Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

joe40 · 02-08-2012 06:52PM

Hi, Just a quick question about technology!!. I do not have a smart phone so cannot work with the various running apps that are available so the other alternative is a GPS enabled watch. A quick search on Amazon gave a Garmin forerunner 110 for £109 which seems the most basic model but not exactly cheap. Do most people use these sort of things for monitoring distances, pace etc.
No laughing now but I am measuring the distance of my running routes using the car mileometer and just timing how long my runs take to get an average pace. As runs get longer will it become more important to know your pace throughout the run to avoid going too fast or too slow.
I would consider investing in something if there is a real benefit, also would anyone have any recommendations on what to buy.

Darren 83 · 02-08-2012 07:17PM

joe40 wrote: »

Hi, Just a quick question about technology!!. I do not have a smart phone so cannot work with the various running apps that are available so the other alternative is a GPS enabled watch. A quick search on Amazon gave a Garmin forerunner 110 for £109 which seems the most basic model but not exactly cheap. Do most people use these sort of things for monitoring distances, pace etc.
No laughing now but I am measuring the distance of my running routes using the car mileometer and just timing how long my runs take to get an average pace. As runs get longer will it become more important to know your pace throughout the run to avoid going too fast or too slow.
I would consider investing in something if there is a real benefit, also would anyone have any recommendations on what to buy.

Why not use google maps to map and you're plan routes?, then get google drive use this template https://drive.google.com/previewtemplate?id=0ApAUrpV0LSh_dENiSkE0QlI4VVFZbERwTnpIcWNrbWc&mode=public with you planed route just enter the miles ran and time ran in it will automatically give your pace.

darabbit · 02-08-2012 07:41PM

Younganne wrote: »

darabbit wrote: »

I have registered for the Longford half marathon on 26th Aug as it fits in well with HH1. There is another half in Athenry the week after and I am thinking of doing it as it is close to me. I an supposed to run 10 m that weekend but I was swapping week 9 and 10 due to Longford half.

Is it too much to run two half marathons in succession?

2 half marathons in 2 successive weeks would be very tough on the body unless you are not going to race one of them and treat it as a training run......otherwise i'd say pick the one you like best and do that one...but others might think differently

You made me laugh out loud there:) I would not be able to race 10k let alone a half marathon:) I have one pace only in longer runs and that's slow!! Thanks for the confidence boost though!!

Younganne · 02-08-2012 08:21PM

greenb wrote: »

Thanks Anne, that does help. Just to clarify, is your advice to use the higdon program initially just to add a fourth day, ie continuing doing my 3m Tuesday, 3m Thursday and 6m Sunday while adding a fourth day building up from 1.5m to 3m over say 12 weeks. Up to now I was focused on just increasing the Sunday run gradually.

I'm still a little confused about how to start the marathon training program when the time comes...ie novice supreme is a 30 week program, if I'm doing the above should I just jump in to week 10 or 11, twenty weeks before the marathon, or should I start at week 1 thirty weeks before the marathon, thus reducing the mileage I will already be doing at that stage?

Thanks all for your help

Hi greenb, sorry im probably not being clear...yes continue to do your 3m on tues and thur and 6m on sunday, and add 1.5m on wednesday, do this for 2 or 3 week and then move it up to 2 miles and do this for a couple of week etc until you are up to the 3 x3 m and 1 x 6 mile...this is the first week of HH novice 1 marathon program, then start into the plan, but repeat any week you need to. IF you have lots of time before your chosen marathon keep repeating some of the weeks so that you don't peak too soon. IF you give me an idea of which marathon or when i could do give you a better idea.

Younganne · 02-08-2012 08:23PM

darabbit wrote: »

You made me laugh out loud there:) I would be able to rave 10k let alone a half marathon:) I have one pace only in longer runs and that's slow!! Thanks for the confidence boost though!!

When the time comes, i bet you'll surprise yourself;)

greenb · 02-08-2012 08:47PM

Younganne wrote: »

Hi greenb, sorry im probably not being clear...yes continue to do your 3m on tues and thur and 6m on sunday, and add 1.5m on wednesday, do this for 2 or 3 week and then move it up to 2 miles and do this for a couple of week etc until you are up to the 3 x3 m and 1 x 6 mile...this is the first week of HH novice 1 marathon program, then start into the plan, but repeat any week you need to. IF you have lots of time before your chosen marathon keep repeating some of the weeks so that you don't peak too soon. IF you give me an idea of which marathon or when i could do give you a better idea.

Thanks again, this is all really helpful, as I'm absolutely clueless as to how to train, never given it any thought up to now, I just followed the C25K in order to get me moving after a lot of very sedentary years! since then I've just tried to run a bit further once a week and now find myself running 10k. I have got lots and lots of time before my first marathon.......I've decided Dublin 2013 so what I need to do is figure out what is the best thing for me between now and the start of a marathon training program, I guess around the beginning of June next year. I want to use the time to give myself the best possible base.

My stretch goal would be a sub-four hour marathon, more realistic goal probably 4:30. Am I being over-ambitious given my current 10k time is about 1hr?

Deedee2012 · 02-08-2012 08:51PM

joe40 wrote: »

Hi, Just a quick question about technology!!. I do not have a smart phone so cannot work with the various running apps that are available so the other alternative is a GPS enabled watch. A quick search on Amazon gave a Garmin forerunner 110 for £109 which seems the most basic model but not exactly cheap. Do most people use these sort of things for monitoring distances, pace etc.
No laughing now but I am measuring the distance of my running routes using the car mileometer and just timing how long my runs take to get an average pace. As runs get longer will it become more important to know your pace throughout the run to avoid going too fast or too slow.
I would consider investing in something if there is a real benefit, also would anyone have any recommendations on what to buy.

Hi I was using my phone with a running app but it was just getting too fiddly. I got the garmin 110 about two months ago and I really like it. It's definitely helping me on the pace end of things and the website that you upload your runs too is very handy. They are pricey and that's why I got the 110 and not some of the fancier models. I would recommend it if you don't really want a bells and whistles model. Mine came with a heart rate moniter but I haven't been organised enough to try it out yet. Dee

sayno · 02-08-2012 08:58PM

joe40 wrote: »

Hi, Just a quick question about technology!!. I do not have a smart phone so cannot work with the various running apps that are available so the other alternative is a GPS enabled watch. A quick search on Amazon gave a Garmin forerunner 110 for £109 which seems the most basic model but not exactly cheap. Do most people use these sort of things for monitoring distances, pace etc.
No laughing now but I am measuring the distance of my running routes using the car mileometer and just timing how long my runs take to get an average pace. As runs get longer will it become more important to know your pace throughout the run to avoid going too fast or too slow.
I would consider investing in something if there is a real benefit, also would anyone have any recommendations on what to buy.

I have a Garmin 305. It is great for giving you your pace and distance heart beat etc. i would be lost without it. I would definitely recommend investing in one

ncmc · 02-08-2012 09:34PM

joe40 wrote: »

Hi, Just a quick question about technology!!. I do not have a smart phone so cannot work with the various running apps that are available so the other alternative is a GPS enabled watch. A quick search on Amazon gave a Garmin forerunner 110 for £109 which seems the most basic model but not exactly cheap. Do most people use these sort of things for monitoring distances, pace etc.
No laughing now but I am measuring the distance of my running routes using the car mileometer and just timing how long my runs take to get an average pace. As runs get longer will it become more important to know your pace throughout the run to avoid going too fast or too slow.
I would consider investing in something if there is a real benefit, also would anyone have any recommendations on what to buy.

I use a Garmin Forerunner 205. I think it is one of the pretty basic ones as it doesn't have a heart rate monitor, I would be totally lost without it. It's all very well to use Map My Run or just measure the distance in your car, but the beauty of a gps watch is that you can monitor your pace as you run. This prevents you from starting off too fast on your lsr. I think it's well worth the investment, I think mine was something like £89 on Amazon, which I don't think too expensive for something I get so much use out of.

blockic · 02-08-2012 09:40PM

+1 Also have a Forerunner 205, well worth it if you're going to be running 3 or more times a week. The data you get from it to analyse your runs is also very beneficial

Dilbert75 · 02-08-2012 10:18PM

Joe40, I've a Garmin 305 and I'd be lost without it. Unlike the 110, which gives you little more than your HR & pace / time / distance info, the more advanced watches allow you to program your training in advance, program interval training, program alerts (HR, pace, distance, etc) to help you manage your training. I really do find it invaluable.

My wife and son both have 110s - my wife's got good use but the main button has broken on it, just outside warranty - we haven't sent it away yet for repair (STG£57 + shipping IIRC). From what I see on Amazon (where we bought all our watches) there are numerous reports of problems with them.

FWIW my wife started off with a Forerunner 50 and a foot pod. She found it of limited benefit, as you have to calibrate it regularly based on your "average" stride length and it calculates your speed & distance based on that. It's far from accurate in our experience.

And if you want to postpone your investment, we use mapometer.com and find it pretty good.

Dilbert75 · 02-08-2012 10:29PM

ncmc wrote: »

Just wanted to get people’s thoughts on this, I was thinking of doing the Clonmel half marathon on August 19th, problem is, my husband is working that day and there isn’t really anyone else I could ask to go with me, so I’d be doing it on my own! Would anyone consider doing a race on there own or am I going to look like a total Billy-no-mates at the start and finish line!

With holidays and one thing and another, the only other half marathon near me, would be Charleville on Sept 23rd, is this too close to the marathon to be doing a half?

Should I do Clonmel solo, do Charleville or both?

ncmc - it looks like there could be a few of us going now! I've not booked in yet (313 places left, price doesn't go up until 5th Aug) but plan to. I'm due to do a 15m LSR on the weekend of Clonmel, so I figure racing a half will be equivalent (including warm ups, cool downs, etc). I'm also doing the Dublin 10m the week after - I'll do that in lieu of the half marathon.

FWIW I have no concern about going to a race by myself either and probably will for this one. It's an hour of a drive each way for me and, to be there for probably 9:30 and not be finished till around 1 makes it a long day for my wife - especially if she's the kids with her. Even if she's running, she's much faster than me anyway, so I'll always be running with strangers and, at best, meeting her at the end. Once I've a pocket for my car key, no problem. Looks like there's plenty of parking at the race HQ for it too.

Walkedit · 02-08-2012 11:43PM

I've not run one b4 but Walked it twice in '10 & '11, after a good number of cold rain soaked hours last year, my DCM partner (daughter 22) and I decided we'd better try running - at least it may be quicker.

I gotta say that I realise I'm late starting HH plan and don't have 18 weeks, not quite sure how best to approach that: risk building up too quick or risk not getting the higher mileage or risk not having a full taper?

Male 51

Have you raced before? If so what are your PB? (Date and distance please!)
DCM 10 & 11 as above 7:05 & 6:55 - for all first timers trust me whatever time you want/get - once you get safely home you'll be buzzed!
10K Fingal in July '12 - 1:14:53 both had bad day and it was a slow walk jog
5k 29 mins (racing against myself in a training run)

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? No problem if you do!
Can run for about an hour taking it easy 10+ mpm

How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant

Not much so far unfortunately!!. Started at Xmas for 2 months but pulled a calf muscle (and it was recurring) and packed it in for a while to recover. Been cycling to work most days since Feb 50 mins round trip.

Started to do a few runs before Fingal 10K longest was 7K
some ad hoc since, 6m last weekend
This week 3x3m and thinking to 7-8 this weekend, then pick a HH plan week to pick up from

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time?

4:30 would be amazing BUT under 5 would be 2 hrs better than last year, bottom line my goal is to run a marathon full stop!

How many days a week can you train?

Plan to run 4 days(early morning) a week and keep biking to work, maybe have a longer ride at weekend as a crosstrainer

Why are you running this marathon?
A few reasons :
(1) I always wanted to run it before I was 50 but didn't think I was up for it (also too heavy - so went WW and lost 4 st) so took the walking route (at 49) to get it done - but I still want to run it!
(2) We collect for CONCERN, did OK last two years but I think I can raise a lot more if I run it - especially the first time out - target is 5K, 1 for every hour
(3) Doing last 2 with my daughter has been amazing & special experience, I want to do it every year now!

Sorry for rambly post, been reading thread last few days after following silently previous years - time to get in, fair play I say to mentors/contributors it's soo encouraging.

Hope its OK I added myself to the training log and put in last few weeks main stuff!

snowman224 · 03-08-2012 09:01AM

Went to physio last night... havent run since the 10miler on sunday and will be off my feet for another week at least it seems.
Have pain where the tendon joins the bone on the inside of my ankle.
(Been niggling at me for about 3 wks. Knew this week I had to get it sorted)
She said she'd prefer the injury to be further up the leg as there isnt much blood flow to aid recovery where it is now...

Gutted but am trying to be positive. Knew there would be something along the 18wk training plan, so hoping this is it and I can get back quickly.

Any advice for when I return?
If I get the all clear to start running again next Thur, I could do something light but its not gonna be sensible to launch back in to a 12 mile run that weekend. So do I look to ramp back up again?
Try to skip a drop back week? change the program to 6 day weeks to try to compress it?
Was thinking of something like this:
Wk 7: 6/7 mile LSR
Wk 8: 10 mile LSR
Wk 9: 10 mile race in phoenix park
.. and continue on with the program then as if nothing happened before..

Lola27 · 03-08-2012 12:38PM

shortie_chik wrote: »

My physio asked this morning if I'm getting enough protein / glycogen to repair my muscles. I told her I usually eat a handful of nuts with water when I finish, and might try chocolate milk now based on recommendations on here. She told me that Mark Kenneally (olympic marathon runner!) drinks a mixture of Marvel, Nesquik & water shook up into a milkshake, within an hour of running. Just thought I'd pass on the recipe!

She wasn't certain of the proportions, maybe someone on here is already drinking this & can let me know? Haven't found it by Google yet, but if I can't come up with something I can email her to contact Mark for the measurements (which I'll stick up here if I get it).

Almost every race I've ever done, I've done on my own. Sounds selfish when I type it out loud but it's much easier to do my own thing on a race day. Don't have to leave home extra early to meet someone, can arrive whenever I'm ready / no waiting for late folks!, can do a little run at my own warm up pace, can position myself wherever I feel comfortable in the starting area, can get into my own pace without feeling bad for abandoning a friend during the race, and can head off home with no hanging around getting cold (or rained on!) after. And other people around in the start area are usually friendly enough if you feel lonely!

Just on the chocolate milk theme, this is a handy webpage with recipes for making your own sports drinks..... isotonic, hypertonic and hypotonic depending on the purpose.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/health_and_fitness/4289704.stm

Trampas · 03-08-2012 01:13PM

Is it just me or do walkers on footpaths never move out of your way.

You could be running along and come across a group of 3 people walking in a line and they take up the whole path and as you approach they will not move in so you end up running on the road or grass.

tang1 · 03-08-2012 01:21PM

Trampas wrote: »

Is it just me or do walkers on footpaths never move out of your way.

You could be running along and come across a group of 3 people walking in a line and they take up the whole path and as you approach they will not move in so you end up running on the road or grass.

I hear what your saying, do a good bit of running on promenade between Fintans High Sch in Sutton to The Causeway at James Larkin Rd. Full of walkers at best of times, some who get faster as you approach and bull past you. But runners should afford walkers the manners of moving to. I got a kick in the leg last year as i passed a female walker, scared the living sh?t out of her!! She couldn't have apologised more in fairness to her.

joe40 · 03-08-2012 01:43PM

Thanks to everyone for the advice about the running watches. I think i will take the plunge and invest in one. The idea that I can monitor pace throughout my run sounds useful.
I have a polar HR monitor which I use when cycling but I hate wearing the chest strap when running. I never really got into proper heart rate monitor training just a useful guide really to make sure i don't ease off.
I find though that is the big difference between cycling and running there is no easing off when running it is a constant effort.

Thanks again for the advice and good luck to everyone with the training.

madon · 03-08-2012 02:06PM

Walkedit wrote: »

Doing last 2 with my daughter has been amazing & special experience, I want to do it every year now!

I used to walk about 6 miles every second night with my Dad, when I was 18-23/4 and it has built such a bond between the two of us. I'd love if the two of us could have accomplished something like the marathon together- but Dad's knees are in bits after years of unseen too football injuries. However he might as well be running the marathon with me because he will talk of nothing else for the next few month, he'll probably be up earlier than me marathon morning and have his viewing point route planned out!

I'm a late arriver too so Interested to read what the more experienced have to say about quick build up/ full taper question.

Steroo · 03-08-2012 03:22PM

Hi All,
Need some advice on running belts. never used one. never trained past 10 Miles so never needed one, but from reading a bit it seems it'd be a good idea to hydrate/gel/water for the 10+ miles Run that are ahead. Can anyone recommend one at a reasonable price that is comfortable?
had a look in Elverys today.. good prices.. but one had 2 very small bottles & I suspect that's just for gel? or shoudl I only be drinking that small amount of water? Others had larger 400-500ml bottle in centre? I'd like one I can stick my Ipod into & keys/gels, so I'd need a pocket too. Any advice appreciated!
Seen a few on ebay/amazon too.
Thanks

lmguillou · 03-08-2012 03:34PM

Hi All,

I need some clarification on Hal Higdon training program, I'm not sure to understand what pace should I use where it says "run". it says that "pace" is the pace you want to run at during the race, so say I want to run the marathon in 4hours in means that during the week training a 10K "pace" should take me one hour. what about a 10k "run"? slower that "pace"? if so I m surprise there are no run scheduled with faster pace on shorter distance.
Any response would be well appreciated

sassyj · 03-08-2012 03:43PM

joe40 wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for the advice about the running watches. I think i will take the plunge and invest in one. The idea that I can monitor pace throughout my run sounds useful.
I have a polar HR monitor which I use when cycling but I hate wearing the chest strap when running. I never really got into proper heart rate monitor training just a useful guide really to make sure i don't ease off.
I find though that is the big difference between cycling and running there is no easing off when running it is a constant effort.

Thanks again for the advice and good luck to everyone with the training.

I have the Garmin 405 CX , got it here http://www.handtec.co.uk/product.php?xProd=5378

NOH means newly overhauled, got a 12 month guarantee. Used a VAT number from a friend's company, you could get it delivered to Ireland for GBP£114.80, not bad at all.

slim4life · 03-08-2012 04:08PM

joe40 wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for the advice about the running watches. I think i will take the plunge and invest in one. The idea that I can monitor pace throughout my run sounds useful.
I have a polar HR monitor which I use when cycling but I hate wearing the chest strap when running. I never really got into proper heart rate monitor training just a useful guide really to make sure i don't ease off.
I find though that is the big difference between cycling and running there is no easing off when running it is a constant effort.

Thanks again for the advice and good luck to everyone with the training.

Hi Joe, not sure if you have an idea of what one to buy or not but I bought one a few months back on ebay and its great, it was a fair bit cheaper than some of the others that had the same functions too I think it worked out around €150 all together its called the Polar RS300X but you need to make sure the footpod comes with it, this tracks your speed/distance etc. I just found this one allot cheaper than the high end GPS ones that I found online and it works just as good. does heart rate too and you can set goals etc. into it.

Martin_ie2012 · 03-08-2012 11:33PM

Younganne wrote: »

Now some of you make be following the plan to the letter and still be having niggles, but there are various other reasons for this too...
Runners might not be the right ones for your feet or the runners your are using are getting to the end of their running life

your pace might still be a bit on the fast side than it should be as i know its hard to slow down, when you know you can run faster.

stretching after a run might be an issue, some people don't stretch and some people stretch for up to 20 min, you have to find what is best for you and stretch all the big muscles after each run

nutrition and hydration might still need a bit of work to help with recovery and to fuel the runs

continuing to run on niggles or injuries and not getting them checked by a professional will lead to bigger injuries and more time of running

There are always various answers to each question asked here and as stated before we are not claiming to be experts, just people who have gone through this experience before and are trying to pass on our experience and tips and advice.

Keep the heads up and keep the minds positive. As stated earlier if you follow the plan, you will be able to get around the course and enjoy the experience.
never be afraid to ask questions here, you'll always get an answer from someone!!

+1 on the advice re: the runners. got fitted for runners yesterday in amphibian King and they did a great job very nice and thorough. Gait analysis is a great idea, needed supoortive corrective shoes so should see an improvement in my running.
On the niggles havent run since wednesday with a sore knee. Went to physio yesterday and was told it's runners knee which is basically my i.t band so have some stretches and am going to try a very light run Monday to see if there is an improvement and have a follow up Thursday to hopefully get the all clear.
Looking forward to getting back out there and cracking on with the training, once again have to thanks Anne and all the group for the support here it really is very helpful.

sureitsgrand · 04-08-2012 11:33AM

sassyj wrote: »

I have the Garmin 405 CX , got it here http://www.handtec.co.uk/product.php?xProd=5378

NOH means newly overhauled, got a 12 month guarantee. Used a VAT number from a friend's company, you could get it delivered to Ireland for GBP£114.80, not bad at all.

This is a great shout! And to think I was just gonna plum for one in the Argos. Amateur. :rolleyes:

Pacing Mule · 04-08-2012 12:30PM

Hi everyone,

Week 7 is ready to go for everyone.

I have also slightly altered the new joiner process.
If you are a new joiner there are new joiner slots in place now at the end of each sheet for Weeks 5 onwards. This is where you will stay for the first week you enter information. (Previously I was slotting the new joiners in alphabetically on each previous week but to do this across multiple sheets as the weeks go by is very time consuming)

If you want to enter your distances so far they can be entered across the new joiner slots which are still at the top of the sheets for weeks 0 to 4. If this is done I will change the formulas around for the current week to calculate properly.

pollyanna -Your entries for week 5 (which you already filled in) and week 6(this week which you have yet to fill in) are at the bottom of the sheet. You are in Week 7 in the middle of the sheet alphabetically and will be there from now on.

WalkedIT - You are also moved up into the main sheet alphabetically now for Week 7 and beyond. Your previous weeks are still in place at the bottom.

Lastly - there had been a couple of peoples rows moved around / messed up which meant some of the weekly totals were calculating other peoples running figures. I think I have fixed all issues but please double check your own data and if there are any discrepancies let me know.

sheba 121 · 05-08-2012 09:13AM

Home from hols........with a sore foot. Only ran Monday and Tuesday. Foot has recovered well and im ready to go for week 7. Hope everybody is doing well. Im still loving all the training hopefully this will last till week 18:D

Trampas · 05-08-2012 11:06AM

will be cups or bottles at the water station in dcm?

i prefer if it was even 250 ml bottles instead of cups as you can lose a bit when grabbing them

rasher_m · 05-08-2012 02:03PM

Trampas wrote: »

will be cups or bottles at the water station in dcm?

i prefer if it was even 250 ml bottles instead of cups as you can lose a bit when grabbing them

Yeah, I'm wondering if I'm going to have to carry a water belt, i'd rather not.
My sister has given me one and I'm going to take it out this evening to see how I get on.
You would definitely have to stop at each water station and stand or walk while drinking if it is cups.
Then again, i'm planning on bringing some pain killers, electrolytes and food so I'll probably have to carry the water belt anyway since it has a bum bag on it.

Pacing Mule · 05-08-2012 02:54PM

Went out for a 4k brisk run this morning. Didn't want to do too much with tomorrows 10k race in mind but I was concious of not getting a lot of mileage done in the last 3 weeks.

Ran 4k in 24 min flat but I have to admit I struggled a bit and right atthe end my groin started playing up. This is the pace I need to break 1 hour tomorrow so I'm not feeling too confident at the moment. That said my only official 10k race time was 1 hour 8 minutes so there is still room for a PB there.

Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

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