is Bobby Kennedy, who was killed by a CIA agent caught on camera, and he was shot from behind and from point blank range to the right temple, and not from in front and from 10 feet, where his supposed assasian was standing. Also, the "killer" has been confirmed from multiple psychological profilers as being programmed and having no genuine memory of the event....probably the same people behind that, but given the professionalism and skills involved, it is virtually certain that both killings were carried out by american secret service.

[Jackass] · 04-08-2012 01:29AM

snafuk35 · 04-08-2012 09:19AM

dogmax wrote: »

Ease back snafuk35, I never said Lee Harvey Oswald didn't fire the shots that kill JFK what I did say was, let look at this from another angle, there's a awful lot of **** going on in this world of our and it all starts from a old saying (the corridors of power) would you agree on that point at least, that if you fully understand that old saying.

Oswald acted alone. There is no evidence of any one else being involved.
He simply happened to be working in the TSBD and the route of the motorcade passed the building. So he headed over to where his wife was staying a day earlier to get the rifle stored on the garage took it to work and shot JFK on his lunch break. That case is that banal. A nonentity shot a great man of history. Oswald reveled in the notoriety until Ruby shot him and ended his moment of fame and recognition.

snafuk35 · 04-08-2012 09:26AM

[Jackass] wrote: »

JFK's killing isn't really all that complicated. I think there's little doubt in anyone's mind that Oswald fired the shots. That much is pretty conclusive fact, and the circumstances match the theory. There was no other shooter. The real question is why? and why was Oswald killed by a mob hitman with little or no alligence to Kennedy or the USA or even civility, immediately after.

Ruby admired JFK and Jackie Kennedy and he shot dead Oswald because he was paranoid that Jews would be blamed and wanted to demonstrate Jews could be patriotic and to spare Jackie the ordeal of testifying in court.

Many theories exist. JFK was hated by many in the CIA and millitary for his stance on Vietnam, and he didn't authorise certain support to troops that supposedly added to casualties. Also, s with George W. Bush, the arms trade in America is the reason America goes to war, not to "free" anybody....in fact, American arms trades arm rougue nations, then attack them for being dangerous, thus keeping this massive and hugely influential industry in business...there's no question that Oswald was a hired hitman, and no question he did it, the question is who put him up to it and why...we'll never know, because he was silenced forever soon after..

Do you expect anyone to believe that the government would hire a nut like Oswald and instead of having a car ready to pick him and presumeably drive him into the weeds where a fresh hole was dug he would be wandering the street flagging down buses and cabs with $13 dollars in his pockets? Who would hire this guy? He was a barely literate bum who drifted from dead end job to dead end job and was socially inept.

The real conspieracy is Bobby Kennedy, who was killed by a CIA agent caught on camera, and he was shot from behind and from point blank range to the right temple, and not from in front and from 10 feet, where his supposed assasian was standing. Also, the "killer" has been confirmed from multiple psychological profilers as being programmed and having no genuine memory of the event....probably the same people behind that, but given the professionalism and skills involved, it is virtually certain that both killings were carried out by american secret service.

Bobby was killed by Sirhan Sirhan in front of scores of witnesses. He was wrestled onto a pantry table and disarmed. All of the bullets fired came from his gun. The trajectory of the shots demonstrate that Kennedy was shot when he was turned away from Sirhan. Sirhan, from a Palestinian Christian background, killed him because Bobby was supportive of Israel which had recently conquered the Paestinian territories in a recent war.

dogmax · 04-08-2012 01:43PM

Well thanks snafuk35 you certainly open up this thread but I have to repeat myself just to hear your views on this, (there's a awful lot of **** going on in this world of our and it all starts from a old saying (the corridors of power) would you agree on that point at least, that's if you fully understand that old saying) now snafuk35 I'm not saying what your saying is wrong, but what I am saying is what the great mad Irish Man in that great movie Braveheart said (YES FATHER! The almighty says: "Don't change the subject, just answer the ****in' question") the same question applies to everyone else, THANKS.

Dude111 · 04-08-2012 06:34PM

Kippure wrote:

This will put a differant veiw on the jfk killing. He was killed in my veiw as he was about to expose a secert goverment, NWO.

Thank you..

YES he didnt want to go along with thier plans from what i have been reading on it over the years......

Treora · 04-08-2012 07:17PM

snafuk35 wrote: »

The JFK case is open and shut.

Dude, you post on a conspiracy forum something as close minded as that and everyone will think that you are one off four things: a right wing extremist, a big pharma research case, a card carrying sock puppet or a malware bot.

My money is on a bot. It is due to the force of convinction and the need to have others think a certain way on a topic that no one trusts. You talk in certainties of things as though you have had personal conversations with LHO but offer no links from verifiable unbiased sources to support your claims. There is no critical reasoning to your statements it is a sort of willful ignorance and a zealotry only seen in an extremist. So I think you are a bot modelled on an extremist. :eek:

No offence if you are not, it is just how you appear from your comments.

dogmax · 04-08-2012 07:35PM

Couldn't have put it better myself Treora, spot on

Carra23 · 04-08-2012 09:59PM

Owryan wrote: »

stop shouting at me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That made me laugh out loud ! priceless

snafuk35 · 05-08-2012 03:26PM

Treora wrote: »

Dude, you post on a conspiracy forum something as close minded as that and everyone will think that you are one off four things: a right wing extremist, a big pharma research case, a card carrying sock puppet or a malware bot.

My money is on a bot. It is due to the force of convinction and the need to have others think a certain way on a topic that no one trusts. You talk in certainties of things as though you have had personal conversations with LHO but offer no links from verifiable unbiased sources to support your claims. There is no critical reasoning to your statements it is a sort of willful ignorance and a zealotry only seen in an extremist. So I think you are a bot modelled on an extremist. :eek:

No offence if you are not, it is just how you appear from your comments.

Oswalds entire life has been put under the microscope so much so that we know nearly all his movements day by day from birth to death. Oswald acted alone when he learned Russian, he acted alone when he saved up money to travel to Russia in order to defect, when he returned to the US after becoming disillusioned with the Soviet Union he acted alone when he purchased a bolt action rifle and revolver by mail order, he acted alone when he attempted to shot General Walker, he acted alone when he set up his own chapter of the Fair Play For Cuba Committee, he acted alone when he appeared on local radio, he acted alone when he attempted to emigrate to Cuba and he acted alone when he shot and killed JFK and shot and killed Officer Tippett. There is no evidence that Oswald was anything other than a pathetic loner with no friends.
His chaotic aimless existence, his amateurism, his mental instability etc etc. hard recommend him as a suitable candidate for recruitment by conspirators who want to kill the President.

buried · 05-08-2012 03:29PM

Anyone interedted in the JFK assasination should look into the CIA asassination squad, that was known as 'Operation 40', a covert undercover operation that was active in the U.S and Central America in the early 60's. High ranking members of Operation 40 included Frank Sturgis, convicted for the Watergate burglary in 1973 and investigated by a Commision of the U.S Congress in 1974 for allegations that Sturgis and E. Howard Hunt were present in Dallas on the 22nd of November 1963 as rogue CIA operatives and could have fired the alleged shots from the grassy knoll at Dealey Plaza. The FBI also investigated allegations of a meeting between Sturgis and Lee Harvey Oswald in Florida, a few weeks before Kennedy's assasination.

Another member of Operation 40 was Barry Seal, A CIA pilot, who took part in Civil Air Patrol (CAP) training missions with a New Orleans unit that was run by David Ferrie, and according to fellow CAP member John Odom, Seal met Oswald during those training missions. Seal's own wife Deborah claimed that "Barry Seal flew the getaway plane out of Dallas after JFK was killed". Seal later became a drug smuggler in the 80's for the Columbian Medellin Cartel, running shipments of cocaine into Arkansas and was later assasinated himself by the Columbian Cartel when they discovered he was a CIA / DEA informant.

'Operation 40' were heavily involved as operatives at the Bay of Pigs invasion. Barry Seal is alleged to have flown in small elite tactical squads of OP 40 before the failed invasion. After the failure Kennedy declared he would "splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds", while the members of Operation 40 blamed Kennedy for betraying the anti Castro Cubans and ultimately humiliating the U.S. Many people believe the events around the Bay of Pigs invasion had a lot to do with JFK's assasination. Even Richard Nixon made what seemed to be a veiled threat to the head of the CIA Richard Helms via H.R. Haldeman in order to coax the CIA chief to help him with Watergate : “The president asked me to tell you this entire (Watergate) affair may be connected to the Bay of Pigs, and if it opens up, the Bay of Pigs may be blown.” Haldeman believed himself that 'Bay of Pigs' was meant to be a codeword for something to do with the CIA, Castro and Kennedy's murder.

Just even to look up the likes of Sturgis, Seal and the CIA backed, paramilitary OP 40 for yourself makes for very interesting, albeit disturbing, reading. Daniel Hopsicker's book "Barry & the boys" is a good place to start.

snafuk35 · 05-08-2012 03:45PM

buried wrote: »

Anyone interedted in the JFK assasination should look into the CIA asassination squad, that was known as 'Operation 40', a covert undercover operation that was active in the U.S and Central America in the early 60's. High ranking members of Operation 40 included Frank Sturgis, convicted for the Watergate burglary in 1973 and investigated by a Commision of the U.S Congress in 1974 for allegations that Sturgis and E. Howard Hunt were present in Dallas on the 22nd of November 1963 as rogue CIA operatives and could have fired the alleged shots from the grassy knoll at Dealey Plaza. The FBI also investigated allegations of a meeting between Sturgis and Lee Harvey Oswald in Florida, a few weeks before Kennedy's assasination.

Another member of Operation 40 was Barry Seal, A CIA pilot, who took part in Civil Air Patrol (CAP) training missions with a New Orleans unit that was run by David Ferrie, and according to fellow CAP member John Odom, Seal met Oswald during those training missions. Seal's own wife Deborah claimed that "Barry Seal flew the getaway plane out of Dallas after JFK was killed". Seal later became a drug smuggler in the 80's for the Columbian Medellin Cartel, running shipments of cocaine into Arkansas and was later assasinated himself by the Columbian Cartel when they discovered he was a CIA / DEA informant.

'Operation 40' were heavily involved as operatives at the Bay of Pigs invasion. Barry Seal is alleged to have flown in small elite tactical squads of OP 40 before the failed invasion. After the failure Kennedy declared he would "splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds", while the members of Operation 40 blamed Kennedy for betraying the anti Castro Cubans and ultimately humiliating the U.S. Many people believe the events around the Bay of Pigs invasion had a lot to do with JFK's assasination. Even Richard Nixon made what seemed to be a veiled threat to the head of the CIA Richard Helms via H.R. Haldeman in order to coax the CIA chief to help him with Watergate : “The president asked me to tell you this entire (Watergate) affair may be connected to the Bay of Pigs, and if it opens up, the Bay of Pigs may be blown.” Haldeman believed himself that 'Bay of Pigs' was meant to be a codeword for something to do with the CIA, Castro and Kennedy's murder.

Just even to look up the likes of Sturgis, Seal and the CIA backed, paramilitary OP 40 for yourself makes for very interesting, albeit disturbing, reading. Daniel Hopsicker's book "Barry & the boys" is a good place to start.

Nonetheless the evidence clearly shows that Oswald bought a rifle and revolver by mail order under the habitual pseudonym A. Hidell. He stored the rifle in the garage of the Paine household where Marina Oswald stayed with her children and .38 at his rooming house. On Fridays Oswald usually took a ride with a work colleague to the residence but instead on Thursday 21 November was a day early. He spent the night with Marina, left behind his wedding band and most of the money he owned, took a ride to work with his colleague with a long paper package in the backseat. He hurried ahead of his colleague carrying the package he claimed curtain rods once they parked near his workplace.

Oswald last seen before the assassination by Charles Givens on the 6th floor of the Book Despository. A man matching his description was seen by Howard Brennan shooting at JFK.
Oswald left the TSBD, got on a bus, left it when it got snarled in traffic, took a cab ordered the cab to stop a few blocks from his rooming house, went in got his jacket and revolver and left. Witnesses later saw him shoot a cop and when was arrested at a movie theatre he was carrying the murder weapon which he attempted to use to shoot police officers before he was overpowered.

The wounds to Kennedy and Connally clearly indicate two shots struck home. Most witnesses heard three shots and believe they came from the Book Depository. Oswald's mail order rifle with fibres of his shirt and fibres of the blanket it was wrapped in the Ruth Paine garage and his palm print were found on the gun.

A kook shot the President.

Rasheed · 05-08-2012 04:24PM

Nobody knows exactly what happened that day but we can't just accept what the Warren report said, even if some of us refuse to look at further evidence.

The single bullet? this bullet supposedly went through 15 layers of clothing, 7 layers of skin, and approximately 15 inches of tissue, struck a necktie knot, removed 4 inches of rib, and shattered a radius bone.

The Gun? Two separate sheriffs said the gun the found in the book depository was a 7.65 Mauser. Oswald never owned a Mauser so it suddenly changed to the Carcano. Maybe the sheriffs made a mistake?

These are parts that have question marks.

What about the witnesses that claimed they heard shots ffrom the grassy knoll? 51 to be precise.

Why did Kennedys head shoot backwards if he was hit from the back?
His back brace?

Why were witnesses intimadated during the Warren Commision?

What about the 'confession' of E. Howard Hunt, one of the three tramps, amongst others? This happened on his death bad. He was a CIA operative.

What happened Kennedys brain?

And then if Oswald did act alone, why? My best guess is a mafia connection but we'll never know.

enno99 · 05-08-2012 04:54PM

Well worth exploring Mae's research

Mae Brussell,the Queen of Conspiracy Research...

By the time President Kennedy was murdered in 1963, Mae was married with five kids. Hardly satisfied with the Warren Commission Report on the assassination, Mae bought herself as a Christmas present the 26 volume Warren Commission testimonies and began reading, filing and cross-indexing. Not only did she find connections to high level government officials, the CIA, Germany, the Hughes organization, and organized crime (to name a few), but began to see relationships to many other current and past events throughout the world.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA3AE1666479EF849&feature=plcp

The Last Words of Lee Harvey Oswald

Determined to learn Oswald's last words, his only testimony, The People's Almanac assigned one of the leading authorities on the Kennedy assassination, Mae Brussell, to compile every known statement or remark made by Oswald between his arrest and death. The quotes, edited for space and clarity, are based on the recollections of a variety of witnesses present at different times and are not verbatim transcripts. "After 14 years of research on the JFK assassination," Mae Brussell concludes, "I am of the opinion that Lee Harvey Oswald was telling the truth about his role in the assassination during these interrogations."

http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%20Articles/Last%20Words%20of%20Lee%20Oswald.html

http://www.maebrussell.com/

snafuk35 · 05-08-2012 06:07PM

Rasheed wrote: »

Nobody knows exactly what happened that day but we can't just accept what the Warren report said, even if some of us refuse to look at further evidence.

Have you read the Warren Report? Most people who dispute the official version of events have not actually read the Warren Report.

The single bullet? this bullet supposedly went through 15 layers of clothing, 7 layers of skin, and approximately 15 inches of tissue, struck a necktie knot, removed 4 inches of rib, and shattered a radius bone.

There is nothing at all unusual about a bullet doing just that.
The Discovery Channel recreated the shot for a documentary:

The Gun? Two separate sheriffs said the gun the found in the book depository was a 7.65 Mauser. Oswald never owned a Mauser so it suddenly changed to the Carcano. Maybe the sheriffs made a mistake?

This still clearly shows the rifle discovered on the 6th floor was a Mannlicher-Carcano

What about the witnesses that claimed they heard shots ffrom the grassy knoll? 51 to be precise.

Dealey Plaza was an open area surrounded by high buildings so there is nothing unusual about people thinking they heard shots from other locations. There is no evidence whatsoever of a shot or shots from the grassy knoll.

Why did Kennedys head shoot backwards if he was hit from the back?
His back brace?

This has been explained as the "jet effect" first described by Nobel prize physicist Dr. Luis Alvarez, a good friend of JFK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzyw7AcHbuY

Why were witnesses intimadated during the Warren Commision?

None of the witnesses were intimidated.

What about the 'confession' of E. Howard Hunt, one of the three tramps, amongst others? This happened on his death bad. He was a CIA operative.

The three tramps were Gus W. Abrams, Harold Doyle, and John F. Gedney. and this is verified by the November 22, 1963 arrest records that the Dallas Police Department released in 1989.

What happened Kennedys brain?

There is strong evidence to suggest the brain was deliberately destroyed by Robert F. Kennedy, the President's brother to avoid it become a macabre exhibit on the murder of the century.

And then if Oswald did act alone, why? My best guess is a mafia connection but we'll never know.

Surely if the mafia hired Oswald they would have had someone in a car waiting to pick him up and drive him into the weeds where a .38 slug and a fresh hole in the ground were waiting for him? Why would he be allowed the wander the streets flagging down a bus and a cab with a few $ in his pockets?

Rasheed · 05-08-2012 07:33PM

snafuk35 wrote: »

Have you read the Warren Report? Most people who dispute the official version of events have not actually read the Warren Report.

Ah, I was only posing questions, I don't know what happened that day. No I didnt read the Warren report, You must have, fair dues.

There is nothing at all unusual about a bullet doing just that.
The Discovery Channel recreated the shot for a documentary

The magic bullet was pristine bar distortment on the bottom after going through all that cloth, tissue and bone. Im no ballistics expert, maybe thats possible. Some experts say there were too much bullet fragment in Connolly to be that bullet in the trolley. Thanks for the link though, it's a good one.

This still clearly shows the rifle discovered on the 6th floor was a Mannlicher-Carcano

RifleFoundInTSBDFromAlyeaFilm-2.jpg?t=1274598008

So perhaps the two sheriffs did make a mistake with the rifle, fair enough.

Dealey Plaza was an open area surrounded by high buildings so there is nothing unusual about people thinking they heard shots from other locations. There is no evidence whatsoever of a shot or shots from the grassy knoll.
This has been explained as the "jet effect" first described by Nobel prize physicist Dr. Luis Alvarez, a good friend of JFK

Good points about the 'jet effect' and the noise of the shots, still not convinced on the high buildings distorting the sound of shots though that nearly half the witnesses heard bullet shots from the exact same place.

None of the witnesses were intimidated.

Witnesses were intimidated.
http://dealeyintimidation.tripod.com/index.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination_conspiracy_theories

The three tramps were Gus W. Abrams, Harold Doyle, and John F. Gedney. and this is verified by the November 22, 1963 arrest records that the Dallas Police Department released in 1989.

I still wonder about E. Howard Hunts confession though. Why would he do that?

There is strong evidence to suggest the brain was deliberately destroyed by Robert F. Kennedy, the President's brother to avoid it become a macabre exhibit on the murder of the century.

Why would the brain become an exhibit? It surely would be buried with him.

Surely if the mafia hired Oswald they would have had someone in a car waiting to pick him up and drive him into the weeds where a .38 slug and a fresh hole in the ground were waiting for him? Why would he be allowed the wander the streets flagging down a bus and a cab with a few $ in his pockets?

And why would the mafia care what happened to Oswald? How do you know they wernt suppose to pick him up but didn't? I'm only being devils advocate here.

buried · 06-08-2012 02:45AM

snafuk35 wrote: »

Nonetheless the evidence clearly shows that Oswald bought a rifle and revolver by mail order under the habitual pseudonym A. Hidell. He stored the rifle in the garage of the Paine household where Marina Oswald stayed with her children and .38 at his rooming house. On Fridays Oswald usually took a ride with a work colleague to the residence but instead on Thursday 21 November was a day early. He spent the night with Marina, left behind his wedding band and most of the money he owned, took a ride to work with his colleague with a long paper package in the backseat. He hurried ahead of his colleague carrying the package he claimed curtain rods once they parked near his workplace.

Oswald last seen before the assassination by Charles Givens on the 6th floor of the Book Despository. A man matching his description was seen by Howard Brennan shooting at JFK.
Oswald left the TSBD, got on a bus, left it when it got snarled in traffic, took a cab ordered the cab to stop a few blocks from his rooming house, went in got his jacket and revolver and left. Witnesses later saw him shoot a cop and when was arrested at a movie theatre he was carrying the murder weapon which he attempted to use to shoot police officers before he was overpowered.

The wounds to Kennedy and Connally clearly indicate two shots struck home. Most witnesses heard three shots and believe they came from the Book Depository. Oswald's mail order rifle with fibres of his shirt and fibres of the blanket it was wrapped in the Ruth Paine garage and his palm print were found on the gun.

A kook shot the President.

I agree, there is absolutly no doubt that Oswald was involved. He was clearly a violent psychotic man but when you start to look at allegations that he was involved with Sturgis and Seal, and those allegations, actually being investigated by Government departments, allegations from sources who knew the likes of Sturgis and Seal, it opens up a lot of questions about that time in history and the forces that were behind such events such as Cuba. It just doesnt appear to be as simple an explanation of 'one lone maniac shot the President', maybe it is, but after reading about those other psychotic men, who were known to have connections with Oswald and greivences with Kennedy, I just do not believe the lone gunman explanation to be the case.

Tipsy McSwagger · 06-08-2012 09:16AM

The thoughts of Ruby being a hitman for the mafia is the funniest part of the whole conspiracy.

snafuk35 · 06-08-2012 10:08AM

Rasheed wrote: »

Ah, I was only posing questions, I don't know what happened that day. No I didnt read the Warren report, You must have, fair dues.

The magic bullet was pristine bar distortment on the bottom after going through all that cloth, tissue and bone. Im no ballistics expert, maybe thats possible. Some experts say there were too much bullet fragment in Connolly to be that bullet in the trolley. Thanks for the link though, it's a good one.

The CE399 bullet had a damaged nose and was flattened in cross section. It passed through the flesh of Kennedy's neck without directly striking the spine. It was moving much more slowly and yawing as it passed through Connolly's body. It struck Connally's fifth rib side on smashing four inchs of bone when it was travelling sideways which explains the cross section distortion. At low speeds in tests it was found that the bullet could strike a radiius bone without being mangled as it would be at high speeds.

So perhaps the two sheriffs did make a mistake with the rifle, fair enough.

No perhaps. The Alyea film of the police search in the 6th floor clearly shows that the rifle recovered was a Mannlicher-Carcano. The chain of evidence from discover of the weapon to the crime lab is completely documented. The only way the weapon could have been a Mauser and substituted by a Mannlicher Carcano is if the whole DPD, the FBI and the Secret Service were in on the plot.
Why would the conspirators go to the trouble of shooting JFK with a Mauser in the first place?

Good points about the 'jet effect' and the noise of the shots, still not convinced on the high buildings distorting the sound of shots though that nearly half the witnesses heard bullet shots from the exact same place.

Witnesses on the knoll neither saw nor heard any gunman who would have to be standing only feet away (why would an assassin take such a risk?). No rifle was found, no bullet were found and no photos or films of the knoll during the shooting show any person shooting from behind the fence.

Witnesses were intimidated.
http://dealeyintimidation.tripod.com/index.htm

Jim Marrs book Crossfire is full of deliberate lies.

I still wonder about E. Howard Hunts confession though. Why would he do that?

Who knows? All the phyisical evidence points to Oswald acting alone.

Why would the brain become an exhibit? It surely would be buried with him.

The brains and mortal remains of other leaders have become macabre exhibits.

And why would the mafia care what happened to Oswald? How do you know they wernt suppose to pick him up but didn't? I'm only being devils advocate here.

So a group of conspirators would take the risk of Oswald being arrested and exposing them all?

Rasheed · 06-08-2012 11:27AM

snafuk35 wrote: »

Witnesses on the knoll neither saw nor heard any gunman who would have to be standing only feet away (why would an assassin take such a risk?). No rifle was found, no bullet were found and no photos or films of the knoll during the shooting show any person shooting from behind the fence.

Photographic evidence shows people didnt react straight away. For at least ten to 30 seconds, maybe enough time to blend in? And what about badgeman? Was it a man seen on Mary Moormans photo?

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/07e89e05848e.jpg

Jim Marrs book Crossfire is full of deliberate lies.

That is not the only source that claims witnesses were intimadated. Apart from the wikipedia article in my last post, Jean Hill claimed that the FBI attempted to humiliate, discredit, and intimidate her into changing her story. According to Sloan, who wrote Jeans biography, Hill also indicated she had been abused by Secret Service agents, harassed by the FBI, and was the recipient of death threats.

The Newman family that were probably the closest to the murder were apparently never even interviewed for the Warren Commission.
http://static.environmentalgraffiti.com/sites/default/files/images/Newman_Family_1.jpg

Who knows? All the phyisical evidence points to Oswald acting alone.

All physical evidence that was released. James Files also confessed. Carlos Marcello, mafia boss in Texas admitted he ordered it. They could be all lying but we don't know.

The brains and mortal remains of other leaders have become macabre exhibits.

I don't understand you here. Kennedys body was never publically exhibited so his brain wouldn't be either.

So a group of conspirators would take the risk of Oswald being arrested and exposing them all?

Oswald left the TBDS, got a bus for two blocks, got a taxi, went past the bus station, when to his house and ended up in the theatre. Why didn't he run when he had ample time? Maybe he was waiting for someone.

So when you read the Warren Commission report, has any evidence you might have read since made you doubt it?Did you read the report that The United States House Select Committee on Assassinations did in 1979?

snafuk35 · 06-08-2012 08:48PM

Rasheed wrote: »

Photographic evidence shows people didnt react straight away. For at least ten to 30 seconds, maybe enough time to blend in? And what about badgeman? Was it a man seen on Mary Moormans photo?

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/07e89e05848e.jpg

An assassin is going to stand waiting behind a picket fence with a rifle with dozens of witnesses around some of them only feet away and open fire?

That is not the only source that claims witnesses were intimadated. Apart from the wikipedia article in my last post, Jean Hill claimed that the FBI attempted to humiliate, discredit, and intimidate her into changing her story.

Jean Hill has changed her version of events dozens of times over the years. In her original testimony she claimed she saw a little dog in the back seat of the limosine.

The Newman family that were probably the closest to the murder were apparently never even interviewed for the Warren Commission.
http://static.environmentalgraffiti.com/sites/default/files/images/Newman_Family_1.jpg

The Newmans were interviewed. Google it.

All physical evidence that was released.

All the evidence was released.

James Files also confessed. Carlos Marcello, mafia boss in Texas admitted he ordered it. They could be all lying but we don't know.

If you got together all the people conspiracy theorist claim shot JFK then you have an entire rifle company firing at JFK from behind the picket fence.

I don't understand you here. Kennedys body was never publically exhibited so his brain wouldn't be either.

I presume the brain was destroyed or buried with JFK by the Kennedy family.

Oswald left the TBDS, got a bus for two blocks, got a taxi, went past the bus station, when to his house and ended up in the theatre. Why didn't he run when he had ample time? Maybe he was waiting for someone.

I would presume he intended to walk to the nearby freeway on foot, hitch a ride and force the driver to take him to Mexico at gun point. Or else he had no clear idea what he was doing. He an unstable maniac. This guy after all had a history crazy behaviour such as shooting himself in the arm in the Marines, emigrated to the Soviet Union, slitting his wrists, trying to emigrate to Cuba, handed out pro-Castro flyers and trying to assassinate a former U.S. General.

So when you read the Warren Commission report, has any evidence you might have read since made you doubt it?

It is cut and dried. The accumulated evidence all points to Oswald's guilt.
There is no way there could be that much evidence against one guy if he was innocent.

Did you read the report that The United States House Select Committee on Assassinations did in 1979?

Yes. It said Oswald shot JFK.
The only issue of controversy was the dictabelt recording of police radio traffic which appeared to have four shots fired in Dealey Plaza at the time of the shooting. This has been proven to be recorded at a different time and place that day in Dallas.
This ambiquity gave oxygen to conspiracy theorists who went off on wild goose chases ever since.

Tipsy McSwagger · 06-08-2012 08:59PM

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jean Hill was a pure liar but wasn't there a little stuffed dog between the Kennedy's?

snafuk35 · 06-08-2012 09:20PM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jean Hill was a pure liar but wasn't there a little stuffed dog between the Kennedy's?

Jackie received a bunch of flowers when she landed at Lovefield.
Conspiracy theorists have tried to claim there was a Lamb Chop stuffed toy in the backseat to make Hill's crazy claims credible. You see if she saw a dog and it was a stuffed toy then ya know maybe all the other nuts stuff she said is true too?!

I don't see a stuff toy do you?

buried · 06-08-2012 09:36PM

David Talbot wrote a very interesting piece about the Warren Report in 2004, in the article Talbot states that powerful men such as LBJ, Nixon, Khrushchev and DeGaulle were privately skeptical about the report's findings. Its very unusual for official men to be highly skeptical about official reports.

Long article but well worth a read.

http://www.salon.com/2004/09/15/warren/

Rasheed · 07-08-2012 03:42AM

snafuk35 wrote: »

An assassin is going to stand waiting behind a picket fence with a rifle with dozens of witnesses around some of them only feet away and open fire?

Jean Hill has changed her version of events dozens of times over the years. In her original testimony she claimed she saw a little dog in the back seat of the limosine.

The Newmans were interviewed. Google it.

All the evidence was released.

If you got together all the people conspiracy theorist claim shot JFK then you have an entire rifle company firing at JFK from behind the picket fence.

I presume the brain was destroyed or buried with JFK by the Kennedy family.

I would presume he intended to walk to the nearby freeway on foot, hitch a ride and force the driver to take him to Mexico at gun point. Or else he had no clear idea what he was doing. He an unstable maniac. This guy after all had a history crazy behaviour such as shooting himself in the arm in the Marines, emigrated to the Soviet Union, slitting his wrists, trying to emigrate to Cuba, handed out pro-Castro flyers and trying to assassinate a former U.S. General.

It is cut and dried. The accumulated evidence all points to Oswald's guilt.
There is no way there could be that much evidence against one guy if he was innocent.

Yes. It said Oswald shot JFK.
The only issue of controversy was the dictabelt recording of police radio traffic which appeared to have four shots fired in Dealey Plaza at the time of the shooting. This has been proven to be recorded at a different time and place that day in Dallas.
This ambiquity gave oxygen to conspiracy theorists who went off on wild goose chases ever since.

You are making fair points but how can you be so sure? How do you know all the evidence was released? Ok so Jean Hill might not have been a reliable witness but what about the other people claiming intimidation?

Of course every so many people/ agencies have been blamed but maybe one is the truth?

You are doing alot of presuming done about the brain and what Oswald was going to do/ should have, the same as everyone else because we don't know.

Of course Oswald was guilty, I never once thought he wasn't. All I'm doing is questioning the possibility of him doing it alone, with someone, for someone.

In all fairness, The Warren Commission could be correct. Nothing major has come to light since to seriously challange it, but there are snippets of evidence that was proven to be with held/ left out. Maybe they would have reached the same conclusion anyway.

On another note, why do you think Ruby killed Oswald?

Just a thought on why John F Kennedy was killed

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