We should build wind turbines underground!

delad · 06-08-2012 02:37PM #1

No no, hang on, hear me out. So it seems the main opposition to wind turbines is that they will ruin scenic areas and the countryside. Since most of our wind power will be generated on the west coast of Ireland this is a fair enough argument. But what if the turbines were stored underground and only came up above ground at night time. This would annoy no one since they wouldnt be able to see them in the dark. They could also be brought above ground at other select times during the day, like during times of strong or gale force winds. Restrictions could be placed on them also, eg, they are only allowed to be above ground for a maximum or 4 hours during daylight.

The UK want to buy wind energy from us and have said it will bring significant wealth to Ireland:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jun/18/ireland-wind-power-grid

So is this idea feasible?

Biggins · 06-08-2012 02:38PM

Jeasus! We'll be burying the dead in the open air next!

Seriously - the idea is always good but look how long it took just to get the Dublin port tunnel.
Don't hold your breath on this one.

CSU · 06-08-2012 02:40PM

...Id imagine the cost for each one would be increased tenfold in order to do it that way...is it not windier at daytime?

TBH, wind turbines are not a great eyesore for me...I actually think they're pretty cool looking

Mr Benevolent · 06-08-2012 02:41PM

Wind turbines are all over Europe and don't piss anybody off. Only in Ireland would we scorn free energy because some fucker wants an uninterrupted view of the mountains where their grandad was surprise butt-sexed by the Black & Tans.

Where To · 06-08-2012 02:41PM

Great idea. Solar panels should only be used at night also.

CSU · 06-08-2012 02:41PM

Confab wrote: »

Only in Ireland would we scorn free energy because some fucker wants an uninterrupted view of the mountains where their grandad was surprise butt-sexed by the Black & Tans.

Pics or GTFO:mad:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 06-08-2012 02:43PM

Giant slabs of earth moving to one side by mechanics and giant windmills eemrging upwards from underground? Sounds like something akin to a evil Bond villain.

bijapos · 06-08-2012 02:45PM

Confab wrote: »

Wind turbines are all over Europe and don't piss anybody off.

They piss a lot of people off all over Europe, there is a lot of NIMBYism and opposition to them in every country.

Only in Ireland would we scorn free energy

It's not free, it costs a huge amount of investment and government subsidies to get the turbines, the networks and associated infrastructure set up.

That said I'm hugely in favour of renewable power.

Colmustard · 06-08-2012 02:45PM

We shouldn't build wind turbines these are the white elephants of the day, they have not succeeded in getting one gram of CO2 out of the atmosphere what they have succeeded in doing is employ about 200 thousand danes and germans who has pushed them into the EU energy charter.

We are been had.
From Des Spiegel

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,606763,00.html

juan.kerr · 06-08-2012 02:45PM

So we potentially double the production / rollout and maintenance costs for the turbines AND cut the time they can be used in half (at least). Not sure this is feasible.

delad · 06-08-2012 02:47PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Giant slabs of earth moving to one side by mechanics and giant windmills eemrging upwards from underground? Sounds like something akin to a evil Bond villain.

we already have portable toilets that come up out of the ground at night time

ejmaztec · 06-08-2012 02:48PM

Where To wrote: »

Great idea. Solar panels should only be used at night also.

.. as long as they're only installed in cellars.

delad · 06-08-2012 02:49PM

juan.kerr wrote: »

So we potentially double the production / rollout and maintenance costs for the turbines AND cut the time they can be used in half (at least). Not sure this is feasible.

Double production/rollout and maintenance costs? Where did you get that estimate? Oh yeah you pulled it out of your ass didn't you. Maintenance and production costs would be reduced because the turbines wouldn't be in operation for as long, and also wouldn't be exposed to the elements for as long.

juan.kerr · 06-08-2012 02:49PM

delad wrote: »

we already have portable toilets that come up out of the ground at night time

What's all this now?

Colmustard · 06-08-2012 02:52PM

x

The MiniVan · 06-08-2012 02:59PM

delad wrote: »

Double production/rollout and maintenance costs? Where did you get that estimate? Oh yeah you pulled it out of your ass didn't you. Maintenance and production costs would be reduced because the turbines wouldn't be in operation for as long, and also wouldn't be exposed to the elements for as long.

OK do you have any idea how big those turbines are?I know they might look quite small far away up on hills from you but they are in fact MASSIVE!Try and think of the Father Ted episode where Ted is teaching Dougal about near and far away:D

Now imagine the cost of having to dig down over 20 meters for EACH turbine and the enormus cost and amount of electricity (this is what the turbines are suppose to be generating in the first place,kinda counter productive now aint ya:D) to rise these huge,several ton machines out of the ground everyday!

Sorry dude I dont think your idea is gonna catch on:)

juan.kerr · 06-08-2012 03:00PM

delad wrote: »

Double production/rollout and maintenance costs? Where did you get that estimate? Oh yeah you pulled it out of your ass didn't you. Maintenance and production costs would be reduced because the turbines wouldn't be in operation for as long, and also wouldn't be exposed to the elements for as long.

:rolleyes:

What about building all the equipment that raises and lowers the turbines?

What about maintaining all the equipment that raises and lowers the turbines? Will they raise straight up out of the ground or swing up? Will there be a cover that slides across when it is 'underground'? The more moving parts the more maintenance costs.

If anything I lowballed the estimate. Jesus wept.

Any more great ideas? What about the inflatable dart board?

CSU · 06-08-2012 03:03PM

juan.kerr wrote: »

What about the inflatable dart board?

...I'd buy one:D

Joey the lips · 06-08-2012 03:06PM

I thought they done this already. Is this not what a wind tunnel is????

http://www.google.ie/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1280&bih=717&tbm=isch&tbnid=cbiJc546XVo6qM:&imgrefurl=http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/w/wind_tunnel.asp&docid=GR4XCwn_OZs_cM&imgurl=http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/tzu/lowres/tzun972l.jpg&w=354&h=400&ei=6c4fUN6bMMW5hAfU6ICQBQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=380&vpy=143&dur=1088&hovh=239&hovw=211&tx=110&ty=118&sig=106910272185974827884&page=1&tbnh=159&tbnw=141&start=0&ndsp=16&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:73

ejmaztec · 06-08-2012 03:07PM

We could have a network of pipes to all homes in the country from Leinster House, and power the whole system with wind and piss.

irelandrover · 06-08-2012 03:09PM

The MiniVan wrote: »

OK do you have any idea how big those turbines are?I know they might look quite small far away up on hills from you but they are in fact MASSIVE!Try and think of the Father Ted episode where Ted is teaching Dougal about near and far away:D

Now imagine the cost of having to dig down over 20 meters for EACH turbine and the enormus cost and amount of electricity (this is what the turbines are suppose to be generating in the first place,kinda counter productive now aint ya:D) to rise these huge,several ton machines out of the ground everyday!

Sorry dude I dont think your idea is gonna catch on:)

probably have to dig down about 120m actually. width would be close to 90m. This idea probably isn't feasible.

marshbaboon · 06-08-2012 03:10PM

Article is TLDR. How do we make the wind underground? Giant fans powered by peat burning power stations?

Heroditas · 06-08-2012 03:11PM

The MiniVan wrote: »

delad wrote: »

Double production/rollout and maintenance costs? Where did you get that estimate? Oh yeah you pulled it out of your ass didn't you. Maintenance and production costs would be reduced because the turbines wouldn't be in operation for as long, and also wouldn't be exposed to the elements for as long.

OK do you have any idea how big those turbines are?I know they might look quite small far away up on hills from you but they are in fact MASSIVE!Try and think of the Father Ted episode where Ted is teaching Dougal about near and far away:D

Now imagine the cost of having to dig down over 20 meters for EACH turbine and the enormus cost and amount of electricity (this is what the turbines are suppose to be generating in the first place,kinda counter productive now aint ya:D) to rise these huge,several ton machines out of the ground everyday!

Sorry dude I dont think your idea is gonna catch on:)

Dig down 20 metres?
Turbine towers are about 70m high and getting taller.
The span of the blades is about 140m

The MiniVan · 06-08-2012 03:14PM

irelandrover wrote: »

probably have to dig down about 120m actually. width would be close to 90m. This idea probably isn't feasible.

Thats why I posted over 20 meters?

But hey thanks for clarifying again what I had justed posted about the idea not gonna work??

crazy cabbage · 06-08-2012 03:14PM

not a fear of it.

How much energy will it take to lift a 80 foot turbine with 140 odd meter wing span out of a 150 foot hole?

I would think that is alot of energy... I would be very suprised if the turbine could generate that amount of energy in the 10 odd hours of darkness.

No offense but simple NO

Mint Sauce · 06-08-2012 03:15PM

delad wrote: »

No no, hang on, hear me out. So it seems the main opposition to wind turbines is that they will ruin scenic areas and the countryside. Since most of our wind power will be generated on the west coast of Ireland this is a fair enough argument. But what if the turbines were stored underground and only came up above ground at night time. This would annoy no one since they wouldnt be able to see them in the dark. They could also be brought above ground at other select times during the day, like during times of strong or gale force winds. Restrictions could be placed on them also, eg, they are only allowed to be above ground for a maximum or 4 hours during daylight.

The UK want to buy wind energy from us and have said it will bring significant wealth to Ireland:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jun/18/ireland-wind-power-grid

So is this idea feasible?

Have you seen the size of the turbines. I dont know much about them but would imagine their footprint size and their height alone would make it a none runner to have them emerge from the ground on demand.

CSU · 06-08-2012 03:20PM

...anyway, the west coast of Ireland really isn't suitable even for normal turbines - they'd be battered to a pulp in those winds and would probably have to be disengaged most of the time due to excessive wind speeds:rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u14tBwO5QVQ

Colmustard · 06-08-2012 03:24PM

crazy cabbage wrote: »

not a fear of it.

How much energy will it take to lift a 80 foot turbine with 140 odd meter wing span out of a 150 foot hole?

I would think that is alot of energy... I would be very suprised if the turbine could generate that amount of energy in the 10 odd hours of darkness.

No offense but simple NO

They are really ridicules things, they don't work when the wind is to weak or to strong so they only generate power 25 to 40% of the time. Denmark who have built most these things have not succeeded in shutting down one conventional power station as its wind today none tomorrow.

So these things have a hand in the building of gas power stations right across Europe because with gas you can shut them down easilly when the wind picks up.

But that policy has made Europe dependent on a despotic Russia who is not shy about using it''s gas pipeline in global politics. In other words they have us by the short and curlies and they know it.

Wind turbines should be gently put aside and forgotten about.

I will also mention the amount of extra grid these things have demanded
with that investment we could have build a clean coal station.

Zab · 06-08-2012 03:28PM

Heroditas wrote: »

Turbine towers are about 70m high and getting taller.
The span of the blades is about 140m

Yeah, creating the notorious death zone at the base of the tower.

pljudge321 · 06-08-2012 03:32PM

crazy cabbage wrote: »

not a fear of it.

How much energy will it take to lift a 80 foot turbine with 140 odd meter wing span out of a 150 foot hole?

I would think that is alot of energy... I would be very suprised if the turbine could generate that amount of energy in the 10 odd hours of darkness.

No offense but simple NO

Assume a weight of about 350 tonnes a height of 90m and a rated power of 2 MW.

That's (350*1000*9.8*90) = 308 700 000 J in energy required to lift it.

Convert that to MWh and it requires 0.08575 MWh of energy. For the turbine to earn the energy back it would have to generate a average power of at least 0.5% its rated power over the ten hours of operation.

I imagine your face to be somewhat like this :eek:

The MiniVan · 06-08-2012 03:32PM

Zab wrote: »

Yeah, creating the notorious death zone at the base of the tower.

Care to elaborate on the death zone part?Never heard of it?

We should build wind turbines underground!

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