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Rape is terrible but murder is grand?

245

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 fishcakes18


    I lived in a house with 3 girls and 1 guy, first I met the girls and we all got on really well, still friends with them now. 3 days into college and I still hadn't met the guy but I could hear him in the middle of the night shouting to himself about how he is going to kill someone and then rape their insides. This freaked me out because I had initially thought he was on the phone to someone and my impressions of him from the girls was that he was crazy, the girls however had never described his appearance so I had convinced myself that he looked like a very hairy Hungarian bodybuilder rapist when in fact I saw him walking past me in the hall just leaving my apartment, not knowing who I was, he looked more like a dark haired milky bar kid.

    He hardly ever left his room, not even for classes or for food it seemed. We checked his press in the kitchen and it only contained the "essentials" pot noodles, crisps and orange juice (yes, not even in the fridge). Every night it was the same, he would be shouting and screaming in his room for hours until about 4 or 5 in the morning, shouting sentences like "Your a f*ckin noob b*tch and im going to skull f*ck your grandmother" or "I'm going to kill you, F*CK! F*CK! oh f*ck that sh*t, you go f*ck yourself dude, im going to rape your f*cking sister like a black man!", now I am a very heavy sleeper, i've slept in a sand dune in the middle of a thunder storm but still this shouting would wake me up every so often. But the poor girls in the house were kept awake all night and were begging me to go knock on his door to get him to keep it down. So I knock on the door and he answers, first thing i notice is the horrendous smell that has just come bellowing from his room and drifted right past my nostrils, it smelled like Bigfoot's d*ck! He looks like he hasn't slept in days, wearing the same clothes every day, then I notice that he has an xbox in his room, of course, he was playing online against people, this explains the shouting. So we ask him to come inside the kitchen and tell us about himself. He tells us he has OCD, he loves playing Rainbow Six Las Vegas 2 and he loves crisps. We ask him to keep it down and he said he will.

    Next night he is at it again, shouting threats in his room at 3 in the morning, one of the girls knocks on his door and says keep it down I have an exam in the morning. There's silence, next thing he busts into the girl's room and says if you ever ruin my game of Rainbow Six again i'll f*cking kill you, ye dumb f*cking b*tch, slams HER door and goes back at it again. This is where the girls tell me to beat him up, ehh f*ck no! Rule number 1, never mess with a crazy person, you'll wake up with no legs and your liver replaced with a car battery. Next day we call the college and report him. They dont do much just come by and talk to him. He is at it again, but this time he hasn't left his room in about 3 days, without any sleep! And he won't come out of his room. He has locked and bordered up his door.

    The only way to contact him is through Rainbow Six Las Vegas 2, so one of the lads at college has to go into the game, go online and join a game with him to negotiate with him to leave his room. I can just imagine them in a hostage situation! "Come out and put your hands up, we got the place surrounded, think of your family, you still have a chance to make things right with them!" haha, this idea managed to get through to him and he came out, his parents packed all his stuff up and moved him back home. I still see him the odd time around college and I think to myself, that young chap could of stabbed and raped me in my sleep


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    men are the primary victims of murder and other violent crimes so it's ok to joke about, women are the primary victims of rape

    You mean reported? Because most men would not report it as they feel it would emasculate them, much like domestic abuse. Luckily in recent years, more people are coming forward to open up about it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,939 ✭✭✭Dave0301


    smash wrote: »
    But of course it will cause insult because of it's meaning. You hear people joking about wanting to put eye drops in their bosses coffee, but if they said they wanted to put aids infected blood in their bosses coffee you'd think they were a psychopath.

    Again it depends on the tone it is said and the context!

    If they said it, whilst twitching and staring menacingly at a blank space in air it could certainly be a cause for concern!

    Take the example above of the pundit describing the defender as getting raped, many times after a match if I played bad I'd remark that "I got raped a few times." That context I would deem acceptable.

    If I was talking to a friend and commented on their good appearance saying " You look well, I'd rape ya." Not acceptable.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    smash wrote: »
    While both are wrong, when you consider the outcome of both acts they're pretty different. Murder is final while Rape will leave someone f*cked up for a long time.

    So if you say "I'd kill him if I saw him again" it would kind of mean you want closure. But if you said "I'd rape him if I saw him again" it would kind of mean that you want to cause him long term suffering and trauma after short term degrading.

    What about torture?

    " That training session was torture"

    Torture would have to be about the worst thing that can happen a human being.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    What about torture?

    " That training session was torture"

    Torture would have to be about the worst thing that can happen a human being.
    It generally comes to an end... just like a training session!


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    smash wrote: »
    What about torture?

    " That training session was torture"

    Torture would have to be about the worst thing that can happen a human being.
    It generally comes to an end... just like a training session!

    As does rape.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Dave0301 wrote: »
    I wasn't trying to imply that!

    My point is that the use of a verb in a banal sentence, be it murder, rape or making love shouldn't necessarily cause insult as context of its use should also be considered.

    +1 to this
    kylith wrote: »
    I think I'd rather be murdered than raped. At least when you're murdered you don't have to live with the memory of it afterward.

    I genuinely can't understand that attitude (I've had this discussion with someone before btw), I'm not trying to downplay the seriousness of the crime but in terms of physical suffering and permanent physical damage* there's much worse crimes committed, now obviously there's psychological damage but loss of control/degradation/humiliation/violation can occur in many many crimes that do not involve sexual contact

    *Obviously this is a generalisation, remember reading an article about male rape in Africa (guardian i think) that was very nasty.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    As does rape.

    sure :rolleyes:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    smash wrote: »
    As does rape.

    sure :rolleyes:

    Why roll eyes?

    Do you think having your toes and fingers cut off has causes no long term damage, not to mention physical.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,025 ✭✭✭grindle


    smash wrote: »
    But of course it will cause insult because of it's meaning. You hear people joking about wanting to put eye drops in their bosses coffee, but if they said they wanted to put aids infected blood in their bosses coffee you'd think they were a psychopath.
    Why?
    I'd just go "That person has a crude sense of humour, I like that."
    Anybody thinking there're such things as psychopathic jokes needs to take a good look at themselves - if they're not instantly disappointed, they can either stay in - or move to - Mayo, to be near others of their kind.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Why roll eyes?

    Do you think having your toes and fingers cut off has causes no long term damage, not to mention physical.
    Because if you think rape is only a temporary act of non-consensual sex then you don't have a clue what you're talking about.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,939 ✭✭✭Dave0301


    smash wrote: »
    Because if you think rape is only a temporary act of non-consensual sex then you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

    And if you don't think the same about torture albeit lacking a sexual aspect you don't know what you are talking about.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    grindle wrote: »
    Why?
    I'd just go "That person has a crude sense of humour, I like that."
    Anybody thinking there're such things as psychopathic jokes needs to take a good look at themselves - if they're not instantly disappointed, they can either stay in - or move to - Mayo, to be near others of their kind.
    Look, there's not much that would offend me and I know a joke when I hear one. But at the same time I appreciate that others don't think like me. A lot of people don't seem to get that point.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    smash wrote: »
    Why roll eyes?

    Do you think having your toes and fingers cut off has causes no long term damage, not to mention physical.
    Because if you think rape is only a temporary act of non-consensual sex then you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

    I never said rape doesn't have long term ranging effects.

    If you think torture is only a temporary act of agony then you don't have a clue what you're talking about.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    If you think torture is only a temporary act of agony then you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

    I never said I thought that. I do think that people could get over torture more than they could get over rape though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭Bad Panda


    kylith wrote: »
    I think I'd rather be murdered than raped. At least when you're murdered you don't have to live with the memory of it afterward.

    I think I'd rather the opportunity to live and to learn to live with it than be dead to be honest.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    smash wrote: »
    Because if you think rape is only a temporary act of non-consensual sex then you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
    I'm confused where did scanlas imply that it didn;t
    smash wrote: »
    It generally comes to an end... just like a training session!

    If we're going to be self-righteous/white knight about this that post was deeply offensive (I don't think it is btw but to a survivor of torture it could be)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭foxyboxer


    I will massacre you when you get home!
    If you do that again I'll kill you!

    I think the majority of people inherently understand such euphemisms or figures of speech as "You'll be getting a severe dressing down etc etc"

    Saying "I'll rape you when you get back" just seems a bit.....specific.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    I don't think it is btw but to a survivor of torture it could be

    Isn't this what it's really about though. A lot of people know victims of rape but I don't know 1 victim of torture. It's about saying something that hits a nerve.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    smash wrote: »
    If you think torture is only a temporary act of agony then you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

    I never said I thought that. I do think that people could get over torture more than they could get over rape though.

    Why is that?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Why is that?

    I guess it depends on the circumstances involved with a torture. Most result in death anyway. But for those who survive say in a war situation, once out of the environment and back home there's probably a small sense of closure. Where you often hear of women never trusting men again after a rape.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    smash wrote: »
    I never said I thought that. I do think that people could get over torture more than they could get over rape though.

    Why do you believe that, or what evidence do you have, if you think about it logically it doesn;t even make sense, torture is something that has been practised since at least the Mesolithic with the aim of causing maximum suffering or gaining maximum coercive power its something that has been carried out for maximum psychological impact, while rape may be 'all about power' (thread on this in the LL) in some cases I doubt that most rapes are carried out with the express intent of inflicting maximum psycological harm and coercion.

    obviously rape is one of the most commonly used methods of toture but I don;t think thats real what we're talking about.

    ps the mesolithic bit implies we've been doing it a long time so we're pretty 'good' at torture


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    The real reason rape is unacceptable is basically down to social conditioning. That's it pure and simple, it's not because rape has long lasting effects or is specific etc, those are just rationalisations after the fact to reconcile why you feel so negatively about rape and not murder.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Why do you believe that
    The real reason rape is unacceptable is basically down to social conditioning.

    Like I said earlier "A lot of people know victims of rape but I don't know 1 victim of torture. It's about saying something that hits a nerve."

    And words like torture/murder have been accepted for a long time to have a double meaning. Rape hasn't.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,378 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Murder victims just don't seem to mind so much if you joke about them, at least I've never heard of a murder victim getting all upset about a joke.
    Sharrow wrote: »
    When your dead your dead.
    If you survive a rape or attempted murder or anything very traumatic you have to try and live with it and the post traumatic stress it causes you for the rest of your life, it can make the rest of your life a living hell.

    Pretty much that.

    Well murder victims do have families.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,728 ✭✭✭✭Earthhorse


    Rape is something that many victims don't talk about so when you make a rape joke you are not sure if your audience has or hasn't been effected by it. Murder, on the other hand, comes with far less of a risk in that regard.

    Rape is also something where there has been historically a lot of victim blaming so attempts to joke about it or casualise it could be seen as contributing toward that same flip attitude to victims.

    Finally, this is a historical language thing; phrases such as "murder a pint" etc. have been in the vernacular for quite some time whereas the recent trend of "raping a cake" or what have you has no such lineage. Though technically it could be seen as a valid use of the word, I have to say that I find it a little unnatural; you wouldn't hear the same people say they'd "attack a cake" or "assault a beer" even though they also have similar connotations. In my opinion, and it is purely that - my opinion, there seems to be certain people who have an almost obsession with the word which has to be said, is pretty juvenile.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    smash wrote: »
    Like I said earlier "A lot of people know victims of rape but I don't know 1 victim of torture. It's about saying something that hits a nerve."

    And words like torture/murder have been accepted for a long time to have a double meaning. Rape hasn't.

    I was asking about why you thought torture was more recoverable than rape.

    I'm not aware of knowing anybody thats been raped myself, but I do know a fair people that have been beaten up etc does that mean we should stop using phrases that imply that? In relation to the second point language and idiom changes (not necessarily for the better)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 233 ✭✭MarkHitide


    There's one circumstance of rape that is frequently joked about and heartily laughed at: prison rape, especially in the USA. In fact, some people seem to think it's a part of the sentence, to be the repeated victim of sexual assault.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,264 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    Blowfish wrote: »
    This appears, not just in relation to rape, but to sexuality as a whole.

    Basic example would be TV. It's somehow ok to show murder and violence during daytime TV, but not nudity or sex. The same applies to videogames, murdering is apparently fine, but if there's any nudity, there's generally uproar.

    It's a little odd considering the difference morally between them.

    Depends on where you are. People here in Germany would have the same views as what the OP is saying. But here you will find nudity at any time of the day on TV, whereas they have a bit of thing about violence (probably because of their history). Sex in video games is ok, but too much violence and the game will be banned.

    History probably plays a big role. In Germany people have a very violent history behind them whereas in Ireland people were brought up in a very sexually repressed society because of the Catholic Church.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,728 ✭✭✭✭Earthhorse


    I'm not aware of knowing anybody thats been raped myself, but I do know a fair people that have been beaten up etc does that mean we should stop using phrases that imply that?

    The point is that, you know they've been beaten up and they will likely be able to tell you privately if you use a phrase that upsets them, or if you know their sensitivity already you might edit yourself around them and choose a more appropriate phrase. Because rape victims are less likely to confide you simply don't know whether what you're saying is causing offense. I'd prefer to err on the side of caution personally.
    In relation to the second point language and idiom changes (not necessarily for the better)

    That's certainly true but I'm simply explaining why people find the phrase a jostling one; if it does enter the vernacular I'm sure people won't blink an eye at it but whilst it's entering the vernacular people will debate its merits.


This discussion has been closed.
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