We should build wind turbines underground!

delad

No no, hang on, hear me out. So it seems the main opposition to wind turbines is that they will ruin scenic areas and the countryside. Since most of our wind power will be generated on the west coast of Ireland this is a fair enough argument. But what if the turbines were stored underground and only came up above ground at night time. This would annoy no one since they wouldnt be able to see them in the dark. They could also be brought above ground at other select times during the day, like during times of strong or gale force winds. Restrictions could be placed on them also, eg, they are only allowed to be above ground for a maximum or 4 hours during daylight.

The UK want to buy wind energy from us and have said it will bring significant wealth to Ireland:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jun/18/ireland-wind-power-grid

So is this idea feasible?

Biggins

Jeasus! We'll be burying the dead in the open air next!

Seriously - the idea is always good but look how long it took just to get the Dublin port tunnel.
Don't hold your breath on this one.

CSU

...Id imagine the cost for each one would be increased tenfold in order to do it that way...is it not windier at daytime?

TBH, wind turbines are not a great eyesore for me...I actually think they're pretty cool looking

Mr Benevolent

Wind turbines are all over Europe and don't piss anybody off. Only in Ireland would we scorn free energy because some fucker wants an uninterrupted view of the mountains where their grandad was surprise butt-sexed by the Black & Tans.

Where To

Great idea. Solar panels should only be used at night also.

CSU

Confab wrote: »

Only in Ireland would we scorn free energy because some fucker wants an uninterrupted view of the mountains where their grandad was surprise butt-sexed by the Black & Tans.

Pics or GTFO:mad:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Giant slabs of earth moving to one side by mechanics and giant windmills eemrging upwards from underground? Sounds like something akin to a evil Bond villain.

bijapos

Confab wrote: »

Wind turbines are all over Europe and don't piss anybody off.

They piss a lot of people off all over Europe, there is a lot of NIMBYism and opposition to them in every country.

Only in Ireland would we scorn free energy

It's not free, it costs a huge amount of investment and government subsidies to get the turbines, the networks and associated infrastructure set up.


That said I'm hugely in favour of renewable power.

Colmustard

We shouldn't build wind turbines these are the white elephants of the day, they have not succeeded in getting one gram of CO2 out of the atmosphere what they have succeeded in doing is employ about 200 thousand danes and germans who has pushed them into the EU energy charter.


We are been had.
From Des Spiegel

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,606763,00.html

juan.kerr

So we potentially double the production / rollout and maintenance costs for the turbines AND cut the time they can be used in half (at least). Not sure this is feasible.

delad

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Giant slabs of earth moving to one side by mechanics and giant windmills eemrging upwards from underground? Sounds like something akin to a evil Bond villain.

we already have portable toilets that come up out of the ground at night time

ejmaztec

Where To wrote: »

Great idea. Solar panels should only be used at night also.

.. as long as they're only installed in cellars.

delad

juan.kerr wrote: »

So we potentially double the production / rollout and maintenance costs for the turbines AND cut the time they can be used in half (at least). Not sure this is feasible.

Double production/rollout and maintenance costs? Where did you get that estimate? Oh yeah you pulled it out of your ass didn't you. Maintenance and production costs would be reduced because the turbines wouldn't be in operation for as long, and also wouldn't be exposed to the elements for as long.

juan.kerr

delad wrote: »

we already have portable toilets that come up out of the ground at night time

What's all this now?

Colmustard

x

The MiniVan

delad wrote: »

Double production/rollout and maintenance costs? Where did you get that estimate? Oh yeah you pulled it out of your ass didn't you. Maintenance and production costs would be reduced because the turbines wouldn't be in operation for as long, and also wouldn't be exposed to the elements for as long.

OK do you have any idea how big those turbines are?I know they might look quite small far away up on hills from you but they are in fact MASSIVE!Try and think of the Father Ted episode where Ted is teaching Dougal about near and far away:D

Now imagine the cost of having to dig down over 20 meters for EACH turbine and the enormus cost and amount of electricity (this is what the turbines are suppose to be generating in the first place,kinda counter productive now aint ya:D) to rise these huge,several ton machines out of the ground everyday!

Sorry dude I dont think your idea is gonna catch on:)

juan.kerr

delad wrote: »

Double production/rollout and maintenance costs? Where did you get that estimate? Oh yeah you pulled it out of your ass didn't you. Maintenance and production costs would be reduced because the turbines wouldn't be in operation for as long, and also wouldn't be exposed to the elements for as long.

:rolleyes:

What about building all the equipment that raises and lowers the turbines?

What about maintaining all the equipment that raises and lowers the turbines? Will they raise straight up out of the ground or swing up? Will there be a cover that slides across when it is 'underground'? The more moving parts the more maintenance costs.

If anything I lowballed the estimate. Jesus wept.

Any more great ideas? What about the inflatable dart board?

CSU

juan.kerr wrote: »

What about the inflatable dart board?

...I'd buy one:D

Joey the lips

I thought they done this already. Is this not what a wind tunnel is????

http://www.google.ie/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1280&bih=717&tbm=isch&tbnid=cbiJc546XVo6qM:&imgrefurl=http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/w/wind_tunnel.asp&docid=GR4XCwn_OZs_cM&imgurl=http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/tzu/lowres/tzun972l.jpg&w=354&h=400&ei=6c4fUN6bMMW5hAfU6ICQBQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=380&vpy=143&dur=1088&hovh=239&hovw=211&tx=110&ty=118&sig=106910272185974827884&page=1&tbnh=159&tbnw=141&start=0&ndsp=16&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:73

ejmaztec

We could have a network of pipes to all homes in the country from Leinster House, and power the whole system with wind and piss.

irelandrover

The MiniVan wrote: »

OK do you have any idea how big those turbines are?I know they might look quite small far away up on hills from you but they are in fact MASSIVE!Try and think of the Father Ted episode where Ted is teaching Dougal about near and far away:D

Now imagine the cost of having to dig down over 20 meters for EACH turbine and the enormus cost and amount of electricity (this is what the turbines are suppose to be generating in the first place,kinda counter productive now aint ya:D) to rise these huge,several ton machines out of the ground everyday!

Sorry dude I dont think your idea is gonna catch on:)

probably have to dig down about 120m actually. width would be close to 90m. This idea probably isn't feasible.

marshbaboon

Article is TLDR. How do we make the wind underground? Giant fans powered by peat burning power stations?

Heroditas

The MiniVan wrote: »

delad wrote: »

Double production/rollout and maintenance costs? Where did you get that estimate? Oh yeah you pulled it out of your ass didn't you. Maintenance and production costs would be reduced because the turbines wouldn't be in operation for as long, and also wouldn't be exposed to the elements for as long.

OK do you have any idea how big those turbines are?I know they might look quite small far away up on hills from you but they are in fact MASSIVE!Try and think of the Father Ted episode where Ted is teaching Dougal about near and far away:D

Now imagine the cost of having to dig down over 20 meters for EACH turbine and the enormus cost and amount of electricity (this is what the turbines are suppose to be generating in the first place,kinda counter productive now aint ya:D) to rise these huge,several ton machines out of the ground everyday!

Sorry dude I dont think your idea is gonna catch on:)

Dig down 20 metres?
Turbine towers are about 70m high and getting taller.
The span of the blades is about 140m

The MiniVan

irelandrover wrote: »

probably have to dig down about 120m actually. width would be close to 90m. This idea probably isn't feasible.

Thats why I posted over 20 meters?

But hey thanks for clarifying again what I had justed posted about the idea not gonna work??

crazy cabbage

not a fear of it.

How much energy will it take to lift a 80 foot turbine with 140 odd meter wing span out of a 150 foot hole?

I would think that is alot of energy... I would be very suprised if the turbine could generate that amount of energy in the 10 odd hours of darkness.

No offense but simple NO

Mint Sauce

delad wrote: »

No no, hang on, hear me out. So it seems the main opposition to wind turbines is that they will ruin scenic areas and the countryside. Since most of our wind power will be generated on the west coast of Ireland this is a fair enough argument. But what if the turbines were stored underground and only came up above ground at night time. This would annoy no one since they wouldnt be able to see them in the dark. They could also be brought above ground at other select times during the day, like during times of strong or gale force winds. Restrictions could be placed on them also, eg, they are only allowed to be above ground for a maximum or 4 hours during daylight.

The UK want to buy wind energy from us and have said it will bring significant wealth to Ireland:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jun/18/ireland-wind-power-grid

So is this idea feasible?

Have you seen the size of the turbines. I dont know much about them but would imagine their footprint size and their height alone would make it a none runner to have them emerge from the ground on demand.

CSU

...anyway, the west coast of Ireland really isn't suitable even for normal turbines - they'd be battered to a pulp in those winds and would probably have to be disengaged most of the time due to excessive wind speeds:rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u14tBwO5QVQ

Colmustard

crazy cabbage wrote: »

not a fear of it.

How much energy will it take to lift a 80 foot turbine with 140 odd meter wing span out of a 150 foot hole?

I would think that is alot of energy... I would be very suprised if the turbine could generate that amount of energy in the 10 odd hours of darkness.

No offense but simple NO

They are really ridicules things, they don't work when the wind is to weak or to strong so they only generate power 25 to 40% of the time. Denmark who have built most these things have not succeeded in shutting down one conventional power station as its wind today none tomorrow.

So these things have a hand in the building of gas power stations right across Europe because with gas you can shut them down easilly when the wind picks up.

But that policy has made Europe dependent on a despotic Russia who is not shy about using it''s gas pipeline in global politics. In other words they have us by the short and curlies and they know it.

Wind turbines should be gently put aside and forgotten about.

I will also mention the amount of extra grid these things have demanded
with that investment we could have build a clean coal station.

Zab

Heroditas wrote: »

Turbine towers are about 70m high and getting taller.
The span of the blades is about 140m

Yeah, creating the notorious death zone at the base of the tower.

pljudge321

crazy cabbage wrote: »

not a fear of it.

How much energy will it take to lift a 80 foot turbine with 140 odd meter wing span out of a 150 foot hole?

I would think that is alot of energy... I would be very suprised if the turbine could generate that amount of energy in the 10 odd hours of darkness.

No offense but simple NO

Assume a weight of about 350 tonnes a height of 90m and a rated power of 2 MW.

That's (350*1000*9.8*90) = 308 700 000 J in energy required to lift it.

Convert that to MWh and it requires 0.08575 MWh of energy. For the turbine to earn the energy back it would have to generate a average power of at least 0.5% its rated power over the ten hours of operation.

I imagine your face to be somewhat like this :eek:

The MiniVan

Zab wrote: »

Yeah, creating the notorious death zone at the base of the tower.

Care to elaborate on the death zone part?Never heard of it?

D1stant

delad wrote: »

No no, hang on, hear me out. So it seems the main opposition to wind turbines is that they will ruin scenic areas and the countryside. Since most of our wind power will be generated on the west coast of Ireland this is a fair enough argument. But what if the turbines were stored underground and only came up above ground at night time. This would annoy no one since they wouldnt be able to see them in the dark. They could also be brought above ground at other select times during the day, like during times of strong or gale force winds. Restrictions could be placed on them also, eg, they are only allowed to be above ground for a maximum or 4 hours during daylight.

The UK want to buy wind energy from us and have said it will bring significant wealth to Ireland:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jun/18/ireland-wind-power-grid

So is this idea feasible?

It would be fairly annoying to the poor unsuspecting cow that gets impaled on the fcuking thing

D1stant

CSU wrote: »

...Id imagine the cost for each one would be increased tenfold in order to do it that way...is it not windier at daytime?

Eh... no.


Did you ever hear the one about the Kerryman who wanted to travel to the Sun....

CSU

Check this out - seems feesable...

The problem with wind farms is that they’re stuck wherever they’ve been stationed. Granted, they’ve been installed in areas that benefit from high wind activity, but what if you had a portable wind farm that could follow you wherever you needed power? Enter the Mobile Cow Wind Turbine, designed by Pope Design!

The Mobile Cow Wind Turbine has the potential to solve energy issues wherever they might arise, as long as there is a strong wind blowing from the Cow's rear (even works when other Cow's pass wind). Consider it – be it a rock concert, a disaster relief mission or even a military operation – power is going to be needed and rather than using finite resources, what better way to offset any unfriendly eco-impact than to use the cow wind around you to diversify or completely power your energy needs?

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/christianp/christianp1109/christianp110900057/10648560-wind-turbine-in-the-field-of-cow.jpg

:D:D

Sea Sharp

I assumed you were going to suggest digging tunnels in cliffs and putting wind turbines in there.
Hmm,
/runs to patent office.

CSU

D1stant wrote: »

Eh... no.


Did you ever hear the one about the Kerryman who wanted to travel to the Sun....

...I thought I read somewhere before that average speeds during daylight hours where higher because of the heat pushing the air around...could be wrond, and nope - never heard that story...car to enlighten me?

JJJJNR

I quite like the look of them, then again I don't have one in my line of sight to my house, I do have a small electrical pylon that annoys me, because its pig ugly. There are some on the east coast and I honestly can't understand the issue with them, if they are out on the sea they should lash as many as they can all over the place and maybe we might be able to take off to Australia.

I like this idea/design of turning normal electrical poles into wind turbines, such an amazing use of existing infrastructure.

http://www.treehugger.com/sustainable-product-design/breakthrough-design-uses-electrical-towers-to-harvest-wind-power.html

Jesus Shaves

I'm all for natural energy sources no matter what it does to the scenery, the people complaining about really haven't got a clue about where we get out energy from at the moment and what effect it's having on the environment and the high costs involved in producing it.
We need to think towards the future but at the moment politicians are more worried about their pubs closing down due to lack of business than the important things

mconigol

CSU wrote: »

...anyway, the west coast of Ireland really isn't suitable even for normal turbines - they'd be battered to a pulp in those winds and would probably have to be disengaged most of the time due to excessive wind speeds:rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u14tBwO5QVQ

Think that's bad? You should check out this video. Hope people open their eyes soon and realise that we have to ban these car things. :rolleyes:

hoochis

delad wrote: »

No no, hang on, hear me out. So it seems the main opposition to wind turbines is that they will ruin scenic areas and the countryside. Since most of our wind power will be generated on the west coast of Ireland this is a fair enough argument. But what if the turbines were stored underground and only came up above ground at night time. This would annoy no one since they wouldnt be able to see them in the dark. They could also be brought above ground at other select times during the day, like during times of strong or gale force winds. Restrictions could be placed on them also, eg, they are only allowed to be above ground for a maximum or 4 hours during daylight.

The UK want to buy wind energy from us and have said it will bring significant wealth to Ireland:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jun/18/ireland-wind-power-grid

So is this idea feasible?

That idea is not feasible. Do you realise how big of a hole would be needed for just one turbine? It would take up as much space as the empire state building! And that is without taking into consideration the space required for the gear to lift the turbine!

TeddyTedson

Wouldn't crab people just sabotage them in years to come when we become dependent on them for power and take over from us

dj jarvis

jesus wept

do people just bang the keyboard with their forehead and expect intelligent comments to appear ?

the OP has a idea that in fact is POTENTIALLY workable , might not be financially viable in the current climate , but the price of oil is only going one way

they could be placed if not under ground then close to it - has no one come across telescopic's before ? high pressure hydraulics ?
also the windier areas dont need massively large ones , so the calculations done earlier on how much it would cost to " raise " the turbines is far from correct and a red herring ( does your face look like this :eek: ? )

so the power to drop and lift - easy

coastal area with a small bay , dam the sea end , use some of the power from the turbines to pump sea water into the dam , then when extra power is needed to lift/drop the turbines you release the sea water from the dam back into the sea - hydro power , this also can cover loss of production on windless days

it has been said by many many leading lights in the field of wind and hydro power that Ireland could be the " middle east " of green power in a decade , while only spending a 1/4 we used bailing out the banks

with some of the attitudes shown here, im not surprised ,we will still be 90% dependent on oil and gas imported, while surrounded by sea and living on the windiest rock in Europe

and we take offence to the stupid Irish joke's ?
im thinking the truth hurts

D1stant

CSU wrote: »

...I thought I read somewhere before that average speeds during daylight hours where higher because of the heat pushing the air around...could be wrond, and nope - never heard that story...car to enlighten me?

Over large land masses yes. West coast of Ireland, dont think there is any difference

The Kerryman travelled there at night so his spacecraft would not burn up....

dj jarvis

hoochis wrote: »

That idea is not feasible. Do you realise how big of a hole would be needed for just one turbine? It would take up as much space as the empire state building! And that is without taking into consideration the space required for the gear to lift the turbine!

think before you post - it DOES NOT HAVE TO BE A COMPLETE SOLID STRUCTURE

christ - compressed air or oil can push a telescopic turbine into the air , and keep it there until it needs to come down

its far from impossible - everyone thought the mars mission today was toast

well think again - we have the technology to DO ANYTHING - just maybe not the cash

and with that attitude we will still be burning polish coal and using British nuke stations - and pumping saudi oil

pathetic

mhigh86

I'am more of a underwater hairdryer type of inventer. Looking to invest?

TeddyTedson

Didn't I read somewhere RyanAir were launching the first fleet of wind turbine powered planes in Spring 2013.

edit, yup i did
They're calling them airplanes.

Mint Sauce

The MiniVan wrote: »

Care to elaborate on the death zone part?Never heard of it?

If the blades fall off, or it topples over with you underneath it, your dead.

dj jarvis

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Didn't I read somewhere RyanAir were launching the first fleet of wind turbine powered planes in Spring 2013.

in fact teddy - you are kind of half right

all modern planes have a wind turbine that drops from the fuselage if the engines fail, as to give power to the avionics and guidance systems

so in a way , yes ryanair do have wind powered airplanes :pac:

Mr.Crinklewood

We could store the turbines in underground veledromes. The veledromes could then be used at night when the turbines are overground.

CrazyRabbit

Geo-thermal pipes into Dail Eireann. That's the way to go. Plenty of hot air there that can be used to heat water, and thus create steam.

TeddyTedson

Did you know a 11 KW Turbine costs about 80,000euro. That would power one and a bit electric showers!