Rape is terrible but murder is grand?

ahnowbrowncow

I just read a comment from someone saying they murder people, obviously a joke and no one took offence, including me, but it made me wonder. If they had of said rape instead of murder they'd probably have gotten a warning or been banned and there would have been people jumping up on their high horse saying how can you joke about such a thing.

It seems that people are becoming overly sensitive to rape (in comparison to their tolerance for other violence) and for some reason have become desensitised to murder. Can someone explain why?

Anyways, I think both acts are terrible and are as awful as each other so if you are going to offended by one joke please by equally offended by the other, thank you .

daveyeh

I blame Swedish House Mafia

Balfie

6 years for importing Garlic an 6 months for attempted rape? This country is fuked either way.

grindle

People who get offended by jokes should be raped murdered hugged.

davet82

Good point, i'm actually interested in this one being explained

biko

"I could murder a pint right now"
versus
"I could rape a pint right now"

"I'll be late home, my parents are going to kill me"
versus
"I'll be late home, my parents are going to rape me"

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

men are the primary victims of murder and other violent crimes so it's ok to joke about, women are the primary victims of rape (generally.. I think in some countries it's the other way around if you count prison rape.. which I dont see why you wouldn't) and since women = good, men = bad it's not ok to joke about.

Scanlas The 2nd

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

men are the primary victims of murder and other violent crimes so it's ok to joke about, women are the primary victims of rape (generally.. I think in some countries it's the other way around if you count prison rape.. which I dont see why you wouldn't) and since women = good, men = bad it's not ok to joke about.

Bit of a leap to come to that conclusion but there could be something to it.

ScumLord

Murder victims just don't seem to mind so much if you joke about them, at least I've never heard of a murder victim getting all upset about a joke.

Esoteric_

This hasn't got much to do with the jokes about rape/murder on AH but -

I think the reason people are so offended by rape jokes (and not necessarily murder jokes) is because while murder takes a life away, rape does too, only the survivor is left to deal with their life being destroyed for however long they live.

I think both acts are equally bad, but you don't have murder victims living to complain if people joke about murder, but you do have rape victims.

Plus, almost everybody knows a rape victim because of the huge number of sexual assaults/rapes in Ireland, whereas not that many people will personally know murder victims.

Morag

When your dead your dead.
If you survive a rape or attempted murder or anything very traumatic you have to try and live with it and the post traumatic stress it causes you for the rest of your life, it can make the rest of your life a living hell.

Pretty much that.

newport2

Because most perpetrators of rape are men and most jokes made about rape come from men. Most victims of rape are women. Work it out.

ahnowbrowncow

ScumLord wrote: »

Murder victims just don't seem to mind so much if you joke about them, at least I've never heard of a murder victim getting all upset about a joke.

Would you not consider the families of murder victims to also be the victims?

I think they'd be pretty upset if you told a few murder jokes in their company.

Scanlas The 2nd

LyndaMcL wrote: »

This hasn't got much to do with the jokes about rape/murder on AH but -

I think the reason people are so offended by rape jokes (and not necessarily murder jokes) is because while murder takes a life away, rape does too, only the survivor is left to deal with their life being destroyed for however long they live.

I think both acts are equally bad, but you don't have murder victims living to complain if people joke about murder, but you do have rape victims.

Plus, almost everybody knows a rape victim because of the huge number of sexual assaults/rapes in Ireland, whereas not that many people will personally know murder victims.

So if both acts are equally bad would you say that someone who is raped should be indifferent to commuting suicide.

Esoteric_

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

So if both acts are equally bad would you say that someone who is raped should be indifferent to commuting suicide.

I don't think it's for me to determine how somebody should feel mentally. I don't think rape victims should commit suicide because eventually, the pain eases somewhat, but I can understand them feeling suicidal.

mikemac1

Was there realy a need for RTÉ to apologize?

No harm was intended

A speedy player rapes a defender, it's just an expression

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYg3hJdq96I

Scanlas The 2nd

newport2 wrote: »

Because most perpetrators of rape are men and most jokes made about rape come from men. Most victims of rape are women. Work it out.

So a rape joke coming from a woman is as innocuous as a murder joke? By tha logic women telling rape jokes should be fine too.

Esoteric_

mikemac1 wrote: »

Was there realy a need for RTÉ to apologize?

No harm was intended

A speedy player rapes a defender, it's just an expression

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYg3hJdq96I

Yes, there was a need for an apology. While some people find those comments funny, a lot of people find them highly offensive, for good reason.

davet82

biko wrote: »

"I could murder a pint right now"
versus
"I could rape a pint right now"

"I'll be late home, my parents are going to kill me"
versus
"I'll be late home, my parents are going to rape me"

1. I've raped many a pint in my day

2. Tell that to the Fritzl kids :rolleyes:

ahnowbrowncow

LyndaMcL wrote: »

Yes, there was a need for an apology. While some people find those comments funny, a lot of people find them highly offensive, for good reason.

Some people could find the "I could murder a pint" expression offensive, say if perhaps a member of their family was murdered or they survived a murder attempt but such expressions aren't taboo unlike rape expressions or jokes.

mikemac1

LyndaMcL wrote: »

While some people find those comments funny,

I don't think anyone found it funny

If you were not offended then you did not even notice as you listened to the sports pundit. Nobody laughed here

Blowfish

This appears, not just in relation to rape, but to sexuality as a whole.

Basic example would be TV. It's somehow ok to show murder and violence during daytime TV, but not nudity or sex. The same applies to videogames, murdering is apparently fine, but if there's any nudity, there's generally uproar.

It's a little odd considering the difference morally between them.

Esoteric_

mikemac1 wrote: »

I don't think anyone found it funny

If you were not offended then you did not even notice as you listened to the sports pundit. Nobody laughed here

When I say 'those comments,' I mean rape comments in general.

Some people might find them funny, or even (as you described) just an expression, but many more people find them highly offensive.

kylith

I think I'd rather be murdered than raped. At least when you're murdered you don't have to live with the memory of it afterward.

smash

While both are wrong, when you consider the outcome of both acts they're pretty different. Murder is final while Rape will leave someone f*cked up for a long time.

So if you say "I'd kill him if I saw him again" it would kind of mean you want closure. But if you said "I'd rape him if I saw him again" it would kind of mean that you want to cause him long term suffering and trauma after short term degrading.

Dave0301

People need to not take things so literal.

Once asked, did I want a cheese toastie and I responded "I'd make love to a cheese toastie."

Does it mean I wanted to really do that?

Yes, the word rape has negative connotations attached to it but it all depends on context of its use.

smash

Dave0301 wrote: »

People need to not take things so literal.

Once asked, did I want a cheese toastie and I responded "I'd make love to a cheese toastie."

Does it mean I wanted to really do that?

Yes, the word rape has negative connotations attached to it but it all depends on context of its use.

Rape is not just sex though.

Dave0301

smash wrote: »

Rape is not just sex though.

I wasn't trying to imply that!

My point is that the use of a verb in a banal sentence, be it murder, rape or making love shouldn't necessarily cause insult as context of its use should also be considered.

smash

Dave0301 wrote: »

My point is that the use of a verb in a banal sentence, be it murder, rape or making love shouldn't necessarily cause insult as context of its use should also be considered.

But of course it will cause insult because of it's meaning. You hear people joking about wanting to put eye drops in their bosses coffee, but if they said they wanted to put aids infected blood in their bosses coffee you'd think they were a psychopath.

CodyJarrett

Context and intention is key, as always.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dyuxRA2gis

What gets on my nerves is when people bring rape into discussions where it does not belong as they know the word has gravity and will shut people up, fast. They use the word in as sanctimonious a way as you can get and love doing it but yet the same people would have RTE apologise for using the word to describe a football maneuver. Arseholes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo0RoQAmifI

PucaMama

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

men are the primary victims of murder and other violent crimes so it's ok to joke about, women are the primary victims of rape (generally.. I think in some countries it's the other way around if you count prison rape.. which I dont see why you wouldn't) and since women = good, men = bad it's not ok to joke about.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: here we go again.

fishcakes18

I lived in a house with 3 girls and 1 guy, first I met the girls and we all got on really well, still friends with them now. 3 days into college and I still hadn't met the guy but I could hear him in the middle of the night shouting to himself about how he is going to kill someone and then rape their insides. This freaked me out because I had initially thought he was on the phone to someone and my impressions of him from the girls was that he was crazy, the girls however had never described his appearance so I had convinced myself that he looked like a very hairy Hungarian bodybuilder rapist when in fact I saw him walking past me in the hall just leaving my apartment, not knowing who I was, he looked more like a dark haired milky bar kid.

He hardly ever left his room, not even for classes or for food it seemed. We checked his press in the kitchen and it only contained the "essentials" pot noodles, crisps and orange juice (yes, not even in the fridge). Every night it was the same, he would be shouting and screaming in his room for hours until about 4 or 5 in the morning, shouting sentences like "Your a f*ckin noob b*tch and im going to skull f*ck your grandmother" or "I'm going to kill you, F*CK! F*CK! oh f*ck that sh*t, you go f*ck yourself dude, im going to rape your f*cking sister like a black man!", now I am a very heavy sleeper, i've slept in a sand dune in the middle of a thunder storm but still this shouting would wake me up every so often. But the poor girls in the house were kept awake all night and were begging me to go knock on his door to get him to keep it down. So I knock on the door and he answers, first thing i notice is the horrendous smell that has just come bellowing from his room and drifted right past my nostrils, it smelled like Bigfoot's d*ck! He looks like he hasn't slept in days, wearing the same clothes every day, then I notice that he has an xbox in his room, of course, he was playing online against people, this explains the shouting. So we ask him to come inside the kitchen and tell us about himself. He tells us he has OCD, he loves playing Rainbow Six Las Vegas 2 and he loves crisps. We ask him to keep it down and he said he will.

Next night he is at it again, shouting threats in his room at 3 in the morning, one of the girls knocks on his door and says keep it down I have an exam in the morning. There's silence, next thing he busts into the girl's room and says if you ever ruin my game of Rainbow Six again i'll f*cking kill you, ye dumb f*cking b*tch, slams HER door and goes back at it again. This is where the girls tell me to beat him up, ehh f*ck no! Rule number 1, never mess with a crazy person, you'll wake up with no legs and your liver replaced with a car battery. Next day we call the college and report him. They dont do much just come by and talk to him. He is at it again, but this time he hasn't left his room in about 3 days, without any sleep! And he won't come out of his room. He has locked and bordered up his door.

The only way to contact him is through Rainbow Six Las Vegas 2, so one of the lads at college has to go into the game, go online and join a game with him to negotiate with him to leave his room. I can just imagine them in a hostage situation! "Come out and put your hands up, we got the place surrounded, think of your family, you still have a chance to make things right with them!" haha, this idea managed to get through to him and he came out, his parents packed all his stuff up and moved him back home. I still see him the odd time around college and I think to myself, that young chap could of stabbed and raped me in my sleep

smash

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

men are the primary victims of murder and other violent crimes so it's ok to joke about, women are the primary victims of rape

You mean reported? Because most men would not report it as they feel it would emasculate them, much like domestic abuse. Luckily in recent years, more people are coming forward to open up about it.

Dave0301

smash wrote: »

But of course it will cause insult because of it's meaning. You hear people joking about wanting to put eye drops in their bosses coffee, but if they said they wanted to put aids infected blood in their bosses coffee you'd think they were a psychopath.

Again it depends on the tone it is said and the context!

If they said it, whilst twitching and staring menacingly at a blank space in air it could certainly be a cause for concern!

Take the example above of the pundit describing the defender as getting raped, many times after a match if I played bad I'd remark that "I got raped a few times." That context I would deem acceptable.

If I was talking to a friend and commented on their good appearance saying " You look well, I'd rape ya." Not acceptable.

Scanlas The 2nd

smash wrote: »

While both are wrong, when you consider the outcome of both acts they're pretty different. Murder is final while Rape will leave someone f*cked up for a long time.

So if you say "I'd kill him if I saw him again" it would kind of mean you want closure. But if you said "I'd rape him if I saw him again" it would kind of mean that you want to cause him long term suffering and trauma after short term degrading.

What about torture?

" That training session was torture"

Torture would have to be about the worst thing that can happen a human being.

smash

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

What about torture?

" That training session was torture"

Torture would have to be about the worst thing that can happen a human being.

It generally comes to an end... just like a training session!

Scanlas The 2nd

smash wrote: »

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

What about torture?

" That training session was torture"

Torture would have to be about the worst thing that can happen a human being.

It generally comes to an end... just like a training session!

As does rape.

RDM_83 again

Dave0301 wrote: »

I wasn't trying to imply that!

My point is that the use of a verb in a banal sentence, be it murder, rape or making love shouldn't necessarily cause insult as context of its use should also be considered.

+1 to this

kylith wrote: »

I think I'd rather be murdered than raped. At least when you're murdered you don't have to live with the memory of it afterward.

I genuinely can't understand that attitude (I've had this discussion with someone before btw), I'm not trying to downplay the seriousness of the crime but in terms of physical suffering and permanent physical damage* there's much worse crimes committed, now obviously there's psychological damage but loss of control/degradation/humiliation/violation can occur in many many crimes that do not involve sexual contact

*Obviously this is a generalisation, remember reading an article about male rape in Africa (guardian i think) that was very nasty.

smash

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

As does rape.

sure :rolleyes:

Scanlas The 2nd

smash wrote: »

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

As does rape.

sure :rolleyes:

Why roll eyes?

Do you think having your toes and fingers cut off has causes no long term damage, not to mention physical.

grindle

smash wrote: »

But of course it will cause insult because of it's meaning. You hear people joking about wanting to put eye drops in their bosses coffee, but if they said they wanted to put aids infected blood in their bosses coffee you'd think they were a psychopath.

Why?
I'd just go "That person has a crude sense of humour, I like that."
Anybody thinking there're such things as psychopathic jokes needs to take a good look at themselves - if they're not instantly disappointed, they can either stay in - or move to - Mayo, to be near others of their kind.

smash

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Why roll eyes?

Do you think having your toes and fingers cut off has causes no long term damage, not to mention physical.

Because if you think rape is only a temporary act of non-consensual sex then you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Dave0301

smash wrote: »

Because if you think rape is only a temporary act of non-consensual sex then you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

And if you don't think the same about torture albeit lacking a sexual aspect you don't know what you are talking about.

smash

grindle wrote: »

Why?
I'd just go "That person has a crude sense of humour, I like that."
Anybody thinking there're such things as psychopathic jokes needs to take a good look at themselves - if they're not instantly disappointed, they can either stay in - or move to - Mayo, to be near others of their kind.

Look, there's not much that would offend me and I know a joke when I hear one. But at the same time I appreciate that others don't think like me. A lot of people don't seem to get that point.

Scanlas The 2nd

smash wrote: »

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Why roll eyes?

Do you think having your toes and fingers cut off has causes no long term damage, not to mention physical.

Because if you think rape is only a temporary act of non-consensual sex then you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

I never said rape doesn't have long term ranging effects.

If you think torture is only a temporary act of agony then you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

smash

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

If you think torture is only a temporary act of agony then you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

I never said I thought that. I do think that people could get over torture more than they could get over rape though.

Bad Panda

kylith wrote: »

I think I'd rather be murdered than raped. At least when you're murdered you don't have to live with the memory of it afterward.

I think I'd rather the opportunity to live and to learn to live with it than be dead to be honest.

RDM_83 again

smash wrote: »

Because if you think rape is only a temporary act of non-consensual sex then you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

I'm confused where did scanlas imply that it didn;t

smash wrote: »

It generally comes to an end... just like a training session!

If we're going to be self-righteous/white knight about this that post was deeply offensive (I don't think it is btw but to a survivor of torture it could be)

foxyboxer

I will massacre you when you get home!
If you do that again I'll kill you!

I think the majority of people inherently understand such euphemisms or figures of speech as "You'll be getting a severe dressing down etc etc"

Saying "I'll rape you when you get back" just seems a bit.....specific.

smash

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I don't think it is btw but to a survivor of torture it could be

Isn't this what it's really about though. A lot of people know victims of rape but I don't know 1 victim of torture. It's about saying something that hits a nerve.

Scanlas The 2nd

smash wrote: »

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

If you think torture is only a temporary act of agony then you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

I never said I thought that. I do think that people could get over torture more than they could get over rape though.

Why is that?