Permission granted to grow GM potatoes in Ireland

steddyeddy · 12-08-2012 10:45AM

Is everyone here against gm food against gm insulin? No one has anwsered this before and told me the difference between the two?

Colmustard · 12-08-2012 11:40AM

Britain during WW2 converted all available land to agriculture, even parks and nearly all food was produced "organically" out of necessity.

It still was not enough and if they hadn't broke the German naval cypher and won the battle of the Atlantic the war was over for Britain.

Organic farming is a pipe dream and a back to Eden fantasy. Without industrial farming the world would be in famine and modern industrial farming methods are still not enough as the population gets richer and creeps even higher. GM is the next step to meet that increasing demand.

You can say Ireland isn't feeding the world, true, but we sell on the world market so if a farmer produces a field of Barley he will still get the international market price for that, and we the consumer will pay that price, no matter were it is grown.

For the world cheap food is more important than cheap fuel. Both are linked, so we are living in a pending crisis of fuel and food inflation. This will effect us all. As a specie we have found tech solutions to coming crisis, GM is that tech solution. AND GM may also give us cheap fuel.

Ireland should be a leader in this, it will be a wealth generator in the future.

steddyeddy · 12-08-2012 12:05PM

I take it everyone worried about Irelands "green" image is also protesting about this:

Double blow for the future of white-tailed sea eagles

By Mark O'Regan

Thursday May 17 2012

THE future of white-tailed sea eagles in Ireland was dealt a double blow yesterday.
Hopes for breeding to begin, for the first time in more than a century in this country, were dashed after two eggs in a nest in Co Clare were abandoned by their parents.
Another white-tailed sea eagle -- one of 100 re-introduced in Ireland some years ago -- was found shot and poisoned in Co Mayo.
Last month it was confirmed that a pair of the young raptors had set up home near the shores of Lough Derg, just outside Mountshannon, Co Clare.
The birds had been guarding their eggs since April 9 -- with experts predicting the chicks would arrive within the next four weeks.
"The birds had been very attentive and they had been doing really well, but there was a change on Tuesday afternoon when they left the nest a couple of times," said Dr Allan Mee from the eagle reintroduction programme.
"The most likely case is that a chick hatched and it died or it fell down where the parents couldn't get to it," he added.
The four-year-old male and three-year-old female were brought over from Norway in 2008 and 2009 respectively. But all hope is not lost as Dr Mee says the eagles will remain in the vicinity of Mountshannon with another breeding attempt expected next spring.
Meanwhile, a young eagle, which had been released in Killarney National Park in 2010, was found dead on a small island on Lough Beltra, about eight miles from Castlebar.
A search was launched by the Golden Eagle Trust after the bird's electronic tag indicated it had not moved for many weeks. Post mortem results showed that not only had the eagle got high concentrations of poison in its system, but shotgun pellets were also discovered in its body.
It is understood the eagle had been dead for about 10 days when it was recovered. More than 20 of the 100 birds re-introduced to Kerry from Norway have been either shot or poisoned.
Post mortem results from another eagle found dead recently in the Donegal Blue Stack mountains showed that it had also been poisoned.
- Mark O'Regan

This country makes me sick I will personally ensure I never buy Irish agriculture goods again and I will adivse any non Irish friends to do the same.

Ps I garuntee this will affect farming grants more than gm foods.

Colmustard · 12-08-2012 12:16PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I take it everyone worried about Irelands "green" image is also protesting about this:

This country makes me sick I will personally ensure I never buy Irish agriculture goods again and I will adivse any non Irish friends to do the same.

Ps I garuntee this will affect farming grants more than gm foods.

It is a disgrace, the Norwegians gave us the birds, free, all we had to do was enjoy their magnificence and look after them.

But its not that cut and dry, the poisoning is accidental, farmers lay poison in the open to poison foxes or rats, but it is in the open so the birds take the bait or they eat another weakened bird who has not yet died from the poison.

I remember this a few years ago, they were supposed to be introducing legislation prohibiting laying poison in the open. I don't know whether they did or not.

steddyeddy · 12-08-2012 12:21PM

Colmustard wrote: »

It is a disgrace, the Norwegians gave us the birds, free, all we had to do was enjoy their magnificence and look after them.

But its not that cut and dry, the poisoning is accidental, farmers lay poison in the open to poison foxes or rats, but it is in the open so the birds take the bait or they eat another weakened bird who has not yet died from the poison.

I remember this a few years ago, they were supposed to be introducing legislation prohibiting laying poison in the open. I don't know whether they did or not.

Laying poison is illegal either way.

hoochis · 12-08-2012 12:38PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I take it everyone worried about Irelands "green" image is also protesting about this:

This country makes me sick I will personally ensure I never buy Irish agriculture goods again and I will adivse any non Irish friends to do the same.

Ps I garuntee this will affect farming grants more than gm foods.

Boycotting Irish agriculture produce a bit harsh. There are only a handful of farmers involved in this. And I’m pretty sure they are contributing very little to Irish agriculture at the moment. Don’t paint all farmers with the same brush. Authorities know the areas where these birds are at danger and should step up efforts to catch and prosecute those involved.

steddyeddy · 12-08-2012 12:39PM

hoochis wrote: »

Boycotting Irish agriculture produce a bit harsh. There are only a handful of farmers involved in this. And I’m pretty sure they are contributing very little to Irish agriculture at the moment. Don’t paint all farmers with the same brush. Authorities know the areas where these birds are at danger and should step up efforts to catch and prosecute those involved.

Im sure very little farmers are at this but enough is enough. Nothing is being done about this and I will do anything I can to bring attention to it.

Colmustard · 12-08-2012 12:41PM

Another group who I would be suspicious of, Pigeon Fanciers.

steddyeddy · 12-08-2012 12:47PM

hoochis wrote: »

Boycotting Irish agriculture produce a bit harsh. There are only a handful of farmers involved in this. And I’m pretty sure they are contributing very little to Irish agriculture at the moment. Don’t paint all farmers with the same brush. Authorities know the areas where these birds are at danger and should step up efforts to catch and prosecute those involved.

ps any farmer that lays poison is guilty.

padocon · 12-08-2012 12:51PM

hoochis wrote: »

Boycotting Irish agriculture produce a bit harsh. There are only a handful of farmers involved in this. And I’m pretty sure they are contributing very little to Irish agriculture at the moment. Don’t paint all farmers with the same brush. Authorities know the areas where these birds are at danger and should step up efforts to catch and prosecute those involved.

Exactly, allot of farms I know bring in specialists like rentokill for pest prevention. They say the poison is not ment to be able to kill birds but only small animals like mice, rats etc. And as for leaving poison in the open, I doubt many farmers do that. Most of them have sheepdogs or children around, so that would just be highly dangerous.

hoochis · 12-08-2012 01:03PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

ps any farmer that lays poison is guilty.

I could be wrong but I don’t think it is illegal to lay poison if the proper guidelines are followed. The Department of Agriculture send leaflets to farmers regularly to remind them how they should deal with poisons.

steddyeddy · 12-08-2012 01:03PM

padocon wrote: »

Exactly, allot of farms I know bring in specialists like rentokill for pest prevention. They say the poison is not ment to be able to kill birds but only small animals like mice, rats etc. And as for leaving poison in the open, I doubt many farmers do that. Most of them have sheepdogs or children around, so that would just be highly dangerous.

I agree with what you say but this has being going on to long. I lived in the us for years and criminals like the bird killers were thrown in jail for crimes against wildlife. Nothing happens here and for me enough is enough. I will never but Irish agriculture again, I will fight any grants they get and If gm intereferes with Irish farming I wont fight their corner anymore.

steddyeddy · 12-08-2012 01:04PM

hoochis wrote: »

I could be wrong but I don’t think it is illegal to lay poison if the proper guidelines are followed. The Department of Agriculture send leaflets to farmers regularly to remind them how they should deal with poisons.

baited poisons are illegal.

hoochis · 12-08-2012 01:04PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I agree with what you say but this has being going on to long. I lived in the us for years and criminals like the bird killeres were thrown in jail for crimes against wildlife. Nothing happens here and for me enough is enough. I will never but Irish agriculture again, I will fight any grants they get and If gm intereferes with Irish farming I wont fight their corner anymore.

So all farmers should pay for the actions of a few?

steddyeddy · 12-08-2012 01:10PM

hoochis wrote: »

So all farmers should pay for the actions of a few?

Im not debating it. I shouldnt even have to. Were one of the few countries that allows the killing of an endangered species. I also dont see the IFA tackling the issue. When they commented on the issue after eagles had been poisoned the IFA said "the farmers should have been told the birds where in the area". Not that poisning was illegal or imoral just that famers should have been told. When the IFA deals with the issue properly Ill change my view. Until then I will do everything I can to bring attention to this issue and make sure the current Irish farming sstem doesnt get away with this.

hoochis · 12-08-2012 01:25PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Im not debating it. I shouldnt even have to. Were one of the few countries that allows the killing of an endangered species. I also dont see the IFA tackling the issue. When they commented on the issue after eagles had been poisoned the IFA said "the farmers should have been told the birds where in the area". Not that poisning was illegal or imoral just that famers should have been told. When the IFA deals with the issue properly Ill change my view. Until then I will do everything I can to bring attention to this issue and make sure the current Irish farming sstem doesnt get away with this.

Fair enough. I don't see how getting rid of farming grants will be of any use though. That's just going to put more pressure on Irish Agriculture in general which would have a huge negative effect for the rest of the economy.

Cardinal Richelieu · 12-08-2012 01:35PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

ps any farmer that lays poison is guilty.

Where I live in Dublin there was a number of Red Kites last year poisoned. Everyone was up in arms about the farmers but if you know the area particularly well you can't help noticing the number of one off houses surrounded by fields. Now the countryside is a nice place to live but it's also swarming with rodents especially around harvest time and talking to some of these city slickers they had throw some uncovered poison baits about in the ditches around the garden to deal with the rats and mice. So its not always the farmers fault. I much rather we regulate who can have access to poisons and pesticides for that matter. As a householder I can turn up at agriculture Co-op and buy industrial sized containers of bait and pesticides and no one checks if I am trained to use them.

paddy147 · 12-08-2012 02:13PM

For thew record I used some diluted weedkiller ONCE on a patch of my back garden recently to clear it of the dense weedy growth,brambles and nettles...Reason being that its about be be leveled,redesigned and landscaped,with a nice wildlife pond,bog garden and some native Irish plants and flowers

I dont use weedkillers or pesticides on a regular basis,like some people like to think I do.

I used a rather small amount of diluted weedkiller ONCE and that was all.It was sprayed low to the ground on a calm dry day.I sprayed it in the late evening too.

Now I have lots of bee friendly flowers and plants in my front garden,and will be doing the same in the back garden too.

I rather like bees,as seeing my girlfriend work with them,has rubbed off on me,and Im now starting to see and understand how important they are for all of us.
I also have a lot of hoverflys and ladybirds in my front garden,which Im trying to keep in the garden with the right plants,flowers and even putting down little resting places/homes for them around the garden.

Im not the best person in the world,but Im slowly learning and appreciating how important all these creature are are...for ALL OF US.:)

Einhard · 12-08-2012 03:43PM

xynn wrote: »

The point I was making, if you're interested, was that our soil is not at present contaminated by the growth of GM crops, and that I don't see the sense of changing that. Also, I don't think anything like this should be allowed without the population as a whole having some sort of say. We're supposed to be living in a democracy here.

No, the point you were making, and to which I responded to, was that people who so wanted GM should move to America. Which was a dumb point to make. Also: yes we do live in a democracy. The Green party are fiercely anti-GM, and got wiped out in the last election. If people are against this, all they have to do is vote Green for the next election, or set up their own anti-GM party. That's how democracy works.

If we start growing GM crops for the market, it won't be long before Monsanto
and other giant corporations find their way in. Or how do you propose that
they be kept out?

We're not growing for the market. It's a research project, run by the state farming body. Monsanto are not involved.

Studies have been done showing GM toxins in human blood. Is that
not enough for you?

I'm not a scientist, but this doesn't even appear to make sense. GM toxins? What are they exactly? Are they toxins only produced by GM crops? Can you identify them? It seems a tad strange that, in America, the most litigious country in world history, all the apparently millions of people affected by GM crops haven't taken a class action law suit against these companies. Very odd that.

And how is genetically engineering crops in Ireland going to make this any
better?

I didn't state it would. But if we're to ban foodstuffs that we're not "designed" for, as you advocate, then we'd be banning a lot more than GM.

Evolution is a different argument. I never mentioned evolution myself.
I am simply talking about not implanting genetic material from different
organisms into crops, because it is simply madness to do so!

I'm talking about human evolution. You stated that we're not "designed", ie evolved for GM crops. I'm not sure if that is true or not, but one thing is sure, most of the foods we eat now are not in eeping with our eveolution. So if you want to ban GM on that basis, you must surely wish to ban most of our other foodstuffs. If you're consistent that is.

padocon · 12-08-2012 06:46PM

hoochis wrote: »

I could be wrong but I don’t think it is illegal to lay poison if the proper guidelines are followed. The Department of Agriculture send leaflets to farmers regularly to remind them how they should deal with poisons.

It is not illegal certain types might be, there might be certain restrictions and rules to be followed but it is not illegal point blank.

steddyeddy wrote: »

Im not debating it. I shouldnt even have to. Were one of the few countries that allows the killing of an endangered species. I also dont see the IFA tackling the issue. When they commented on the issue after eagles had been poisoned the IFA said "the farmers should have been told the birds where in the area".

Not all farmers are in the IFA, many are not part of it and it is the only trade union for farmers as far as I know. So the ones that want to be part of one have no choice but to chose the IFA.

I will never but Irish agriculture again, I will fight any grants they get and If gm intereferes with Irish farming I wont fight their corner anymore.

Thats unreasonable and unfair, if certain farmers break the law for failing to comply with regulations regards to the use of poison then they should be prosecuted, but is completely unfair to penalize every single farmer in Ireland. Farming is hugely beneficial to the Irish economy, and I think it would be a shame to ruin it by pulling grants and subsidies.

steddyeddy · 12-08-2012 08:05PM

hoochis wrote: »

Fair enough. I don't see how getting rid of farming grants will be of any use though. That's just going to put more pressure on Irish Agriculture in general which would have a huge negative effect for the rest of the economy.

Well deal with the rest of my post and Ill be more understanding.

steddyeddy · 12-08-2012 08:07PM

padocon wrote: »

It is not illegal certain types might be, there might be certain restrictions and rules to be followed but it is not illegal point blank.

Not all farmers are in the IFA, many are not part of it and it is the only trade union for farmers as far as I know. So the ones that want to be part of one have no choice but to chose the IFA.

Thats unreasonable and unfair, if certain farmers break the law for failing to comply with regulations regards to the use of poison then they should be prosecuted, but is completely unfair to penalize every single farmer in Ireland. Farming is hugely beneficial to the Irish economy, and I think it would be a shame to ruin it by pulling grants and subsidies.

Sorry but Im coming from an american point of view where farmers ect who broke the law ended up in jail and or lost the right to keep animals. Nothing is being done about this and I have no choice but take some sort of stand. The ifa havent even addressed the issue. Its not an easy position to take I have a half brother who is a small farmer in the west!

steddyeddy · 12-08-2012 08:09PM

padocon wrote: »

It is not illegal certain types might be, there might be certain restrictions and rules to be followed but it is not illegal point blank.

Not all farmers are in the IFA, many are not part of it and it is the only trade union for farmers as far as I know. So the ones that want to be part of one have no choice but to chose the IFA.

Thats unreasonable and unfair, if certain farmers break the law for failing to comply with regulations regards to the use of poison then they should be prosecuted, but is completely unfair to penalize every single farmer in Ireland. Farming is hugely beneficial to the Irish economy, and I think it would be a shame to ruin it by pulling grants and subsidies.

Ps ill just say I calmed down a bit since then and I do value the agri sector in this country (its one of-if not our most important sectors). I cant stand this sh1t any longer though.

paddy147 · 12-08-2012 08:37PM

Heres an interesting read from An Taisce.

http://www.antaisce.ie/Portals/0/Newsletters/mar2011/mar2011.html

They also note the decline in bees and butterflys by 68% in GM areas.

Dont shoot me down here,as Im only the messenger here.

Im just wondering how can someone be "pro" GM spuds but have an issue with the use of a herbicide weed killer??.

Food for thought below.....

....."The European Environmental Bureau (EEB) of which An Taisce is an active member, is calling for the Council of Ministers to ensure a de facto new moratorium on the cultivation of GMOs by suspending new authorisations until the current authorisation system is significantly strengthened and rules in line with the 2008 Council conclusions, guaranteeing member states the right to decide whether or not to cultivate GM crops in their territory are in place; and to ensure that a rigorous, comprehensive, coherent and mandatory regime for the risk assessment of GMOs will be put in place.

An Taisce is calling for Ireland to vote against the new proposals. There are huge risks associated with the release of Genetically Modified Organisms (GMOs) in to the Environment, one of which is the fact that those organisms can never be recalled. Once released nothing can control their expansion, their mutations, their invasion of "unimproved" plants, or the cross fertilisation with regular crops. The potential consequences for biodiversity, and food sovereignty, are far reaching. There is also huge merit in Ireland taking on a strong GM Free stance for economic reasons, which include feeding the growing demands of European consumers for GM free foods.

Research on impacts of GM herbicide tolerant spring crops on farmland Biodiversity, carried out on more than 200 plots in the UK, has demonstrated worrying trends. Bees and butterflies were found to be fewer in the GM fields, as low as 68% less abundant in GM fields than in fields of conventionally grown crops. Other complex ecological relationships were found to be much impacted by the GM crops, such as a reduction in a range of pollinators and other beneficial invertebrates. Most of the Biotech industry focus in genetic engineering is based on herbicide resistance. The engineered crop is developed with a resistance to a particular herbicide, often produced by the same company that has developed the crop, so that the fields with the engineered crop can be heavily sprayed with the herbicide to kill off all other plants. This obviously has major knock on impacts in the environment, for example in herbicide residues in soil and water, and to wild flora and fauna in the landscape. The clearance of huge fields and tracts of land with powerful herbicides produces farmland devoid of wildlife, spelling disaster for already declining bird and other wildlife populations.

Genetically Engineered crops strengthen the control of multinationals over our agricultural sector and thus weaken food security by increasing farmer’s dependence on international seed and chemical supply, and decreasing the genetic diversity of and hence crop resistance to unforeseen factors such as drought and disease. It is these same profit driven motives of the agricultural biotech companies that have driven the new proposals and their support from Council Ministers".....

Cardinal Richelieu · 12-08-2012 10:25PM

paddy147 wrote: »

Im just wondering how can someone be "pro" GM spuds but have an issue with the use of a herbicide weed killer??.

I think this is aimed at me, I don't have an issue with herbicide usage once it applied by trained people. As part of the Bord Bia Standard, Farmers and Market Gardeners must do an accredited Pesticide Course. Wouldn't the bees and butterflies not to forget the humans be more at risk from an untrained professional?

paddy147 · 12-08-2012 10:36PM

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

I think this is aimed at me, I don't have an issue with herbicide usage once it applied by trained people. As part of the Bord Bia Standard, Farmers and Market Gardeners must do an accredited Pesticide Course. Wouldn't the bees and butterflies not to forget the humans be more at risk from an untrained professional?

So on what basis did you just go and "presume" that I incorrectly used a "herbicide" weed killer on my patch of garden??

You have gone on at me,since my 1st post here.

But now Im using it incorrectly according to you and your implied comments...so on what actual basis can you say this about me??

You are aware of what they put on and in fields prior to,during and after GM spud trials,arent you.

Cardinal Richelieu · 12-08-2012 11:03PM

paddy147 wrote: »

So on what basis did you just go and "presume" that I incorrectly used a "herbicide" weed killer on my patch of garden??

Ahh here we go, your implying I said something which I didn't and choose to misinterpret previous posts on this topic to suit yourself. You have repeated nearly as a mantra in this thread and other GM threads on boards that GM crops cause damage to the bees and butterflies. Every time you were asked for a link to the report quoted in the newspaper article that you reference, you were unable to supply it.:rolleyes:

Other posters as well as myself pointed out the damage caused to bee population by herbicides yet your main issue was with GM crops. Can you not see that your contradicting yourself to suit your needs?

GM crops are nasty and bad to the bees and butterflies.
Herbicide is fine even do extensive scientific evidence exists that they do cause damage to bees because you might need to clear a patch of weeds the odd time

.

paddy147 · 12-08-2012 11:17PM

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Ahh here we go, your implying I said something which I didn't and choose to misinterpret previous posts on this topic to suit yourself. You have repeated nearly as a mantra in this thread and other GM threads on boards that GM crops cause damage to the bees and butterflies. Every time you were asked for a link to the report quoted in the newspaper article that you reference, you were unable to supply it.:rolleyes:

Other posters as well as myself pointed out the damage caused to bee population by herbicides yet your main issue was with GM crops. Can you not see that your contradicting yourself to suit your needs?
GM crops are nasty and bad to the bees and butterflies.

Herbicide is fine even do extensive scientific evidence exists that they do cause damage to bees because you might need to clear a patch of weeds the odd time

.

I didnt personally say any of that and make this up...Im only providing information from various sources...thats all.

I posted 2 links to which they both said the there was a 68% decline in bees and butterflys in GM areas.

But you still want to try and say that Ive provided no links,and Ive only personally said it,that Im quoting a political party or a politicans comments and its all policical??

So then......is "An Tasice" (see link above) a policital party or a newspaper then?????

You then have a go at me for using a diluted "herbicide" weedkiller once,on a small patch of my back garden (in calm dry weather and late evening).

You said and implied in previous posts,that I use "pesticides" on a regular basis......which couldnt be any further from the truth.
Ive personally never used fungicides or insecticides ever before.

You now presume that because I didnt do a course,that I must have done it wrong (because Im untrained) and should not be allowed to spray a patch of my back garden,becaues Im not trained in the art of it.

But now its suddenly OK to use it,but only if you are a trained professional.

You are fully aware of what the chemical process is...before,during and after GM fields and spud trials,arent you??.

So with that in mind,and the "An Taisce" link above,I find your posts and also your comments very conflicting indeed.

So exactly how are you "qualified" to make judgment about me??

muckyhands · 13-08-2012 04:12AM

The jurys out for me re GM spuds, not in their favour... too many unknowns, and 'neglible' assumptions/ expected results... :rolleyes::eek::eek:

Cardinal Richelieu · 13-08-2012 03:21PM

paddy147 wrote: »

I didnt personally say any of that and make this up...Im only providing information from various sources...thats all.

I posted 2 links to which they both said the there was a 68% decline in bees and butterflys in GM areas.

But you still want to try and say that Ive provided no links,and Ive only personally said it,that Im quoting a political party or a politicans comments and its all policical??

I asked for a link to the original report, to put it simpler for you, the actual scientific report that came up with the 68%. Is that too much to ask for? First you posted the newspaper quote, then a quote from An Tasice website but no actual link to the original report.

paddy147 wrote: »

So then......is "An Tasice" (see link above) a policital party or a newspaper then?????

Its a NGO with many many links to the Green Party. Former Green Party TDs such as Ciaran Cuffe have served on its board. Hardly an independent non political source.

paddy147 wrote: »

You then have a go at me for using a diluted "herbicide" weedkiller once,on a small patch of my back garden (in calm dry weather and late evening).

You said and implied in previous posts,that I use "pesticides" on a regular basis......which couldnt be any further from the truth.
Ive personally never used fungicides or insecticides ever before.

You now presume that because I didnt do a course,that I must have done it wrong (because Im untrained) and should not be allowed to spray a patch of my back garden,becaues Im not trained in the art of it.

But now its suddenly OK to use it,but only if you are a trained professional.

I pointed out the contradiction of your sole argument against GM Crops, that we will have Bees and butterflies no more if we have GM crops while you used herbicide which is actually proven to cause damage to bee populations. You may only use them rarely but you still are in someway contributing to bee decline.

Is it wrong to ask for trained professionals to be only allowed access to hazardous materials such as pesticides?

paddy147 wrote: »

You are fully aware of what the chemical process is...before,during and after GM fields and spud trials,arent you??.

By chemical process I presume your referring to the crops Pesticide Treatment Program. Yes, I have read up on the topic, I also know in a bad blight year the amount of treatments a field of non GM spuds gets, not to forget the herbicide treatments before emergence, selective herbicide treatment, then the application of defoliate before harvest. Have you ever grown a field of potatoes? Honest question. I have.

paddy147 wrote: »

So with that in mind,and the "An Taisce" link above,I find your posts and also your comments very conflicting indeed.

Well judging by the number of times you have to be asked the same question and still can't provide a link to the original report I can believe that.:D

paddy147 wrote: »

So exactly how are you "qualified" to make judgment about me??

I didn't, I just pointed out you contradicted yourself, I asked you for a link to the original report numerous times now which you still haven't supplied.

Permission granted to grow GM potatoes in Ireland

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