Why do the Irish buy such sh*te cars?

Leonard Hofstadter

Ireland must be the only country in Europe where less is more when it comes to cars, and where the worst possible version of any given car is the best possible version in Ireland.

In every other country, a 2.0 TDCi Mondeo is a better car than the 1.6. Not so in Ireland, where the 2.0 is seen as somehow being worse because of the "large engine":eek::rolleyes: (and the "high tax" even though it is €225 for the 2.0 as opposed to €160 for the 1.6) despite the fact that it has a minimum of 25 bhp more, which is a lot when you're only starting with 115 in the 1.6 TDCi.

Then there is spec, or rather the lack of it. I've just come back from a holiday in France, where even the likes of Renault Clios have climate control, and there are even Toyotas with a bit of spec, even stuff like the Yaris out there will have a/c, alloys, fogs etc etc. Even little Ford Kas will have air con and fogs and electric windows - electric windows aren't even standard on the poverty spec Ka over here. It's embarrassing to be back in Ireland to see all the poverty spec stripped out rubbish that passes as 'cars' over here.

Any Ford I saw was a Ghia or a Titanium (and the proper Ghia and Titanium, not the watered down versions we get here where Ford takes out some of the things that Ghias and Titaniums have as standard elsewhere to bring the price down).

Again, in every other country more spec is a good thing, in Ireland, it's "yet another thing to go wrong":rolleyes:?

There is a car loving culture in the UK, as evidenced by the amount of hot hatches sold over there (of course the backward Paddys don't buy such things), but again you can be sure that the vast majority of Brits see a car as merely a more convenient mode of transport.

Where did we get this retarded attitude when it comes to cars? Of course, some will say that 'sure isn't a car only to get you from a to b', but France is not exactly noted for being a haven for petrolheads either. How come people who have no interest in cars elsewhere actually recognise what a nice version of any given car is and will buy cars with some spec and a decent engine?

Some might say that there is no 'car culture' in this country because we don't build any of them. Well, we built Fords in Cork for many many years, and we built Toyotas and VWs in Dublin as well. Also, Ford is of Irish origin, with Henry Ford's Grandfather being from West Cork.

To this day, we still make lots of car related equipement, mirrors, other electronic components, you name it, we make it, so we do have car manufacturing in our genes.

So why are we so special in this country when it comes to cars, and what, if anything can be done about it? We don't see Paddy spec TVs, or Paddy spec computers where all the good stuff is stripped out of them, so why should and indeed why are cars different?

Stainless_Steel

Ever heard of VRT?

Brand new cars are more expensive here. Hence people go for the more affordable specs. The market has adjusted to this fact and it is actually difficult to get the higher spec models.

FrontDoor

You can't have been in France? French people don't give a fcuk about their cars.

L1011

VRT. Slavish devotion to Japanese brands. Slavish devotion to car age (newer) over quality.

One or more applies in virtually every case.

gerarda

Most people in this country just want something that fulfills there needs. I don't see what is "retarded" about buying a solid reliable car that wont cost a fortune to run or maintain.

Stainless_Steel

Re air con lacking from cars - we live in Ireland!!

Voodoomelon

You see this from the moment you start driving. I remember being told that anything larger than a 1.2 litre is FAR too big to be starting out in. You need to learn in something smaller first.

Cost was not the reason, just small minded logic.

Mister Jingles

Voodoomelon wrote: »

You see this from the moment you start driving. I remember being told that anything larger than a 1.2 litre is FAR too big to be starting out in. You need to learn in something smaller first.

Cost was not the reason, just small minded logic.

You've hit the nail on the head there. I keep getting told that a 1.6 Focus h/b is far to big in both engine and size for me to have as a first car. Yet I can insure one cheaper then a punto and a few other small engined cars. Might not be as cheap on petrol but I'm okay with that. I've also being told before that anything bigger then a 1.2 would be too hard to maintain ? How ?

I come from a family where anything over 1.6 is just too big. Come to think of it I can't think of anyone other then one of my uncles who has anything over 1.6, and I've a big enough family. It does be quite funny explaining the engines that do be in most car in the US.

delthedriver

Mister Jingles wrote: »

You've hit the nail on the head there. I keep getting told that a 1.6 Focus h/b is far to big in both engine and size for me to have as a first car. Yet I can insure one cheaper then a punto and a few other small engined cars. Might not be as cheap on petrol but I'm okay with that. I've also being told before that anything bigger then a 1.2 would be too hard to maintain ? How ?

Totally agree with you. By the way I reckon the Focus is more reliable and safer than the Punto.

Mister Jingles

delthedriver wrote: »

Totally agree with you. By the way I reckon the Focus is more reliable and safer than the Punto.

B]RANT[/BI know that yea, but sure in Ireland when your young, your never right. B]RANT[/B

I remember reading on here before a couple of years ago that Skoda cars were a higher spec then the ones over in the UK ? This true ?

Pdfile

MYOB wrote: »

VRT. Slavish devotion to Japanese brands. Slavish devotion to car age (newer) over quality.

One or more applies in virtually every case.

dont forget price fixing, its been ripe the last 20 years so... :mad:

Anan1

captainspeed wrote: »

So why are we so special in this country when it comes to cars, and what, if anything can be done about it? We don't see Paddy spec TVs, or Paddy spec computers where all the good stuff is stripped out of them, so why should and indeed why are cars different?

Because that's what Irish buyers want. You may as well ask why the Irish dress so badly, or why we consistently vote in unprincipled and dishonest politicians. Freedom is, among other things, the freedom to buy cars you don't like.

Also, if we actually get down to it we'll probably find that you and I have totally different ideas about what spec is worth paying for. The best way to keep both of us happy is to offer a low standard spec with plenty of available options.

SuperGrover

So, you're trying to sell your car. It has aircon and satnav or whatever. There's no big rush by anyone to take it off your hands, therefore the entire country is retarded?

Have I got this right?

Theta

Mister Jingles wrote: »

You've hit the nail on the head there. I keep getting told that a 1.6 Focus h/b is far to big in both engine and size for me to have as a first car. Yet I can insure one cheaper then a punto and a few other small engined cars. Might not be as cheap on petrol but I'm okay with that. I've also being told before that anything bigger then a 1.2 would be too hard to maintain ? How ?

I come from a family where anything over 1.6 is just too big. Come to think of it I can't think of anyone other then one of my uncles who has anything over 1.6, and I've a big enough family. It does be quite funny explaining the engines that do be in most car in the US.

The same was said to me when I got a 2L turbo for my first car but I managed to be lucky and get a good spec one that was pretty much in brand new condition I haven't seen another with as many extras on it.

Valetta

captainspeed wrote: »

So why are we so special in this country when it comes to cars, and what, if anything can be done about it? We don't see Paddy spec TVs, or Paddy spec computers where all the good stuff is stripped out of them, so why should and indeed why are cars different?

Genuine question:
Why are you so bothered about what other people drive?

Anan1

Valetta wrote: »

Genuine question:
Why are you so bothered about what other people drive?

In fairness to the OP, what other people buy new determines the choice of used cars available to him.

piston

The majority of Irish people just want something reasonably priced and reliable that will take them to where they want to go with minimal hassle. I don't see anything wrong with that. The obsession with Japanese cars in this country is probably because the Japs mastered the art of building cars which fit the bill before the Europeans did.

Speaking personally, I have never felt the need for a car kitted out with gadgets and prefer simple cars. The important point to me is how does the car drive, not how many electrical gadgets it's got. All this stuff adds weight, lightweight cars always feel more nimble on the road. As far as performance goes, it's nice to have a bit of power, but the fact remains than just about any car built from the late 1960s onwards is perfectly capable of getting you penalty points.

maidhc

This thread is boring.

Who cares, let people buy what they want. We have a plentiful supply of every sort of cars both here, and from our nearest neighbour.

The Idyll Race

Another way of looking at it is that if you want a lo-spec, grey Japanese car with no air con, Ireland is the place to be!

Potential-Monke

For me, at the moment, it's tax related. I won't be in any position anytime in the near future to buy a 08+, so i'm stuck in old tax land. I would love to have an older Mitsi GTO, VR4, Jag, etc but fooked if i'm paying €1500+ a year in tax, can barely afford the €600+ i'm paying for a 2L.

Most people today want cheap, low running cost, etc. If people didn't want cheap i don't think a 1.2l diesel engine would have been invented (slight sarcasm).

sean1141

Mister Jingles wrote: »

I remember reading on here before a couple of years ago that Skoda cars were a higher spec then the ones over in the UK ? This true ?

The mk2 octavia vrs was better speced here than the one sold in the U.K. Cant remember off the top of my head what the differance was but it was minor. Something like 18' wheels as standard here and only an option in the UK. Maybe cruise control also.. someone else will know for sure!

Anan1

Potential-Monke wrote: »

For me, at the moment, it's tax related. I won't be in any position anytime in the near future to buy a 08+, so i'm stuck in old tax land. I would love to have an older Mitsi GTO, VR4, Jag, etc but fooked if i'm paying €1500+ a year in tax, can barely afford the €600+ i'm paying for a 2L.

People forget that if bigger-engined older cars were cheaper to tax then they'd be correspondingly more expensive to buy.

haulagebasher

I guess its just becasue the majority of people are not car enthusiasts. Most folk just want a reliable, comfortable way of getting from A to B with a minimum of hassle.The likes of foglights and stuff when they are installed are rarely if ever used anyway. Anyone i saw with auto cliamte control don't even use it: they still just turn it on/off up/down depending if they are hot or cold.And in fainess, the more gimmicks are in a car it IS more likely that somthing will go wrong, and these days dealers charge $$$$ for correcting even trivial faults. I have a very basic Kia I got last year becasue I wanted something simple and strightforward with no hassle. I have better things to be doning than wrangling with a dealer as to why gimmicks X,Y and Z aren't working. Does the job perfectly and is cheap to run and maintain. Haven't had any problems. I opted for standard profile tyres and steel wheels as low profiles w. alloys just get pinched and beat up easier. As for engine sizes, shure look, your bhp and 0-60 time etc etc is only a concern of enthusiasts and petrol heads. It has absolutely no bearing on the lives of most people who only need a car for going to/from work and running down to Tesco twice a week and maybe the odd road trip now and again.Vast majority will see running costs, reliability and durability as the important factors with decorations and various gimmicks coming in second place.

Tea 1000

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Thing is though, even when you're trying to sell the highest spec of a certain model for a very reasonable price, no one wants to buy it :pac:

I want to buy it... I just don't have the funds...

keithclancy

One thing I will say for Ireland is that it has a great second hand market.

Mainly due to the lunatics who replaced their car every 2 years.

In Holland and Germany the second hand market is pretty expensive.

Belgium I wouldn't bother, thing has probably been crashed or driven to shít.

France ... they just duct tape things back on.

Dr.Rieux

In Britain the Passat SE which I think is the equivalent of the Comfortline here comes with everything the Comfortline has except for the dual zone climat control which is a £500 option over there. That said even with ticking that option it could still be cheaper.

dar83

haulagebasher wrote: »

I guess its just becasue the majority of people are not car enthusiasts. Most folk just want a reliable, comfortable way of getting from A to B with a minimum of hassle.The likes of foglights and stuff when they are installed are rarely if ever used anyway. Anyone i saw with auto cliamte control don't even use it: they still just turn it on/off up/down depending if they are hot or cold.And in fainess, the more gimmicks are in a car it IS more likely that somthing will go wrong, and these days dealers charge $$$$ for correcting even trivial faults. I have a very basic Kia I got last year becasue I wanted something simple and strightforward with no hassle. I have better things to be doning than wrangling with a dealer as to why gimmicks X,Y and Z aren't working. Does the job perfectly and is cheap to run and maintain. Haven't had any problems. I opted for standard profile tyres and steel wheels as low profiles w. alloys just get pinched and beat up easier. As for engine sizes, shure look, your bhp and 0-60 time etc etc is only a concern of enthusiasts and petrol heads. It has absolutely no bearing on the lives of most people who only need a car for going to/from work and running down to Tesco twice a week and maybe the odd road trip now and again.Vast majority will see running costs, reliability and durability as the important factors with decorations and various gimmicks coming in second place.

Each to their own and everything, but you're exactly what's wrong with this country. :P

steel wheels in 2012?!

bijapos

French cars tend to have low spec as in Ireland. A/C has only become popular in the last few years due to it being offered as a special offer in some sort of upgraded pack. It's only of use in the south, in the north you won't need it much. Although the French always sold high specced cars such as Renault Baccara spec the vast majority were zero spec no nonsense cars. The french prefer it cheap and easy to fix, it's one of the reasons why there are so many 80's and 90's cars on the road. Along with this Peugeot kept producing the 205 for the French market long after the 206 was introduced and kept producing the 206 long after the 207 was produced.

For low spec go to Germany, look at 80's and 90's Mercs and BMW's on www.mobile.de and the spec is atrocious, the first E-Class Merc to have 4 x EW as standard was the 2003 W211, older cars had no extras apart from a basic radio kit. I've seen W126 V8's with no A/C (very common), cloth seats, no EW, no sunrrof and with low grade alloys. I've seen a lot of R129 (SL) with cloth seats and no A/C, plenty of them with a manual but we can give them the bennefit of the doubt and say it's a personal choice.

In Germany 3 door Golfs, Astra's, Focus' etc are very common, low spec models but the main thing is that it's a low spec Golf in the driveway and not a well specced Polo. UK, French and Italian BMW's and Mercs are usually much higher spec than their German counterparts. One of the reasons for the huge success of the Merc 190 in the 80's and the A-Class in the 90's-00's is the fact that they were cheap cars with a star on the bonnet, the fact that they are zero spec doesn't bother the average German.

Most people want affordable, trouble free motoring, and coupled with the insane prices dealers traditionally charge for basics like 4 X EW, leather and A/C it's no wonder people leave them off. This couple with the huge relative depreciation of these extras means people tend to shy away from them. You could also ask why a US version of a car is way better specced than a Euro one as well.

Incidentally if the Daily Mail or Clarkson wrote about "retarded backward Paddies" I wonder how you would react. And while your at it my advice is that if you want a car to your spec then go out and buy and brand new one.

MuppetCheck

You can have whatever spec you want in any car in reality. This notion of paddy spec cars is a bit misleading - most are at least equivalent to the UK for example, but Irish people do not pay for extras.

There are items that are standard on the continent for reasons other than luxury - air conditioning is a necessity if faced with 30 degree plus days. It can be easily done without in Ireland if someone wished.

Honey-ec

OSI wrote: »

What's your point? Aircon doesn't just cool the car. It also dries and cleans the air, and makes clearing and keeping clear, windows much quicker. It's also much easier to regulate the temperature in the car. Even when I bought the car in February I had the Air Con turned on every day.

I remember a couple of years ago when we had the heavy snow, I got stuck in traffic for 4 hours, and I could not keep the inside of the car cool, despite it being below freezing out.

Or, y'know, you could have just opened the window...

pajo1981

Sure what's the point in being Irish, if ye can't be a bit thick?

ABajaninCork

I tend to agree with the OP. Brought a car over which had climate control a/c, rear fogs, electric windows, and auto wipers. And this was a 2001 car!!

Anyway, had to sell it. Trying to buy a car over here with at least a/c is a joke! You could never sell/buy a car without a/c in London. You'd be asked if you were on drugs!

I now have a Fiesta which is great to drive, but sadly lacking on what I consider to be basic stuff. It has no a/c, and no temp gauge, no cigarette lighter (although port for plugging in Sat Nav), and no CD player. The lack of a/c is a problem to me as even if it's a relatively mild day, the car's like a sweat box!

Next time we buy a car, I'm going home to get one, bring it over and pay the VRT. Never again would I have a car without a/c - it's a joke!

I find the cars here very expensive and aren't good value for money TBH.

longhalloween

Voodoomelon wrote: »

You see this from the moment you start driving. I remember being told that anything larger than a 1.2 litre is FAR too big to be starting out in. You need to learn in something smaller first.

Cost was not the reason, just small minded logic.

But that's because your insurance is HUGE when you're starting out so a small engine brings down your quote.

Chuck Stone

OSI wrote: »

To open the window enough to cool the car down, I would be covered in snow. Or did you miss the part where I said it was snowing heavily?

Or you could have these fitted.

ThisRegard

bijapos wrote: »

French cars tend to have low spec as in Ireland. A/C has only become popular in the last few years due to it being offered as a special offer in some sort of upgraded pack.

The current generation of Renaults in Ireland come quite well, although sometimes oddly, spec'd. For example the base Megane will have steel wheels but comes with reverse parking sensors as standard. Everything above the base then has bluetooth, cruise control, at least aircon, alloys, fogs and all the fancy safety computers as standard but no, at least the mid level model anyway, reverse sensors.

Compare that to other manufacturers, many don't even offer bluetooth as standard on any of the range as it's an optional extra.

In the new Focus you still get windy rear windows and no bluetooth or cruise control until the very top spec. In the Insignia bluetooth didn't come as standard on any of the versions last time I checked although this may have changed with the current line up.

Chuck Stone

OSI wrote: »

Yes, allow me to uglify my car so I can open the window in the rain and snow. Or, I'll just keeping buying cars with AC.

Yep, because AC is vital for those four hours, blizzard conditions, traffic jams in temperate Ireland.

pcardin

haulagebasher wrote: »

The likes of foglights and stuff when they are installed are rarely if ever used anyway. .

the same can be said for any other lights here :pac:

WacoKid

VRT is the reason. Manufacturers ship low spec cars to Ireland to keep prices down and forecourt prices attractive.

We pay more money for less car than the rest of Europe.

pajo1981

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Yep, because AC is vital for those four hours, blizzard conditions, traffic jams in temperate Ireland.

Air con regulates the humidity in the cab which make the car a more comfortable place to be which isn't always possible by just opening a window.

Aircon epsecially when coupled with climate control is a complete winner for me personally.

Leonard Hofstadter

bijapos wrote: »

French cars tend to have low spec as in Ireland. A/C has only become popular in the last few years due to it being offered as a special offer in some sort of upgraded pack. It's only of use in the south, in the north you won't need it much. Although the French always sold high specced cars such as Renault Baccara spec the vast majority were zero spec no nonsense cars. The french prefer it cheap and easy to fix, it's one of the reasons why there are so many 80's and 90's cars on the road. Along with this Peugeot kept producing the 205 for the French market long after the 206 was introduced and kept producing the 206 long after the 207 was produced.

I disagree, I've been to France quite a few times now and I have never seen a poverty spec car the way you would here. It's the same story in Portugal, Spain, the UK and Germany in my experience.

Even 80s cars like the 205 will have things like central locking and rev counters etc, naturally the Paddy spec cars didn't. In Spain it's the same, I remember being in Spain back in the 90s and you'd even see Corsa As with stuff like proper headrests, rev counters, wheel covers, seatbelts in the back, automatic chokes, and many had fuel injection. In backward old Ireland you couldn't even get a Corsa A with fuel injection (or if you could, nobody bought then) until the very end when fuel injection basically became mandatory when the EU decided that all cars needed to have catalytic converters.

It is indeed true to say that the basic versions of a German spec car are just that, but the difference is that nobody buys them stripped out, and they don't go for the poverty spec engine either. The best selling 5 series over there is the 530d, here obviously it's the 520d. Even back in the 90s German 5 series were fitted with leather, climate, alloys, fogs, all the kind of things that the Irish never bothered with. In the UK of course BMW sold SE spec cars, which we never got until 2004.

At the end of the day, Irish people will go for the cheapest possible version of any given car and be done with it. Specs are not as bad now as they used to be, and to be fair I have not seen too many poverty spec new model Focuses (which still don't come with a/c as standard:eek:) but there is an unreal amount of total poverty spec Paddy spec Toyotas and the likes still being sold.

VRT is not a valid excuse either, for the overwhelming majority of cars, VRT is at most 60-70% of what it was before the VRT system changed - on some cars it is less than half of what it used to be.

Also, the Dutch have higher rates of their equivalent of VRT, and you don't see them skimping on engines or spec the way people in backward old Ireland do.

Regarding air conditioning, I currently have a car without it, but I had a car with it before, and never again would I buy a car without a/c - it is absolute torture during the winter months or in the rain not having a car with a/c - as people who have cars with a/c and know how to use it properly know, it's fantastic for dehumidifying the cabin, getting rid of condensation/ice in the car when it's cold very quickly, and when the car is warmed up, a/c prevents the cabin from fogging up. Obviously on the rare occasions we get decent weather it's fantastic as well - personally I'd rather not sweat like a pig when driving on a hot day, yes you can open the windows, but it's nowhere near as effective, and at speed it makes the car so much noisier.

bijapos

ThisRegard wrote: »

The current generation of Renaults in Ireland come quite well, although sometimes oddly, spec'd. For example the base Megane will have steel wheels but comes with reverse parking sensors as standard. Everything above the base then has bluetooth, cruise control, at least aircon, alloys, fogs and all the fancy safety computers as standard but no, at least the mid level model anyway, reverse sensors.

Compare that to other manufacturers, many don't even offer bluetooth as standard on any of the range as it's an optional extra.

In the new Focus you still get windy rear windows and no bluetooth or cruise control until the very top spec. In the Insignia bluetooth didn't come as standard on any of the versions last time I checked although this may have changed with the current line up.

Yes, this is part of Renaults big international push, for example here they were (are?) selling Meganes for €14999.

For a good idea of French no nonsense thrift, they are selling the Peugeot 208 but the 206 is still available as a much cheaper new car alternative through Peugeots own French website.

pcardin

OSI wrote: »

Jesus. Look, I used that one example to make a point that A/C isn't all about keeping a car cool on a 30+C summer day. It's not like it's the only time I would have ever used it.

You are trying to argue with a person that was so well described in OP. Mission Impossible.

Tea 1000

A lot of cars here have the same spec options as the UK. Maybe the next model up of a given car has a higher price premium than UK ones do, or maybe the 2nd hand market dictates that your extra money is wasted at trade in time are deciding factors.
To be honest though, I think anyone who spends €3,000 on a built-in Sat Nav in Ireland on a car they intend to keep for a year or two is a bonehead!
There are some extra's that I'd like to have but just can't be justified. Like the Sport Pack on a Passat, darkens the windows, adds a bit of chrome and changes the wheels from 17" to 18" for €1,200? That's rip-off territory. I've seen a 1.6 diesel Passat with that option ticked. For what? Alloys look a little better, but you're adding a good €80 per tyre over 17" every time you change, which is frequently on any tyre hungry VAG car.
Nope, I'd opt for a Comfortline spec 2 litre diesel instead for the same or less money.
Engine is always top of my list in terms of spec choice for a given car. Give me a base 530d any day ahead of a similarly priced loaded to the gills 520d. Fair play to anyone who can spend €10k to €15k on extras on a car, but that's a fair whack of money that adds no real value to your car at resale time, and it's no nicer to drive. More cylinders and cc's is the place I'd put it!

Honey-ec

OSI wrote: »

To open the window enough to cool the car down, I would be covered in snow. Or did you miss the part where I said it was snowing heavily?

Yeah, I did, cause you never said it was snowing heavily at the time, just that is was during the winter of the snow.

jackofalltrades

captainspeed wrote:

Then there is spec, or rather the lack of it. I've just come back from a holiday in France, where even the likes of Renault Clios have climate control, and there are even Toyotas with a bit of spec, even stuff like the Yaris out there will have a/c, alloys, fogs etc etc. Even little Ford Kas will have air con and fogs and electric windows - electric windows aren't even standard on the poverty spec Ka over here. It's embarrassing to be back in Ireland to see all the poverty spec stripped out rubbish that passes as 'cars' over here.

Never understood the value Irish dealers/consumers put on fog lights, especially when there's other extra's like cruise control or climate control that would be a lot more useful.

bijapos

captainspeed wrote: »

I disagree, I've been to France quite a few times now and I have never seen a poverty spec car the way you would here. It's the same story in Portugal, Spain, the UK and Germany in my experience.

Even 80s cars like the 205 will have things like central locking and rev counters etc, naturally the Paddy spec cars didn't. In Spain it's the same, I remember being in Spain back in the 90s and you'd even see Corsa As with stuff like proper headrests, rev counters, wheel covers, seatbelts in the back, automatic chokes, and many had fuel injection. In backward old Ireland you couldn't even get a Corsa A with fuel injection (or if you could, nobody bought then) until the very end when fuel injection basically became mandatory when the EU decided that all cars needed to have catalytic converters.

I lived in France in the 90's for a couple of years, poverty spec was all the rage, central locking "avec plip" was all the rage for a while so it was added on at later stages as a no cost extra, very few ordered it new. What the French are into are their small cars and as such high spec versions were sold, the Baccara line by renault gave you leather, elec seats, a/c and a lot more in Clios etc but at the cost of a base R21.

Fuel injection came in earlier on the continent as a result of governments trying to combat acid rain and after the intro of cats as you rightly said.

It is indeed true to say that the basic versions of a German spec car are just that, but the difference is that nobody buys them stripped out, and they don't go for the poverty spec engine either. The best selling 5 series over there is the 530d, here obviously it's the 520d. Even back in the 90s German 5 series were fitted with leather, climate, alloys, fogs, all the kind of things that the Irish never bothered with. In the UK of course BMW sold SE spec cars, which we never got until 2004.

I spent 5 years in Germany, base spec big cars were all the rage, I just checked mobile.de, less than half of W124's for sale have a/c, about half of E34's have it and thats because the run out models in the mid 90's had it free. I had an E34 535i for a while, zero options apart from sport seats, the decent radio cost over €1000 at the time to have it included from the factory! I used to export cars to Africa with another Irish guy, it was a almost impossible to find a W124 diesel with a/c, no chance with a 190D, for these we went to France or Italy.

The Germans have only learnt to spec their cars in the past 10-12 years.

mitosis

OP:
The use of the term "Paddy spec" is impolite at best, denigrating at worst. I don't note you using "Fritz spec" when you refer to German cars, or "Pierre spec" for French.

It would cost you the same number of characters to say Irish spec.

People create their own market availability. If Irish people want higher spec cars they will be more available. Obviously for the majority of people a car is a tool, so they will buy the best suited one for the job in hand at the best price. No reason they should be abused for it.

A car without Cruise Control and Climate Control is not sh**e, as you put it, one which won't start in the mornings would be.

Solair

I've driven plenty of cars in France with VERY basic spec. It's not at all unusual to have no air conditioning or other niceties on cars.

It's all about taxation and a culture of trying to avoid it.

Driving a non-air-conditioned car in a climate like that in France, is a LOT more unpleasant than doing so in Ireland.

I would definitely say that A/C is optional in Ireland. It's handy for clearing the windows quickly, but the air outside is basically air conditioned anyway. It's never hotter than about 23ºC in Ireland and most of the year it's between about 10ºC and 16ºC, rendering A/C about as useful as a chocolate tea pot, other than for clearing the windows.

PassMoz

Most people just want a car to get from a to b.

Lower specs give cheaper tax most of the time, cheaper insurance, less worry and less maintenance cost.

You are a minority, cop on.

PassMoz

PassMoz wrote: »

Most people just want a car to get from a to b.

Lower specs give cheaper tax most of the time, cheaper insurance, less worry and less maintenance cost.

You are a minority, cop on.

Agreed this thread is silly at best,
who gives a FF what cars other people have?
Saying that I like a few extra but most are useless!

Hay_man

PassMoz wrote: »

Most people just want a car to get from a to b.

Lower specs give cheaper tax most of the time, cheaper insurance, less worry and less maintenance cost.

You are a minority, cop on.