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No guys out there for me?

2

Comments

  • #32
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    Well you are young and have little to worry about. It is different coming out at my age where I have a career and its more difficult to make friends. I could bump into a friend or co-worker in one of those clubs, I know some have been before. It may be a non-issue with most of them, but its not something I want to risk.

    I have to go through a lot, pretty much by myself because of other things going on in my life right now, but it's only me that can make these decisions for myself. And that's not exactly little to worry about.

    So what do you want to do? Meet guys off of sites and stay incognito? How are you supposed to even find a guy to settle down with if you really do not want to come out.
    Look man, the longer you leave it the harder it's going to be and the more unhappy you will be in denying all of this. Wouldn't it be so much easier if you came out and was able to be open and relaxed about this instead of relying on blank profiles on websites?
    I understand the stakes are high for you but honestly don't live up to your user name and remain fearfull. That's not a way to live by and it won't make you any happier but just waste your time.

    Well it's easy when you're confident. But I'm not confident. I still can't imagine going up to a random guy who is out with his mates and trying to chat him up, even if I knew he was gay.

    Who's to say a guy won't come up to you if you were just drinking at the bar? If you hit into a guy and got talking you never know where things could go. He could be straight but you'd get that vibe off of him eventually anyway and no harm done. There are guys that are out there without a lot of confidence just like you so I wouldn't worry. And besides, if you do come out, a good chunk of confidence comes with it and it only keeps growing the more open and comfortable you get with yourself. You'll never become confident by using these sites though.

    Look, you are just a kid. You haven't even begun to experience the real world. It's not all sunshine and rainbows. Actions have consequences and not all are positive.
    So that's how you're going to dismiss all my points? Just because of my age? Oh man don't you think I haven't realised that the world is definitely not sunshine and rainbows. You think I haven't found myself in very dark places or thought it would be best to stay in the closet or ignore my problems because of the potential consequences to myself and others?
    No, I chose to confront them for better or worse because it's the right thing to do by me! Why would I let myself wallow in a sad and miserable life and not do anything to fix it because I was being dictated by fear of rejection?

    If you want to keep on the way you're going then why did you ever ask for advice? I think you were expecting for somebody to agree with what you were doing to justify it and be completely reassuring and supportive. You'll have the latter but I never got the full package or had anything completely smooth and easy so whenever I see this for a guy you're age I tell them to cop onto themselves for their own good.

    I think that's the worst thing that an 18 year old can see what you're doing wrong in terms of ignoring all of this out of pure fear. Your life isn't all that special or different to a lot of gay guys and the stakes aren't higher and the consequences any greater than everyone else. I just read about a guy who was in his 30's here who had a child and yet still confronted his sexuality and was open with himself and is now happy and has a boyfriend who is committed to him.
    He had it very tough and I have a huge amount of respect for someone who could do that. It isn't easy at all. So I think you should look at how other people have it too.

    Now since you were so quick to make assumptions about me based on my age alone and ignore everything else, then I'll do just that with you.
    To me, all you're doing is making things appear as though it's all so tough for you and you're the only one struggling away.
    You're not.
    So if you want to be that guy that is in the closet all his life, go right ahead. That's the lonely road full of a lot of regret, disappointment and a heap of 'what ifs'. I know this is a very hard thing to do but if you want to find that perfect guy that lives up to all your expectations, he won't be found if you're stuck in the closet and totally disillusioned to what it is to be gay and everything that comes with it if you so readily critisised something you never experienced. (calling back on the gay bar comment)

    To me it's you who's being immature about this whole situation by letting your fear take over and feeling like you should give up because it's all so hopeless. You're a man, no excuses, no whining. Some men go through this much later in life when the consequences are much more severe so I have little sympathy for you if you think that way. If you keep going the way you are with the brakes on with all of this, you'll be joining their ranks in no time.
    Time will only pass you by and what will you have achieved for yourself?
    I think that's the worst outcome and the biggest consequence by not doing anything.

    I'll be perfectly honest. I have no time for guys like you that think they have it all worse while the rest of us had it easy and decide that the risks are too much yet complain that that life isn't working out for them.

    Look, I'll be the most supportive guy if all you did was see that the stereotypes and the risks are all in your head. Sure it's not easy, but you don't have it worse than anyone so I think for yourself, you should step back an contemplate on how your life will be like when you're 30. Do you want to be closeted by that age as well when it's going to be harder again for you?

    At the end of the day it's your life not mine. Nobody will ever miss you if you never come out because it will be as if you never existed to a lot of guys. But if you do decide to come out you could touch a lot of people, but most importantly, the man who you end up staying with.
    There will always be support for you even if you think there isn't any. I was amazed by how the gay community was very supportive and reassuring to me when I was confused and needed it. It really helps.

    Everyone just wants the best for you at heart so don't forget that man (:


  • #33
    bleepp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81 ✭✭bleepp


    1ZRed wrote: »
    I have to go through a lot, pretty much by myself because of other things going on in my life right now, but it's only me that can make these decisions for myself. And that's not exactly little to worry about.

    So what do you want to do? Meet guys off of sites and stay incognito? How are you supposed to even find a guy to settle down with if you really do not want to come out.
    Look man, the longer you leave it the harder it's going to be and the more unhappy you will be in denying all of this. Wouldn't it be so much easier if you came out and was able to be open and relaxed about this instead of relying on blank profiles on websites?
    I understand the stakes are high for you but honestly don't live up to your user name and remain fearfull. That's not a way to live by and it won't make you any happier but just waste your time.




    Who's to say a guy won't come up to you if you were just drinking at the bar? If you hit into a guy and got talking you never know where things could go. He could be straight but you'd get that vibe off of him eventually anyway and no harm done. There are guys that are out there without a lot of confidence just like you so I wouldn't worry. And besides, if you do come out, a good chunk of confidence comes with it and it only keeps growing the more open and comfortable you get with yourself. You'll never become confident by using these sites though.



    So that's how you're going to dismiss all my points? Just because of my age? Oh man don't you think I haven't realised that the world is definitely not sunshine and rainbows. You think I haven't found myself in very dark places or thought it would be best to stay in the closet or ignore my problems because of the potential consequences to myself and others?
    No, I chose to confront them for better or worse because it's the right thing to do by me! Why would I let myself wallow in a sad and miserable life and not do anything to fix it because I was being dictated by fear of rejection?

    If you want to keep on the way you're going then why did you ever ask for advice? I think you were expecting for somebody to agree with what you were doing to justify it and be completely reassuring and supportive. You'll have the latter but I never got the full package or had anything completely smooth and easy so whenever I see this for a guy you're age I tell them to cop onto themselves for their own good.

    I think that's the worst thing that an 18 year old can see what you're doing wrong in terms of ignoring all of this out of pure fear. Your life isn't all that special or different to a lot of gay guys and the stakes aren't higher and the consequences any greater than everyone else. I just read about a guy who was in his 30's here who had a child and yet still confronted his sexuality and was open with himself and is now happy and has a boyfriend who is committed to him.
    He had it very tough and I have a huge amount of respect for someone who could do that. It isn't easy at all. So I think you should look at how other people have it too.

    Now since you were so quick to make assumptions about me based on my age alone and ignore everything else, then I'll do just that with you.
    To me, all you're doing is making things appear as though it's all so tough for you and you're the only one struggling away.
    You're not.
    So if you want to be that guy that is in the closet all his life, go right ahead. That's the lonely road full of a lot of regret, disappointment and a heap of 'what ifs'. I know this is a very hard thing to do but if you want to find that perfect guy that lives up to all your expectations, he won't be found if you're stuck in the closet and totally disillusioned to what it is to be gay and everything that comes with it if you so readily critisised something you never experienced. (calling back on the gay bar comment)

    To me it's you who's being immature about this whole situation by letting your fear take over and feeling like you should give up because it's all so hopeless. You're a man, no excuses, no whining. Some men go through this much later in life when the consequences are much more severe so I have little sympathy for you if you think that way. If you keep going the way you are with the brakes on with all of this, you'll be joining their ranks in no time.
    Time will only pass you by and what will you have achieved for yourself?
    I think that's the worst outcome and the biggest consequence by not doing anything.

    I'll be perfectly honest. I have no time for guys like you that think they have it all worse while the rest of us had it easy and decide that the risks are too much yet complain that that life isn't working out for them.

    Look, I'll be the most supportive guy if all you did was see that the stereotypes and the risks are all in your head. Sure it's not easy, but you don't have it worse than anyone so I think for yourself, you should step back an contemplate on how your life will be like when you're 30. Do you want to be closeted by that age as well when it's going to be harder again for you?

    At the end of the day it's your life not mine. Nobody will ever miss you if you never come out because it will be as if you never existed to a lot of guys. But if you do decide to come out you could touch a lot of people, but most importantly, the man who you end up staying with.
    There will always be support for you even if you think there isn't any. I was amazed by how the gay community was very supportive and reassuring to me when I was confused and needed it. It really helps.

    Everyone just wants the best for you at heart so don't forget that man (:

    I cant "like" posts yet so ill comment.
    Couldn't agree with you more with all you said. Well done for having such a mature mind. I'm reading it in general and not especially referring to the OP.

    I'm 21 not out yet and am terrified about doing it but if being out means I'll be truly happy then i'm going to do it. life is for living. I often think that in a few short decades we will all be dead and gone, nothing well be left of us except a headstone bearing our name and a few dusty pictures in an attic somewhere so why the hell spend your life worrying about being gay when it's who you are. Staying in the closet immediately limits your options and tears away any chance of finding love and being happy. I know its terrifically traumatizing to envisage telling people but life is full of difficult situations that have to be dealt with, and usually when you hit them head on you realize that they weren't as major as you previously thought.

    The biggest problem of course is rejection or the fear of upsetting people, especially family. But if I spend my life refusing to tell people I'm gay because they might not like me, amen't I then just doing what I fear they will do and refusing to like or love myself for who I am as a person? In a way its about accepting yourself and loving who you are first (something I've done only very recently) only then your sexuality will seem a lot clearer. That being said I'm still fearful of coming out but it's something I have to do.

    I came across this poem recently, anyone with a grounding in the magical world of Leaving Cert poetry should be able to read betwen the lines :D

    She had blue skin.
    And so did he.
    He kept it hid
    And so did she.
    They searched for blue
    Their whole life through,
    Then passed right by –
    And never knew.

    Thanks 1ZRed your post was a rock of sense!


  • #34
    face1990
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭face1990


    My two cents:

    Coming out not only helps you mentally & emotionally (keeping something like that bottled up isn't healthy in the long term), but it can also help you to meet guys. I've recently gotten my first proper relationship going and I only met the guy through mutual friends who knew we were both gay and introduced us. Not like set us up on a date, just invited us both along to a party and we hit it off.

    As for having trouble finding people with similar interests: part of the fun is finding out what the person is into, and unexpected stuff that you have in common. (plus, on dating websites people don't bother listing every single game, tv show, book etc that they like). Treat that as part of the adventure.
    And even if it turns out you have literally nothing in common and you only have one date, then you end having lost nothing but gained invaluable experience.

    To quote the Communist Manifesto, you have nothing to lose but your chains; you have the world to win!


  • #35
    ongarboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭ongarboy


    OP - you are getting some wonderful responses here - particularly from the last three posters. I hope you take on board and act on some of the advice they provided.

    You fear the risks of coming out. Would it help to write down a list of the risks on one side and benefits on the the other side and see what outweighs the other. I'm hoping benefits like honesty with yourself and others, freedom, inner peace, lack of burden on your shoulders, increased options for meeting new friends and hopefully a soul mate will be more important to you than risks such as a minority of ill informed people frowning upon you, career impact (you are protected legally from discrimination), "friends" that no longer value you (but in turn highlights the fact that they were never real friends anyway if they would treat you this way - ultimately a benefit).

    Be brave -you don't need to rush it either as this is such an important thing but don't wait until your 30s and 40s and regret all those lost years.


  • #36
    eaglach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 225 ✭✭eaglach


    filmbuffboy wrote: »
    why do you need to find a guy with the same interests?
    filmbuffboy wrote: »
    i honestly think so many gay men out there are single cause they are too picky.

    I'm going to have to be brief because I have a lot of comments to respond to! I apologise. As I said before, the only guy I've been really interested in has had the same interests as me. Other guys may be attractive or funny, but they just don't stick in my mind as someone I'd be interested in. I don't think about them at all when I'm not around them. Is that being too picky?
    1ZRed wrote: »
    How are you supposed to even find a guy to settle down with if you really do not want to come out.
    Look man, the longer you leave it the harder it's going to be and the more unhappy you will be in denying all of this. Wouldn't it be so much easier if you came out and was able to be open and relaxed about this instead of relying on blank profiles on websites?
    I understand the stakes are high for you but honestly don't live up to your user name and remain fearfull. That's not a way to live by and it won't make you any happier but just waste your time.

    Who's to say a guy won't come up to you if you were just drinking at the bar? If you hit into a guy and got talking you never know where things could go. He could be straight but you'd get that vibe off of him eventually anyway and no harm done. There are guys that are out there without a lot of confidence just like you so I wouldn't worry. And besides, if you do come out, a good chunk of confidence comes with it and it only keeps growing the more open and comfortable you get with yourself. You'll never become confident by using these sites though.

    First of all, I'm surprised someone caught on to my name!

    Secondly, as I said, I am out to some of my close friends. I got it off my chest and it has been a release, but I don't feel the need to tell anyone else. I don't see why I should have to tell anyone actually. Maybe if a conversation actually lead to that situation I might tell them, but just to say it for no reason?


    1ZRed wrote: »
    To me, all you're doing is making things appear as though it's all so tough for you and you're the only one struggling away.
    You're not.
    So if you want to be that guy that is in the closet all his life, go right ahead. That's the lonely road full of a lot of regret, disappointment and a heap of 'what ifs'. I know this is a very hard thing to do but if you want to find that perfect guy that lives up to all your expectations, he won't be found if you're stuck in the closet and totally disillusioned to what it is to be gay and everything that comes with it if you so readily critisised something you never experienced. (calling back on the gay bar comment)

    To me it's you who's being immature about this whole situation by letting your fear take over and feeling like you should give up because it's all so hopeless. You're a man, no excuses, no whining. Some men go through this much later in life when the consequences are much more severe so I have little sympathy for you if you think that way. If you keep going the way you are with the brakes on with all of this, you'll be joining their ranks in no time.
    Time will only pass you by and what will you have achieved for yourself?
    I think that's the worst outcome and the biggest consequence by not doing anything.

    Well again, I am out to friends. What I'm worried about is certain people finding out. If you have the mentality that "oh it doesn't matter who knows as long as you're happy" that's bull****. Especially with regards to work. If someone in work found out I was gay, others could find out. Maybe my boss is a homophobe and I'd miss a promotion, or worse, fired. That's a realistic fear and not something that should be risked just for a night out in The George.
    1ZRed wrote: »
    I'll be perfectly honest. I have no time for guys like you that think they have it all worse while the rest of us had it easy and decide that the risks are too much yet complain that that life isn't working out for them.

    Well thats just putting words in my mouth. When did I ever say that I had it worse than others?
    face1990 wrote: »
    Coming out not only helps you mentally & emotionally (keeping something like that bottled up isn't healthy in the long term), but it can also help you to meet guys. I've recently gotten my first proper relationship going and I only met the guy through mutual friends who knew we were both gay and introduced us. Not like set us up on a date, just invited us both along to a party and we hit it off.

    I think the real problem is that I don't know anyone like me. Lets say I know one hundred or so guys personally around my age. Not one of them that I know is a "straight-acting" gay guy. A guy like me. Is it that 99% of straight acting guys stay in the closet? What's the deal? I know people tell me online that they are not camp and out, but I just find it all hard to belive to be honest.
    ongarboy wrote: »
    You fear the risks of coming out. Would it help to write down a list of the risks on one side and benefits on the the other side and see what outweighs the other. I'm hoping benefits like honesty with yourself and others, freedom, inner peace, lack of burden on your shoulders, increased options for meeting new friends and hopefully a soul mate will be more important to you than risks such as a minority of ill informed people frowning upon you, career impact (you are protected legally from discrimination), "friends" that no longer value you (but in turn highlights the fact that they were never real friends anyway if they would treat you this way - ultimately a benefit).

    Be brave -you don't need to rush it either as this is such an important thing but don't wait until your 30s and 40s and regret all those lost years.

    I don't have the time to comment on everything that was said here but as said above, my career could be affected - laws can't protect you against something that can't be proven (discrimination).

    I don't know why this has turned into a conversation about me coming out when I am out to friends. It has certainly strayed off-topic.


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  • #37
    Aurongroove
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Aurongroove


    I know people tell me online that they are not camp and out, but I just find it all hard to belive to be honest.

    I find this interesting.

    So altogether you're saying you'd never go to gay venues, You're not prepared to take any risks in straight venues and added to that, you don't believe guys on-line who claim to be out but also say they're 'not camp'.

    First of all, come on dude. Do you realistically believe you're the only person who's a "straight acting" gay man? I already know so many people on this forum alone who can relate to your precise story.
    Don't believe me? Just read some of the other threads. You're bound to find one. What's more if someone dosn't start a thread containing at least one paragraph about "not being a typical gay/not liking camp behaviour" in the next 30 days, I will eat my tank top.

    Secondly, a question. How put off are you by camp behaviour? are you put off a normal amount or are you actually intolerant of it? I mean Jesus; you meet a guy, he's too camp, you move on. It's not like your going to lose your testicles.
    I met a guy the last day I had my eye on for a week or two. He finally decided to say something to me and he had the strongest ****ing gay lisp I'd ever heard. I polity laughed back at whatever he said, had a friendly conversation with him and subsequently parted ways: easy.

    Thirdly, if you A; will never go to gay venue, B; won't take risks with seemingly straight people who are probably straight in straight venues and C; find it hard to accept the creditability of online gayfolk, Then you're knocking out three of the biggest avenues for socializing.
    You need to either take a leap of faith or change your outlook.
    You have no choice but to do at least some of these things. I chose to accept going to gay venues and accept on-line communication (as you may know:D). I still won't risk asking people in straight venues if they are or are not gay but hey, 2 out of 3 ain't bad. sure I get some iffy dates from the online part and sure I meet 60 "twinks" for every 1 person I find physically attractive in a gay venue. But at least I occasionally meet the right people, make great friends and have interesting nights out along the way.

    Seriously man, there's some accurate responses to your woes in this thread.


  • #38
    face1990
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭face1990


    Aurongroove wrote: »
    I find this interesting.

    So altogether you're saying you'd never go to gay venues, You're not prepared to take any risks in straight venues and added to that, you don't believe guys on-line who claim to be out but also say they're 'not camp'.

    OP, I agree with what Aurongroove is saying. Personally, I myself am out to all of my family & friends (unemployed, so no work colleagues to speak of) and am very straight-acting. The problem is, you probably don't believe me. :p

    You're complaining about the lack of straight acting gays, but also refusing to believe anyone who says they are. It's catch 22!
    I think the problem isn't so much the lack of them, but your scepticism about the very existance of them!

    I don't want this to seem overly critical of you OP, I mean it as constructive criticism. We all face problems like this and sometimes we need outside perspectives to show us where we're going wrong, or thinking the wrong way about our problem.


  • #39
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    First of all, I'm surprised someone caught on to my name!

    Secondly, as I said, I am out to some of my close friends. I got it off my chest and it has been a release, but I don't feel the need to tell anyone else. I don't see why I should have to tell anyone actually. Maybe if a conversation actually lead to that situation I might tell them, but just to say it for no reason?
    I caught onto it straight away. I'm a fluent Irish speaker.

    Well that's fine you don't have to tell more people because it's your decision but I'm surprised you're still so reserved about being gay and trying to hide it. If you were truely comfortable with it you would be more free to do what you wanted without any reservations. But I can see you are not.

    Well again, I am out to friends. What I'm worried about is certain people finding out. If you have the mentality that "oh it doesn't matter who knows as long as you're happy" that's bull****. Especially with regards to work. If someone in work found out I was gay, others could find out. Maybe my boss is a homophobe and I'd miss a promotion, or worse, fired. That's a realistic fear and not something that should be risked just for a night out in The George.
    So what's bull****? What the **** do you want? You want to be closeted because you can't face the reactions that are mostly in your head? I understand you want to be carefull at work but you're not the first gay guy to ever work somewhere. So you shouldn't let that be a factor in influencing what you do in your personal life. Fuck sake, my sister works in an office full of gay men. Some camp, some masculine. It's not a big deal and I've grown to understand that, how come in your years you haven't learned to do the same?
    You love to think about the "what ifs" and the fear of doing anything.
    Your boss can't discriminate against you and you aren't the only gay guy where you work so it's not as if it's going to be a massive event where you get fired, unless you work at a church.
    Sorry to break what special thing you had going where you thought you were the only one.
    And once I'm fully out should I hide that from my employer too just because it might be taken badly? No. I have too much self respect for that. Being gay isn't some flaw to be hidden, and over the last year, I've come to realise that.



    And I'm not saying go to a gay bar. You seem to think that's where we all love to go once we've come out and that's where you have to be. Go to a straight bar and meet guys. If you're there with your 'out' friends they'll point you to a gay friend of theirs or be your wing man and take the pressure off you. It's what the majority of straight lads do because women came be very intimidating. And it's an absolute laugh to go on the pull with your mates and have each others backs.
    Well thats just putting words in my mouth. When did I ever say that I had it worse than others?

    You said you were 'the only one' and that you're afraid you'll wind up alone and I wouldn't understand anything because I see the world as 'rainbows and sunshine' while you have it tough in the real world with all your worries that I'm without.
    How much clearer do I have to be? You're playing the victim and it's your own fault for locking yourself away from these experiences because of your fear and misplaced stereotypes and assumptions. But it's alright because you justify it because only camp flamers do those things. Which you strongly protest you're not and think the majority of guys are. You're wrong.

    I think the real problem is that I don't know anyone like me. Lets say I know one hundred or so guys personally around my age. Not one of them that I know is a "straight-acting" gay guy. A guy like me. Is it that 99% of straight acting guys stay in the closet? What's the deal? I know people tell me online that they are not camp and out, but I just find it all hard to belive to be honest.

    And how would you know?you've never been out on the scene to call those shots and come up with that figure! You haven't seen gay guys at a straight club because you haven't looked or noticed them because they look like normal guys and you're too afraid to go find out. Likewise, you never went to a gay club to see normal guys there either.
    You're in no position to make assumptions if you haven't even entered the 'real world' as you say. Websites are not reality so I would stop making statements like that purely based on them alone.
    The majority of gay guys I meet are straight acting and masculine. I notice them because I go out and find them. If all you did was step back and look in, all you would see is camp men because they stick out and are noticeable whereas the normal guys are just that - normal, so we blend into the straight guys. Btw I have never been with a camp guy ever. All very masculine. That 99% in closet figure is in your head because the masculine guys make up the majority by far. If you got out there you'd realise it pretty quickly.

    And even on those websites it is predominantly masculine guys that I see and when messaging back and forth, I know damn well that they are masculine and not camp. It's really obvious in their humour and wording but I think you're just so against anything remotely camp, that any little thing that doesn't suit you scares you off. That or you don't have a good judge of character.
    If you're using blank profiles on these sites no normal guy will give you the light of day. I wouldn't and lots of guys like me wouldn't either. Even on the websites you're limiting your options.

    Honestly man, you claim to want straight acting guys yet you don't sound all that much like it to me if all you do is whine, complain and stay shrouded in fear from the repercussions of it all. You're a man, grow a pair of balls and get about being open about yourself and out there on the scene, otherwise stop complaining if you can't find a guy. I wouldn't want someone who was so afraid of being outed. Fair enough you're out to friends, but you haven't done anything substantial with it when you have the support.

    There's little to lose and a lot to gain. All those fears aren't real. They never are. Every single guy that comes out makes mountains out of molehills with this, me included, so it won't be as bad as you think, far from it. I think you just need to give yourself a fair shot at finding a guy and be fulfilled by that without any limits getting in the way.
    I don't know why this has turned into a conversation about me coming out when I am out to friends. It has certainly strayed off-topic.

    Well what do you want? You're just telling us you can't find any guys like you when you haven't looked away from your computer screen to find them.
    If you're going to ignore the advice and valid points of the guys here and not take anything way from it, then what the hell do you want from us?
    I have my own experience and these guys have theirs in abundance so why not listen up and take it onboard. You know I was a lot like you not so long ago but I'm learning fast and becoming more comfortable with it all so it's slow but steady progress in the right direction.
    You call me a kid but between the two of us, who is the one learning, setting the fear aside and going out to experience this with an open mind? It's me, the kid.

    It's you that's the basis of your problem and once you sort out our deluded mindset and warped assumptions about the "gay scene" then you'll find that guy no bother. I know I'm coming down on you hard but I just don't get what you want if you're not going to listen to what these guys are saying and not put yourself out there for your own good. Whatever you had to lose wasn't yours to own in the first place. It's not going to be an easy thing to accept or hear but it's true. You'll always get support and reasurance if you ask for it so you'll never have to worry about that man.

    At the end of the day all you have is yourself and if you deny yourself all of that, you've only ever lived a half life and for what and for who, if you never found the guy to settle down with


  • #40
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    First off, what was so hard to suss out about the user name? Should be obvious to anybody who did 6th class Irish?

    A lot has been said already, which I won't rehash, but I do have to say one thing. I get that you have concerns about work, etc, fair enough. I don't know what you work at and whether there are any particular risks in the job compared to the rest of us (teaching in a catholic school for example). However, the vast majority of gay people who are "out" have to face much the same risks in their job. It's not that we have a "sure aren't we happy being gay, who care about work" attitude.

    Its that we take the view that the risks and consequences quite frankly arent so grave that we should make ourselves miserable by hiding in the closet rather than living our lives.

    It's a choice. You can choose to put your work and career over your happiness if you want. But you need to be conscious that its a choice that your making, and you have to accept that it will mean that your opportunities to meet people and have relationships will be greatly reduced. if your job means that much to you, fine.

    Personally though I dont think any job is worth living my life in fear.

    Frankly i think you still have a lot of hang-ups and misconceptions about being gay. I've been there myself, but its something you need to get over. The only way you can do that is to get out there and meet actual gay people. Not even in night clubs, but in any of the social groups - wet and wild, the soccer or rugby teams, the tennis or squash - there's loads of them.

    I don't think there is any point in making the point about how "normal" and "masculine" most gay men are. i think you need to get out there and see for yourself.

    You don't have to come out to do so - its not like everybody shows up to these things in rainbow uniforms. there is plenty of people in these groups who aren't fully out.

    If you choose not to do these things though, then you unfortunately struggle to meet the type of guys you want to.


  • #41
    bleepp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81 ✭✭bleepp


    floggg wrote: »
    I don't know what you work at and whether there are any particular risks in the job compared to the rest of us (teaching in a catholic school for example).

    With all going to plan I should be a qualified Primary Teacher in two years but surly you couldn't be denied a job based on sexuality? I know its the board of management that ultimately hires you, of which the local Priest is usually the head so I suppose it could happen? and with 93% of Primary schools under the patronage of the Catholic Church the chances are I'll find myself looking for a job in one.


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  • #42
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    bleepp wrote: »
    With all going to plan I should be a qualified Primary Teacher in two years but surly you couldn't be denied a job based on sexuality? I know its the board of management that ultimately hires you, of which the local Priest is usually the head so I suppose it could happen? and with 93% of Primary schools under the patronage of the Catholic Church the chances are I'll find myself looking for a job in one.

    Unfortunately theres a carve out from equality legislation for religious institutions that allows them to discriminate against stff on religious grounds. So there are risks for teachers in being out in work.


  • #43
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    bleepp wrote: »
    With all going to plan I should be a qualified Primary Teacher in two years but surly you couldn't be denied a job based on sexuality? I know its the board of management that ultimately hires you, of which the local Priest is usually the head so I suppose it could happen? and with 93% of Primary schools under the patronage of the Catholic Church the chances are I'll find myself looking for a job in one.

    I'm not sure how section 37 operates - anyway maybe that should be here

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=73123847

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #44
    mnlad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48 ✭mnlad


    been reading this tread and i kinda get were the OP is coming from on certain points, i think basically OP you havent reached a stage were you have accepted yourself, now i cant particulary talk as only very recently when some things were put in perspective did i accept myself and so far i gotta say im a different person mentally in myself i feel so much happier with just the little step of accepting myself, before when i was fighting with myself i had that opinion that number 1 all guys would out me if they were out and that all guys i chated with on grindr etc where camp sterotypical guys, but ive since copped myself on and actually chatted with these guys without a predetermined mindset and ive been chatting with a really great guy and so far its looking great, also on the meeting guys even in pubs ive caught myself checking out guys and getting the eyes back but i never acted on it, even in college i got hit on more times from guys on nights out than girls so much so that my friends suggested i go gay:D how ironic even they knew before i did but, but those were guys i never suspected at all and i started realising that i hey i might just find a guy like me into sports, cars etc... but i think OP when you reach that stage were you finally say hey im gay time to get on with life and stop feeling sorry for myself its a great feeling, dont get me wrong still a way to go personnally and i dont plan on telling the world im gay just a few select friends, but you have got some great advice here from everyone and its great that there is the support here, its very helpful to read other peoples comments experiences etc... and its given me the get up to stop mopping around and get on with my life because i realise now i was my own worst enemy, it took me nearly 10 years to finally accept myself only wish i had earlier but it takes its own time i guess


  • #45
    eaglach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 225 ✭✭eaglach


    Aurongroove wrote: »
    First of all, come on dude. Do you realistically believe you're the only person who's a "straight acting" gay man? I already know so many people on this forum alone who can relate to your precise story.
    Don't believe me? Just read some of the other threads. You're bound to find one. What's more if someone dosn't start a thread containing at least one paragraph about "not being a typical gay/not liking camp behaviour" in the next 30 days, I will eat my tank top.

    I never said I was the only straight acting guy. People putting words in my mouth again.
    face1990 wrote: »
    OP, I agree with what Aurongroove is saying. Personally, I myself am out to all of my family & friends (unemployed, so no work colleagues to speak of) and am very straight-acting. The problem is, you probably don't believe me. :p

    You're complaining about the lack of straight acting gays, but also refusing to believe anyone who says they are. It's catch 22!
    I think the problem isn't so much the lack of them, but your scepticism about the very existance of them!

    Well, I have yet to meet a straight acting gay guy. I do not know one straight acting guy. I have met a couple guys from online who said they were straight acting but were far from it. Maybe I've just been unlucky, but I'm basing it on experience.
    1ZRed wrote: »
    Well that's fine you don't have to tell more people because it's your decision but I'm surprised you're still so reserved about being gay and trying to hide it. If you were truely comfortable with it you would be more free to do what you wanted without any reservations. But I can see you are not.

    I am free to do what I want. There is nothing stopping me from doing what I want. Anything I do is a choice, not something that is forced upon me. I choose not to go to gay bars/clubs.
    1ZRed wrote: »
    Your boss can't discriminate against you and you aren't the only gay guy where you work so it's not as if it's going to be a massive event where you get fired, unless you work at a church.
    Sorry to break what special thing you had going where you thought you were the only one.
    And once I'm fully out should I hide that from my employer too just because it might be taken badly? No. I have too much self respect for that. Being gay isn't some flaw to be hidden, and over the last year, I've come to realise that.

    You're being a bit dramatic... again. I don't believe myself to be the only gay guy in a job despite what you think. Just think, if you were going for a job interview and lets say you were into Death Metal music, would you mention that to your employer? Probably not. Why not? Of course there's nothing wrong with liking that music, but it might hamper your chances of being hired. Same thing with mentioning being gay. Personal life and work life shouldn't mix.
    1ZRed wrote: »
    And I'm not saying go to a gay bar. You seem to think that's where we all love to go once we've come out and that's where you have to be. Go to a straight bar and meet guys. If you're there with your 'out' friends they'll point you to a gay friend of theirs or be your wing man and take the pressure off you. It's what the majority of straight lads do because women came be very intimidating. And it's an absolute laugh to go on the pull with your mates and have each others backs.

    Ha, I definitely would never 'go on the pull' with my mates. I think it would be extremely awkward for everyone involved!
    1ZRed wrote: »
    You said you were 'the only one'

    I never said that. You seem to enjoy making things up. In fact, searching through the pages, you seem to be the one that keeps saying I'm the only one. I think you're getting a bit confused.
    1ZRed wrote: »
    And how would you know?you've never been out on the scene to call those shots and come up with that figure! You haven't seen gay guys at a straight club because you haven't looked or noticed them because they look like normal guys and you're too afraid to go find out. Likewise, you never went to a gay club to see normal guys there either.
    You're in no position to make assumptions if you haven't even entered the 'real world' as you say. Websites are not reality so I would stop making statements like that purely based on them alone.
    The majority of gay guys I meet are straight acting and masculine. I notice them because I go out and find them. If all you did was step back and look in, all you would see is camp men because they stick out and are noticeable whereas the normal guys are just that - normal, so we blend into the straight guys. Btw I have never been with a camp guy ever. All very masculine. That 99% in closet figure is in your head because the masculine guys make up the majority by far. If you got out there you'd realise it pretty quickly.

    My assumptions were based of my own experiences. As I said above, I don't know any straight acting gay guys and the guys I met online claimed to be straight acting and weren't.
    1ZRed wrote: »
    And even on those websites it is predominantly masculine guys that I see and when messaging back and forth, I know damn well that they are masculine and not camp. It's really obvious in their humour and wording but I think you're just so against anything remotely camp, that any little thing that doesn't suit you scares you off. That or you don't have a good judge of character.

    I have talked to many guys online. I have chatted to many for a good deal of time as well. Sure some of them are nice and friendly, but I will agree with you on one thing - any sign of campness and I'm outta there. It's just a complete turn off.
    1ZRed wrote: »
    Well what do you want? You're just telling us you can't find any guys like you when you haven't looked away from your computer screen to find them.

    Well technically, seeing as I'm trying to find guys online like me, wouldn't guys like me also be online? I'd imagine a guy like me (or a guy I would like) wouldn't be in gay bars or clubs.
    1ZRed wrote: »
    If you're going to ignore the advice and valid points of the guys here and not take anything way from it, then what the hell do you want from us?

    I appreciate all the comments, but it seems to mewhat you guys are saying is that the only way to find a guy with similar interests (similar interest also being not going to gay bars/clubs) is to go to a gay bar/club? I just don't understand it. However, I may decide to go to a gay bar one night, to get it out of my system, and to have a fully informed opinion on the matter. I think once I go, any arguement I make for or against gay bars will probably be a bit more valid.
    floggg wrote: »
    First off, what was so hard to suss out about the user name? Should be obvious to anybody who did 6th class Irish?

    Well not many people understands Irish these days I'm afraid. And also, even if you understood the name you may not have associated it with the topics in my posts.
    floggg wrote: »
    It's a choice. You can choose to put your work and career over your happiness if you want. But you need to be conscious that its a choice that your making, and you have to accept that it will mean that your opportunities to meet people and have relationships will be greatly reduced. if your job means that much to you, fine.

    Work and career over happiness? You do know you can gain happiness from your career as well, don't you? Not everyones life revolves around relationships. You have to strike a balance between work, relationships, leisure etc.

    It's pretty late now, so I can really think clearly. Hopefully I've made some coherent comments! Thanks.


  • #46
    jaydoxx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 334 ✭✭jaydoxx


    eaglach wrote: »
    Well, I have yet to meet a straight acting gay guy. I do not know one straight acting guy. I have met a couple guys from online who said they were straight acting but were far from it. Maybe I've just been unlucky, but I'm basing it on experience.

    Out of curiosity. If you were in a room with 100 "straight acting" people, how would you determine who is gay? Or would you just assume that everyone is straight to prove your point that you're the only straight acting gay in the village?

    As for your second point. People lie, get over it. And in their defence maybe they lie so people will give them a chance and not write them off for being themselves. I think you need to give people the benefit of the doubt, and this is coming from a "sraight acting"(hate that term:p) guy who isn't particularly attracted to feminine men.

    eaglach wrote: »
    My assumptions were based of my own experiences. As I said above, I don't know any straight acting gay guys and the guys I met online claimed to be straight acting and weren't.

    You realise that's called prejudice? Also if you're getting so burned from all the liars who are on these dating websites why do you continue to use them? Obviously online dating doesn't attract the guys you hope to meet.
    eaglach wrote: »
    Well technically, seeing as I'm trying to find guys online like me, wouldn't guys like me also be online? I'd imagine a guy like me (or a guy I would like) wouldn't be in gay bars or clubs.

    Or maybe they've copped on and realised they are as likely to meet themselves online as they are in their day to day lives? Doing things they actually enjoy:p

    For example if you're looking for someone who (i dunno) plays the viola, where are you most likely to find him? Sure he might be into online dating, but odds are he'll be playing his viola in a classical music society or some junk.

    Don't limit your love life to people who share your exact tastes, embrace the difference and grow as a person. How do you know you don't like what they like if you don't even give people a chance to show their true colours because their voice is 1 pitch higher than absolutely ideal?

    Now I'm not saying you should settle for second best. But I am saying you should lighten the hell up and enjoy your life. People will gravitate to that and even if you end up living alone at least you can be happy and content and not full of regret.


    tl;dr go meet people in real life with the same interests as you. But not so you can meet your clone, so you can meet people with the same interests as you. Widen your circle of friends and also just come out of the closet for your own sake. Happiness is just a decision away, don't make the wrong one.

    Peace and shiz:cool:


  • #47
    Rick_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Rick_


    I'd love to prove you wrong that I am not camp, considering we have chatted online. Do you not believe me that I'm not? :p

    You also seem to have a lot of pre-conceived notions in your own head that you need to dispel as they are doing you no favours.

    I used to think like you. I wouldn't go to gay bars and did nothing but look at guys online as I figured that the only guys I'd have any interest in would only be online. Then I wised up and went out into the real world and realised that's a load of horse****e. Different types of guys are everywhere and you have as much chance of meeting your ideal match in a gay bar as you have online, at the supermarket or anywhere else human beings attend.

    To be honest, the amount of negativity you have about a lot of things easily points to you not actually being fully accepting of your homosexuality yet, so perhaps you should deal with those issues before you go looking for someone to have in your life. As RuPaul says, ''If you can't love yourself, how in the hell are you gonna love somebody else?''

    I'd love to talk online to you more, don't think this post is in any way me outting you down or anything, it's more constructive criticism. Believe me, I've bene where you have, a lot of guys have, and sooner or later you will realise how silly your way of thinking is. I just hope you realise it sooner or you're gonna look back and relise all the time you've wasted. I didn't do it until I was 26, there's a good 10 years of my life I wasted because I didn't put myself out there and try and have a life. I spent it sitting in front of a computer being unsociable and missing out on a lot of experiences younger guys have. Hindsight is always 20/20 though, so please don't end up the same. :)


  • #48
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    eaglach wrote: »
    I never said I was the only straight acting guy. People putting words in my mouth again.
    I get the feeling I'm on my own in this whole gay community
    eaglach wrote: »
    Well, I have yet to meet a straight acting gay guy. I do not know one straight acting guy. I have met a couple guys from online who said they were straight acting but were far from it. Maybe I've just been unlucky, but I'm basing it on experience.

    Well have you met them in person or have you even skyped them? I just went onto grindr there and I saw a heap of masculine guys and got talking to a lot too. They seem to pass the test.

    I'm more interested to know how you use these sites. I assume you have a blank profile because you haven't denied it in previous posts so if that's the case a huge amount of guys won't even give you the time of day. You're basically just limiting yourself even more if I'm right with my assumptions.

    eaglach wrote: »
    You're being a bit dramatic... again. I don't believe myself to be the only gay guy in a job despite what you think. Just think, if you were going for a job interview and lets say you were into Death Metal music, would you mention that to your employer? Probably not. Why not? Of course there's nothing wrong with liking that music, but it might hamper your chances of being hired. Same thing with mentioning being gay. Personal life and work life shouldn't mix.

    Yeah because out of the two of us I'm the one being dramatic :rolleyes:
    EH no I wouldn't mention it, no more than a straight guy would plain out say "I'm straight" but if I was talking to co workers and I came around to telling them I wouldn't care. I'm gay. What am I supposed to do, lie?
    Anyway if you know you're not the only gay guy at work how could this be such a huge issue for you? If there's another guy your boss is hardly going to go crazy. But I don't see an issue with you keeping it to yourself, I get that. I just don't get the unnecessary paranoia revolving around the subject.
    eaglach wrote: »
    Ha, I definitely would never 'go on the pull' with my mates. I think it would be extremely awkward for everyone involved!

    Just shows up how you're so uncomfortable with yourself. It's a normal thing to do with friends. The only thing that would make it awkward is your view and attitude towards the idea. If you were confident in yourself, there would be no question of awkwardness.
    eaglach wrote: »
    I never said that. You seem to enjoy making things up. In fact, searching through the pages, you seem to be the one that keeps saying I'm the only one. I think you're getting a bit confused.

    You said you were on your own in this community which means that you think you are the only one of your type.
    eaglach wrote: »
    My assumptions were based of my own experiences. As I said above, I don't know any straight acting gay guys and the guys I met online claimed to be straight acting and weren't.

    Well how come I meet them the whole time? Have you ever actually physically spoken to them to know?
    eaglach wrote: »
    I have talked to many guys online. I have chatted to many for a good deal of time as well. Sure some of them are nice and friendly, but I will agree with you on one thing - any sign of campness and I'm outta there. It's just a complete turn off.

    I'd love for you to describe yourself. I have never met a guy as masculine and as anti-camp as you, you must be a real life action man OP!:rolleyes: In fact I'm actually tempted to chat to you on grindr to see how you stack up.
    And I bet I'll come out more masculine (not that it even matters but it does to you) I'm definitely not the only masculine guy on this forum either, not by a long shot.
    eaglach wrote: »
    Well technically, seeing as I'm trying to find guys online like me, wouldn't guys like me also be online? I'd imagine a guy like me (or a guy I would like) wouldn't be in gay bars or clubs.

    Yeah maybe in a parallel universe but the odds of that happening are slim to none. You'll never find your doppelgänger, ever. But If you joined clubs that you were interested in, you'll find a load of guys way easier that fit you better than any online site ever could.
    eaglach wrote: »
    I appreciate all the comments, but it seems to mewhat you guys are saying is that the only way to find a guy with similar interests (similar interest also being not going to gay bars/clubs) is to go to a gay bar/club? I just don't understand it. However, I may decide to go to a gay bar one night, to get it out of my system, and to have a fully informed opinion on the matter. I think once I go, any arguement I make for or against gay bars will probably be a bit more valid.

    The only reason why they are telling you that is because it's so much easier to meet guys at a gay club than a straight one. Seems to make sense.
    I keep telling you you don't have to go to a gay bar. But go and actually find out how they actually are, it's no harm.
    After that why not hit up a straight club and try to meet guys there. If you don't want to be outed by going to The George or whatever else, there will be no fear of that happening at a normal club.


  • #49
    baby and crumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,510 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    For what it's worth, I met my partner doing charity work for the St. Vincent de Paul. I was just doing what I enjoy, and lo and behold, there's this gorgeous chick who I was crushing on, and huzzah! She was into chicks too, and more specifically into me! :D:cool: In fact most of the couples I know met their partners- at least the ones they've stuck with, rather than the randomers- at things other than gay clubs.

    I think most people here are simply saying that if you rule out people online, people in gay bars/ clubs, and people in general life, then well... who's left? No-one.


  • #50
    eaglach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 225 ✭✭eaglach


    jaydoxx wrote: »
    Out of curiosity. If you were in a room with 100 "straight acting" people, how would you determine who is gay? Or would you just assume that everyone is straight to prove your point that you're the only straight acting gay in the village?

    My example of 100 people is based off a sample of 100 guys I know. I do not know anyone personally that is a straight acting gay guy. It's not an assumption. It is a fact.
    Paddy C wrote: »
    To be honest, the amount of negativity you have about a lot of things easily points to you not actually being fully accepting of your homosexuality yet, so perhaps you should deal with those issues before you go looking for someone to have in your life. As RuPaul says, ''If you can't love yourself, how in the hell are you gonna love somebody else?''

    I don't know where you're getting that from. If I didn't "accept my homosexuality" would I ever have met up with other guys? No. I think a more accurate statement is that I am not embracing the camp side of homosexuality!
    1ZRed wrote: »
    Well have you met them in person or have you even skyped them? I just went onto grindr there and I saw a heap of masculine guys and got talking to a lot too. They seem to pass the test.

    Met them in person.
    1ZRed wrote: »
    I'm more interested to know how you use these sites. I assume you have a blank profile because you haven't denied it in previous posts so if that's the case a huge amount of guys won't even give you the time of day. You're basically just limiting yourself even more if I'm right with my assumptions.

    Blank profile? No. I have more on my profile than most. Something more inventive than most others profiles. And if you mean a photo, I have a photo, but not of my face. Actually, if someone messages me and they have a face pic on their profile I will more than likely not talk to them. May sound harsh, but my God, it's very foolish to put a photo on a seedy website like that.
    1ZRed wrote: »
    EH no I wouldn't mention it, no more than a straight guy would plain out say "I'm straight" but if I was talking to co workers and I came around to telling them I wouldn't care. I'm gay. What am I supposed to do, lie?
    Anyway if you know you're not the only gay guy at work how could this be such a huge issue for you? If there's another guy your boss is hardly going to go crazy. But I don't see an issue with you keeping it to yourself, I get that. I just don't get the unnecessary paranoia revolving around the subject.

    Oh no, I wouldn't lie. I'd just skip the question. Avoid it. The same goes for a lot of things in my life. I'm not entirely open about everything to everyone. Some people in my life know I'm a metal fan, others don't. I don't think full disclosure is necessarily the best option in every situation.

    And once again, please read carefully what I wrote. I said I know I'm not the only gay guy with a job, not that I know a gay guy in my workplace.
    1ZRed wrote: »
    Just shows up how you're so uncomfortable with yourself. It's a normal thing to do with friends. The only thing that would make it awkward is your view and attitude towards the idea. If you were confident in yourself, there would be no question of awkwardness.

    Who said I was confident? And my mates don't do the whole wing man thing. And even if they did, I wouldn't push the whole gay thing onto them. Maybe they're not comfortable with it, I don't know. I don't want to overstep my bounds, especially if I asked them to help me score some dude. Anyways, I don't really chat about the whole gay thing with them. I remember trying to test the waters by making a couple of gay jokes to test the waters and I just got awkward laughs so I didn't try any further.
    1ZRed wrote: »
    You said you were on your own in this community which means that you think you are the only one of your type.

    No, I didn't say that. Keep twisting. I said I feel alone. That doesn't mean I'm the only one. It just means I haven't encountered anyone like myself.
    1ZRed wrote: »
    Well how come I meet them the whole time? Have you ever actually physically spoken to them to know?

    Yes.
    1ZRed wrote: »
    I'd love for you to describe yourself. I have never met a guy as masculine and as anti-camp as you, you must be a real life action man OP!:rolleyes: In fact I'm actually tempted to chat to you on grindr to see how you stack up.
    And I bet I'll come out more masculine (not that it even matters but it does to you) I'm definitely not the only masculine guy on this forum either, not by a long shot.

    I didn't realise this was a competition. And whats wrong with having certain turn-offs? I'm sure there are certain things that you come across when you meet a guy that may irritate you.
    1ZRed wrote: »
    Yeah maybe in a parallel universe but the odds of that happening are slim to none. You'll never find your doppelgänger, ever. But If you joined clubs that you were interested in, you'll find a load of guys way easier that fit you better than any online site ever could.

    Well I have been members of clubs. Did I meet any gay guys? No. Well maybe I did. Maybe they were all gay and straight acting. But how was I to know. Maybe I should have borrowed your magical gaydar.
    1ZRed wrote: »
    After that why not hit up a straight club and try to meet guys there.

    I just honestly don't see that as an option. I well believe you that you are able to pick up gay guys at a "straight" club, but me? Nope. Maybe if they were waving a rainbow flag and making out with a dude I might be able to, but even that's a stretch.


    Well if I didn't feel alone earlier on, I certainly do now! I don't think anyone shares my views on any of the matters raised. A bit disheartening.


  • #51
    bleepp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81 ✭✭bleepp


    OP- I don't really know what to say to you. There is no need to feel disheartened as you are definitely not the first gay guy to feel slightly disillusioned with it all. You say you don't like campness and that there is no guy in the gay world that you can relate to? Well at least that's what I got from your posts, but to make claims like that without being out in the "scene" is misguided and plain wrong. How do you know there are no guys out there like you if you haven't went out and searched for them? Diversity is rampant in all areas of life, including homosexuality so believe me, there is someone out there for you but remaining in the closet and feeling sorry for yourself wont achieve anything but will just adversely effect you mental health. I wouldn't have much faith in internet sites like gaydar and such so don't base your opinions on your browsing experience.
    I think you haven't accepted your sexuality yet if i'm being honest and speaking from experience everything is a lot lot better and clearer when you firstly accept who you are and then grow to love your sexuality. It ain't easy mate but its a bridge all gay people have to cross.

    Most importantly remember that everyone here has your best interests at heart and if you do come out you will find your friends will accept you too, and if they don't they aren't worthy of your friendship.

    Don't feel down man :) life is worth living, begin a new chapter in your life and just embrace who you are and experience that part of yourself that's been kept hidden for so long. It's something I have to do yet myself so I know how scary the whole thing can be.


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  • #52
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    My example of 100 people is based off a sample of 100 guys I know. I do not know anyone personally that is a straight acting gay guy. It's not an assumption. It is a fact.

    I wouldn't trust your facts if you don't even try to meet and seek out straight acting gay men and instead just see the obvious camp ones.

    I don't know where you're getting that from. If I didn't "accept my homosexuality" would I ever have met up with other guys? No. I think a more accurate statement is that I am not embracing the camp side of homosexuality!
    I accept my sexuality fully and I'm becoming more and more open about it (eventhough I'm going through a lot right now, I still plan on being out before I'm 19) so does that mean I'm becoming more and more camp?
    Fuck no! That was never me. I can't embrace something I never was nor will be.

    Blank profile? No. I have more on my profile than most. Something more inventive than most others profiles. And if you mean a photo, I have a photo, but not of my face. Actually, if someone messages me and they have a face pic on their profile I will more than likely not talk to them. May sound harsh, but my God, it's very foolish to put a photo on a seedy website like that.

    You are doing everything backwards! And those 'seedy sites' are the only thing you actually want to use to find a guy. Find that a bit hypocritical and deluded?
    This is just ridiculous.
    I really think you have some serious issues going on here. I wouldn't give guys like you the time of day because I wouldn't talk to a wall so why would I talk to a blank profile or a guy not open at a level to my liking.
    You think it's foolish but I think it's the mature thing to do if you want to met guys like a normal person and have something more substantial than a hook up. Would you go into a bar with a mask on and expect to find someone?
    Same thing applies. I get that more people could see you from the sites but you're totally just limiting yourself when you protest you have a limited amount of guys to choose from because you're gay in the first place and you even turn them away if they have the maturity to have a face pic.

    Sort out your self esteem issues and view this from other guys perspectives. You want to meet guys and you're not open about yourself on a website yet you still think you can complain you haven't found anyone? If I posted something this ridiculous I'd be taken for a troll.
    If you can't find anyone it's a mixture of luck and your own fault for limiting your options.


    Oh no, I wouldn't lie. I'd just skip the question. Avoid it. The same goes for a lot of things in my life. I'm not entirely open about everything to everyone. Some people in my life know I'm a metal fan, others don't. I don't think full disclosure is necessarily the best option in every situation.
    Go on, do what you like, avoid your problems and watch them stack up until they finally run you into the ground. You'll be guaranteed of that much I assure you.

    The gay thing aside, I think you're way to untrusting and unreasonably conservative. It's ok to let your guard down and share your interests with people.

    Who said I was confident? And my mates don't do the whole wing man thing. And even if they did, I wouldn't push the whole gay thing onto them. Maybe they're not comfortable with it, I don't know. I don't want to overstep my bounds, especially if I asked them to help me score some dude. Anyways, I don't really chat about the whole gay thing with them. I remember trying to test the waters by making a couple of gay jokes to test the waters and I just got awkward laughs so I didn't try any further.
    Well then, your mates don't seem much like mates to me if you can't even be comfortable around them. Overstep your bounds? What are you beneath them
    or something? I take it you're also not very close to them either. Friends don't treat each other like that, at least good ones that actually have a significant place for you don't anyway. Well at the end of the day it is you who sets the tone for your friends. If you came out and weren't completely happy and confident about it and your friends weren't exactly pro-gay, then of course their views would have remained relatively unaltered.
    You can change how they see gay people and make them see that the stereotypes aren't true (you would be proof of that to them) but you see them as real so your 'friends' must also. I dunno man, I wouldn't be long getting rid of people who didn't make me feel welcome or made me repress myself and were supposed to be my mates.
    No, I didn't say that. Keep twisting. I said I feel alone. That doesn't mean I'm the only one. It just means I haven't encountered anyone like myself.
    OK I get that but why must you limit yourself so much? You are asking for a lot yet cast very short nets. You are trying to find yourself. It's impossible and can't be done. Ffs how many years was Barney the fuckin dinosaur trying to hammer home the point that everyone is unique. And it's true so you might as well be looking for the holy grail while you're at it. I love to meet people who are different to me and learn about them and their interests and our shared similarities and differences. It's interesting and just a fact of life, no one of us are alike but it doesn't have to be a bad thing. It's actually a big plus in my book.


    I didn't realise this was a competition. And whats wrong with having certain turn-offs? I'm sure there are certain things that you come across when you meet a guy that may irritate you.

    I made the point that my masculinity didn't matter but you said you we're so repulsed by camp men and could never find a straight acting one, well here I am buddy. You've found one. But other guys here have said that and you don't even believe them so I have to state it for myself.
    And what do you even consider camp? Anything that isn't your type of music, tv/movies, games is it? If you can't find 'normal' guys like you as you say, then I think you consider camp as being more than just a stereotypical flamer.


    Well I have been members of clubs. Did I meet any gay guys? No. Well maybe I did. Maybe they were all gay and straight acting. But how was I to know. Maybe I should have borrowed your magical gaydar.

    Hahaha be a man, make eye contact and go up and ask them. If you were straight would you expect all women to come up to you? or how would you even know if they liked you without sending signals back and forth?
    I don't have magical gaydar, I have balls and I make the effort and try. So I wouldn't complain you're not finding anyone if you're not even going to try.
    I just honestly don't see that as an option. I well believe you that you are able to pick up gay guys at a "straight" club, but me? Nope. Maybe if they were waving a rainbow flag and making out with a dude I might be able to, but even that's a stretch.

    Well stop presuming things and go for it. It's the same for straight people too, if they don't make an effort then they wouldn't find anyone either. They don't have it much easier. If you want to sit at the bar and have a guy come up to you like what happens in straight clubs with girls/guys, then go to a gay bar. At least then it's actually likely to happen so you don't have to approach them. It would ease the pressure off you a bit.
    Well if I didn't feel alone earlier on, I certainly do now! I don't think anyone shares my views on any of the matters raised. A bit disheartening.
    Look man, it was never my intention to make you feel bad, I'm not that kind of guy and I'm not a dick for no reason. I honestly have your best intentions at heart but I'm pretty tough about these things if I feel like the person needs a good kick or wake up call to see sense and get on with achieving what they want. You aren't alone but you need to put yourself out there and learn for yourself that having a slight difference in opinions is both interesting and refreshing.
    I think you need to work out your views on being gay and actually accept yourself and the whole concept of being gay. At least then, you'll be able to learn that everything is actually different to how you perceive it to be in your head. That's a normal learning curve and it's what you do before you grow comfortable and confident in yourself for being gay. It's actually what you should have done before you told anybody.

    Anyway, this has become very long winded and very much back and forth with little progress but you should be able to see that we want to help you out. I don't go to this amount of trouble for everyone you know so give me something back;)


  • #53
    ongarboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭ongarboy


    OP - no one wants you to feel even more alone now than when you started this thread. Is there any chance you could compromise and even try one of the many suggestions offered by other posters here. They are all talking from experience. I don't think everything that has been said is not applicable to you. A lot of the advice given is actually applicable to us all but you seem to challenge or dispute almost every piece of advice been given which I find quite startling.

    Personally, I think you should park the notion of finding other guys right now and prioritise coming to terms with yourself and addressing your self esteem. You come across in your posts as someone who has a hang up about your sexuality and your attitude on how relationships are formed or should work comes across as very flawed. I think if you were more comfortable within your own skin about who you are, your sexuality and your esteem, then your approach to relationships and ability to select, choose and be with the right person would be a lot different and far more successful.

    i mentioned wet'n'wild in an earlier post. Participating in activities like that club will allow you to enter the real world of fellow gay guys (and girls) and see what they are like and understand that, wow, they all don't go around with feather boas, limp wrists and singing "I am what I am". Seeing other normal, well adjusted people who just happen to be gay may help you to respect yourself and the concept of being gay a little more. The relationship seeking and forming can evolve a lot more healthily and successfully from there then.


  • #54
    eaglach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 225 ✭✭eaglach


    Okay, I'm not even going to reply to any comments in particular because I want to get something cleared up.

    Why does everyone keep spouting this bull that I have trouble accepting my sexuality? Seriously, I don't get it. It seems to be this vague comment that is floating around with no real explanation. Is it something people just say? Has it become a new expression that I've somehow missed?

    I don't know how I can accept being gay anymore than I already am. It's pretty black and white. Do I accept being gay? Yes. Solved! I am really confused at the point that you guys are trying to make.


  • #55
    Conor30
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 522 ✭✭✭Conor30


    Eaglach - I mean this genuinely. What are you hoping that boards.ie members can say to help you any more than they have? Many people, and I'd wager the majority of gay people, can't find a kindred spirit with whom to have a relationship. They're hard to come by and there's no magic pill. I have never been able to so far and I know a fair few other (good-looking and sound) guys who have been single most or all of the time over the space of 15 years. Some gay men go through their entire lives more or less always single. The only thing people can do is put themselves out there in whatever way they can, via joining clubs, via friends, via going out and via dating sites, etc etc...
    There ARE some guys just like you out there. I'd wager that the majority of gay guys are, in fact, "masculine" but you wouldn't see them as much and they don't stand out from the crowd in the way a camp gay guy might. "I know people tell me online that they are not camp and out, but I just find it all hard to belive to be honest." you say, but why don't you give people credit, especially when you haven't even met them yet?? It's not exactly a good start, is it? I sense a certain arrogance on your part, if I must say so. What if everyone thought the same thing about you (that you're probably not actually 'straight-acting')?


  • #56
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    eaglach wrote: »
    Okay, I'm not even going to reply to any comments in particular because I want to get something cleared up.

    Why does everyone keep spouting this bull that I have trouble accepting my sexuality? Seriously, I don't get it. It seems to be this vague comment that is floating around with no real explanation. Is it something people just say? Has it become a new expression that I've somehow missed?

    I don't know how I can accept being gay anymore than I already am. It's pretty black and white. Do I accept being gay? Yes. Solved! I am really confused at the point that you guys are trying to make.

    Look man my point is clear. Get out there, get joining loads of clubs, go out to clubs/bars gay or straight and get yourself a wing man or supportive friends who will help you out. Try your best and do all you can otherwise stop complaining and feeling sorry for yourself.

    It's all on you and it's only you that can make any decision for yourself and since you won't take anyone else's advice on-board, you might as well just get back online and not come back. I don't know what you want. Every possible answer has been given to you.


  • #57
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    Conor30 wrote: »
    Eaglach - I mean this genuinely. What are you hoping that boards.ie members can say to help you any more than they have? Many people, and I'd wager the majority of gay people, can't find a kindred spirit with whom to have a relationship. They're hard to come by and there's no magic pill. I have never been able to so far and I know a fair few other (good-looking and sound) guys who have been single most or all of the time over the space of 15 years. Some gay men go through their entire lives more or less always single. The only thing people can do is put themselves out there in whatever way they can, via joining clubs, via friends, via going out and via dating sites, etc etc...
    There ARE some guys just like you out there. I'd wager that the majority of gay guys are, in fact, "masculine" but you wouldn't see them as much and they don't stand out from the crowd in the way a camp gay guy might. "I know people tell me online that they are not camp and out, but I just find it all hard to belive to be honest." you say, but why don't you give people credit, especially when you haven't even met them yet?? It's not exactly a good start, is it? I sense a certain arrogance on your part, if I must say so. What if everyone thought the same thing about you (that you're probably not actually 'straight-acting')?

    Yeah I noticed that too that's why I made the point that I'd probably be more masculine than him. It annoyed me how he was talking down on so many guys when all they are is assumptions made by a man too fearful to meet men in the flesh and put himself outside of his comfort zone.

    OP- All I hear is you picking guys and how they are not enough like you or are too camp for you. You don't want any guy like that. Well did you ever think about it this way, who says those guys you're after would pick you? You seem to think that you're the guy in control and you will be the one to decide everything. Ever care to wonder maybe they look at you and see things they don't like and they are the ones to back away? So I'd stop that mentality because it takes two people to decide to start something not just you calling the shots on what it takes to pass the test to have you in a relationship. It's arrogant and irritating to listen too.

    I think there is a bit of fear of rejection going on here too, but that's life and on the road to finding the right match you will get put out in the open and it might not work out at all but at least that's progress and you would be doing all you could so in years to come you won't have to be plagued by the "what ifs".
    And I'm only in a position to tell you this because I've been in your place, with your same opinions and views (I think all young guys start off thinking this way) but I grew out of them slowly, like most guys, by actually starting to experience it with an open mind.
    You need to try it with that mentality.
    And I'm not even as experienced, comfortable or open minded as some of the guys I've met that are my own age so no excuses.


  • #58
    eaglach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 225 ✭✭eaglach


    Conor30 wrote: »
    Eaglach - I mean this genuinely. What are you hoping that boards.ie members can say to help you any more than they have? Many people, and I'd wager the majority of gay people, can't find a kindred spirit with whom to have a relationship. They're hard to come by and there's no magic pill. I have never been able to so far and I know a fair few other (good-looking and sound) guys who have been single most or all of the time over the space of 15 years. Some gay men go through their entire lives more or less always single. The only thing people can do is put themselves out there in whatever way they can, via joining clubs, via friends, via going out and via dating sites, etc etc...
    There ARE some guys just like you out there. I'd wager that the majority of gay guys are, in fact, "masculine" but you wouldn't see them as much and they don't stand out from the crowd in the way a camp gay guy might. "I know people tell me online that they are not camp and out, but I just find it all hard to belive to be honest." you say, but why don't you give people credit, especially when you haven't even met them yet?? It's not exactly a good start, is it? I sense a certain arrogance on your part, if I must say so. What if everyone thought the same thing about you (that you're probably not actually 'straight-acting')?

    First time I've ever been called arrogant I must say. I'm far from it. If anything I am quite modest. I guess the internet brings out a different side of me. All I am saying is that from my experience, I have not encountered any guys who I would consider "straight-acting" that is all. I'm sure there are straight acting guys out there, it's just that I haven't encountered them. I've been told by guys that they were not camp and they were, that's why I find it hard to believe. You can't blame me for having a negative outlook in that regard can you?
    1ZRed wrote: »
    Look man my point is clear. Get out there, get joining loads of clubs, go out to clubs/bars gay or straight and get yourself a wing man or supportive friends who will help you out. Try your best and do all you can otherwise stop complaining and feeling sorry for yourself.

    It's all on you and it's only you that can make any decision for yourself and since you won't take anyone else's advice on-board, you might as well just get back online and not come back. I don't know what you want. Every possible answer has been given to you.

    Well all I can do is really what I've been doing up to this point. Joining clubs and socialising. Once again my mates don't do the wing man thing, even for other straight mates.

    It's just difficult, you know? Just sitting here, thinking about it all, I realise what a difficult hand I've been dealt, that we all have been dealt. Some are lucky enough to have an outgoing personality that can adapt to it better than others. By the way, this is not me looking for pity.

    What you're saying makes sense, but any suggestions you have made are very difficult for me to take on board. I am not that guy. I am not that guy who is able to chat to strangers. I am not that guy who doesn't care what others think. I am not that guy who is easy-going and carefree. And after twenty odd years it's very difficult to change something which is essentially my personality.

    I listen to everyones advice here on these forums, and I do try to take it on board, I really do. I may seem very resistant, but that's just me. I think I like to make things difficult.

    Enough waffle. I've wasted enough of everyones time.


  • #59
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    OP, this is just some random comments. I had wanted to respond to various points made, but I think at this stage, I'd end up typing an essay, so this is just responding off the dome to a few things.

    A lot of people have suggested that you may not be full comfortable with your sexuality, and I picked up on that too. I know you refute this, and you are obviously in a better position to know your own thinking on this. At the same time, sometimes its hard to objectively assess your own thinking.

    I think you have accepted the fact that you are gay, yes, but you aren't actually comfortable with that fact. For example, you said something along the lines of you wouldn't be comfortable going on the pull with friends, not wanting to "over step the bounds", and not really talking about "gay stuff" with them. To me, that suggests you feel that they kind of have a right to be put out or not cool with you being gay, or that it would be wrong of you to expect them to fully accept you.

    If you were fully comfortable with being gay, you would that there is no reason why you should feel that you should have to spare your friends from having to acknowledge the fact you are gay, or any reason they should feel disturbed. Moreover, you would know that if they are truly your friends, they should have your back and you should be able to come to them with this sort of thing.

    I went through that myself - between acknowledging I was gay and accepting that fact - I kind of felt that it was my cross to bear alone and that my friends wouldn't or shouldn't have to be subjected to it.

    I realised though that (a) there was nothing to be ashamed about being gay and (b) not only should they "put up" with me being gay in front of them, if they wanted to be my friend, they needed to do more and actually be there for me with this ****. It's hard - as you are finding.

    If your friends are friends, they should help you through they tough bits, not expect you to spare them from having to deal with your "gay problems".

    Similarly, your rigid aversion to camp guys also suggests that you aren't fully comfortable with being gay. Again, i went through that - they reminded me of all the bad things people said about gays and thus reminded that lots of people would say the same things about me just because I was one of those "queers". I used to have all these misconceptions about gay men, gay bars, and the scene and how terrible and camp everything was. i hated going to bars at first but did so out of desparate necessity.

    Eventually though, I realised two things - (1) most gay men are ordinary, mundane people who are neither butch bikers or fairies. They are just normal guys. (2) It was my issue not theirs. It was my own insecurity that turned me off by "camp". I still wouldn't necessarily go for a "camp" guy, purely because I wouldn't have anything in common (you don't need to have everything in common, but you do need some common ground). But a camp moment or two wouldn't put me off an otherwise great guy.

    While I might not date them, I have no problem with camp guys tho. Indeed, I respect them more for it, as I realise that for all the bull**** about "real men," a guy who grows up "camp" and can still be themselves proudly and in spite of all the **** he probably got in school for it has more stones than 10 straight or straight acting guys put together.


    You said that everybody was steering you towards gay bars and clubs - no, not at all. As i said, any of the gay sports or social clubs would be a better place to start for you. Get to know real guys as friends even, it will help you so much. Not just to meet guys, but to socialise and make friends.

    Even from the point of view that you feel you can't talk to your straight mates about being gay, it would surely be good for you to have a few gay friends you can feel comfortable talking to?

    It helped my loads myself - to start hanging around with confident, proud (in the sense of not being ashamed rather than conceited or brash) gay men helped me to be comfortable with just being myself around others and not feel like I should have to hide who I am to make others feel comfortable.

    I'm not telling you that you should learn to be out and open to everybody - I'm just saying you should become comfortable enough to do so if you wanted to. Apart from not wanting to at the minute though, I sense that you just aren't comfortable enough to do it.

    As for choosing between work and social life - I agree, you shouldn't have to choose. But with the limitations you are imposing on yourself (not risking setting foot in a gay bar out of fear of somebody in work seeing you etc), you are stacking the odds to far in favour of work in my book.

    Again, you don't have to go to gay bars - many gay men don't. But you shouldn't let fear be the reason why you don't, it should be because you just don't like them (though you won't find that out unless you go once or twice).

    Finally, you say you "aren't that guy." I wasn't myself, though I am now. A year ago, i had zero confidence, was very introverted and low self esteem. But I got to the point where I realised something had to give, so I pushed myself to take a few first steps - like going to a gay bar, going to a few social events etc. I was completely out of my comfort zone at first, but I perserved and now am a new person. The hardest part was taking the decision not to let other people's opinions of me hold me back - once I did that the rest actually came relatively easily. I knew nothing would chance unless I took a few chances, and with each step i took, the next became a little less daunting.

    Hope some of that helps. And I hope you realise nobody is trying to jump on your back - we're just trying to help.

    PS - wing maning can be as simple of being in the same club with you, and knowing when to **** off when you get talking to somebody. A lot of the time, it's passive. So unless none of your friends ever score in nightclubs, yes, they probably do do it.


  • #60
    Caiseoipe19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 361 ✭✭Caiseoipe19


    Hey, I won't say much cause most of what I think has been said before in bits and pieces.

    I thought about telling you the traits and interests I have that would be considered "masculine" but considering I'm just another person on the internet, you can't believe me. Just off the top of my head though, look at the likes of Dominic Hannigan, Dónal Óg Cusack or Nigel Owens...you couldn't describe them as being camp.
    I can understand where people are coming from when questioning whether or not you are fully comfortable with the fact that you're gay. Maybe they're read you're older posts on this site that show you, at one stage at least, had difficulty accepting it. I think it's one thing to say to yourself that you are and another thing to actually be completely comfortable with it. While I've come out to a couple of people, I can't say that I'm fully accepting of it in my own case. I accept it in my head but don't think I'd be comfortable with it being widely known. All that aside, if you say you are I'll take you're word for it because you're the only one that knows what's going on in your head and we've no right to tell you you are or you aren't. All we can do is give our opinions on how we see it, based on the information you give us.

    Regarding this thing about getting a "wing-man" and it being "a normal thing to do with friends"...that's just stupid. Some people do it, others don't.

    I also understand that there are instances where it is not favourable to let it be known that you're gay, in the workplace. While I think it's bound to be much better for your state of mind if you didn't have to hide it, the fact that some teachers can lose their jobs because they're gay is proof that some workplaces can still be hostile places for gay people. We don't know the dynamics of your workplace, whether or not colleagues' personal lives are shared with each other or if it's a purely professional relationship between you etc. so you probably know better than us how it would affect you.


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  • #61
    brokenice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 161 ✭✭brokenice


    i don't mean this in a disrespectful way...but you need to get laid...some horizontal folk dancing and you'll be a new man...literally...now off to find some hot man with you!


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