Why do the Irish buy such sh*te cars?

Leonard Hofstadter · 09-08-2012 12:22AM #1

Ireland must be the only country in Europe where less is more when it comes to cars, and where the worst possible version of any given car is the best possible version in Ireland.

In every other country, a 2.0 TDCi Mondeo is a better car than the 1.6. Not so in Ireland, where the 2.0 is seen as somehow being worse because of the "large engine":eek::rolleyes: (and the "high tax" even though it is €225 for the 2.0 as opposed to €160 for the 1.6) despite the fact that it has a minimum of 25 bhp more, which is a lot when you're only starting with 115 in the 1.6 TDCi.

Then there is spec, or rather the lack of it. I've just come back from a holiday in France, where even the likes of Renault Clios have climate control, and there are even Toyotas with a bit of spec, even stuff like the Yaris out there will have a/c, alloys, fogs etc etc. Even little Ford Kas will have air con and fogs and electric windows - electric windows aren't even standard on the poverty spec Ka over here. It's embarrassing to be back in Ireland to see all the poverty spec stripped out rubbish that passes as 'cars' over here.

Any Ford I saw was a Ghia or a Titanium (and the proper Ghia and Titanium, not the watered down versions we get here where Ford takes out some of the things that Ghias and Titaniums have as standard elsewhere to bring the price down).

Again, in every other country more spec is a good thing, in Ireland, it's "yet another thing to go wrong":rolleyes:?

There is a car loving culture in the UK, as evidenced by the amount of hot hatches sold over there (of course the backward Paddys don't buy such things), but again you can be sure that the vast majority of Brits see a car as merely a more convenient mode of transport.

Where did we get this retarded attitude when it comes to cars? Of course, some will say that 'sure isn't a car only to get you from a to b', but France is not exactly noted for being a haven for petrolheads either. How come people who have no interest in cars elsewhere actually recognise what a nice version of any given car is and will buy cars with some spec and a decent engine?

Some might say that there is no 'car culture' in this country because we don't build any of them. Well, we built Fords in Cork for many many years, and we built Toyotas and VWs in Dublin as well. Also, Ford is of Irish origin, with Henry Ford's Grandfather being from West Cork.

To this day, we still make lots of car related equipement, mirrors, other electronic components, you name it, we make it, so we do have car manufacturing in our genes.

So why are we so special in this country when it comes to cars, and what, if anything can be done about it? We don't see Paddy spec TVs, or Paddy spec computers where all the good stuff is stripped out of them, so why should and indeed why are cars different?

Stainless_Steel · 09-08-2012 12:25AM

Ever heard of VRT?

Brand new cars are more expensive here. Hence people go for the more affordable specs. The market has adjusted to this fact and it is actually difficult to get the higher spec models.

FrontDoor · 09-08-2012 12:30AM

You can't have been in France? French people don't give a fcuk about their cars.

L1011 · 09-08-2012 12:31AM

VRT. Slavish devotion to Japanese brands. Slavish devotion to car age (newer) over quality.

One or more applies in virtually every case.

gerarda · 09-08-2012 12:32AM

Most people in this country just want something that fulfills there needs. I don't see what is "retarded" about buying a solid reliable car that wont cost a fortune to run or maintain.

Stainless_Steel · 09-08-2012 12:42AM

Re air con lacking from cars - we live in Ireland!!

Voodoomelon · 09-08-2012 01:49AM

You see this from the moment you start driving. I remember being told that anything larger than a 1.2 litre is FAR too big to be starting out in. You need to learn in something smaller first.

Cost was not the reason, just small minded logic.

Mister Jingles · 09-08-2012 02:21AM

Voodoomelon wrote: »

You see this from the moment you start driving. I remember being told that anything larger than a 1.2 litre is FAR too big to be starting out in. You need to learn in something smaller first.

Cost was not the reason, just small minded logic.

You've hit the nail on the head there. I keep getting told that a 1.6 Focus h/b is far to big in both engine and size for me to have as a first car. Yet I can insure one cheaper then a punto and a few other small engined cars. Might not be as cheap on petrol but I'm okay with that. I've also being told before that anything bigger then a 1.2 would be too hard to maintain ? How ?

I come from a family where anything over 1.6 is just too big. Come to think of it I can't think of anyone other then one of my uncles who has anything over 1.6, and I've a big enough family. It does be quite funny explaining the engines that do be in most car in the US.

delthedriver · 09-08-2012 02:25AM

Mister Jingles wrote: »

You've hit the nail on the head there. I keep getting told that a 1.6 Focus h/b is far to big in both engine and size for me to have as a first car. Yet I can insure one cheaper then a punto and a few other small engined cars. Might not be as cheap on petrol but I'm okay with that. I've also being told before that anything bigger then a 1.2 would be too hard to maintain ? How ?

Totally agree with you. By the way I reckon the Focus is more reliable and safer than the Punto.

Mister Jingles · 09-08-2012 02:38AM

delthedriver wrote: »

Totally agree with you. By the way I reckon the Focus is more reliable and safer than the Punto.

B]RANT[/BI know that yea, but sure in Ireland when your young, your never right. B]RANT[/B

I remember reading on here before a couple of years ago that Skoda cars were a higher spec then the ones over in the UK ? This true ?

Pdfile · 09-08-2012 02:48AM

MYOB wrote: »

VRT. Slavish devotion to Japanese brands. Slavish devotion to car age (newer) over quality.

One or more applies in virtually every case.

dont forget price fixing, its been ripe the last 20 years so... :mad:

Anan1 · 09-08-2012 08:46AM

captainspeed wrote: »

So why are we so special in this country when it comes to cars, and what, if anything can be done about it? We don't see Paddy spec TVs, or Paddy spec computers where all the good stuff is stripped out of them, so why should and indeed why are cars different?

Because that's what Irish buyers want. You may as well ask why the Irish dress so badly, or why we consistently vote in unprincipled and dishonest politicians. Freedom is, among other things, the freedom to buy cars you don't like.

Also, if we actually get down to it we'll probably find that you and I have totally different ideas about what spec is worth paying for. The best way to keep both of us happy is to offer a low standard spec with plenty of available options.

SuperGrover · 09-08-2012 08:54AM

So, you're trying to sell your car. It has aircon and satnav or whatever. There's no big rush by anyone to take it off your hands, therefore the entire country is retarded?

Have I got this right?

Theta · 09-08-2012 09:00AM

Mister Jingles wrote: »

You've hit the nail on the head there. I keep getting told that a 1.6 Focus h/b is far to big in both engine and size for me to have as a first car. Yet I can insure one cheaper then a punto and a few other small engined cars. Might not be as cheap on petrol but I'm okay with that. I've also being told before that anything bigger then a 1.2 would be too hard to maintain ? How ?

I come from a family where anything over 1.6 is just too big. Come to think of it I can't think of anyone other then one of my uncles who has anything over 1.6, and I've a big enough family. It does be quite funny explaining the engines that do be in most car in the US.

The same was said to me when I got a 2L turbo for my first car but I managed to be lucky and get a good spec one that was pretty much in brand new condition I haven't seen another with as many extras on it.

Valetta · 09-08-2012 09:34AM

captainspeed wrote: »

So why are we so special in this country when it comes to cars, and what, if anything can be done about it? We don't see Paddy spec TVs, or Paddy spec computers where all the good stuff is stripped out of them, so why should and indeed why are cars different?

Genuine question:
Why are you so bothered about what other people drive?

Anan1 · 09-08-2012 09:43AM

Valetta wrote: »

Genuine question:
Why are you so bothered about what other people drive?

In fairness to the OP, what other people buy new determines the choice of used cars available to him.

piston · 09-08-2012 09:44AM

The majority of Irish people just want something reasonably priced and reliable that will take them to where they want to go with minimal hassle. I don't see anything wrong with that. The obsession with Japanese cars in this country is probably because the Japs mastered the art of building cars which fit the bill before the Europeans did.

Speaking personally, I have never felt the need for a car kitted out with gadgets and prefer simple cars. The important point to me is how does the car drive, not how many electrical gadgets it's got. All this stuff adds weight, lightweight cars always feel more nimble on the road. As far as performance goes, it's nice to have a bit of power, but the fact remains than just about any car built from the late 1960s onwards is perfectly capable of getting you penalty points.

maidhc · 09-08-2012 09:47AM

This thread is boring.

Who cares, let people buy what they want. We have a plentiful supply of every sort of cars both here, and from our nearest neighbour.

The Idyll Race · 09-08-2012 09:54AM

Another way of looking at it is that if you want a lo-spec, grey Japanese car with no air con, Ireland is the place to be!

Potential-Monke · 09-08-2012 09:54AM

For me, at the moment, it's tax related. I won't be in any position anytime in the near future to buy a 08+, so i'm stuck in old tax land. I would love to have an older Mitsi GTO, VR4, Jag, etc but fooked if i'm paying €1500+ a year in tax, can barely afford the €600+ i'm paying for a 2L.

Most people today want cheap, low running cost, etc. If people didn't want cheap i don't think a 1.2l diesel engine would have been invented (slight sarcasm).

sean1141 · 09-08-2012 09:59AM

Mister Jingles wrote: »

I remember reading on here before a couple of years ago that Skoda cars were a higher spec then the ones over in the UK ? This true ?

The mk2 octavia vrs was better speced here than the one sold in the U.K. Cant remember off the top of my head what the differance was but it was minor. Something like 18' wheels as standard here and only an option in the UK. Maybe cruise control also.. someone else will know for sure!

Anan1 · 09-08-2012 09:59AM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

For me, at the moment, it's tax related. I won't be in any position anytime in the near future to buy a 08+, so i'm stuck in old tax land. I would love to have an older Mitsi GTO, VR4, Jag, etc but fooked if i'm paying €1500+ a year in tax, can barely afford the €600+ i'm paying for a 2L.

People forget that if bigger-engined older cars were cheaper to tax then they'd be correspondingly more expensive to buy.

haulagebasher · 09-08-2012 10:03AM

I guess its just becasue the majority of people are not car enthusiasts. Most folk just want a reliable, comfortable way of getting from A to B with a minimum of hassle.The likes of foglights and stuff when they are installed are rarely if ever used anyway. Anyone i saw with auto cliamte control don't even use it: they still just turn it on/off up/down depending if they are hot or cold.And in fainess, the more gimmicks are in a car it IS more likely that somthing will go wrong, and these days dealers charge $$$$ for correcting even trivial faults. I have a very basic Kia I got last year becasue I wanted something simple and strightforward with no hassle. I have better things to be doning than wrangling with a dealer as to why gimmicks X,Y and Z aren't working. Does the job perfectly and is cheap to run and maintain. Haven't had any problems. I opted for standard profile tyres and steel wheels as low profiles w. alloys just get pinched and beat up easier. As for engine sizes, shure look, your bhp and 0-60 time etc etc is only a concern of enthusiasts and petrol heads. It has absolutely no bearing on the lives of most people who only need a car for going to/from work and running down to Tesco twice a week and maybe the odd road trip now and again.Vast majority will see running costs, reliability and durability as the important factors with decorations and various gimmicks coming in second place.

Tea 1000 · 09-08-2012 10:03AM

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Thing is though, even when you're trying to sell the highest spec of a certain model for a very reasonable price, no one wants to buy it :pac:

I want to buy it... I just don't have the funds...

keithclancy · 09-08-2012 10:05AM

One thing I will say for Ireland is that it has a great second hand market.

Mainly due to the lunatics who replaced their car every 2 years.

In Holland and Germany the second hand market is pretty expensive.

Belgium I wouldn't bother, thing has probably been crashed or driven to shít.

France ... they just duct tape things back on.

Dr.Rieux · 09-08-2012 10:09AM

In Britain the Passat SE which I think is the equivalent of the Comfortline here comes with everything the Comfortline has except for the dual zone climat control which is a £500 option over there. That said even with ticking that option it could still be cheaper.

dar83 · 09-08-2012 10:16AM

haulagebasher wrote: »

I guess its just becasue the majority of people are not car enthusiasts. Most folk just want a reliable, comfortable way of getting from A to B with a minimum of hassle.The likes of foglights and stuff when they are installed are rarely if ever used anyway. Anyone i saw with auto cliamte control don't even use it: they still just turn it on/off up/down depending if they are hot or cold.And in fainess, the more gimmicks are in a car it IS more likely that somthing will go wrong, and these days dealers charge $$$$ for correcting even trivial faults. I have a very basic Kia I got last year becasue I wanted something simple and strightforward with no hassle. I have better things to be doning than wrangling with a dealer as to why gimmicks X,Y and Z aren't working. Does the job perfectly and is cheap to run and maintain. Haven't had any problems. I opted for standard profile tyres and steel wheels as low profiles w. alloys just get pinched and beat up easier. As for engine sizes, shure look, your bhp and 0-60 time etc etc is only a concern of enthusiasts and petrol heads. It has absolutely no bearing on the lives of most people who only need a car for going to/from work and running down to Tesco twice a week and maybe the odd road trip now and again.Vast majority will see running costs, reliability and durability as the important factors with decorations and various gimmicks coming in second place.

Each to their own and everything, but you're exactly what's wrong with this country. :P

steel wheels in 2012?!

bijapos · 09-08-2012 10:19AM

French cars tend to have low spec as in Ireland. A/C has only become popular in the last few years due to it being offered as a special offer in some sort of upgraded pack. It's only of use in the south, in the north you won't need it much. Although the French always sold high specced cars such as Renault Baccara spec the vast majority were zero spec no nonsense cars. The french prefer it cheap and easy to fix, it's one of the reasons why there are so many 80's and 90's cars on the road. Along with this Peugeot kept producing the 205 for the French market long after the 206 was introduced and kept producing the 206 long after the 207 was produced.

For low spec go to Germany, look at 80's and 90's Mercs and BMW's on www.mobile.de and the spec is atrocious, the first E-Class Merc to have 4 x EW as standard was the 2003 W211, older cars had no extras apart from a basic radio kit. I've seen W126 V8's with no A/C (very common), cloth seats, no EW, no sunrrof and with low grade alloys. I've seen a lot of R129 (SL) with cloth seats and no A/C, plenty of them with a manual but we can give them the bennefit of the doubt and say it's a personal choice.

In Germany 3 door Golfs, Astra's, Focus' etc are very common, low spec models but the main thing is that it's a low spec Golf in the driveway and not a well specced Polo. UK, French and Italian BMW's and Mercs are usually much higher spec than their German counterparts. One of the reasons for the huge success of the Merc 190 in the 80's and the A-Class in the 90's-00's is the fact that they were cheap cars with a star on the bonnet, the fact that they are zero spec doesn't bother the average German.

Most people want affordable, trouble free motoring, and coupled with the insane prices dealers traditionally charge for basics like 4 X EW, leather and A/C it's no wonder people leave them off. This couple with the huge relative depreciation of these extras means people tend to shy away from them. You could also ask why a US version of a car is way better specced than a Euro one as well.

Incidentally if the Daily Mail or Clarkson wrote about "retarded backward Paddies" I wonder how you would react. And while your at it my advice is that if you want a car to your spec then go out and buy and brand new one.

MuppetCheck · 09-08-2012 10:26AM

You can have whatever spec you want in any car in reality. This notion of paddy spec cars is a bit misleading - most are at least equivalent to the UK for example, but Irish people do not pay for extras.

There are items that are standard on the continent for reasons other than luxury - air conditioning is a necessity if faced with 30 degree plus days. It can be easily done without in Ireland if someone wished.

Honey-ec · 09-08-2012 11:04AM

OSI wrote: »

What's your point? Aircon doesn't just cool the car. It also dries and cleans the air, and makes clearing and keeping clear, windows much quicker. It's also much easier to regulate the temperature in the car. Even when I bought the car in February I had the Air Con turned on every day.

I remember a couple of years ago when we had the heavy snow, I got stuck in traffic for 4 hours, and I could not keep the inside of the car cool, despite it being below freezing out.

Or, y'know, you could have just opened the window...

pajo1981 · 09-08-2012 11:21AM

Sure what's the point in being Irish, if ye can't be a bit thick?

Why do the Irish buy such sh*te cars?

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